₦airaland Forum

On Engenni and Degema Edoid origin and language by Talbot.
Never in history were these people counted as Ijaws.

Talbot even finished Ijaw in his book.
He straight up noted that Engenni, Abua, Odual, Degema, are not Ijaw people.
He quickly linked Engenni and co to Isoko(Edoid) and Degema/Abua to Efiks ( Ibibiod).

You just scored an own goal bro.
I will now use this Talbot book and finish you.

By the way, Talbot still quoted Captain Crow that give you lots shivers when it comes to Bonny Igbo origin.

This is what Talbot wrote.
Notice he attached "Great" to Igbo!

JANK23H:
Of the Ijos Dr. Talbot wrote:

"The population of (Southern Nigeria) is divided into three main groups: Sudanese, Semi-Bantu and Bantu... The Sudanese occupy west and central portions of the country. The most important of their tribes are the Yoruba, Edo-speaking people, the Ijaw, who lived in the Niger Delta, and the Ibo who inhabit the regions between the Niger and the Cross Rivers. . .The most ancient of all are the Ijaws, descendants perhaps of the earliest Negroes who penetrated the West Africa forest"

The linguist Prof. Key Williamson wrote:
". . .Ijoid is highly differentiated from all its neighbors; it is spoken only within the delta. A long period of differentiation from its neighbors must have taken place, and in considerable isolation. It is therefore highly likely that it took place within the Delta. We may assume that the ancestors of the Ijoid moved into Delta at least 7000 years ago and lived in sufficient isolation from their neighbors to develop considerable changes in their own language and remain unaffected by the changes influencing those neighbors"

ccAlabo7876

What page of Talbot book did he write that.
I have the book available with me and I'm still looking for the part where he wrote that.

JANK23H:
Same way you said no historical mention of Ijos anywhere until you I presented them to you.If I show you Ijo arts now,you'll ascribe it to other tribes like you've just done to diminish our achievements.

Keep fooling yourself.

What?

I said no historical mention of Ijaw in Bonny, and you never provided any evidence to prove that.
We all knew that the teeth filling Jos men terrorized Waters in and around Bonny, but were never recorded as inhabitants of Bonny.

Rugaria:
I have investments running into millions in Anambra state. I don't permanently live there, this ijiot.
Stop quoting me and typing rubbish all the time, much as i would want to respond to you, you seldom say anything intelligent. Don't know why you're so daft and dense..

Stop replying that entity.
He/she/it is not even Igbo but sleeps 24/7 on Igbo related issues.

Nope. The Nubians are a highly organized people capable of great technological and artistic feats.
Ijaws lack these two traits. They were not good in technology ( no metallurgy, construction, etc skills) and arts( no known Ijaw arts), the ones they claim are the Ibibio arts of proto Ibibiod people like Andoni, Ogbia, Abureni, Obulom, and proto Edo people like Udekeme, Engenni and Epie-Attisa.
The real and not Political Ijaw people in Kolokuma Opokuma homeland, are not known for another productive venture beyond rudimentary fishing.

In conclusion. The Ijaws cannot be Nubians.

Ojiofor:
Can you swear with your life that Ojiofor is not Igbo?
Stop reasoning like senseless Ipobians you are too intelligent for that.

Enyia. No one is deceived here. I have been on this forum long enough, infact since 2007 to know what's up.

gidgiddy:
If there is any push for war, it is Nigeria doing it. IPOB wants referendum, Nigeria wants war.

What is funny is that in 10 years, Nigeria with its military might cannot defeat Boko haram. As we speak, large parts of the North west is in the hands of ISWAP, even parts of Buhari's home state of Katsina

The point to be made here is that much of the North is already in the hands of armed thugs and I predict that one day, they might be strong enough to overrun Abuja.

This talk of war in the SE is just a smokescreen to hide the fact that Nigeria is already on its part to disintegration

The Boko Haram in NE and militias in NW are controlled by Northern elites.
They are all political tools.
If at IPOB you lots can't recognize this simple glaring stuff, then I am afraid your reasoning abilities have to be questioned.

Point is that if you are foolish enough to open up another war in Igboland, the outcome wouldn't be as different as that of 1970.
Those militia and Boko Haram members will be enlisted into the Nigerian terrorist army and be unleashed on Igbo women and children like the Gwodogwodo terrorists from Chad and Niger were unleashed on our women and children during the civil war.

The Minorities will negotiate to have more of our lands, especially the oil bearing ones carved and given to them. Those people incase you don't know or haven't noticed, don't mean well for us. Many of them are praying that foolish IPOB lead Ndiigbo to another war.

The Yorubas will look out for their own interests, which essentially means not going to war with you, but looking for how to replace all Igbos in FG parastatals with their own unemployed youths and people.

Better start thinking well now.
Because sensible Igbos will not allow you jellyfishes take us backwards, we will eliminate all of you to save ourselves.
Una go fight Sabo internal war tire.
We all want Biafra, even more than IPOB, but we are sensible enough to understand the role of TIMING and PATIENCE.

gidgiddy:
If there is war, Boko haram will align with the government to fight and keep together the same Nigeria they are fighting to get out of?

If there is war, ISWAP will abandon its caliphate ambitions to come and keep Nigeria one?

I laugh in Chinese.

If there is war again, the Nigerian military will figgt on multiple fronts, aganst different enemies and it will lead to the dissolution of Nigeria

No country survives two civil wars

You are a funny fellow.
Ojiofor is not Igbo. But I agree with his opinion here.
You can't base your victory in a war on others fighting alongside you.
Ojukwu did same with Awolowo and the South West and we know how that panned out.
Boko Haram and other agitators in Nigeria can always be compensated by the FG.
Heck, they might decide to relocate Igbos from Igboland and gift our land to Boko Haram and other waring groups in exchange for their support. And these groups will play along.
We are surrounded by unfriendly minorities who are eyeing our lands too, the FG can promise them a piece of it too, in exchange for their support, and if what we saw in 1970 were to be a template, we already know how that will pan out.

You IPOB people are senseless and real Igbos must stop you guys before you push us to another war.
Because it's obvious that many of you are incapable of deep and rational reasoning.
You forget easily that beside football, Igbophobia is the only other thing uniting Nigerians.
Better mind yourselves o.

Now we know why airlines keep cancelling and delaying their flights.
Common man has suffered in this country.

The Ugoloma for Okoloma makes so much sense.
God bless the mind who was able to connect those dots!

Alabo7978:
Lol, you need to brush up on HISTORY.
The Brits only became prominent in the late 1700s-1800s.
Before the Brits, I traded with the Portuguese and the Dutch, and if they still held away, the Brits wouldn't have began their activities at all. So YOU SHOULD THANK GOD for removing the Portuguese and Dutch. Una for dn finish be that, but as always, we'll keep the more beautiful Wawa women to produce children, while stubborn men like you, SlayerForever, Igboid Bkayy Ekealterego ofoigbo will be sent across the Atlantic to go and live a miserable life.

You have been tasked before to mention one Ijaw trader, and you couldn't mention one.

Ijaws were never Players in the slave trade.
It was all Igbo affair. The kings in Bonny, New Calabar(Kalabari) and Opobo were all Igbos.

Igbos were the final sellers in Bonny and Opobo, and the middle men(Aros) , they were also the main slaves sold, simply because they have more population to sell.
If Ijaws had population, Aro with their Edda, Abam and Ohafia warriors would have ransacked your small communities and enslaved you all.
But you simply were not worth the effort, you didn't have the numbers.
Even at that, some of you that could be captured, were also captured and sold.

See their decendants here:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbice_Creole_Dutch

Very well researched and referenced.
This is how history should be told, in a scientific manner, devoid of cock and bull manufactured and distorted narratives.

Good job. Bonny remains anthropologically Igbo. Every precolonial history book out there says so.

BKayy:
The case of Olukwumi is just like the Northerners in Ama Hausa, Awka claiming that they are indigenous Awka and proposing history roping the entire Awka people as Hausa stock.

Both Olukwumi and Aboki are the same thing. They mean "my friend", a term Ndigbo in early 20th century used to migrant Yorubas and Hausa respectively.

Ugbodu people have since seen the trouble Yorubas are trying to cause for them in Enu-ani, and have since risen to correct the misconceptions.

The owner of this blog is an Ugbodu person and an active member of our "Proudly Anioma Proudly Igbo" Facebook page.
He is also a youth leader in Ugbodu.

Go through this corrected version of Ugbodu history and see.

http://ugboduanioma..com/2018/11/a-brief-untold-history-about-igbo.html?m=1

mybiz234:
Which Awolowo idea are you referring to? You should mention it now or keep shut.

Awolowo would declare independence because he is a military chief Abi? Or did anyone tell you that yorubas had their own military unit? Why are you so daft in your reasoning?

Exactly. Zik couldn't have stopped Awo from Secession, because Zik was never a military Chief.
Did that fact escape your brain too?
Who is daft now?
Zik suggested the secession clause stay. But he was never a military commander and never pointed guns at Awo to accept it.

mybiz234:
But he argued in support of the idea and his entire tribe is suffering from what he supported.

Can you deny that?

And Yorubas whose leader Awo agreed to Zik idea, are living in eldorado today? You lots are funny.

Why didn't Awolowo stop Zik by declaring Western region independent, if indeed he was against secession clause removal?

Jameseddi1:
Osalobua is ancient Benin word for God your Anioma Originated in same Era as Esan.

Anyone can write anything in his or her own books.

Please go read document fact and not just anybook.

Onitcha agbor kings started in 15th century from 15 16th century that when this place kings was first documented. Same with Esan Benin have been using that OSA word for century eyewitness by the world European and all before Onitcha Agbor Esan started existence.

Olise Esan Osebelu are all corrupted Benin ancient Osalobua word. Olise is a Benin origin word same with Osadebe.

Now you just prove a point that Agbor king never lied about their Benin root same with Onitcha man Zik who wrote exodus in 19th century about how onitcha came from Benin.

No wonder this people kings still carry Benin royal swords of office given by Oba till date.

But all this still didn’t change the fact that all Igbo/Ebo was under Benin control documented in 17th century.

Only way to prove me wrong is to bring a documented fact older than 17th century ok.

Bini is much more younger than Agbor and Western Igbo clans.
And you actually borrowed alot from them.
Including Osanobua like already stated.
You can't break Osanobua down to a meaning in Bini.
But Igbo can break Olisa bulu uwa down to a meaning. Which goes to show that they are the originators!
Same way you borrowed Igbo market days and even Igbo palm fruit "Ofigbo" (Ofe Igbo) from Ika people.
Bini is a relatively Minority and like most minorities, a hybrid created out of the interactions between the Igbo, Yoruba and the original Edoid people represented by the Oza, Esan and Etsako people.

Bkayy.
You are right in your argument of many groups including the British trying to lay claim to our local textile industry.
Notice the Belgian above was so fascinated with our local textile industry that hf ignorantly assumed we got our local weaving looms and industry from "the Caravans" which I take to mean from the Trans Sahara trade. He struggled to understand that an Indigenous African group were capable of such feats without influence from the Caucasians ( Arabs or Europeans).

But we all know this is false. Because Ndiigbo never engaged in Trans Sahara trade, and the Igalas who did who we had contact with, had no local textile industry as sophisticated as ours. They( the Igalas) depended on us for their local textiles when they are not buying from their trans Sahara trade route.

Our ancestors were truly a special breed of people.
This was also how they( the Caucasians) had nightmares understanding how an Indigenous African ethnic group were capable of producing such sophisticated arts as found in Igbo ukwu.
Even with Nri people describing the names and use of every single item found in the excavation site at Igbo ukwu, by Ancient Igbos. Many Europeans are still in awe.


Igbo di egwu, di omimi ma dikwa ebube.

What the Igbo accomplished in precolonial NIGERIA, no Nigerian group can compare to it.

Not even their envy, jealousy or bitterness can erase the accomplishment of our Igbo ancestors!
We have to be grateful to the white men for keeping records of these events.

����������� �� ������ ( �������) �� � ������� �������� �� 1880
The town extends over a space of more than, half a mile, scattered over with houses, the walls of which are made of hardened sand, of a very red hue, which indicates the existence of numerous beds of iron. Long alleys and well-trodden paths separate the various groups of huts from each other. I counted more than fifty, and each group seems to form a little village. The total population of Onitsha may be eatimated at 15,000 ; the people are active and industrious ; everywhere there are plantations of maize, yams, and bananas ; the palms are carefully pruned, and the cotton-trees or bombax are well cultivated. The natives recognise their value. They clean their cotton, spin it, and weave it on primitive and very simple looms, which they have no doubt learnt the use of from the caravans. But though fabricated at a great expense of time and patience, the cloths they make have, perhaps, greater solidity and durability than our cottons. Before spinning the thread they die it with indigo, which grows wild among them. As there is no occasion to economise it, they use only the heart of the shoot, and thus obtain a blue which can compare advantageously with our dyes.

ADOLPHE BURDO 1849-1891.
The Niger And The Benueh,Travel in Central Africa.
An officer in the Belgian army who made a trip to central Africa in 1879 and went up to the Niger to its junction with the Benue. On his return he published the book: The Niger and The Benue.

The Igbo Character in Written History (I)
H. H. Johnston, on the 12th of November 1888, described the Igbos to the Royal Geographical Society of Britain thus:
“The Ibo country is densely populated. Their towns are of a very distinct character, with rectangular houses well-built of clay and thatch, interspersed among groups of magnificent trees, which are purposely preserved and cultivated by the citizens. Among these are noticeable Dracaenas of great height, with red trunks and dark green spiky fir-like foliage.
The Ibo towns are never crowded, each house or little group of houses standing by itself in an independent compound. The open spaces in the town are kept scrupulously clean, being frequently swept with brooms made out of twigs and palm-fronds, which are industriously plied by the boys and youths who keep the town in order. In the vicinity of this settlement, there are dense groves of the oil-palm, and thriving plantations of maize, yams, beans, and colocasia arums.
The Ibos are exceedingly industrious people. They weave grass-cloth, and display a very marked aesthetic taste in the designing of their implements and textile fabrics, and in the interior decoration of their houses, in all of which, and in their social arrangements, they are greatly superior to the degraded coast tribes, who seem to have lost their ancient culture.
They are clever smiths, and make a good many implements from the iron which they smelt themselves from the soil, in their primitive forges.
The Ibos I look upon as the promising tribe of the delta. It is they, at present, who create the trade ; Ijos and Kwos - their neighbours on the south and west - are but middlemen, non- producers.
The Ibos are industrious agriculturists, and have fine herds of cattle, goats, and sheep, and quantities of fowls and ducks.”

Reference
Johnston, H. H. (1888). The Niger Delta. Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society and Monthly Record of Geography, 10(12), 749–763. https://doi.org/10.2307/1801065

South Korea has one ethnic group called Korea!
That's the foundation of their patriotism. Monolithic/ Monoethnic country is easier to rally around an Indigenous ideology to achieve success.
NIGERIA is a modern day tower of Babel and will NEVER achieve unity or patriotism from the commoners.
Because the component ethnic groups are diverse and have divergent ideologies.

babafesfes:
CHIBUIKE ROTIMI AMAECHI
IS THE MOST QUALIFIED PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE THAT HAS ALL THE QUALITIES OF THE NEXT NIGERIAN PRESIDENT.�

�HE IS FROM SOUTHERN PART OF NIGERIA ( he will balance the power shift from NORTH TO SOUTH)
�HE IS FROM SOUTH SOUTH (he will complete the SOUTH SOUTH presidency that Jonathan started
�HE IS IGBO /IKWERRE BY TRIBE ( he will SETTLED the call for IGBO PRESIDENCY)
�HE HAS LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE (A legislator for 8yrs , A GOVERNOR for 8years and a FEDERAL MINISTER for 8yrs
�HE IS BUHARIST ( will have the support of majority of the North
�He is younger than Atiku Abubakar and Bola Timubu
�HE IS A NATIONALIST ( He believes in one NIGERIA ��)

Nope. Amaechi is SS and will not take the turn of SE.

JANK23H:
Oga answer the question!
That phrase is important to that "hypothesis".

Also very good you used "hypothesis".

It's a logical Hypothesis.
Since both the ancestors and early settlers in Bonny, New Calabar, Okirika and Brass admitted to their original non Ijaw Origin, and out of the four, only Bonny seem to have managed to hold unto it's Aboriginal Igbo Language, while the Igbo language of New Calabar, Okirika (except in pockets like Okujagu, Ama Ndubisi, Ogan ama where Igbo Language survived and in Abuloma where the proto Ibibiod language survived) were lost. They seem to have totally lost their original mother tongue and had them surplanted by Ijaw one.
Glynn made a rational deduction that to change a mother tongue that drastic, you would have needed to change the mothers over a long period of time.

This argument was never about whether Bonny original Aboriginals were Igbo speakers, the people themselves told Glynn they were originally Igbos, so that fact was already established!
The only reason Glynn was making this hypothesis was to explain how Bonny became Bilingual in Igbo and Ijoid language, while New Calabar, Brass and Okirika totally lost their original language to Ijaw infiltration.

JANK23H:
Please expantiate on "riverine terrain" I don't know the meaning.I could have checked Google,but I don't know how to.

Between Oguta in Imo state, Bonny and Ado-Ekiti,which of these are "riverine terrain"?Maybe I'll understand better.

Glynn made a hypothesis that Ijaw as a language in Brass, New Calabar (Kalabari) and second language of Bonny, was likely a latter infiltration of those non Ijaw groups by Ijaws through marriage!

You now left the meat of his postulate and started looking for a straw man argument on the use of the phrase "Ijaw country", when Glynn had already by his hypothesis placed Ijaw and Ijaw language as latter day Intruders into those communities.

Are you okay at all?

JANK23H:
An what were the Brass tribe from the beginning......Yoruba?

This guy sef.

Finima was founded by Torukobo which is an Ijaw name,all his children had Ijaw names.Is Wari or Diri Edoid or Igboid?The Igbo presence can be attributed to the slaves brought in.

Unfortunately your wishes don't represent facts.
The non Igbo presence in Finima was from Brass(which was non Ijoid in Origin).

Finima is Brass territory and they seem to have unfortunately assimilated too many Ijaws.

Igbos however have no interest in Finima, we are only interested in Bonny. We are just making you recognize that even in Finima, there was an Igbo presence from the very beginning.

JANK23H:
"......coming as they first did into the Ijo country"

That statement is weighty and implied Ijos were met there.

Ijaw country in this sense meant "riverine terrain".
Never did Glynn imply that Ijaws were there first.
He explicitly deduced that Igbo Aboriginals were far away from Igbo hinterland in Bonny and had to depend on Riverine Ijaw neighbors for wives, likewise Efik and Edoid ancestors of New Calabar and Brass respectively.
That was how Ijaw gained ground those places.

Ekealterego:
When did Baikie mention anything about wife? Baikie categorically stated that Bonny ancestory was unmistakably Igbo. It came from Pepple himself.

When Crow and Baikie came, they confirmed that but also acknowledged that majority are Igbos with some few Brass tribes.
No time in the history of these places have Ijaws ever ever been mentioned. Ijaws were only associated with piracy and river dwelling and of course.

New Calabar are a mixture of people and Igbos being chiefly a part of this. Even Asari acknowledged his father, who was also a titled man, and his grandfather and great-grandfather who were chiefs were Igbo. This is in line with all these ancients Ethnographic text.

That being said, Ijaw is a political expansionist movement rather than a tribe. That's why you all after groups that do not speak your language as far as they have oil and water.

Yes! Glynn noted that Brass itself was originally non Ijaw speaking but became infiltrated by Ijaws through maternal relationship.
Ijaws used to have materilneal society, which helped them infiltrate easily and alter language and society of surrounding independent non Ijaw speaking Niger Delta tribes, through marriage (Ijaw women).

JANK23H:
Igbo Aborigines and yet they met Ijaws there.

I can see the narrative is beginning to change.That'

They met no Aboriginals.
The Grand Bonny is a different location from Finima.
But as you can see even Finima has strong Igbo presence from it's founding days.
The non Igbo speaking groups in Finima were the Brass tribe, who were not Ijoid at the beginning.

JANK23H:
You don't have to guess,Baikie I think stated so,that the Igbos who landed in Bonny (as slaves) didn't come with any woman from their tribe.

Now you contradict yourself.You and your co-revisionists had earlier called the Kalabaris Igbo,and stated explicitly that Ijaws were Sierra Leone.At some point you said they lived only in boats as pirates.

It's the other way round.Igbo language infiltrated the Niger Delta, especially Ijaw land through marriage,and it's still going on as I speak in Bayelsa today.

That deduction was made by Glynn not Baike.
Glynn and Baike already stated that Bonny Aboriginals were Igbos.
We had provided receipts on this countless times.
Baike never said that Igbos landed in Bonny as slaves, he explicitly said that Bonny early settlers were Igbos.

See the receipts again, incase you want to develop selective amnesia.

Below is the history of Omuso given by the Amayanabo of Bonny!

Even the Omuso itself was originally from Igboland.
His great grandfather was Nwulu who came to Bonny from Okirika, he begot Ukwu, who was later renamed Buo. Buo gave birth to five sons which Omuso was only one of them.
My educative guess is that the Igbo Aboriginals of Bonny didn't arrive to the island with Igbo women, so they kept marrying Ijaw women who brought the so called Ibani(Kalabari language) to Bonny.

NB: Both Nwulu and Ukwu are unmistakably Igbo names.
Which buttresses our point, that even Glynn himself reinforced, that Ijaw Language infiltrated the entire Eastern Niger Delta from their Kolokuma homeland, through maternal relationships!