₦airaland Forum

grevotech:
The day I studied Galatians 3:1-end and Romans 5 and chapter 6, Mehn My head exploded and I discovered those who live under the law still live under a curse. That was why Gal 3:13 said Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the law... The Law was given for them to know they have sin and can't help themselves... The law is not just 10 but its more than 610... Imagine keeping 610 in other to be righteous then no one would ever make heaven and that means what Jesus did was for nothing... I Love Grace guys. Its power over sim, condemnation and death. With all Critics and everything, I can't stop taking about it... Goshen360 jiggaz drop your Facebook names please.

Don't do Facebook no more bro. ...too much on my table for this social media thing. ...lol

saintgoogle:
Do they die for sins before Jesus came ?

But we will all account for our sins

Yes, you will reap the rewards for what you sow, but your sins. ...past, present and future are forgiven in Christ. Just like someone commit abortion, is she forgiven when they come to Christ? Yes! What if the abortion damaged the womb and can't have babies no more? That's reaping what was sown. 2 different things!

grevotech:
I can imagine how u felt writing this and how you're feeling now

....now with a better understanding. ..still not a license to immoral lifestyle. ...

grevotech:
The first day I encountered it, I could not recover for like 3 weeks. Everyone I come across, I just wanna talk to them about it. Most time when you talk about it, people think you're mad but the truth is everyone always will want to listen to you cause the real you (The Spirit man) knows what's true.

And this great grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be MULTIPLIED UNTO YOU!

babadoo:
Please read Mathew 23:23 for better understanding. Tithing is not abolished in the new testament.

Matthew 23v23? Really? Who were the statement directed to? You think everything written in the bible is supposed to be practiced by Christians? Btw, Matthew to John are the Gospel, not the new testament.

saintgoogle:
Sire Dyu think he is talking about the cross used for crucifixion? He is talking about everyone carrying his own sin


No wonder y'all dogmatic enough to believe that someone 'ould die for your sins

Since you started committing sin, have you died for your own sin?

jiggaz:
that's true.

When the Lord opened my eyes to the message of Grace, I became more Christ like than ever before. Grace message is what was REVEALED and taught by the Apostles and received by the early church. The later churches of today are to live in it.

babadoo:
God bless you all, we were told today in church today that tithe is 10% of our gross pay I.e total amount collected before deduction. Hearing this for the first time. I just wanna hear your views concerning this. Thanks.

Your pastor or whoever said that is either ignorant or just confused. In the new testament, tithe wasn't preached to the believers but giving which is voluntary not compulsory like tithes by/according to the law. Hebrews 7 completely canceled tithes. ...read and digest Hebrews 7 and be bold to spread the gospel of liberation. As christian, you have nothing to do with tithing but giving and you are to give according to your grace

Excellent write up in the opening post but a very misleading title. ...

The Grace revolution has begun and it's ongoing until we meet with our maker....great grace, great power!

Gombs:
Goshen360

this is for you...


1 - Tithes and offerings are widely discussed and God spoke of them in Malachi. If tithes are done away with, what about offerings? You did say in the other thread that God referred to burnt offerings, but I beg to differ.

2 - There are many instructions for sacrifice throughout the Pentateuch, but Leviticus chapters 1-7 is completely dedicated to the 5 Levitical offerings which were the main sacrifices used in the rituals. They describe 5 kinds of sacrifices: The burnt offering, the meal offering, the peace offering, the sin offering, and the trespass offering. Each of the sacrifices were uniquely fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

3 - But Paul talked about some kind of givings (some translations used offerings), he also taught on the conditions for giving, and the benefits...My question is, is giving not same as offerings? Is collections (as you lot call it) the giving Paul was talking about? What of that of Peter and Ananias? Was it collections too?

4 - finally, what is the difference between gifts, collections and offerings, as used in the new testament. Thanks.

put these in mind

2 Corinthian 11:8
New International Version
I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Note this question too
Why did Paul Collect and Delivered an Offering for the Jerusalem Church?
What compelled Paul to raise funds among his gentile converts for the poor in Jerusalem?

thanks

I'm responding according to your paragraphs.

1 - I only mentioned burnt offering as one of the whole offerings that are being offered and meant in Malachi. When God said in Malachi TITHES AND OFFERINGS, He wasn't just telling them something new but what they already knew but they're doing ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE AND LAW. So, understanding what God was saying when he said in Malachi ....In tithes and offerings. ..you have to go back to the law where it was commanded......HOWEVER, REMEMBER, CHRISTIANS ARE NOT REQUIRED BY THE NEW COVENANT TO GO BACK TO THE LAW BECAUSE WE HAVE A BETTER COVENANT IN CHRIST.

2 - I agree with the truth in your 2nd paragraph above and that's what I was referring to that they are no longer required because of the idea they carry....it wasn't meant to mean or interpret as donation in the new testament church.

3. Giving is giving NOT offerings. Biblical offering as something different. The tithe teachers or those who twisted the tithe also tried twisting the meaning of offering. Contributions can come in form of giving but not offerings. There's a purpose for offering and there's purpose for contribution or giving.

If you think contributions are offerings as used by some translations, then you and those translations can argue with HEBREWS 10:5 - 8.

4 - Gifts, collections and offerings as used in the new testament. ...we have to follow the context.

Plus,

2 Corinthian 11:8 doesn't mean Paul, the Apostle put gun in the head of people to collect stuff from them. It's best understood to mean I collected from them to give to those in need among the church of God, not for my personal purpose.....my paraphrase

You have to go to where Paul collected the so called "offerings" and reconcile it with where he delivered it. What was it is when he collected it and what was it when delivered?

SirJohn:
Hey Guys longest time! been away from the religion section, in fact, I've only been showing up as a guest on NL
Lots of important things to do jooor; been having a blast with fatherhood jare

Candour four mentions from your post on the 500k pledge. . . Errmmm!! NO COMMENTS

Gombs, Joagbaje, Goshen360, et al I hail o


peace!

Hey my brother. I'm fine. Don't mind Joe, at least he can't fulfill his own words. When you get the 500k, please do remember your tithes and Apostolic offering o....

Candour:
Yes o my broad. I'm flexing in the grace of God

Just got bored with arguments

Trust you're doing great?

I'm fine o my brother. Everybody get beta things to do than continue all these argument. I'm always peeping on this section to see what's up with folks, just don't contribute much.

Gombs:
You sure?

Bros, bring it on....lol..... . You say I no get your time, na make pepper rest joor.

goodnews201668:
Hebrews 7:9, Says

“And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.”
King James Version (KJV)

This got me thinking if pastors or general overseers should pay tithe?
They always encourage their adherents to pay their tithes promptly, Sometimes it will be topic for a Sunday worship.
Should they pay as well?

That's not what that scripture is addressing. If so, Levi will mean workers and help in the church today that should receive the tithe and pastors will equal to Aaron but the whole new covenant is not based on that like the old covenant system.

Joagbaje:
Everyone pays . Including pastors ,deacons and general overseer. It's always funny why people dwell on tithes . What about offerings.

Which offering sir? To the new covenant church? There's nothing of such. ..You know better but you're making it look like offering is money. ...no! Offering from old testament was something being offered as substitute for something.

When it says tithes AND offerings in malachi, he was saying money AND money, it means tithes and offerings such as sin offering .... etc as sacrifical fot substitute.

Candour:
One of the most involving threads back in the days.

Its a library of some of the best discussions on the subject of tithes.

I have no hesitation to recommend it to any seeker.

Longest time brother. Sure you're living in the great grace of God.

Gombs:
be my guest

How about you be my guest. ... . How far brother, you staying in the Great Grace of God?

taylor12:
Bros, pls help me help a frnd In need. My frnd has gone to the embassy like 8tyms naw for his masters degree to study accounting in Colorado technical University and was denied and still keep pushing hard in same school. His major challenges is this question. Why do u choose Colorado technical University to others since u are going there for your masters when you av many other sch that can offer u the best in accounting? Though many reasons has been given in d past but not convincing enuf. Pls I need a convincing answer to this question as he is preparing to go for one before the month end. Pls ur idea or contribution might go a long way. Thanks

Also, if your friend keep applying back to back without a break, he keeps getting denied. They see him as being desperate!

analice107:
It's okay dear. The Jews pay Tithe and they get really blessed. Am paying Tithe and am really getting blessed. What is the evil in Tithe paying? Christianity is hinged on giving. To make Kingdom wealth, you give.
So, I wll leave it here.

You're not blessed because you paid tithes, you're blessed because of Christ and you being in Christ. The Abrahamic Covenant you claimed or mentioned wasn't because he tithe, he's been blessed before he tithe so tithe don't bless a man giving does. And there's a wide difference between tithing and giving. The early Apostolic church was never taught tithing but giving and they were blessed. I do not tithe but I'm a giver by Grace!

analice107:
They didn't? Maybe you should read your Bible more closely.
Am busy now, but will get back on this.

My bad. ...a typo error. ...comment corrected!

analice107:
It is applicable to us sir. Except you are saying that you have no business being engrafted into the Abrahamic Covenant. You are in or you are out. You don't pick and choose which part of the covenant includes you.
The work of the kingdom is much more tasking today than it even was in those days. What are we to use to take the gospel to the ends of the earth? What are we to use to run orphanages? Etc.
That some pastors are abusing their offices and stealing God's money doesn't nullify the covenant or ordinances of Tithing. Why are Christians struggling everywhere in the world? Why do we resort to getting our hands dirty to make it financially? It's because Satan has deceived us to depart from the ordinances that opens financial doors supernaturally. Is God still the one who gives you power to make wealth? As a christian, if you do not give back to him who gave you the wisdom and ideas to make that wealth, then you are going to suffer alot trying to do it yourself.
Till today as we speak, the Jews don't compromise the covenant of Tithing. Go and compete with them in any way and see.
Satan has really lied to us.
If you don't pay it's okay, but let's not discourage others.

Tell us how the early church was able to spread the gospel message withOUT anyone ever preaching or paying tithes to the Apostolic age....maybe they aren't part of the Abrahamic covenant. ...

OLAADEGBU:
Do Christians sin? Are Christians sinless? What does the Bible say about Christians and sin?

Being a sinner is by nature. Christians are carrying new nature by the resurrected Christ. We are dead to sin nature through the body of Christ and alive to the resurrected Christ. We're not a sinner because we sin, we're sinners because of the Adamic sin nature which was reversed in Christ.

Joshthefirst:
Pay your tithes, and you'll notice the blessings of God even more.

The blessings of God that I know of after the cross and by the Grace of God does not depend on tithe paying. I'm blessed because of the finished work of Christ. ....pay your tithes my foot...

Joshthefirst:
No. That tithing was not an example of a freewill offering. It was specifically called a tithe by Paul in Hebrews.

Here it is.

Hebrews 7:6
But he whose descent is not counted from them received titheS of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Note it was tithes, not even a tithe. Abraham may have given a tithe on more than one occasion.

And as for tithing never mentioned to believers in the new testament, read further down in the same passage to verse 8:

Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.


If he lives, who received tithes from Abraham, what stops him from receiving tithes from us? The Seed of Abraham, Children of the most high God. What stops us from giving our tithes and receiving his blessings also?

See?

It happened before the old covenant, so it wasn't done away with the old covenant. It is an eternal principle in God's kingdom.

Try it and see God's blessings even more in your life brother.

Discussion for another day and time. However, I have tested the grace of God more than rules, regulations and laws, I'm blessed beyond measure without paying any tithes nor attributing my blessing to tithes.

Joshthefirst:
Tithing was before the Law. It's a principle. Like sowing and reaping. God's got your back financially when you tithe. You stop moving around D in circles and you start moving upwards, and forwards

The tithing that was before the law was an example of free will giving before the law was not in effect then. Also, every giving is always a % of one's income, be it 10% or 2% etc. The new testament never mentioned tithes to believers after the cross

Amyleb:
Sir quote author=Goshen360 post=18707028]GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
¹¹ Then, for your sake, I will stop insects from eating your crops. They will not destroy the produce of your land. The vines in your fields will not lose their unripened grapes,” says the Lord of Armies.

Good News Translation (GNT)
¹¹ I will not let insects destroy your crops, and your grapevines will be loaded with grapes.



5. From this translations, devourer still = crops eating insects, not sickness, not demons, not poverty, not devil but insects that eats crops.

Are you still there? If you're there shout hallelujah!!! I will put everything together in the end o. Just follow the context and the exposition. sir,let us be mindful of the way we interpret the word of God, I can see the way you emphasized on the "devourer"thing, why did you neglect the "bring in your tithe part". Remember that there's a standing curse in the bible for anyone who mislead the children of God. God loves you dear

I do not misinterpret the word, the devourer is relatively connected to bring in your tithes. Study to show yourself approved unto God. The new testament never mentioned tithes to believers except giving from your heart.

vooks:
At the very least, let's work with something CONCRETE and not innuendos. Am sure this is not too much to aks.

PS
I'd be mighty glad if I read or heard this with mine own eyes or ears

Okay. This quote will remain a witness when it happens or it doesn't happen. It's well.

vooks:
What guarantee do you have, are you privy to some information Anas09 is not?

Now,
A calling lasts a lifetime in my opinion.if Oyedepo is convinced of the continuity of what he started, he is best placed to appoint his successor. If it were myself, I'd appoint those who have labored with me the closest. If his son has been the closest, then no problem. But I don't have enough information to call his shitt or nonsense.

The apostles simply planted churches without regard to succession

I'm not talking from what Anas09 said. I'm talking from an old thread which I can't remember how long it was. Oyedepo said it, if or when he dies, his son will take over. That tells me something: Oyedepo is running the assembly as a family owned. The church of Christ is not family owned and that's why you never see or read the Apostles handing over to family members.

In terms of labour, where was Oyedepo's son when Abioye and many others started with him? If you're talking about dedicated and loyalty, I see Abioye having that to some degree otherwise, he might have acted like the Ghanian bishop that took over the ghana HQ. In plain and simple terms, the church of Christ is not family owned and these men should stop handing over to their family members. We do not have such tradition in scripture.

vooks:
Thank you Anas09,
Gossip sells BIG time.
One of his messages I listened to on YouTube titled 'fundamentals of church growth' left me convinced that there are proper structures in place over there

My brother, I don't know your stand on this matter but it's not a gossip, I guarantee you. Oyedepo had once said it in the past that when he dies, his son will take over the leadership of the assembly. This is just a copyright of how the American pastors does this same shitt. But, the Apostles doctrine never taught this nonsense.

OrlandoOwoh:
What happens to David Abioye who heads Abuja?

He "might" break out and receive emergency call to start his own business ministry. ..

lilmax:
How do we build a church without money?

The church is already built by Christ WITHOUT money.