₦airaland Forum

handsomeclouds:
As as Christian we are meant to live our lives according to the teachings and injunctions of Jesus Christ.
In fact our lives is meant to be modelled after Jesus.
Here goes the facts;
Jesus came on to the earth and left just like that!
He did not have a girlfriend, he didn't date any lady, in fact he never got married.
So please why should we?
I believe marrying isn't Christlike.
I am sure anyone who doesn't follow the life of Jesus christ wil surely go to hell.
Anyone who refuses to be Christlike will definitely rot in hell.
Here goes the question;
Is refusing to be Christlike and ending up having a wife land us in hellfire fire?

Receive sense.

Here was what Jesus said about marriage-

Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

If Jesus didnt want us to marry he wouldnt have made this statement rather he would ve used the opportunity to condemn marriage. Peter was one of his disciple and was married. Did Jesus condemn him? NO.

BayLord01:
Atheism is more than just the knowledge that gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature
There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.”
Atheism have doubt the existence of God and none of the so call religion leaders exploiting the masses in the name of God have ever come out to tell us how his/her God existed in the first place.

Shut up and stop being senseless. If atheism is what you have defined here why are you people flocking religious section even more than the religious folks?
Again the argument about the existence of God has been trashed here and you people did not make any sense in trying to prove that there is no God.
Carry your stupidity to another section. This place is not for atheists.
Learn from Mark Zukerberg, he is an atheist but doesn't make noise about it. Only the useless ones in Nairaland are killing themselves over religious people. Shame.

Yeah times are hard but on one hand its helping Nigerians to stop wasteful spending and extravagant life style. If you dont have any serious place to go then park your car and stop causing traffic jam with your useless waka waka. Save the money for fuel and use it to attend to other important family needs or help the poor.

MimiKnows:
Dear Mimi,

I am a 42 year old man. I grew up in a staunch Catholic family and observed all the catholic ceremony. I got married ten years ago to a catholic woman and together we decided we would be catholic only in name. So our Sundays are spent at home with our children. The issue is that my mother-in-law recently started living with us and has started nagging us to go to church. At first I obliged her, woke up around 6am to make the long drive to her pentecostal church and endure the screaming and shouting. However I told her today that I am not going to church and neither is my wife or our two children. All hell broke loose she screamed and cried that I have led her daughter to hell, that I am preventing her from pursuing God and that we must go to church or I divorce her daughter. My wife who cannot stand up to her mother said she will follow her mum to reduce trouble. There is my problem- my wife also detests church and I feel betrayed that she would keep going to keep her mother happy instead of herself and our marriage happy. I said she can go if she wants but my children will not go. What should I do?

-Church Mother Drama

Read more at:

http://www.herald.ng/wife-hate-church/

you are a 42 year old liar. Stop spreading lies to seek uneccessary attention.aa

raphieMontella:
he made a lifeline...and then made an eternal pit??
And yet presents himself as a perfect man??
If he created man imperfect...why then blame man??
Why is he lying?

God does not blame man generally rather he blames unrepentant sinners like you who hae refused to make use of the lifeline he provided. When millions upon millions of human beings like you are embracing the life line God provided, why cant you embrace it? And if you refuse to embrace it then you have no excuse and God has every reason to blame you. Abeg park one side. You no get any excuse as long as millions upon millions of fellow imperfect humans like you are embracing God's life line over the years.

raphieMontella:
okay...no freewill...
So its already mapped out since before creation..nd still condemns people to an eternal hell...

How do you reason sef? I told you no ABSOLUTE freedom anywhere. You can choose what to do but you cant choose not to face the consequences of your choice except you repent and make a turn around. It is general about life. For example, you can choose to jump in from of a moving train and choose not to be crossed by it. You cant choose to jump into fire and choose not to be burn by it.

raphieMontella:
Ur statement begs this question...
If jesus was divine/God...he would know the dire importance of his crucifixion...why would he then make this callous statement?

Its because Jesus knew the importance of his death that he didnt insist that God should remove this cup from him rather he yielded to God's will inspite of the agony. He was in the flesh and felt agony like one in the flesh yet HE DID NOT INSIST because he knew the importance of his death.

raphieMontella:
simple question...was Jesus God or not?

Are you this daft? You mean after seeing where Jesus admitted that he is the son of God you are still asking me this question. This obviouslly shows the low brain that generated your OP.
Even after reading where Jesus told his doscoples that it was his father that revealed that info to them you are still asking. sorry for you bro

TheSixthSense:
We have freewill. We always have a choice. But it is never God's will for man to sin or do evil. Paul was free to walk away after the encounter, Mary was also free to reject being the mother of Jesus. Jonah ran away. You can hear God's voice and still do choose to disobey whatever you like. God never possesses anyone against their freewill unlike the demonic. He only fills his faithful with His Spirit so they can have more guidance in choosing to do what is pleasing to Him. That's why the bible emphasises on obedience and faith. Because we obey consciously. There are two kinds of will of God. You should see this article. http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/how-to-know-the-will-of-god. It makes it clearer. It is never the will of God for man to sin and do evil. God's sovereign will always comes to pass.

Yea you are right. My point is that we dont have absolute freedom. One can reject to do God's will but can't equally escape the consequences of the rejection so u see most people doing God's will against their own will because they are being compelled by the consequences of not doing it. Jonas case is a good example of this.
In all, God is right. He owns us all and have every right to achieve his purpose of creating us.

raphieMontella:
so he just came to deceive humans and blame humans,,and condemn his predestined killers to hell although this had already planned out before creating earth

Nope. God is a creator who knew he was going to create an imperfect being who would be influenced by either good or bad based on their ability to make choices. He simply made provisions for restoration for when one does bad. All you need to do is make use of the lifeline he provided. He is the creator and has the right to create what he wants as he wants it. Were you expecting God to create us perfect beings? Yes. But he rather wanted to create imperfect beings who will work towards perfection through his grace and power.God created us to be beings who will grow, beings who will learn, beings who will discover things. Thats a concept and he has right to have a concept as a creator In line with his concept, our imperfect nature placed us in a position to learn, experience and understand God's mercy. his goodness, his love, his wrath, his wonders, his power to build and to destroy etc. You and i are created to learn and we will continue to learn either in a hard way or in a soft way till we die. God runs the universe and theres nothing you can do about it than to yell, wail, cry, abuse, mock to your detriment while the wise ones keep learning and being fulfilled and thankful to God for the opportunity given us to learn.

raphieMontella:
so if all is god's plan...then freewill is killed...
It also means everything,,including man made disasters etc...also it means he predestined all...
Whats also the essence of prayer??

It is you and some christians that invented freewill. There is no absolute freedom anywhere. Even in the bible we are not offered absolute freedom. The choice is restricted between good and evil, which is the narrow way and the broad way. There is the will of God and the will of man in our individual affairs. In some issues of life the will of God must prevail while in some issues, your will or the will of God prevails depending on the one you gave room for. This still confirms that there is no absolute freedom so dump the freewill thing abeg.
Again prayer is part of the means we pursue either the will of God or our own will. Remember at some point before the crucifixion of Jesus he prayed to his father and said- "if it were possible, let this cup pass over me". Then he followed it up with- "not my will but thine oh Lord". You can see that in this prayer, Jesus said what he wanted(his will) based on the agony he was passing through but quickly surrendered to God's will. Prayer has many needs. That you dont see the needs does not mean that others dont see it pls,

raphieMontella:
john 10:30
..two humans make up parents..
One alone can still be called a parent right?
So jesus was still god..or
when he was earth he was not god?

Stop making unnecessary argument. See Matthew 16-

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

CAPSLOCKED:

FIRST OF ALL I'M SORRY FOR THIS LITTLE ENGAGEMENT WE HAVE, I APOLOGIZE, I SHOULDN'T HAVE ENGAGED YOU.

I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY THE COURSE I STUDIED IN SCHOOL, BUT I WASN'T BARRED FROM ASKING QUESTIONS, OR ARGUING WITH MY LECTURERS ON THE THINGS THAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE.
YOU DON'T ARGUE WITH YOUR PREACHERS AND YOU'RE COMPLETELY NOT QUALIFIED TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING YOUR DOCTRINES..

AND HERE YOU GO COMPARING YOUR RELIGION AND MY SCHOOLING... WHERE'S YOUR SANITY?

I'm sorry you are a fool to make such generalization. In the church i worship you question everything. Some other churches do that too. I question everything. The ones we cant arrive at the answer in the immediate we keep digging deep. We never stop digging the word of God and meditating over it. Stop fooling yourself. IF we knew all about the bible then there wouldnt be need for us to be attending bible study from year to year, sunday school lessons every sunday, reading christian literatures to understand various perspectives and trying to see how it relates to realities of life.

JMAN05:
So is there a possibility for me to choose good. It is just a possibility, not a certainty. Meanwhile, their had been others in heaven who were created with such freewill but who had remained faithful for long.


.

`
So how did satan choose evil in such a perfect place as heaven. Where did he see that evil to choose? In the case of Adam and Eve it was entirely different. They were tempted by some creature with something

JMAN05:
Of course, God knows that there is a possibility that they would choose evil, but He also knows that there is a greater possibility that they will chose good. We are saying the same thing. What am only adding is that God evidently didn't peer into their future to know which choice will end up making. That would not be important since in fact He made them with a choice.



I did not say that God does not have the ability to foreknow, am only saying that He does not use this ability ALWAYS. This is total omniscience, which states that God by default knows all in eternity past and future and even present.

Just like in the case of Jeremiah whom God told that he knew what he would become even from the womb. Yes, God can use his ability of foreknowledge when He CHOSES, not ALWAYS. .

How can you claim that the bolded is not true about God when isaiah 46 says this-

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

JMAN05:
I never knew that the expression "I love Jacob, Esau I hated" was made before Esau's birth. Can u help me with a reference?



Pls reference to the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. After then, I will reply.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

JMAN05:
Pls reference to the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. After then, I will reply.

Revelations 13;8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

CAPSLOCKED:

YEAH, RIGHT.. NO SINGLE CHRISTIAN UNDERSTANDS THE BIBLE FULLY. THEY'LL CLAIM THEY DON'T NEED TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING BECAUSE GOD'S WAYS ARE NOT MAN'S... AND HE CAN'T BE FULLY UNDERSTOOD... SO ALL THEY GOT TO DO IS BELIEVE BLINDLY AND NOT ASK QUESTIONS.

SO MR, BELIEVING AND WORSHIPPING SOMETHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND TRANSLATES TO BELIEVING AND WORSHIPPING YOURSELF??

Ordinary course that you studied in the university(if at all you did) do you understand everything about it? Then its God that you will understand everything about him. Even scientist hasnt unraveled everything about science, then it is God who created all things that you will understand everything about him. See how you reason?

JMAN05:
You just have not said anything. He created them with freewill and He knows they are going to use the freewill, is that a foreknowledge? He already created them so, there is nothing in the future to know about it. They are already made that way.

That man will chose to rebel is because of the freewill they have. That's there choice. But during creation, God didn't peer to know which choice they are going to make. Besides, no one had evidently done things against His direction before.

Young man you are just trying to play with the word- freewill. You mean God created them with freewill to choose from nothing or what? If i created you with freewill to choose between evil and good, i dont need a soothsayer to tell me that there is the possibility of you choosing evil. If you say God didnt see any possibility of man doing evil then it means there is no freewill. How free is the so called freewill? There is no absolute freedom anywhere.

The bible records that God said- Jacob have i loved and Esau have i hated. This happened when they were not yet born and have not started making use of your so called freewill, God declared his hatred for Esau yet you want to paint a picture for me that God has no power to look into someone's future to know what he will choose.

Its also written in the bible that God hardened the heart of Pharoah. Does this support your freewill message?

Jesus was referred in the bible as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Which means the redemption plan for man was put into place when God was forming the world. Forget that your freewill stuff bro. You dont need to defend your church teaching here. By the way the condition given to man in the bible does not depict absolute freedom and does not qualify to be called freewill. If there was absolute freedom, the choice would have been beyond two( the narrow way and the broad way). I know you are trying hard to defend your church teaching but it doesnt work here.

raphieMontella:
because thats how silly the crucifixion story is

Yea you truly sounded silly as your submission does not reflect the truth about crucifixion. The whole thing boils down to ignorance on your own part. Making mockery of what you dont understand translates to making a mockery of yourself.

raphieMontella:
lol...we dont get bored of saying the truth..
Truth is bitter..you know?

Your OP smacks of crass ignorance and ignorance can never be classified as truth.

JMAN05:
Yap, He evidently didn't use His foreknowledge on those persons, and it is not even essential since He was creating those whom He wants to use their freewill to serve Him.

From the bolded, the word "freewill" clearly shows he was aware that the people he was going to create can either choose to serve him or reject him. This clearly contradict your statement that he didnt find it essential to have foreknowledge of the fall of man.

JMAN05:
As witnesses, we do ask those in the churches these same questions. It isn't plausible to predestine someone and make them responsible for their actions. In fact this defeats the principle of free will.

Gods has the ability to know, but His omniscience isn't total, but inherent. I think you saw me discuss it with kingebukasblog on the other thread? If you clearly understand my position, you will know the conclusion that's plausible.

Again, Jesus is not the same as Jehovah, neither are they equal in power and age, but they have the same purpose. They are united in purpose. As such, Jesus was crying to his Father, the one superior to him (Jesus). This trinity teaching isn't scriptural. They keep misrepresenting Christ and his Father.

It is because of this that I created a thread for any who wish to get the perspective of Jehovah's witnesses on his/her questions. https://www.nairaland.com/3316955/why-not-get-perspective-jehovahs#48907902

What are you trying to say at the bolded? Are you saying that God had no foreknowledge that Lucifer will fall? He had no foreknowledge that man will fall?

raphieMontella:
Jesus being God is ominipotent and ominiscient...

Well have you ever thought about how bizarre the crucifixion story is?
Imagine the all-powerful, all- knowing creator of the universe sitting on his magnificent throne in heaven. He looks down onto earth and says to himself: Those evil humans down on earth. I hate what they are doing. All this sin... Since I am all-knowing I know exactly what the humans are doing and I understand exactly why they commit each sin. Since I created the humans in my own image and personally programmed human nature into their brains, I am the direct author of all of this sin. The instant I created them I knew exactly what would happen with every single human being right down to the nanosecond level for all eternity. If I didn't like how it was going to turn out, I could have simply changed them when I created them. And since I am perfect, I know exactly what I am doing. But ignore all that. I hate all these people doing exactly what I perfectly designed them to do and knew they would do from the moment I created them.
I HATE IT! I tried killing all the humans and animals once in the flood. That certainly did not fix the problem. So here's what I am going to do. I will artificially inseminate a virgin. She will give birth to an incarnated version of me. The humans will eventually crucify and kill the incarnated me. That, finally, will make me happy.
Yes, sending myself down and having the humans crucify me -- that will satisfy me. I feel much better now.
It makes no sense, does it? Why would an all- knowing being need to have humans kill himself (Jesus is God, after all) to make himself happy?
Especially since it is a perfect God who set the whole thing in motion exactly the way he wanted it?
The whole story of the crucifixion is absurd from top to bottom if you actually stop to think about it. Jesus clearly knew that he is God. In John 14:8.. Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father.
" So it makes you wonder about Jesus' famous lamenation in
Matthew 27:46: About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Since Jesus is God, what he really must have meant is: "Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?"
seriously does this make any sense?


Cc :4kings felixomor jman05 valentinemary
hopefullandlord sirwere ifenes realmindz johnydon22 cloudgoddess hahn oglalasioux

1. The redemption plan was already in place right from the foundation of the world as the bible said. You sre looking at these events of life as an after thought for God. Its not.
2. God is eternal and all knowing. Everything that is unfolding from him is an eternal plan which has been in him and being made manifest as he pleases. Bible report is given to us in a way human will understand the reason why God made whatever he made or allowed to happen but not that as event unfolds he now looks for a solution. These things are in his eternal/infinite knowledge but revealed to man in a way his finite knowledge will understand.
3. Everything that God allowed to happen from creation is for a purpose. Believe me the whole purpose of creation is God's interest and glory first. Our interest comes second and there is nothing wrong about it. You cant expect God to create this world with your interest placed above his. If am building something or creating something for myself, my first interest will be to please myself. Infact my interest is the motivating factor that propelled me into creating that thing.
It is a hard truth we have to face- God's first priority of creation is not to please what he has created.

4. Let me correct you that Jesus is not God rather he is one with God(unity). There are several places he made this clear in the bible. Even the one he told Philip which you quoted, he was simply reiterating what he has been telling them that he and his father are one. Its all about unity.

kilo4sure:
1) So if there are no amputees being healed in his church, then that automatically correlates to God not having the power to heal amputees?
2) Do you mean the syrophenician woman? Jesus actually healed her daughter, it seems you have no point to make
6) Well the catholics may have their reasons why they go about with the image of the cross, but not all Christians practice this.
7) Where did Jesus insult Paul? Jesus never even met Paul. What are you saying for heavens' sake, gosh.
And where did you see Christ, his apostles or the first generation of Christians killing people?
Maybe you should also heed your own advice, don't be a slave to everything you hear or read about on the internet. It is obvious you know nothing about what you are so eager to criticize and yet ironically you want to make us believe you are a freethinker.

.
Dont mind the fool that is telling someone to do research when she hasnt done any. Useless bunch.

Jozzy4:
Am forced to comment on this point alone , No man even the bible writers have seen God at anytime , the scripture calls him THE INVISIBLE GOD ... So all this description is pure anthropomorphism not to be taken literal

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Yea. No man has seen God as the bible said but Jesus said that God is a spirit. The bible also said that man is made in God's image. I am not saying that we are exactly like God. The difference is there but you cant say that God does not have eyes or mouth or hand or ears as the bible said. The truth is that his eyes or earn or tongue etc will not be exactly like ours. . He is a glorious being that we can't describe how exactly he is that's why I base my point only on what the bible said about him. But our main argument is about spirits.
you can go thru my argument with that girl to know what led to this so that you can understand it well. Thanks.

Naital:
LMAO. So many insults in nearly all your posts.

Both of you (honourhim & MizJanet) appear to have a few things in common (one always casting aspersions on the other's viewpoints) except that you are both at opposing extremities of this philosophical debate.

I know something that can effectively resolve this impasse ... Two revolvers, one bullet each.... A duel.

By the way, you still haven't given any reason why you cherry-picked the (body) parts of your GOD (not capitalised for emphasis) and the functions of those parts. Since the GOD you described is anthropomorphic, it's goes without saying that the tongue you spoke about should be complete in all its functions i.e. speaking...making th sounds , tasting spiritual food, protecting the spiritual windpipe from spiritual food particles, etc.

No offense intended, I just don't understand your argument.

Cheers!

The bold is sure. You dont understand. Follow my argument with her and you will understand.

The challenge she gave me is that God has no tongue since he is a spirit. That the tongue is part of the flesh and thus God being a spirit does not have tongue. Read what she wrote that i should show her where the bible mentioned about God having tongue. I have done that to her shame. I also went on to tell her that God has eyes, mouth, ears, hands as mentioned in the bible too but these things are still part of our physical body.
The issue here is not whether God eats or not, she is the one that is stupidly using that to make mockery. The simple point i was making based on my argument with her is that someone's spirit is the same shape as him but in a non physical form which she was kicking against for whatever silly reason.
Note that my argument is based on the bible which she is also taking me up on and i will limit my argument there.
Again i said that its only the parts of our body mentioned in relation to God in the bible that i can only talk about The ones not mentioned in the bible i cant say because i dont know.
Her challenge is that i should show her where the bible mentioned about God's tongue and i ve shamed her.
I dont see anything wrong in God having eyes, mouth tongue ears, hand as mentioned in the bible but they want to make mockery of it out of their stupidity. I ve said it if they see the other parts they mentioned in their mockery written in the bible about God they should show me and once i'm convinced biblically i wont doubt it because God has the right to whatever is made up of his being. Nothing wrong about it. I cant tell him how he should be.
Forget about the insults. I argue with some atheists and other form of believers here without any insults because we respect each others point even when we dont agree. But when someone begins to approach discussion with an insane mind just to make mockery as she has severally displayed with the other fool here then you put them in the proper ground where they belong. Feel free to support them as your fellow atheists if you care to but i ve made my point.

MizJanet:



the bolded statement disqualify your god from having tongue. And somewhere in the bible someone said spirit don't have flesh ~ Tongue is pure flesh man . and this same tongue mentioned in that story can taste water . lol god drink water. Very soon you will tell me God eat food

Proof from the bible that god have tongue ? U no get na to dey assume. basically, the pictures in your head about the god u serve must be so humanoid having every part of man including sex organs ( aftrall he is used for him, denoting a male ) god have teeth too , hahahaha am trying to imagine the kind of picture in your head about how god looked like . so pathetic that rational thinking is exchanged when your indoctrination is scrutinized

Habakkuk 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction. 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy TONGUE when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?..


Isaiah 30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his TONGUE as a devouring fire:

The bible told us that the eyes of God watches over us, his ear hears us, his hand upholds us. Now i ve shown you where it mentioned about his tongue to show you how foolish you are.
The other parts of our body that is not mentioned in relation to him we can't say because we dont know. Keep exhibiting your stupidlty.

I dont know why your foolishness tells you that he who gave us hand, eyes, ears, mouth cannot possess it. You said tongue is part of the flesh, is eyes, ears, mouth, hand possesed by God who is a spirit not part of the flesh ?
It is your stupidlty that makes you feel that the spirit cannot possess these parts in their spiritual body.

I think what God showed us in the bible are the ones he wants us to know for now. A comprehensive details of creation story can't be contained in just one book. It will come in several hundreds of volumes.
Even u as an individual, the story of your life cant be contained in just one book talk more of story of humanity.

MizJanet:

He really mess up his thread, very hilarious @ bold .. So true, He doesn't understand a single thing about it lol

Stop being foolish and start reasoning normal. You people like attacking every bible discussions like mad dog. No sane reasoning. All your intention is to make mockery of the bible without reasoning in balance with its submissions.

frank317:
Loooooool!!! So without tongue, spirit and even your God cannot talk? Do spirits also have intestine to digest their food? Sorry, do spirits go to toilet?

I can't stop laughing here... See tears for my eyes. Sir, abeg does spirit like Amala and goat meat too? Lol

Can spirits talk? Yes as i ve shown you in the scripture. Does the tongue play a role in our speech? Yes. So what foolish sense do u think u are making?

Can spirit eat? I ve not seen nor shown u such in the scripture. . So what"s the talk about food? You people are so stupld.. When u dont have any reason to counter a point u resort to Stupidlty of mockery.
If u know anywhere that talks about spirits eating in the bible then show me so that we take it up too and stop messing yourself up..
And what is wrong if God who created the tongue and made it part of our speech have a tongue too as part of his own speech part too?
You people are so stupld.

Below is a document i found related to this subject. Pls read and comment everyone. Thanks.

5solas:
The following article is taken from the book,

ABSOLUTE
PREDESTINATION

by JEROME ZANCHIUS
(1516-1590).
It is hoped that it will help us understand and apply this doctrine for our good.


OBSERVATIONS ON THE DIVINE
ATTRIBUTES,

NECESSARY TO BE PREMISED,

IN ORDER TO OUR BETTER UNDERSTANDING
THE DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION.

ALTHOUGH the great and ever-blessed God is a being absolutely simple and infinitely remote from all shadow of composition, He is, nevertheless, in condescension to our weak and contracted faculties, represented in Scripture as possessed of divers Properties, or Attributes, which, though seemingly different from His Essence, are in reality essential to Him, and constitutive of His very Nature.

Of these attributes, those on which we shall now particularly descant (as being more immediately concerned in the ensuing subject) are the following ones:

His eternal wisdom and foreknowledge
The absolute freedom and liberty of His will
The perpetuity and unchangeableness both of Himself and His decrees
His omnipotence
His justice
His mercy

Without an explication of these, the doctrine of Predestination cannot be so well understood, and we shall, therefore, briefly consider them by way of preliminary to the main subject.

THE DIVINE WISDOM AND FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD.

I.—With respect to THE DIVINE WISDOM AND FOREKNOWLEDGE, I shall lay down the following positions:—

POSITION 1.—God is, and always was so perfectly wise, that nothing ever did, or does, or can elude His knowledge. He knew, from all eternity, not only what He Himself intended to do, but also what He would incline and permit others to do. "Known unto God are all His works (ap aiwnoV) from eternity" (Acts 15.18).

POSITION 2.—Consequently, God knows nothing now, nor will know anything hereafter, which He did not know and foresee from everlasting, His foreknowledge being co-eternal with Himself, and extending to everything that is or shall be done (Heb. 4.13). All things, which comprises past, present and future, are Unclad and open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

POSITION 3.—This foreknowledge of God is not conjectural and uncertain (for then it would not be foreknowledge), but most sure and infallible, so that whatever He foreknows to be future shall necessarily and undoubtedly come to pass. For His knowledge can no more be frustrated, or His wisdom be deceived, than He can cease to be God. Nay, could either of these be the case, He actually would cease to be God, all mistake and disappointment being absolutely incompatible with the Divine nature.

POSITION 4.—The influence which the Divine foreknowledge has on the certain futurition of the things foreknown does not render the intervention of second causes needless, nor destroy the nature of the things themselves.

My meaning is, that the prescience of God does not lay any coercive necessity on the wills of beings naturally free. For instance, man, even in his fallen state, is endued with a natural freedom of will, yet he acts, from the first to the last moment of his life, in absolute subserviency (though, perhaps, he does not know it nor design it) to the purposes and decrees of God concerning him, notwithstanding which, he is sensible of no compulsion, but acts as freely and voluntarily as if he was sui juris, subject to no control and absolutely lord of himself. This made Luther,1 after he had shown how all things necessarily and inevitably come to pass, in consequence of the sovereign will and infallible foreknowledge of God, say that "we should carefully distinguish between a necessity of infallibility and a necessity of coaction, since both good and evil men, though by their actions they fulfill the decree and appointment of God, yet are not forcibly constrained to do any thing, but act willingly."

POSITION 5.—God's foreknowledge, taken abstractedly, is not the sole cause of beings and events, but His will and foreknowledge together. Hence we find (Acts 2.23) that His determinate counsel and foreknowledge act in concert, the latter resulting from and being founded on the former.

THE WILL OF GOD.

We pass on,

II.—To consider THE WILL OF GOD, with regard to which we assert as follows:—

POSITION 1.—The Deity is possessed not only of infinite knowledge, but likewise of absolute liberty of will, so that whatever He does, or permits to be done, He does and permits freely and of His own good pleasure.

Consequently, it is His free pleasure to permit sin, since, without His permission, neither men nor devils can do anything. Now, to permit is, at least, the same as not to hinder, though it be in our power to hinder if we please, and this permission, or non-hindrance, is certainly an act of the Divine will. Hence Augustine2 says, "Those things which, seemingly, thwart the Divine will are, nevertheless, agreeable to it, for, if God did not permit them, they could not be done, and whatever God permits, He permits freely and willingly. He does nothing, neither suffers anything to be done, against His own will." And Luther3 observes that "God permitted Adam to fall into sin because He willed that he should so fall."

POSITION 2.—Although the will of God, considered in itself, is simply one and the same, yet, in condescension to the present capacities of man, the Divine will is very properly distinguished into secret and revealed. Thus it was His revealed will that Pharaoh should let the Israelites go, that Abraham should sacrifice his son, and that Peter should not deny Christ; but, as was proved by the event, it was His secret will that Pharaoh should not let Israel go (Exod. 4.21), that Abraham should not sacrifice Isaac (Gen. 22.12), and that Peter should deny his Lord (Matt. 26.34).

POSITION 3.—The will of God, respecting the salvation and condemnation of men, is never contrary to itself; He immutably wills the salvation of the elect and vice versa; nor can He ever vary or deviate from His own will in any instance whatever, so as that that should be done, which He willeth not, or that not be brought to pass, which He willeth. "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa. 46.10). "The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, and the thoughts of His heart to all generations" (Psalm 33.11). "He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? and what His soul desireth, even that He doeth. For He performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with Him" (Job 23.13,14). "Being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1.11).

Thus, for instance, Hophni and Phineas hearkened not to the voice of their father, who reproved them for their wickedness, because the Lord would slay them (1 Sam. 2.25), and Sihon, king of Heshbon, would not receive the peaceable message sent him by Moses because the Lord God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into the hand of Israel (Deut. 2.26,30). Thus also, to add no more, we find that there have been, and ever will be, some whose eyes God blindeth, and whose hearts He hardeneth, i.e., whom God permits to continue blind and hardened on purpose to prevent their seeing with their eyes and understanding with their hearts, and to hinder their conversion to God and spiritual healing by Him (Isa. 6.9; John 12.39,40).

POSITION 4.—Because God's will of precept may, in some instances, appear to thwart His will of determination, it does not follow either (1) that He mocks His creatures, or (2) that they are excusable for neglecting to observe His will of command.

(1) He does not hereby mock His creatures, for if men do not believe His word nor observe His precepts, the fault is not in Him, but in themselves; their unbelief and disobedience are not owing to any ill infused into them by God, but to the vitiosity of their depraved nature and the perverseness of their own wills. Now, if God invited all men to come to Him, and then shut the door of mercy against any who were desirous of entering, His invitation would be a mockery and unworthy of Himself; but we insist on it, that He does not invite all men to come to Him in a saving way, and that every individual person who is, through His gracious influence on his heart, made willing to come to Him, shall sooner or later be surely saved by Him, and that with an everlasting salvation.

(2) Man is not excusable for neglecting God's will of command. Pharaoh was faulty, and therefore justly punishable, for not obeying God's revealed will, though God's secret will rendered that obedience impossible. Abraham would have committed sin had he refused to sacrifice Isaac, and in looking to God's secret will would have acted counter to His revealed one. So Herod, Pontius Pilate, and the reprobate Jews were justly condemned for putting Christ to death, inasmuch as it was a most notorious breach of God's revealed will. "Thou shalt do no murder," yet, in slaying the Messiah, they did no more than God's hand and His counsel—i.e., His secret, ordaining will—determined before should be done (Acts 4.27,28); and Judas is justly punished for perfidiously and wickedly betraying Christ, though his perfidy and wickedness were (but not with his design) subservient to the accomplishment of the decree and word of God.

The brief of the matter is this: secret things belong to God, and those that are revealed belong to us; therefore, when we meet with a plain precept, we should simply endeavour to obey it, without tarrying to inquire into God's hidden purpose. Venerable Bucer, after taking notice how God hardened Pharaoh's heart, and making some observations on the apostle's simile of a potter and his clay, adds4 that "Though God has at least the same right over His creatures, and is at liberty to make them what He will and direct them to the end that pleaseth Himself, according to His sovereign and secret determination, yet it by no means follows that they do not act freely and spontaneously, or that the evil they commit is to be charged on God."

POSITION 5.—God's hidden will is peremptory and absolute, and therefore cannot be hindered from taking effect. God's will is nothing else than God Himself willing, consequently it is omnipotent and unfrustrable. Hence we find it termed by Augustine and the schoolmen, voluntus omnipotentissima, because whatever God wills cannot fail of being effected. This made Augustine say,5 "Evil men do many things contrary to God's revealed will, but so great is His wisdom, and so inviolable His truth, that He directs all things into those channels which He foreknew." And again,6 "No free will of the creature can resist the will of God, for man cannot so will or nill as to obstruct the Divine determination or overcome the Divine power." Once more,7 "It cannot be questioned but God does all things, and ever did, according to His own purpose: the human will cannot resist Him so as to make Him do more or less than it is His pleasure to do; quandoquidem etiam de ipsis hominum voluntatibus quod vult facit, since He does what He pleases even with the wills of men."

winner01:
I'm positive that people whose lives could otherwise be affected by the senselessness of atheists evangelists here would definately benefit from this.

Keep up your good works my brother. Many are being strengthened by it. Some have even confessed it here.

Jesus told Peter- "...and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren" (Luke 22;32).

Thats exactly what you are doing my brother. God bless you.

frank317:
Can u imagine how he has made a mess of his own thread. Someone claiming to teach us how to overcome fear of hell fire does not even understand anything about it.
I just wonder what God does with his spiritual penis... Lol

MizJanet:
then that means you are the fool for saying man is in the image of your god in the flesh !
, in the flesh the parts tongue, breast , vagina and penis are present ... so its necessary to ask if god have this too to validate your statement .

Both of u can keep fooling yourselves. Nobody is forcing u to believe. Its a matter of time and you will be in everlasting regrets if u dont repent.

5solas:
@honourhim
Concerning the subject, this is a very useful link:
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/articles/are-there-two-wills-in-god

I ve just finished reading it. Quite revealing thanks a lot.

MizJanet:
I can't laugh oooooooo

@ bold , god has breast , vagina , penis ?

Every right thinking person understands that simple biblical statement while fools will always have the kind of understanding u posted here.

frank317:
Lol... Telling u what? I am asking u questions to show u how foolish u sound... I think u saw ur stupidity that why you are trying to assume u know not what I am talking about. Does spirit shyte?

Now that i have pointed out your foolishness and stupldity you have started blabbing. Bunch of hypocrites.

MizJanet:


This is the most irrational and illogical post have ever read . I can as well ask you, CAN SOMEONE BE REFFERED TO AS " HE" IF THEY DONT HAVE THE MALE SEX ORGAN ?
Don't dodge it, I just want you to see how sensible you are.

the bolded statement disqualify your god from having tongue. And somewhere in the bible someone said spirit don't have flesh ~ Tongue is pure flesh man . and this same tongue mentioned in that story can taste water . lol god drink water. Very soon you will tell me God eat food

Proof from the bible that god have tongue ? U no get na to dey assume. basically, the pictures in your head about the god u serve must be so humanoid having every part of man including sex organs ( aftrall he is used for him, denoting a male ) god have teeth too , hahahaha am trying to imagine the kind of picture in your head about how god looked like . so pathetic that rational thinking is exchanged when your indoctrination is scrutinized

You pretend not to know that God created man in his image. While we have his image but in the flesh, He is a spirit. Keep pretending.

Genesis 1

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


You dont believe in God, you dont believe in spirits yet you re here arguing with me how a spirit should or should not be. Hypocrisy of Naija atheists.

frank317:
Loooooool!!! So without tongue, spirit and even your God cannot talk? Do spirits also have intestine to digest their food? Sorry, do spirits go to toilet?

I can't stop laughing here... See tears for my eyes. Sir, abeg does spirit like Amala and goat meat too? Lol

The same you that does not believe in anything outside the physical is the one telling me how a spirit should be. Shows the hypocricy in your claim of atheism. You dont believe in God, you dont believe in spirits and spiritual realm yet here you are telling me how spirits should be? Hypocrisy.

americanigga:
you are mixing things up.
God,angels and satan are spirits. They can talk, walk, they have form like human beings. But man does not have a spirit inside him that has form like a man. What man has is a flesh made from dust and a breath that made him a living soul. Man is a a living soul. What is a living soul? A living soul is flesh and breath from God. The bible did not say God created spirit and put it inside flesh to make man.
It is because you have been hearing such things for long that is why you think it is so. Take your time to sudy things.

That is the reason God said when the trumpet sounds the grave shall give up the dead. If man actually has spirit what happens to the spirit when a man dies. Where will the spirit go to? You know spirit cannot die. Will the spirit go to heaven or hell, then when the trumpet sound the dead body will now resurate again to go and join him(the spirit) in heaven or hell?

When Adam sinned against God. God said dust you are and dust shall you return.

Nope you are wrong.The spirit of man is not just his breathe. Now lets check this biblical statements and see whether spirit is the breathe-

1 Corinthians 2;11
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Here talks about the spirit of man having knowledge. Does this sound like just breathe or smoke?

1 corinthians 6; 20
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Also does spirit as mentioned here look like breathe or smoke?

1 cor. 14

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful..

This sounds like breath or smoke too?

1 Thess. 5

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


1 timothy 4
22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

Finally 1 Peter 3

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.



Now be sincere and tell me how spirit means just breath or smoke and not being from the few bible passages up there