₦airaland Forum

The begining of Tithes
The custom  of giving tithes reaches back into unknown antiquity. It is mentioned in Genesis 14  without anything to indicate that it was something newly instituted. Just as Abraham  is there represented as offering tithes of the spoils of the enemy to the royal priest Melchisedech so in Genesis 28 Jacob  is recorded as giving a tithe of all his possessions  to the Lord

Under the Mosaic Law the payment of tithes was made . The Hebrews  are commanded to offer to God  the tenth part of the produce of the fields, of the fruits of the trees, and the firstborn  of oxen and of sheep (Leviticus 27:30 Deuteronomy 14:22 . In Deuteronomy  there is a mention not only of an annual tithe, but also of a full tithe to be paid once every three years.

While it was to God  Himself that the tithes had to be paid, yet we read (Numbers 18:21 ) that He transfers them to His sacred  ministers : "I have given to the sons of Levi  all the tithes of Israel  for a possession, for the ministry wherewith they serve me in the tabernacle of the covenant ." In paying the tithe, the Hebrews  divided the annual harvest into ten parts, one of which was given to the Levites after the first-fruits had been subtracted. This was partitioned by them among the priests . The remainder of the harvest was then divided into ten new parts, and a second tithe was carried by the head of the household to the sanctuary to serve as a sacred feast for his family  and the Levites 
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14741b.htm

Once more you are off the point. You can not be making a point from Paul's view. Letter of Paul to Hebrews were the hand work of Marthins, (as a result of lost scrolls.) It is just a summary of letters written by Paul to the CHRISTIAN Hebrews.

Make your point to all Lovers of Naira land not to a particular person since you are wiser than all of us.
The issue is TITHE not gifts

Abraham went to war on behalf of Sodom , to rescue his nephew, Lot.
He gave 10% of these spoils of war to Melchizedek,
he allowed Sodom to keep 90%,
NOTHING for him
Now can you explain how this once a life event?

You are now required as a christian to give 10% of your annual salaries (not the spoils of war, but your money, your hard earned salaries), not once, but year after year after year, not to Melchizedek, but to PASTOR&PASTOR(MRS) who claim to be ministers of Jesus Christ? Like using spoon to feed the SEA

Abraham never tithed on his own personal property or livestock.
Jacob wouldn’t tithe until God blessed him first.
Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and there are no Levite priests today.
Only food products from the land were tithable.
Money was never a titheable commodity.
Christian converts were never asked to tithe anything to the Church.
Tithing in the Church first appears centuries after completion of the Bible. [/color][color=#990000]Amos 4:4, "Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your TITHES after three years."

This is a popular saying "Tithing was a form of worship to God, and since we still worship God, we must still tithe."
Please I want to know if the advocates of tithe can allow bunt offering in their church Since burnt offerings were a form of worshiping God, and we still worship God, Can we still offer burnt offerings to God?

The letter of paul to Herews was Tayo D's refrence. I want him to know that paul was acting as a Lawyer there. we could start another thread on letters of St paul and his style.

In the beginning tithe was supplied by the spontaneous offerings of the faithful. In the course of time, however, as the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy.
Many Christians  support their churches and pastors with monetary contributions of one sort or another. Frequently these monetary contributions are called tithes whether or not they actually represent ten-percent of anything. However, as tithing was an ingrained Jewish custom by the time of Jesus  no specific command to tithe per se is found in the New Testament

The Tithe War in Ireland (1831-36) refers to a series of periodic skirmishes and violent incidents connected to resistance to the obligation of Irish Catholics to pay tithes for the upkeep of the Protestant Anglican Clergy.

The British Government was alarmed by several aspects of this massacre: by the fact that the order to fire was given by a Clergyman, by the pittance involved in relation to the bloodshed, and by the fact that the people had withstood several volleys and at least one charge by the troops without breaking. Finding the task of collection and the associated outrages an increasing strain, one official lamenting that “it cost a shilling to collect tuppence”, collections were suspended and a Tithes Commutation Act was introduced which reduced the amount payable by about a quarter and made the remainder payable to landlords who would in turn, pass payment onto the Clergy. This partial relief and elimination of the offensive manner of collection ended the uprising, but Catholics were still forced to pay for the upkeep of the Protestant Church of Ireland until its final disestablishment in 1869.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe_War"

Today the new churches depend on tithe  for their income and ready to do anything that will stop them.

Jesus  came from JUDEA and he is a product of words. He never as for any tithe because he is not from abraham. No sacrifice of blood was demanded by him. He was simply mudered and paul try to justify why he was killed. Paul built up septuagint picking his points from old testament.

Do you know that people fought war because of tithe?

You sound as if you are in philosophy class which an average Nigerian are not intrested in.To Tithe or Not to Tithe? that is the basic question.

HEBREWS CHAPTER 7


5     And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

6     But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7     And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

8     And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

9     And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10     For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11     ¶ If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12     For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13     For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14     For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15     And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16     Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17     For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18     For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Jesus was simply obeying Mosaic law as an obedient Jew.
The only other occurrence of "tithe" in the New Testament is found in Hebrews, chapter 7. Hebrews is an attempt to convince Jewish Christians that the entire sanctuary system, especially its priesthood, had been replaced by the Melchizedek-type high priesthood of Jesus Christ and the individual priesthood of every believer.

Chapter 7 uses the ineffectiveness of tithing to illustrate that the laws governing the priesthood (including tithing) were "changed" and "abolished" (7:5, 12, 18).

TayoD:
please let's establish if the tithe is a present day reality or not.

Matthew 23:23
Away with you, you pettifogging Pharisee lawyers!
You give to God a tenth (tithe) of herbs, like mint, dill, and cumin, but the important duties of the Law -- judgement, mercy, honesty -- you have neglected.
Yet these you ought to have performed, without neglecting the others.

and its parallel Luke 11:42
Woe to you, Pharisees! You tithe mint and rue and every edible herb but disregard justice and the love of God. These were rather the things one should practice, without neglecting the others.

The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of conscience, rather than any direct command by Jesus Christ.

Those who serve the altar should live by the altar (1 Cor 9:13)

Tithe generally defined as "the tenth part of the increase arising from the profits of land and stock, allotted to the clergy for their support or devoted to religious or charitable uses". A more radical definition is "the tenth part of all fruits and profits justly acquired, owed to God in recognition of his supreme dominion over man, and to be paid to the ministers of the church". This never sound like a gift to me.

The tithe is not a present day reality, but cheap way of milking those who are seeking the help of the lord. In canon law it serves as tax used in building those church building of yester- years. Tithe was met to be paid by Israelites NOT for an American or a Nigerian.
Christ Jesus never made mention of it.

Think first the kingdom of the lord, not the practice of religious bodies, what you do not know ask or leave it outand follow rules for Holy Living
Colossians 3
1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Matthew 18:2-6

2 He called a little child and had him stand among them.

3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.

6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Regards

Today we have another life where we can debate and say things from diffrent angle. Catholic met all these tradition

Jeremiah 44:17
We will certainly do everything we said we would: We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and will pour out drink offerings to her just as we and our fathers, our kings and our officials did in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. At that time we had plenty of food and were well off and suffered no harm.

Jeremiah 44:18
But ever since we stopped burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have had nothing and have been perishing by sword and famine."

Jeremiah 44:19 The women added, "When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes like her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?"
Jeremiah 44:25 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You and your wives have shown by your actions what you promised when you said, 'We will certainly carry out the vows we made to burn incense and pour out drink offerings to the Queen of Heaven.' "Go ahead then, do what you promised! Keep your vows!

Statue Worship?
People who do not know better sometimes say that Catholics worship statues. Not only is this untrue, it is even untrue that Catholics honor statues. After all, a statue is nothing but a carved block of marble or a chunk of plaster, and no one gives honor to marble yet unquarried or to plaster still in the mixing bowl.

The fact that someone kneels before a statue to pray does not mean that he is praying to the statue, just as the fact that someone kneels with a Bible in his hands to pray does not mean that he is worshiping the Bible. Statues or paintings or other artistic devices are used to recall to the mind the person or thing depicted. Just as it is easier to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it is easier to recall the lives of the saints by looking at representations of them.

The use of statues and icons for liturgical purposes (as opposed to idols) also had a place in the Old Testament. In Exodus 25:18–20, God commanded: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be."

In Numbers 21:8–9, he told Moses: "‘Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.’ So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live." This shows the actual ceremonial use of a statue (looking to it) in order to receive a blessing from God (healing from snakebite).
In John 3:14, Jesus tells us that he himself is what the bronze serpent represented, so it was a symbolic representation of Jesus.
There was no problem with this statue—God had commanded it to be made—so long as people did not worship it. When they did, the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4). This clearly shows the difference between the proper religious use of statues and idolatry.

When the time came to build the Temple in Jerusalem, God inspired David’s plans for it, which included "his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing from the hand of the Lord concerning it, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19).

In obedience to this divinely inspired plan, Solomon built two gigantic, golden statues of cherubim: "In the most holy place he made two cherubim of wood and overlaid them with gold. The wings of the cherubim together extended twenty cubits: one wing of the one, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and its other wing, of five cubits, touched the wing of the other cherub; and of this cherub, one wing, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and the other wing, also of five cubits, was joined to the wing of the first cherub. The wings of these cherubim extended twenty cubits; the cherubim stood on their feet, facing the nave. And he made the veil of blue and purple and crimson fabrics and fine linen, and worked cherubim on it" (2 Chr. 3:10–14).
http://www.catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp

Mary freely and actively cooperated in a unique way with God’s plan of salvation

(Luke 1:38; Gal. 4:4).

Like any mother, she was never separated from the suffering of her Son (Luke 2:35),

and Scripture promises that those who share in the sufferings of Christ will share in his glory (Rom. 8:17).

Since she suffered a unique interior martyrdom, it is appropriate that Jesus would honor her with a unique glory.

All Christians believe that one day we will all be raised in a glorious form and then caught up and rendered immaculate to be with Jesus forever (1 Thess. 4:17; Rev. 21:27).

As the first person to say "yes" to the good news of Jesus (Luke 1:38),

Mary is in a sense the prototypical Christian, and received early the blessings we will all one day be given.


The Bible Only? the Immaculate Conception and Assumption are not explicit in Scripture,

we get into an entirely separate matter,

the question of sola scriptura, or the Protestant "Bible only" theory.
the position of the Catholic Church is true, and the notion of sola scriptura is false. There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture.

The Catholic Church was commissioned by Christ to teach all nations and to teach them infallibly—guided, as he promised, by the Holy Spirit until the end of the world (John 14:26, 16:13). The mere fact that the Church teaches that something is definitely true is a guarantee that it is true (cf. Matt. 28:18-20, Luke 10:16, 1 Tim. 3:15).

Mary was named the queen of heaven or who is the queen of Heaven.
look at this
Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger.

Please note that catholic do not stand on the protestants canonized BIBLE, The whole bible came from catholic and Matins Luther picked only 66 books which he said in enough for their teaching. Check Gospel of John 21 vr 25. You will not find any catholic practices in the protestant BIBLE.

I built up this topic for your information, From Page one 11th of June 2005 through some inovation we got to this point, you are welcome, take your time and search my record on this topic.

TayoD, I think Your style is Good, I am not a Guy I am a man old enough to be your senior. Did your Bible teach you to insult somebody? By their fruit we shall know them. I hope you will learn to control your self. Regards

I think some are too drunk in chosen words. If they like let them empty their pockets and Give them to "man of GOD" as tithe.

You look so myopic and worried by Dogma, if you are to talk at all read all my postings on this topic. Try to have manners

The BIBLE was just the record of Catholic traditions, How can records be superior to the tradition. All protestants are just protesting.


LUKE 1

26     ¶ And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27     To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28     And the angel came in unto her, and said,
]
Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29     And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30     And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31     And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32     He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33     And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34     Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35     And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36     And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37     For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38     And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
39     ¶ And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40     And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Just the voice mary was enough to make a baby move then.


Honor to mary.

John 2
Jesus Changes Water to Wine
1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there,

2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding.

3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."

4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."

5 His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[a]

7 Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.

ify2love2:
@Hnd-holder. Thanks for the encouragement.

What i know for sure is that i will get to the top HND or not. One with God is majority. God will see all HND's Holders through.

By the way why do you use Hnd-holder as your ID. Just curious.

It is because, The first woman I wanted to marry left me, when she told her parent that I am an HND Holder. They denied our relationship.

Please do not regret your HND. If not because I had HND I would have been jobless. Your HND will take you to places once you are not looking at BSc holders as GOD. Things will change for HND holder, you will see.

@TayoD, There is nothing like the book of Hebrew. What is in the scriptures is the Letter of Paul to the Hebrews written to a group of christians who faced with inreasing opposition,they were in danger of abadoning the christian faith. the wrier encourages them with this letter.

The Bible Says In this you are turning the bible to God. This remain a book that contains scriptures. It can not be GOD. Some people need to undestand septuagint readings

This is the biblica account of TITHE in OLD testament.

[b]Leviticus 27:30 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.


Leviticus 27:31 If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it.

Leviticus 27:32 The entire tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod—will be holy to the LORD.

Numbers 18:21"I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting.

Numbers 18:24 Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: 'They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.' "

Numbers 18:26 "Speak to the Levites and say to them: 'When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD's offering.

Numbers 18:28 In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the LORD's portion to Aaron the priest.

Deuteronomy 12:6 there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks.

Deuteronomy 12:11 Then to the place the LORD your God will choose as a dwelling for his Name—there you are to bring everything I command you: your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, and all the choice possessions you have vowed to the LORD.

Deuteronomy 12:17 You must not eat in your own towns the tithe of your grain and new wine and oil, or the firstborn of your herds and flocks, or whatever you have vowed to give, or your freewill offerings or special gifts.

Deuteronomy 14:22 [ Tithes ] Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.

Deuteronomy 14:23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.

Deuteronomy 14:24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away),

Deuteronomy 14:25then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose.

Deuteronomy 14:28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns,

Deuteronomy 26:1[ Firstfruits and Tithes ] When you have entered the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance and have taken possession of it and settled in it,

Deuteronomy 26:12 When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.

2 Chronicles 31:5 As soon as the order went out, the Israelites generously gave the firstfruits of their grain, new wine, oil and honey and all that the fields produced. They brought a great amount, a tithe of everything.

2 Chronicles 31:6 The men of Israel and Judah who lived in the towns of Judah also brought a tithe of their herds and flocks and a tithe of the holy things dedicated to the LORD their God, and they piled them in heaps.

2 Chronicles 31:12 Then they faithfully brought in the contributions, tithes and dedicated gifts. Conaniah, a Levite, was in charge of these things, and his brother Shimei was next in rank.

Nehemiah 10:37 "Moreover, we will bring to the storerooms of the house of our God, to the priests, the first of our ground meal, of our grain offerings, of the fruit of all our trees and of our new wine and oil. And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work.

Nehemiah 10:38 A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury.

Nehemiah 12:44 At that time men were appointed to be in charge of the storerooms for the contributions, firstfruits and tithes. From the fields around the towns they were to bring into the storerooms the portions required by the Law for the priests and the Levites, for Judah was pleased with the ministering priests and Levites.

Nehemiah 13:5 and he had provided him with a large room formerly used to store the grain offerings and incense and temple articles, and also the tithes of grain, new wine and oil prescribed for the Levites, singers and gatekeepers, as well as the contributions for the priests.

Nehemiah 13:12 All Judah brought the tithes of grain, new wine and oil into the storerooms.
A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury.

Nehemiah 12:44
At that time men were appointed to be in charge of the storerooms for the contributions, firstfruits and tithes. From the fields around the towns they were to bring into the storerooms the portions required by the Law for the priests and the Levites, for Judah was pleased with the ministering priests and Levites.

Amos 4:4 "Go to Bethel and sin; go to Gilgal and sin yet more. Bring your sacrifices every morning, your tithes every three years.

Malachi 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.[/b]

Close those Good Polytechnic down, Nigeria do not want them .Okay

If you find HND good, why do you waste your time looking for BSc? at least another 4 years before you obtain it ,that is waste of time! we want to know. If not for anything you should have being work for that 3-4 years. This is what we are saying . They should close down the polytechnic thing then.

Should Hnd Holders Go To Hell? Mr Oyedemi So you still think HND can not Do what the Bsc does

oyedemi:
hnd holder shouid try to acquire additional certificate to bost their credential,and praying to God to grant us favour.

Tell me what additional qualification do you want HND holders to have?

Thank you, After spending 2 years for ND , God knows how man survive the one year Break another 2years for the HND before the NYSC with no placement. Going for further studies with What. NYSC allowance savings Abbi, I hope you remember that only the POOR normally wait to do HND in the polytechnic, Rich man son must have find their ways to university with over 350,000 Naira. How will poor HND holder pay for other studies. Age may even catch up.  Further studies? How?

Then is like saying that  Hnd Holders Should Go To Hell