₦airaland Forum

PAGAN 9JA:
da f***?! explain yourself!

also why would i live other peoples dreams and lives? also who are you to decide what other peoples dreams and lives are

i dont have to explain nothing you know what i meant... lets take this to the beggining what does culture mean to you.. you know what nevermind we are derailling..if you want to talk about culture open another thread and we will discuss.. we are veering away from the topic. peace

PAGAN 9JA:
if i ever not bothered about my culture, i would not have made all those nearly 6000 posts on Nairaland. because you are discrediting my works by making such stupid statements.

i tell you what you are livig in the past. you are living your forefathers way of life and not your "way of life".. you are not here to live in the past or other peoples dreams and way of life..

btw i made no such discrediting you are.. i only made an observation brother

Kay 17: And more to think about

well share your thoughts. your the op

@okeyxyz what does sacrifice mean to you.

^^^ what exactly do yo want me to explain.. do you honestly think you are bothered about "your" culture?.. and why are you mad..

PAGAN 9JA:
ok so you want to play the "human" card, eh? then why are those ffellows not bothered about our culture, our religions , our JUJU, our Ifa divination, our Spirituality, our Leaders, etc. why are we(I MEAN "YOU" as "humans of Africa" always doing the A$$-licking

you meant you are doing the as.s licking. and doing the ass licking to who if i may ask?... btw why should anyone be bothered about your culture when you are not bothered about it your self..

okeyxyz: Mehn!!! This is beautiful thoughts and writing. You show good spiritual awareness.

But I have just one criticism of your thoughts above and it is major. You started off with a fundamental error in trying to distinguish between gift(or love) and sacrifice, And when the fundamentals are wrong, it compromises the whole structure.

There is no difference between a gift(love) and sacrifice. It is only a gift to the reciever, but the person who is giving is making a sacrifice. Gifts are simply tokens of love(sacrifices), and the christian scripture highlights this in many teachings.

Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends(John 15:13)

i understand your point god brother but there is a reason why i chose the word gift instead of sacrifice.. you have to understand that sacrifices are not always borne out of love..especially the ones based on conditions..

also read @ doublex two precious post to see why i started it off like i did

PAGAN 9JA:
what he sought to accomplish means nothing to us NIgerians. it is only relevant to those israelis, etc.

why do you say that..do you represent all nigerians..are nigerians not humans..were the Israelites likewise not humans? Was jesus not human?.. must the truth come from your "kinsmen" before you listen . Just because his message has been "bastardize " and misinterpreted for obvious reasons does not take anything away from what he accomplished or sought to teach.

greatgenius: Some of you are not reasoning and thinking outside the box.. you are not your brain.. thoughts Originate from the mind and not the brain.. the brain is a receiver. A transformer.. To put it mildly its a radio. In fact the whole body is a RADIO

Behavioral changes sometimes happen during accidents or disruptions to the brain becuase like a radio any sort of damage to it affects its ability to receive a frequency signal.. nothing more nothing less

it is an obvious fallacy to think for instance that songs originate from a radio.. something we all did as kids..but unfortunateky some of you are still holding on to that fallacy about the brain

^^^^ what exactly was nonsense in what he said ..or you just felt like saying those words...

^^^^ well you wrote a nice piece so I figured I 'd collaborate and continue from where you left off..

doubleDx: Even as a Christian, the idea that God actually sacrificed his 'only begotten Son for our sins' doesn't make any sense!

A sacrifice is an offering that cannot be retrieved and to say God sacrificed Christ to death for our sins then resurrected him and took him to heaven is plain silly.

It makes more sense to say Jesus came as a gift from God to enlighten humans about the 'power in loving each'. Jesus' teachings were all based on love and tolerance to achieve peace, greatness and perfection on Earth.

I don't see it as a sacrifice but a gift to enlighten us, because with love comes peace, joy and perfection. The stupid humans back then didn't understand his teachings which explains why they killed him.

exactly it wasn't more of a sacrifice but more like a gift.. He allowed himself to be crucified in order that he might stand as man’s "eternal salvation". He was in essence swying Look at what I can do. Look at what is true. And know that these things, and more, shall you also do. For have I not said, ye are gods? Yet you do not believe. If you cannot, then, believe in yourself, believe in me.... If you cannot believe that ye are gods as well and can do all these things that I do then atleast believe in me..Follow me and I will show you the way he said ...

Such was the Christ compassion that he created a way to so impact the world So that all might come to heaven (Self realization) ...If in no other way, then through him. For he defeated misery, and death. And so might you and I..us..

The grandest teaching of the Christ was not that we shall have everlasting life, because that we do have.....not that you shall have brotherhood in God, but that we do....not that you shall have whatever you request, because that we do. But all that is required is to KNOW this ..which he sought to tell us..

He sought to tell us, to remind us, that we can do and have everything we want. For as gods in flesh We are the creator of our realities and life can show up no other way for you than that way in which you think it will. You think it into being. This is the first step in creation. God the Father is thought. Our thought is the parent which gives birth to all things.. And that when the father and the son ( your thoughts and words ) and actions or deeds( spirit ) are in alignment and speaks with one force there is nothing that we cannot do.. this is what he sought to teach..

you say God has given you free will, yet these same people claim and teaches that if you do not obey him, He will send you to hell. so much so that he had to sacrifice his only begotten son and tht if you fail to believe in him then you will surely go to "hell".. What kind of free will is that? Does this not make a mockery of God. are you all not making a mockery and laughing stock out of a supposedly unconditional loving God?. do some of you reason at all?

^^^^ a perfect example of misunderstanding and deception of religion at work...

the problem is people have misunderstood what jesus sought to accomplish..

of course the sacrifice was important but God did not sacrifice anyone. we are all sons and daughters of God.. jesus dying on the cross and the manner in which it happened was his own choosing . it was a selfless act done to show you the "way".

truthislight: you have not answered my question.

Are gorillas made in the image of God?

If yes how, if no why?

Am waiting.

yes gorrilas are made in the "image of God"..have you not heard of cultures that revere and worship animals? we are all different extenions or degrees of reflections of the one creator...everythng is a reflection of God.. form is an illusion. matter is an illusion. truth always lies in the core or essence and not form.

truthislight: lol.

Dude, you are funny.

All i know the bible says is that we are "made in the image of God"

well that is correct..and i have already explained what it really means.. it is the essence and nature of God not the form.. the problem , borne of out ignorance of course is that by image you think FORM..if you believe the absolute and real form of God is a male figure then you have a long way to go.. let me re-MIND you that not long ago in humankind evolution when the males were considered not much of worth in society and the women ruled every aspect of society it was said that "we were made in the image of the Goddess"..it went from "Goddess" to "God" when the males took "control" of societal affairs and changed the "scriptures" to a male dominating God..There is a lot you do not know my fried.

if i am God and i cannot "change the colour of my hair from black to white"

again this is an ignorant statement..are babies less of a human because they cannot feed and clothe themselves?

i only know it was satan that said "Adam will be like God"

so you remember that statement but not " ye are Gods"

Some of you are not reasoning and thinking outside the box.. you are not your brain.. thoughts Originate from the mind and not the brain.. the brain is a receiver. A transformer.. To put it mildly its a radio. In fact the whole body is a radio.

Behavioral changes sometimes happen during accidents or disruptions to the brain becuase like a radio any sort of damage to it affects its ability to receive a frequency signal.. nothing more nothing less

.

just fear of the unknown... coupled with the fact that most have been told you will go to hell when you pass.. yet know one really goes to hell except if you choose.

frosbel: Wow, how do you chaps read the bible ? backwards or forwards

By the underlined statement, you have just displayed some ignorance on this very important issue.

Nowhere in scripture is MAN declared to be immortal , man is a mere mortal . If he had eaten the tree of life, which God mercifully prevented him from doing then he would have become immortal and lived forever, albeit in a state of misery.

However , God prevented this from happening and instead consigned the whole human race to death for the sake of resurrection into immortality for those who live or lived lives pleasing unto him , as the case may be.

Finally, MAN only became a living Soul after the breath of GOD came into him. This breath was not an entity but life from the Spirit of GOD , which animated MAN into existence.

When MAN dies, he returns to dust and remains there till the day of resurrection.

Read the bible, the immortal soul is the stuff of Pagan Greek mythology.

you are calling someone ignorant but you are the ignorant one here.. why do you people read the bible at face value.
was man body lifeless or not before the animation? Was the body talking and making choices before the animation? what and who animated the body? is a living man both body and spirit or JUST BODY..

you guys keep reapeating man only became a living soul, man only became a living soul yet you dont seem to understand what you say.. when you put on a jacket are you, your jacket? are you the one making decisions or a vehicle when you sit in a lifeless vehicle and you start operating it?. do you people think at all

TroGunn: Man is either alive or dead.

every knows and accepts that.. the issue is that you have failed to understand the process.. you are saying 1+1=2 agreed..but you disagree on the reverse that 2=1+1.. what im asserting is that, DEATH OR DYING is a term or word to describe the transition from living to another state denoted as death... when you die, you dont cease to exist, you have only gone back to your original state..was the body not dust before it became part of man? so then how is the body transitioning back to its original form, being dust, transmits to ceasing to exist. it is illogical to say the spirit doesn't cease to exist but the body does...

Gen 2:7 And the Lord God made man from the dust of the earth,breathing into him the breath of life: and man became a living soul.
From Genesis verse above, living man (living soul) = body + spirit (breath of life)

you keep quoting this verse but i dont really think you understand it because it has nothing to do with the point i have been trying to make, which is that you dont really DIE or ceases to exist... but lets go on another tangent...

now if living man = body and spirit of God.. and we know that the spirit of God is that which animates the mould/body/lifeless form, then do you agree or see that man is GOD MADE FLESH. that we are God made man..

Job 34:14-15 - "If God were to take back his spirit, and withdraw his breath, all life would cease, and humanity would turn again to dust".
From Job's verse above, dead man/dead human (dead soul) = {body + spirit (breath of life)}- spirit (breath of life) = body = dust.

this verse is telling you reality. which is that God spirit is that whiich animates you... you are half body and half spirit....you are not just body. don't forget that. you are God in flesh.

maybe the bolded is what is confusing you guys.. replace that with body.. because humanity or man is not only body, but body+ spirit. living man does not return to dust, the body does. humanity body returns to dust and the spirit to God..

This also tallies with Psalm 104:29 "When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust".

If that doesn't make it clear, I don't know what would.

trust me everything is clear on my end. i am trying to make sure you understand what you are reading..
you seem to think and believe that you are ONLY YOUR BODY( all thanks to religion)..

^^^^ you dancing brother...you saying a living man is both body and spirit.. yet a dead man is only body? so my question is, is a man their body or body +spirit? i want to establish something before we move on.

you just admitted that people [/b]are made up of souls a combination of [b]dust and spirit of God.. are you now changing your stance and equating people to only dust/body? Are people their body or body and spirit?..or you dont read what you write..

TroGunn: When people die, they decay to lifeless, unintelligent, powerless dust.

Eccl 9:5-6,10 -- "For the living know that they will die,but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun". "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom"

ijawkid: Hmmmm........and all this is found in the scriptures or some philosophical books??......

what do you think

TroGunn: See how Satan's lie about immortal soul is making you dance around.

satan has not told me any lie because i know him not.. he doesnt exist.. The soul being immortal is not a lie.

So dust is now alive, abi?

first of what does being alive mean to you.. also what is a being mean to you..

Death means absence of life.

absence of what life? because i can tell you absence of the life as you know it does not mean you ceases to exist..you need to broaden your perspective

What ceases to exist is a living being- like Adam.

again ceasing to "live" is not the same as ceasing to exist.. you cannot not exist. you only change form.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with that verse! Without breath of God or spirit, the man or soul dies and turn to dust. And bros, dust is not alive.

lol again the body turning into dust does not mean it ceases to exist. it has only changed to its original form..

TroGunn: So the bible that says the soul dies is "illogical", right? And what part of dying meaning "cease to be alive" or dead is hard to grasp? The soul is man, when man or soul dies, there's no more "breath of life" or spirit. That spirit is what goes back to the source of life, God who gave it in the 1st place. At this point, as Job pointed out, the spirit or breath of God is no longer there to keep the body alive. The lifeless body remains - the man or soul is dead.

yes from the point of view that you all are looking at it yes it is illogical... becuase ultimately there is really nothing like something ceasing to exist. it only only changes form.. A soul "dying" doesnt cease to exist it only changes form..Also if you want to get technical i can make a case that, the dust where the body of a man came from is as immortal as the spirit of God... Technically a soul does not "die" it only changes form.. when the living soul "dies" the part of it that is spirit goes to where it came from and the other part which is dust goes to where it came from..

14 If God were to take back his spirit
and withdraw his breath,
15 all life would cease,
and humanity would turn again to dust.

if dying means ceasing to exist then ultimately there is really nothing like "dying"..because when someting "dies" it basically just changes form or back to its original form. how does the body/man returning to the dust denotes as dying when the dust is where they came from in the first place? was the dust/body not existing as dust in the first place? how is something returning to its orignial state be a cause for alarm. should it not be celebrated. when one returns home from a journey should they not be welcomed and celebrated? i am asking all this cus i want you guys to really think about the fact that there is nothing wrong in "dying"..

there is nothing wrong with that verse. it is telling you the reality of things.

frosbel: Job 34:14-15
New Living Translation (NLT)
14 If God were to take back his spirit
and withdraw his breath,
15 all life would cease,
and humanity would turn again to dust.


This beautiful scripture nicely summarizes the truth about the soul and spirit.

The only thing that keeps MAN alive is the breath of God through the power of his spirit.

If God withdraws this breath, MAN returns to dust, period !!

lol some of you stay dancing and play on words...i am not really going to get into the why soul and spirit is really the same thing but a play on words, since you guys seems to be strugging with this soul dies concept..

but if using your terms and going by logic then it is wrong to say the "soul" dies.. if the soul is a combination of man/body/mould and the spirit of God and we all agree that the spirit is immortal. then it is wrong and illogical to say the " soul" dies.. if one part of the soul is immortal then it is illogical to say it "dies".. it simple changes form or disintegrate back to its original form which was spirit and body..

truthislight: you guys are deceiving yourselves.

Or better yet, you guys have allowed the oldest cunned artist "the original serpent" to play tricks on your minds.

lol very ironic..if anything you need to take back yoir thinking processes from the "original serpernt" and stop taking the word of “experts” and “reliable sources"(bible etc) as the truth.." A rational approach to life is based on sound reasoning, not emotional reactions or conditioned responses,(sound reasoning which you have failed to display through out our interactions except display conditioned responses)..
you need to reason things out on your own way in order to know what is true or not. This is the principle of living consciously. Awareness makes the difference between pawn or master. And i am afraid most of you are being used as pawns..

you cant read the bible for instance and take everything in as TRUTH and then tell me you are thinking. Are you kidding me. You must create your own system or be enslaved by another man's system. Anyone who does not do their own thinking will have their lives thought out for them by others willing to do the thinking. The bosses, the rulers and those in positions of control and power are the ones who are willing to do the thinking and create systems to direct the lives of the unthinking masses. you need to step out of the manipulations brother.

i have said this before on another thread and i will repeat here an adage that goes " Fools will be fools as certain as fate. men of wisdom use fools as tools. for that and only that is the use of fools".. Food for thought..

put your fear of "hell" and eternal damnation aside for a minute and really read the bible with sound reasoning. the bible will become nothing else but another book full of distortions albeit some truth that you have failed to see as a result of your fear..

pastormustwacc: Even the bible records more than 1 person that came back from the dead,
But some of the things Jesus performed don break records already, no need to argue am.

ok I'm glad you know there have been more than one person that came back from the dead...
And what records are you talking about?