₦airaland Forum

Steep:
No it is what you thought I was doing, You thought I was defending Abel, it is bias the so called Ecclesiastical council does not even no that tithing is not part of the orthodox Christian doctrine smh that is to tell you they have ulterior motive.
It is still not late, all they need to do is denounce anybody denigrating the teachings of Apostle paul and affirming it as part of the inerrant scripture and that anybody faulting it is not part of the Christian body even without mentioning names everyone will know who they are. And also the teachings that Christians are gods or they are somehow the miracle workers or should be worshipped should also be declared as heresies other false teachings going round should also be debunked and rejected. Pastor adeboye did the right thing rejecting the teaching that without tithe no heaven although there are other things he also need to reject.
The council should also reject infant baptism, purgatory, Mary as a comediatrix, praying to the dead saints, veneration of images and the likes, etc

Steep, you are not a balanced and mature adult at all! I must be frank with you!

I never once thought you were defending Damina. You were accusing the council of not calling out others who had made an heretic position on Paul. You accused them of bias, and I was trying to clarify things for you.

It is unrighteous judgement for you to insinuate that they're calling out Damina became of tithing. It was Freeze that started the tithing issue a long time ago. Not Damina. They only listed all the things Damina had said which they considered to be heresy.

The issue of Paul is a global issue. Not a Suleiman or Selman issue. I have told you this several times. All my explanations fell on deaf ears. There's a cross section of the Christian populace who believe Paul contradicted Jesus. Selman and Suleiman are just a fraction of those who hold that view. The council is not trying to address the issue. It existed before them. Even the early Christians had issues with Paul for their lack of understanding. Some even said they're for Paul, others said they're for Apollos. It is not a matter that just happened today. The Council is not addressing that matter. All denominations and churches have the right to choose what to believe in the matters of doctrine. No one is an umpire over anybody. But when a person emerges with his own long list of new revelations that are contrary to Scripture, he must be called to order!

The council members themselves are not infallible. There might even be some among them who are not Paulines. How do you want them to come out and condemn anti Paul messages? Why are you taking so long to understand this simple thing?

The council is not a denomination where everyone has the same beliefs. It's a gathering of Christian leaders from various backgrounds. Can't you see? That's why I gave you the London house illustration to let you know that they can only call out people who are against clearly defined Christian doctrines that no one has issue with. For example, Damina says there's no heaven. Have you ever heard any Christian say that before? Every Christian agrees there's an heaven, so they can calm him out on that. But on issues of Paul that has global and ancient disagreements, you can't expect them to be calling out anyone.

I don't know if you now get it. If you don't, just forget it and continue in your erroneous allegations. God's judgement is still there for all of us to face!

The council should reject infant baptism, purgatory, etc because they're the council of umpires who don't believe in infant baptism, etc. So, you think they should declare heresy on whatever you see as heresy because each member of the council is from the same denomination as yourself and they hold the same doctrines as yourself, and because the council is the Lord of the global Church. Isn't it? Please, grow up!

Steep:
you love to argue blindly and you are deeply ignorant yet forming knowledge.
Paul's gospel is the gospel of Jesus committed to him through revelation.
You see how you have even more exposed your ignorance?
You quoted quotes where Paul said follow me, what has this got to do with with the fact that Paul's teaching is that of Jesus? You are arguing against scripture, even that scripture already told you whom Paul follow but however he is talking about the quality of life he lead, 1 cor 10.

I read somewhere you said people call me Pauline christian, yea I follow Paul because he followed Jesus not those fake apostles and prophets that are nothing but liars.
Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.

Everyone who is called has a gospel committed to him through revelation. Not Paul alone.

Paul has to align himself with Christ like every other Believer. He himself said he had to keep under his body. He had to be ensure he wasn't misleading the flock. In fact, he had to first check out with the prominent apostles after he returned from Arabia to ensure he was on the right track.

Paul himself would also stand before the judgment seat of Christ like everyone's of us!

Steep, I didn't say people call you Pauline Christian. I said you should ask why some Christians call you Pauline Christian since you were asking me to show you who doesn't believe in Paul's ministry. I am a follower of Christ and of Paul who pointed me away from himself towards Jesus. I'm telling you to see things objectively and know why those people were firing at Damina.

AntiChristian:
Thank you! I will follow Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam till I die by Allah's grace! All the falsehood peddling won't deter anyone from Islam!

It's usual for a Christian to lie that the Prophet married a 4 year old and all sort of lies without evidence!

While in their Bible worse crimes are committed in the name of their God yet they give excuses claiming to be inspired by one spirit!

Numbers 31:17-18 and 1 Samuel 15:3 is your memory verse!

What's godly about Moses, Samson, Joshua, Saul, David and others who killed many and took booties on Yahweh's command?

How was the Prophet a terrorist? I would have loved to see your holy spirit inspired evidence for that which is worse than what was committed on behalf of Yahweh in the Bible!

You're asking me who prophesied? Ask Google! Search nairaland! Muslims were not the ones claiming the world is about to end whenever any big event emerges in the world!

The kingdom of God is at hand has been parroted for over 2000 years now! And I think you'll die and yet it won't come!

As for your winners, they are no more than any other Christian denomination! They will always have rich people as well as all shades of poor people! They've got many fruitful women and as well many barren women! Also healthy and diseased people will always be everywhere! So there's nothing special about your mentioned winners! How many winners attendees can send their wards to the church school without scholarship?

And finally, you ended with a lie that the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam has no assurance of salvation! This is clear from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) will be the first one to enter Paradise in the full and real sense in the Hereafter.

It was narrated from Anas ibn Maalik (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I will come to the gate of Paradise on the Day of Resurrection and will ask for it to be opened. The keeper will say: ‘Who are you?’ I will say, ‘Muhammad.’ He will say: ‘I was commanded not to open it for anyone before you.’” Narrated by Muslim (193).

And we believe all other Prophets including Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Solomon, David, Elisha, Elijah, John the baptist, Jonah, Job, Noah, Adam, Joseph, Jacob, Isaac, Ishmael, Daniel, Isaiah, etc. will follow him.

Muslims and lying are like 5 & 6. Who doesn't know about Mohammed? Mtcheww.

We're not followers of David, Samson, Joshua, Elijah , Elisha or any prophet of the Bible. Okay? We learn from their mistakes and their good deeds in order to know how to walk with God.

We follow the Lord Jesus only. The Kingdom of God is already within us. But you're blind, you can't see.

Even your prophet said he doesn't know what would be done to him. His double speaking in the Quran is so much that you'll know he was confused. At one time he said you should listen to Christians and Jews, at another time, he said you should kill them. Very confused fellow.

Mohammed that was fingering a 4yr old girl, Aisha and had sex with her at 9 while he was already 54 is a shameless human being.

Christians don't believe in any prophet. We believe in Jesus only. All prophets pointed us away from themselves towards Jesus, the Messiah. There's no one any more after the Messiah. The Messiah is God's ultimate provision for mankind. Anyone who elevates himself above the Messiah is a robber of souls.

Your prophet was a terrorist. You're just a liar who wants to cover up for your lying prophet who even had to order a woman to be killed because she challenged his prophethood. He ordered the woman's legs to be tied to two beasts who tore her apart while alive. Such level of wickedness is what blind fellows call the best of humans.

See how you jumped over most of the things that I said about Mohammed to pick on what you thought you could easily lie about. Mohammed was a robber, a child rapist, murderer and wife snatcher. He snatched the wife of his stepson.

The world will end, the Bible already gave us a timeline and the time is not yet. Only ignorant church goers such as the JWs and canal Christians think the world will end today. The regathering of Israel in 1948 is the foundational event that would set off a chain of other events that'll lead to the end of the world. 1948 happened as prophesied. You cannot deny that!

O boy! the other events also are happening one after the other. But as the scriptures has said, you lots won't see the time click of the world until the end comes upon you unawares. It's happening exactly.

We still have a few more events to the end of the world. Just keep watching. The next events are the complete recovery of Jerusalem. The pulling down of Al -aqsa mosque and the rebuilding of Solomon Temple on its same spot. Just keep watching.

The Scriptures say "The Temple will be rebuilt in troublous times". Israel is in troublous times already. The troublous time itself is a fulfilment of biblical prophecy. Then, after the rebuilding of the temple, other 3 major events will follow before the end will come. The end has an appointed time. It's already settled in the heavens.

You can die a Muslim if you want but I must tell you the truth, there are no 72 virgins anywhere. No Allah anywhere. Mohammed is suffering the fire of judgement where he is. Everyone who has died a Muslim is regretting where they are. Keep lying to yourself if you so choose, but I'll advice you to be wise and reconsider your ways for the salvation of your soul. Open your eyes! Jesus the Messiah is still waiting for you to save your soul. He's the Messiah of your soul. Not mohammed.

Steep:
who said damina should not be called to order it should not be limited to only Abel damina other heretics should also be called out.

Can you show me where I claimed you said Damina should not be called out?

I said you are wrong to call it a bias. Damina has been releasing a volley of heresies for more than a decade. It's even late of them to be calling him out just now.

Captain4Jehovah:
He should have said a "Greek invention"! The Romans built on the Greek cultures; most of the cultures and words gained currency in the Romans. The English word "Jesus" was originally from Greek. The problem of phonology across all tongues is the cause of debate about Jesus name. I have heard some people say it's the name of a Greek god, Zeus but one thing is certain and clear. One, the original meaning of the word is not lost. Two, the word "Jesus" is a sanctified name.
Most importantly, he should read the account about Jesus by Flavius Josephus, an historian and a Jew who was also a commander.
I AM A WITNESS JESUS EXISTED, HE IS EXISTING AND HE WILL EXIST.
Why is it that Christianity is the most persecuted "religion" in the world? Why is it that the name of God,YHWH and Jesus are the ones people speak against most?

Great questions here for a sincere seeker. But the problem here is that most critics are just critics for their own ulterior motives. Even in the face of truth, after all their misinformation have been exposed, they still remain critics. Genuine seekers are scarce. The world hates Jesus because it loves darkness.

banky200:
Dry snails available for sale in lagos

08062773986

How much?

sonmvayina:
Why only Jesus gets a second do over.
Why not all the other men who claimed to be the Messiah in the 1st century CE. If Jesus gets a second coming pass, they too should still get a second coming arrangement.
You see the reason why the Messiah has to do those things the first time?

Lol. Your comments always amuse me.

The scriptures foretold that fake Messiahs would appear and they did but all those fake Messiahs missed significant prophesies which were fulfilled only by Jesus. Please list any Messianic prophesy you know, I'll tell you how Jesus fulfilled it. If it's a future prophesy, I'll give the the timeline for its fulfillment.

Please understand that God is interested in the whole nations of the world, not the Jews alone. God told Abraham, "In thee shall all the nations of the earth be blessed." The blessedness is not in material gains but in reconciliation with God. Satan rules this world, so God picked Abraham and started working through him to execute a plan that would bring mankind back to God. There is nothing special about the Jews. The only privilege they have is in their Patriarch. The Messiah is not for them alone but for the whole world. Though, He'll rule from Jerusalem, His purpose transcends the boundaries of Jewish nationalism. He is a global King.

His first coming was to set the up a system for spiritual reconciliation between God and man. His second coming is to exercise authority over the earth and judge all unrighteousness.

RealityGod:
I agree with you. I also feel he is deliberately using logic couple with sensational topics to make a come back in the ministry that was already fading off.

Hmmm.

You nailed it!

AntiChristian:
I think you are the one prevented from sight by Satan!

Because I didn't believe in a prophet who married a 4 yr old girl, had no endorsement from God, contradicted all scripture, murdered those who rejected his prophethood, ribbed caravans, snatched the wife of his stepson and had no single witness of his fake jibreel. A man was a terrorist and whose followers are the terrorists of this world.

There's nothing godly about Mohammed to made anyone believe his words. It can only be blindness.

That's how you guys were Prophesying when Corona started! All these will pass and you'll start another anthem! Na little time remain!

Which guys prophesied? Are they Gods? Who told you that everyone who prophesies was sent by God?

The miracle of the Corona virus is that many Christians continued to gather in large numbers, for example, Winners Chapel, yet no outbreak was recorded among the people.

You're following a dead man who had no assurance of salvation.

sonmvayina:
It is not a messianic prophesy..

Psalms are meant to be sung during worship..
What about the rest of the Psalm 110, who is it talking about?
You just don't want to learn because the brain washing is really strong...it is very very strong...

There's no Jew who doesn't know that David was referring to his Son, the Messiah in that verse. It's not a prophecy. It's a declaration.

You're the one who is both confused and brainwashed, my friend. In fact, I'll have to teach you a lot if you're open minded. Your ignorance is too thick. What do you want to tell me?

Captain4Jehovah:
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17 : 6....THE NAME....YHWH

And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
John 17 : 26....THE NAME....YHWH

Thanks again for this.

Sonmavyina says Jesus was a Roman invention. According to him, He never existed.

Ken4Christ:
Another false teaching of Dr Abel is that God never asked Noah to build an ark. Can he be real? If he was of the world, I would have said that he must have smoked weed.

And I am shocked he is a key speaker in a recently held Ministers conference.

Steep.

You see yourself?

How is it a bias to call someone like Damina to order?

Just go and read through all his numerous heresies.

Linkzlikz:
Na to just go copy western news come dump for here without being logical... 😂

Ask yourself why the damage was minimal and how did the US got the plan of the IDF prior to the attack? Let's assume they flew with their stealth fighter jets over territories that couldn't detect it as explained by your yeye media... 😂 Oga get your facts right! The US negotiated a safe pass for those fighters jet from those territories you exonerated! If mumu plenty for NL Abeg exclude me mbok!

Mumu, if you were those nations, you will agree to such a negotiation that could be potentially dangerous to your nation? A negotiation that violates your sovereignty? Who do you like this?

Israel had wanted to do more damage, it was USA that negotiated to make it minimal. What friendship has USA with those nations to negotiate the safe passage of enemy warplanes through their territories?

Built2last:
Late yesterday, about 100 fighter jets left Israel in the direction of Iran to retaliate the 200 ballistic missiles Iran rained on Israel earlier in the month. Among these jets’ pilot fighters were 4 women.


In this case, Israel did not fire missiles safely from within its borders, their jets flew straight over hostile neighbours to reach Tehran where they took their time to dismantle the agreed targets given them from home.

The latest assessment (which could still be more) will set Iran back for 2 years, especially at the missiles production facilities. For the radar batteries for air defense, they will have to place new orders from Russia, and be gentle for the next few years till they are delivered.

Why? As we speak, Iran has no eye in the air to protect its vast land. Attacking Israel again means that the Biden-Netanyahu deal not to attack oil and nuclear facilities because of the elections will be off the table.

Fantastic!

Yam Yisrael Chai

עם ישראל חי

MightySparrow:
Thanks brother.

Antichristian will not see this.
Dome of the Rock will still go the same way of these nations.
We see Gaza in ruins as prophesied.

You're welcome brother.

Would Satan let the people see? But by the grace of God , the captives of the night shall be delivered. They'll read but Satan will never allow them see. May God have mercy on the people.

Even after reading all these. Someone was still saying YHWH is Marduk, and that ifa is superior to the Bible. Spiritual blindness is real. Ifa that does not have authority over anybody. It honours witches and demons which are under our feet as believers.

Yeah, Dome of the Rock will be pulled down. It's time is ticking fast. The pulling down of that mosque will mark the end of the era that the Bible refers to as "the time of the gentiles." Then, the next events would be the rebuilding of the third temple, the emergence of the antichrist, the war of Armageddon and the close of the age.

EmekaA125:
It's always easy to say move on from a mouth that lost nothing.

Who instigated you into the loss? Why start something you could not finish? Even if Gowon had reneged on an agreement, why didn't you guys use diplomacy instead of force? Is it right for anyone to blame another for the outcome of an event that was started by himself?

sonmvayina:
Psalms are not prophecies. They are meant to be recited during services.
The Psalm you quoted was written by David and given to the choir master..
So from the choir master point of view when he is reading it ...it means The Lord (Lord most high) said to my master (King David )......
Do you understand now..

Read zachariah from the beginning you will get the real gist...not take text out of context..

Lol. Who says Psalms are prophecies?

Your illustration further proves you're not really balanced with the knowledge of scripture. Right from your talk about ifa and marduck, up to the ancestors were enslaved nonesense, I already knew that you're not to be taken serious.

According to you, the choir master received a song from David and started singing it as his own song, and therefore must say "The Lord said to my master king David". Was he a reporter? If that's how it is, the Psalm immediately becomes the Psalm of the choir master, and no longer a Psalm of David. Nobody receives a song from a writer and then renders it as a reported speech. And also, why should this particular verse be different from all other verses in the book of Psalm where David's speeches were given directly and not reported? See? That's because you want to deny the truth of that particular verse and remove the message it bears. The Messiah isn't a mere man. The choirmaster didn't report David's speech as song. He wrote exactly the song David sent to him word for word. Don't lie to yourself if you love your soul. The Messiah isn't completely human.

There's nothing in the Book of Zechariah that I've not read. I have read that book more than 100 times. You don't need to tell me to go read from the beginning. Just tell me why the Israelites will look on Him whom they pierced.

AntiChristian:
Can you show us with Bible verse which one was available when Christ was alive?

Everything about you guys is analogue. We are a spiritual people. Stop meddling in issues you don't understand.

Steep:
after all the beating about the Bush. Paul didn't align his message to christ, his message was christ message.
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

What does that change? It seems you just love to stir up arguments.

Paul said:

"..In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." Romans 2:16.

1 Corinthians 11:1:

"BE ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ."

Steep:
You think you are matured?

See how you shot down your own argument.

According to the letter you posted, it defines an heresy.

Heresy is, "a belief or opinion contrary to orthodox Christian doctrine and any belief, teaching or practice that explicitly undermines the gospel." Heresies are "beliefs or teachings that deviate from established or orthodox doctrine, often considered contrary to the accepted teachings of a religion or faith."
The definition of heresy has nothing to do majority agreement but contradiction against the historical teaching of the church from inception.

The orthodoxy teaching about Paul and his teachings are that Paul is truly an apostle and one of the foundation of Christianity and his teachings are inerrant making contrary opinion heresy meaning joshua Selman and suleiman are heretics.

You might think you are educated and mature but it is only an irony, even your definition of heresy goes against what is defined in the letter. Good day.

Meanwhile, the scriptures never make Paul the standard for judging heresy. Jesus is the standard. Any contrary opinion to Christ is heresy. Not Paul.

While Paul aligns his messages with Christ's, some others think he doesn't, and that's where the problem is.

Steep:
Do you even sit for a minute to understand what you wrote? According to you can or pfn cannot judge what is right or wrong but here Peter is judging those who twist scriptures as doing it for their own damantion. If rejection of Pauline epistles was just a matter of personal opinion why would Peter denounce such persons?

My God! I thought I was talking to a mature Christian. I didn't know I have to break things down for you to understand. Would you actually place Peter alongside any of the PFN or Christian leaders we have today? Can't you see that if Peter were in the world today, whatever he says about Christianity will be final? When I said no one is an umpire over anyone's faith, was I not talking about today? If Peter, Paul, James, John or any of the apostles were in the world today, whatever they say would be final! Would you argue against Peter the same way you would argue against Adeboye or Billy Graham? They are the foundation upon which the church is actually built. We can trust their leadership! Today, nobody trusts anybody's leadership completely. Anyone can err. Hence, no one can be an umpire over the faith of others. Simple logic now. You can only correct what is generally accepted as wrong. Not sectional matters of faith that divide the Church.

There in your family, if you don't know that your father once lived in London, but there are unconfirmed reports of it, and meanwhile your father is unavailable to give clarity on the matter, would you call any member of your family who makes claims of your father's London residency a liar? That would be foolish. None of you are sure, though you'll all have your opinions depending on the level of information you have individually. Each of you will claim to be correct while the others are wrong. Yet, It will be wrong for anyone of you to call anyone a liar for supporting or not supporting the matter of your father's London residency. However, if someone comes up and says hey, your father never built a house when you all generally know that your father built a house, then you'll call that person a liar because that knowledge is explicit and generally known without any controversy. If someone comes up and says anything contrary to that, you can call him a liar or an heretic as in the case of Damina. But on the matter of the London house, you cannot call anyone a liar or an heretic. Everyone would hold on to his individual opinion as in the case of Suleiman and Selman. Except you want to deliberately bring up a fight of course. However if an external person who was an early associate of your father comes out to clarify the London issue, you would have to succumb to whatever he says as in the case of Peter. Should I be explaining this way before you get my point?

Again why would Paul defend his apostleship if it's was just a personal opinion? He even said anyone who preached a different gospel from the ones heard the other apostles preached are cursed and you say it is just a matter of personal opinion?

You should go and ask Paul why he had to defend his apodtolshipship. Personal opinion is personal interpretation! Paul says the same things as other apostles but some people thinks he contradicts! Why should you be twisting words? Some people think Paul contradicted Christ and other apostles. This has been since the days of Paul himself. How many times would I have to explain this to you?

And the whole church do not generally accept Paul's epistles as inspired scriptures? What credible non heretic church reject the teachings of Paul?


what new testament church is debating it today name just one? Why is it hard for you?


just one question show me one non heretic church that rejects Paul's teachings? Just one

Are Suleiman and Selman not part of the new testament church? Are they the only ones? Are there not other churches and individuals who have the same views as Suleiman? Are you a new Christian who knows nothing about the Christendom? Go and educate yourself and learn why some fellow Christians choose to call you a Pauline Christian!

Steep:
can you show me which of the church has ever had issues with Paul's epistle just one?

Jesus Christ! Can't you see that even Peter had to address the issue of Paul and even commented that some of the things he teaches are hard to understand, and that as a result, some people wrest it to the detriment of their souls as they do the other scriptures? Paul himself at different occasions has had the need to defend his apostleship. In most of his epistles, there are chapters wholly dedicated to defending his apostleship. Paul's matters are not of today!

You just admitted that can or pfn do not have the authority over people's faith and at the same time acting as authority over Abel damina, does this not show hypocrisy?
Heresy is not a matter of individual opinion, else you just fall into the error of subjectivity which you are grappling with.

In what way did they act as authority over Abel Damina's faith? They asked him to stop misleading people on clear matters of faith! Simple! Matters that are generally believed and accepted by all believers.

Historically and from the scriptures the new testament church do not have tithing as a doctrine and it has never being a debate.

It is currently a debate. The new testament church is discussing the issue right now all over the world with different opinions coming to the surface.

Your attempt at placing tithing on same footing with denying scripture is ridiculous.

Is tithing not scripture? Has anyone ever learnt about tithing in a university? Is it not from the Bible that we all get to know about tithing?

You claim pfn and can are no authority over individual faith and yet they could act as authority over abel's faith

Show me how they have acted as authority over Damina's faith. If Damina is not teaching others what is considered entirely anti-scripture by all Christians worldwide, would anyone have to call him out? He should keep his heresies to himself and not corrupt the body with his leaven of falsehood.

sonmvayina:
Keep deceiving yourself..

You think if there was really power in the name of Jesus, the slave masters will share it with their slaves ?
So they will use it against them..

If you like don't use your tongue to count your teeth .

Learn history and stop behaving like a toddler..

Is this how ignorant you are? Who exactly are the slave masters you're taking about? You mean the slave traders who didn't even know Jesus?

It's not a matter of if there's power in the name of Jesus. The matter has gone beyond they because people like us have tasted the power and are still tasting. One thing is that the witches whom you fear and your succubus wife whom you dread, all bow before the name of Jesus. If you don't believe, I can demonstrate it for you lives. The power of Jesus is best demonstrated. There are demonstrations of Christ's power everywhere. Demons keep telling you it is a lie. You won't go on a deliberate research yourself to rid yourself of ignorance? Your ignorance is very costly. You're a slave of demons and you don't even know.

sonmvayina:
My friend, there is no second coming arrangements anywhere in the Tanakh.
The Messiah will do those things, that is how they will know he is the Messiah.
The Messiah is not a deity to be worship, he is an ordinary man like you and me...
From the line of David through Solomon his son. The two contradictory genealogy in Mathew and Luke can't produce a Messiah....
The Messiah will come at the end of day to usher in an era of world peace.
Like I told you, there is only one creator of the universe..it is just the name that is different.... because we have so many languages on earth. So they all have the name of God in their languages...
I don't know how else to put it in your head. You have to loose the brainwashing..learn. Unlearn and relearn...

Lol. We don't worship the same God okay. You're still too brainwashed to see that? How else can I break it down for you?

The two genealogies in Mathew and Luke are not contradictory. Mathew focuses on the lineage of Joseph while Luke focuses on the lineage of Mary. Both came from David.

If the Messiah is not a deity, why did David prophesy of him "The LORD said to my Lord, “Sit in the place of honor at my right hand until I humble your enemies." Psalm 110:10.

If the Messiah has no second coming, how do you explain Zechariah 12:10? If indeed Israel would accept the Messiah as soon as he appears, then what would make them "look upon Him while they pierced"?

Steep:
smh I don't think you are even seeing your backfliping. According to the standard you set to judge Abel, sulieman and Selman are guilty of heresy.
By the way which of the PFN, CAN and ecumenical council ever argues against the inerrancy of Pauline epistles?

Can you name just one.
You have confessed that they are not united against Selman and sulieman as they are against Abel because of bias.
Plus any body disputing against the inerrancy of Paul's epistle is also calling apostle Peter a liar who endorsed his epistles as scripture, and hence brings the whole Christian faith into disrepute, Paul clearly stated that what he preached where the very revelation of Jesus that it was not of man but of Jesus. Such a person also blaspheme the holy spirit who confirms Paul's ministry with signs and wonders. He lso makes all the books of Paul questionable and also Peter because according to him Peter is lying and also makes the book of Acts a lie because it records the Jesus called Paul to build the church and endorses Paul's ministry, it also destroys the book of Luke because it was Luke that wrote acts, the destruction goes on and on, and at the end of the day render the whole church today a lie hence these so called apostles and prophets would have nothing to stand on. isn't ironic you are making such serious issue a mere personal opinion?

Do you even know that one of the evidence of christ resurrection is the ministry of Paul? I guess you don't know this? Paul conversion is one of the proof that christ rose.

I don't think it's profitable to keep dragging this with you since you don't seem to understand anything I've been saying. Perhaps you're not even reading. Otherwise you'll not be asking the questions you're asking. I hate fruitless arguments honestly.

Is PFN or CAN a person? Are they not all individual churches and groups with different levels of doctrinal understanding? Is Abel not a member of PFN? Are Suleiman and Selman not members too? While no one may hold the same views about Christ as Abel, it is not only Selman or Sulaiman that hold the opinion they've voiced against Paul's doctrines. I have explained things to you as simply as I could but it seems you're not even reading. You don't even seem to see that I'm totally at home with all of Paul's doctrines. Asking me if I know if Paul is one of Christ's evidence of resurrection is irrelevant because I'm not against Paul and his doctrine as a person.

I'll give you another illustration and if you still don't get it, there's no way I'll be able to help any further.

You need to understand that there's no one who is an umpire over other people's faith. Nobody is a father of all Christians to be judging whose doctrine is right or wrong. There are many different opinions regarding many parts of Scripture. This Paul issue is just one. Selman and Suleiman are not alone in this. There are several members of CAN and PFN who hold the same views as theirs. They are all Christians who love the Lord. Their views are based on their understanding. You're not their father. You're not God. You cannot be the one to call them heretics. If you think you have Scriptures to support your views of Paul, they also have Scriptures supporting their views as well. To them you are an heretic too.

Pauline and none Pauline ministers are in CAN, PFN and other Christian bodies. Which group should be calling which group an heretic? Tell me now. There are Pauline and none Pauline leaders among the leadership itself. Everyone believes he is right while the other party is wrong. So, which leaders should come and call the other leaders and those who hold the same views as theirs as heretics? If you're among PFN leadership, would you come and announce Selman or Sulaiman as heretics just because they don't hold your views? Then, you're immature and lack wisdom if you do that. That's even if you have the sole power to make that lone announcement. It will only breed chaos and debates.

But on clear matters of doctrine where Abel is seen to be a deliberate heretic, he should be called to order! Everyone knows he's erring. That's not up for debates. If you have issues with those who are against Paul, go debate them!

Before you can start saying those who hold views against Paul are heretics, then you can start calling post-tribulationists heretics too if you are a pre-tribulationist and vice versa. Where's the wisdom in that? Can't you see?

Where did I say they're united against Abel and not against Suleiman and Selman because of bias? Should you lie or you actually really don't get the point?

How would they unite against Suleiman and Selman when Suleiman and Selman are just a fraction of the group within the Christian bodies that hold the same views. Who's the umpire over all Christians that would start calling those none Paulines heretics? Christians that hold the same views as Selman and Suleiman are all over the world. It's not a Suleiman and Selman thing! What Scriptures do you want to quote to them that they don't know. They too have scriptures they've made ready for you. That's not the type of situation you start attacking to be heresy. The same way they cannot attack tithing or none tithing as heresy. It's that simple. Tithing issue is based on your level of scriptural understanding. The same for the issues of Paul's doctrines.

Abel Damina's doctrines are purely his own. He brought strange and new doctrines that he has fabricated in his own head. Hence, he needs to be called to order!

sonmvayina:
Well God gave ifa to the yoruba people.
Just as how he gave every tribe their heritage . No one is above the other. They are all ways to bring us together and for us to live in peace..
The European that came to enslave your ancestors brought Christianity to them and they passed it on to you. And you are going to pass the lie to your children too..if you don't learn the truth and end the madness..

You're very confused my friend. Very very confused.

So, God gave ifa and idols to every tribe on earth, then, He told the Jews that He hates idols? He even told them not to have anything to do with heathen nations that worshipped those idols. Even called Abraham out of an idol worshipping nation to reveal Himself unto Abraham as the only true God. My dear, you're very, very confused.

Another of your confusion is that you said the whites enslaved your ancestors and gave them Christianity. That's a high level of confusion because the whites who colonized Africa were different from those who spread the gospel.

Among those who colonized Africa were Atheists, Idol worshippers, Cultists, Muslims, Christians who only came to plunder Africa. Those who brought Christianity didn't belong to this group.

Those who brought Christianity included both whites and blacks who were missionaries. They built hospitals, schools, orphanages, etc and never colonized anyone. They were all Christians.

Steep:
@ bolded not deliberate heresies are still heresies regardless and dangerous, isn't the reason why bodies such as can and this body to come out and debunk such heresies and not keep mute? We are back at the start again. If they I had said I believe so and so but I will study the scripture more, it would be a different issue, but to make a blanket statement and stand on it and even saying that Jesus or some angel or Saint appear to them to reveal the heresy ad the truth, should be more alarming.


It is not a matter of weakness. I am not standing brief for Abel. But that same standard should be applied to every other heretic simple.

Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Smiling.

I'm not holding brief for anyone too. I'm just being objective. All heresies are dangerous but sometimes they can be subjective. There are some of the things you yourself believe right now that someone else sees you as an heretic because of them. Lol. The truth is that even the people who have called out Damina might not be united regarding Sulaiman and Selman's position on Paul. This is because that is a very slippery position. There are many here on Nairaland who think the same way of Paul. They're everywhere. No one is perfect in knowledge. Those who believe Paul was wrong also see you as an heretic for thinking Paul is right. Someone once called me an agent of the devil for standing on Paul's words and defending it. This situation happened because the matters in question are not clearly stated in scripture. You'll need to dig deep and have a certain level of understanding to see what Paul is saying. So, the people in PFN, CAN and this Ecumenical council might not even agree among themselves regarding the Pauline epistles. Hence, it's difficult to call out Sulaiman and Selman on such a slippery matter of doctrine. Hope you're getting my point? Meanwhile, Abel's heresies are very glaring even to the baby Christian. Everyone can agree that they're heresies. Hence, they can call out Abel.

sonmvayina:
God promised a Messiah from the line of David. What this means is that he would have a father and mother who are both Jewish.

Are you talking about what God meant or what God said?

He is coming to usher in an era of world peace as Isaiah said " They will hammer their sword into ploughshares....and learn of war no more.

Yes, that's at the second coming of the Messiah.

That has not happened and we are still waiting. God already gave us the solution to the problem of sin, and it does not involve human sacrifice..see 2nd chronicles 7:14.

Can you tell me the solution God gave you to the problem of sin? Is it the same solution that makes you see YHWH as Marduk and ifa as been superior to the Bible?

sonmvayina:
I am not Yoruba

I just follow the laws of the creator of heaven and earth as contained in the Torah..
It does not include human sacrifice of any kind. It is Christians who worships a man that was executed on a tree which God considers an abomination...

I don't gather anywhere on Sunday to see women shake their bombom..

That is not what worship entails. It is about obedience to his laws and statues..

Nothing more.

But you've been making a case for ifa as the word of God that is superior to the Bible. This U turn is interesting.

So, you believe in the Torah? And you did not know that the Scriptures promised a Messiah whose soul would be made an offering for sins? A man who has no human father?

sonmvayina:
God gave ifa to the yorubas people just as how he gave the Torah to the Jewish people...
I only said it was above the bible because it is indigenous to us African. And that is what we would have been talking about if the Europeans did not come to Africa to enslve our ancestors

Who told you God gave ifa to the Yoruba people? If God gave ifa to the Yoruba people, why did He give something else to the Jews? And something else to almost every ethnic group?

Which Europeans enslave your ancestors, and how did that enslavement concern Christianity?

Steep:
@Bold you have being beating round the bush all these while and again contradicted yourself, according to your own qualification for heresy, Paul has being clearly, very clearly declared by the scriptures as an apostle of Jesus christ and his epistles as scripture for the church and he has accepted by the church from the days of the apostles till date as an apostle of Jesus christ and his epistles scriptures for the church, yet some men came to oppose it yet you are saying it is a matter of mere opinion? Are you not contradicting yourself?

Isn't the double standard glaring? You are screaming that Abel is a heretic but refusing to call out other heretics.

Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Smiling. Let me explain.

No one has ever said that Paul is not an apostle. That would have been heretic. No one has ever said that his epistles are not scripture. That would be heretic too. Have you ever listened to these people before? Their argument is not on the personality of Paul or his apostleship. They think that Paul contradicted the Lord Jesus in some of his statements which literally looks so but at a more careful study, you'll find he didn't. The allegations regarding some of Paul's doctrines are all opinionated and based on individual understanding. Not deliberate heresies. For example, Paul emphasises faith as the basis for salvation, meanwhile it looks as though the Lord Jesus emphasizes works. It takes a more careful study to discover that both Christ and Paul are on the same page. Can you call them heretics for their lack of understanding. No. Even the scriptures says we should strengthen those that are weak. You'll see clearly here that, it's a matter of understanding.

Now, if someone comes and says that Christ is not coming back, that's dangerous because Christianity stands on the foundation of Christ's second coming which is our blessed hope. Every Christian knows that Christ is coming because it is very clear in scripture. Christ and His disciples declared it without mincing words. Anyone, such as Abel who says Christ is not coming is an heretic.

While Christ's second coming is clear. The events surrounding His coming as it relates to the tribulation are not very clear. While someone who says Christ is not coming is an heretic, someone who says Christ will come before the tribulation is not. Ironically, someone who says Christ is coming after the tribulation is also not considered heretic. Hope you're getting my point?

1. Someone who says Christ is not coming is an heretic because the Scriptures are very clear that Christ is coming again.

2. Someone who says Christ will come pre-tribulation is not an heretic because he talks according to the level of his understanding regarding the topic which is not very explicit.

3. Someone who says Christ will come post-tribulation is also not an heretic for the same reasons as that of point two above.

Deliberate contradictions of clear Scriptures is heretic. This is where Abel erred. Infact if he had preached that there are 7 heavens, he would not be considered heretic because the Scriptures clearly stated that there are heavens but no one knows exactly how many. I personally believe there are 3 heavens because Paul wrote that he knew of a man who ascended up to the third heaven and heard the voices of God. I believe by my understanding that there can be no heaven above the third heaven where God dwells, hence, there are 3 heavens. Someone else can have a different opinion, I can't call him an heretic neither can he call me so.

I believe my explanation is clear.