₦airaland Forum

Zikkyy: You are asking the wrong person. Talk to Oga Ube.

Lol........you were thanking UBE for shifting the goal post from easter to pascha as an escape route........

Now I ask you wetin be pascha wey u dey talk about for here......

Zikkyy: Let God decide. You are not in a position to determine that on behalf of the Almighty.

.........even with enough scriptural commands and principles you still want God to whisper in your ears that worshipping him in a sango shrine would be repulsive to him??.....

Zikkyy: Even after I told you some people dont know what are easter egg or bunny Look like

But they ob§erve easter....and we've seen where it came from....

Zikkyy: Why not? The only reason you knew bout easter is because a national holiday was granted to enable full participation. I doubt if there is a Sunday catholics are not feasting something; something you are not aware of.

Make I hear word o............

As we know Jesus neve® instituted any commÉmoration for his ressurection,so Í know you woulÐnt even observe a rememberance for his ressurection if not for the permanent cu§tom of easter.......

Zikkyy: You still don't gerrit, being pagan does not mean everything they do is unacceptable to God.pagans also engage in acts of love. Consider the centurion whose servant was sick. He was considered a good man and was building synagogues for the Jews. Can we say the building of synagogues cannot be done by servants of God because its already been done by the centuries? An action or activity can only be wrong if its not acceptable to God. It is not because it was done by pagans.

And you still don't get it too......what pagans do as regards there worship to there gods would always be something detestable to God and servants of God are to run from such practices...............

When pagans follow the patterÑ set by Gods servants like the centurion then it isn't sÓmething detestable to GoÐ.....infact God is loÓking for suchlike ones........but what if it was the other way round??.....that a Jew was the one building pagan temples??...........hope you see what I'm seeing........

Zikkyy: This na New one. I thought ishtar was a spring festival or something I don't know bout this one, so cannot comment.

Hehehehe...if you like run....ishtar is easter...

Without ishtar therÉ would not be easter...

Zikkyy: we are saying the same thing, the custom and practices adopted has to do with the animals.



if you are talking 2013, i will agree. but back then the pattern of worshiping was not exclusive to pagans. sacrifice using animals was the same. if you say they had se.x with the animals as part of their worship, i will agree it was exclusive to pagans, but i don't know about that bit sha. can you share those patterns that God servants were told not to imitate? i must have missed that bit.



if you adopt a pagan festival, you are not celebrating Jesus. adopting the spring festival amounts to celebrating the spring festival just as celebrated by the original (pagan) celebrants without modification. That has nothing to do with Jesus. The Easter (or pascha, thanks Mr. Ube ) i know contains element of fasting, prayers, thanksgiving, reflections e.t.c. i see some churches acting out the events leading to Christ arrest and crucifixion like the palm sunday thing, the washing of feet e.t.c Italo & co can correct me if am getting it wrong. i don't see anything spring in these activities. It would be nice if you can help tie this activities with the worship of ishtar. The other question will be if such acts can be considered un-Godly. It is on this basis one can or should reject the celebration.



believe me i was listening/reading. the thing is that young man freksy was stuck on egg, rabbit and hot buns cake. one cannot conclude that a celebration is un-Godly based on some additional stuff that is based on choice i tried showing that young man that the stuff he was hanging on to show that the celebration is pagan can be removed today with ease. in fact a significant proportion of the celebrants don't celebrate with those items. will their removal result in a celebration that is acceptable to God? if it will not, then they are not worth considering in our discussion. We should focus on what is important.



sure.

Zikky what is pascha.....you just dey thank UBE....wetin be pascha??...answer me....

Zikkyy: Jesus said then that location does not matter, what matters to God is for us to worship in spirit and truth. God is not concerned with your location. You can worship God anywhere you find ya self

God is concerned when paganism is about to be attached to our worship to him........

Zikky God cannot aCcept worship that is offered to him from a juju shrine........

What relationship does baal and God have??......

Ask yourself....

Zikkyy: you dey ask again is it not for worship? abi una dey use kingdom hall as bar (a.k.a. beer parlour ) on part time?

Worship of who or what??........

Please walk into a KH and a sango shrine and tell me if there isn't any difference...

Zikkyy: I agree with you that it is God that draws the line and not man drawing the line. That's why i always say we should consider the fact that pagans and Christians live in the same society. categorizing a practice as pagan because it was done by a pagan is not ideal. Its safer to assess an activity or action using God's law. if something is sinful then it is not Godly, whether performed by a pagan or by a Christian.

The scriptures draw the line.......

The bolded is wrong bro.........you mean if pagans engaged in the use of beads in worshipping there gods a right thinking christian can do the same thinking he is worshipping the Father with it??....you forget that as christians we have a foundation already built that we are to stay on.......the moment pagans set the precedence applying scriptural principles should tell you to avoid such ways......

Zikkyy: i believe you refers to ishtar or eaostre you stated something here which you have always been against. It is the intentions of the heart that matters. So if i eat cakes with ishtar in mind, then am worshiping ishtar, i agree. Then we both agree that i can go ahead and enjoy myself celebrating Jesus resurrection. am not thinking ishtar when i jollof. Thank you sir

I refer to easter...........there's this question I've asked before and will still ask again..::::......if the catholics did not institute easter (since we've established that easter did not originate with Jesus and his apostles) would you ever think of celebrating the ressurection of Jesus??......

Would you In your life celebrated Jesus' ressurection devoid of the easter observance??.......talk true o......

And don't you ever think there's any difference between ishtar and easter.....if ishtar didn't exist we wouldn't be talking about easter........

Zikkyy: Nothing like pagan ways, only un-Godly ways.

Pagan ways are under all-ungodly ways.......

And so I'm right when I say the ways of pagans....the moabites,cannanites, and the romans were pagans.......

Zikkyy: i still dey think am

Zikky answer na.......answer so that I go knw wether we dey waste out time here........

Zikkyy: it's not about me being able to interpret. dropping bible references without interpretation is not ideal.

And all the verses that have been dropped here are not self explanatory??........those verses are quite clear to anyone who is ready to repudiates pagan practices

Zikkyy: i don't think this was the message in the 2 Corinthians verse you posted. if something is unclean, its unclean whether you 'cling' it to Jesus or not. i consider anything sinful as unclean. you don't wait till you 'cling' it to Jesus before it becomes unclean.

What's the difference other than in this case Jesus in question here............clinging pagan customs to Jesus is unclean......na lie??....answer yes or No....

Zikkyy: you need to clarify the easter you have in mind. is it ishtar (spring festival), or is it easter (pascha, thanks to Mr. Ube ) the celebration of Jesus resurection? which one?

And what is pascha??.........answer me...what is pascha??...........

I'm talking about ishtar the supposed commemoration of the ressurection of Christ which Christ himself nor his disciples ever instituted......

Zikkyy: there's no special approach. it's either you knee, stand, sit e.t.c and non of this approach was unique to either Jews or pagans. God did not tell the Jews not to knee when praying because it was also a pagan way, he did not tell the Jews not to offer bulls as burnt offering because Baal worshipers also offer bulls in worship. So we need to be careful the way we designate things as either pagan (and unacceptable) vs. Holy and acceptable. If sango worshipers eat barbecued chicken as part of their worship, people like you and truthislight will immediately categorize such activity as pagan and unacceptable. am happy you people are not God, otherwise there will be nothing left to eat

Now your problem is the animals itself.......I am talking about adopting pagan customs and practices............

Pagans used animals in there scarifice but ofcourse there pattern of worshipping there gods with those animals were exclusive to them(the pagans) and Gods servants were not to imitate such patterns............


If Sango worshippers eat barbecued chicken during there festivals as a custom and I as a christian adopt both the festival,customs and its pattern and tie it up with Jesus ,how would Jesus feel??....

Hope you see what I mean??the chicken is not even the issue,rather the pagan custom and its rites is what is the bane here......easter and its customs has no dealings with our master Jesus but with paganism...and encyclopedias have shown you,but you would rather not listen.....

Zikkyy: there is nothing new to borrow.

Sure??............

Bidam: that is always the problem with JW.LET US START WITH ELEMENTARY STUFF. WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND BY THE WORD FAITH? IS IT NOW OR FUTURE?

Lol...talking about living forever it is futuristic....I don't understand how you want to obtain eternal life now without God bringing an end to this system......why on earth do you think you need to endure to the end??...why are you still suffering from old age and death??.....

Faith is what would make one endure to the end.......

Zikkyy: Lol! have told you to stop asking questions of this nature, haba! tell me, can you go knocking on people door in Borno state today? am not saying people should go to shrine and worship, but if you find ya self there due to one (acceptable) reason or the other, nothing stop you from praying to God. and God will not reject your prayers.

Mbaaa....the scriptures do nt agree with you........the buildings of pagan worshippers isn't a GO area for christian gathering......the apostles never did such..........

I can preach to people in borno,but I'll do that discreetly so that bokoharam them no go use me shine......

There is no reason why I should find myself at a shrine to worship my heavenly Father........

Zikkyy: Did Jesus and the apostles lay out a worship program, to which we must strictly adhere? i know such program (if any) does not include the building of kingdom halls. That was at you guys discretion abi? so what are you saying?

All I'm saying is all the early christians needed was to gather and definitly not under the sun or in the rain...they needed shelter.....if the homes of fellow christian bros and sis are readily availably the need for building KH's wont arise,,,,.........

Zikkyy: The same reason shrines are built

Hehehehe....and what is that reason??........

Zikkyy: I posted my comment already. you pretend not to see it:

I didn't pretend to...I just wanted to know wether since the blood in the animal was still created by God his servants could still just stubbornly eat it along with the animal
thinking God would accept it.......

Remember we are on do not adopt the ways of the pagans.....God always drew this clear line between being godly and following the ways of pagans.......

Zikkyy: The bold indicates am in agreement that the Israelite cannot eat strangled meat because we know God detest such behavior. and am asking if God detest also the eating of cakes and rabbit? so we avoid them as well. it's a simple matter na, or you don't think so?

God would detest cakes and rabbits that are eaten for the sake of easter celebration........the clause there is easter(which is pagan)............

Do not adopt the ways of the pagans...

Zikkyy: I agree with you that the principle is still the same. meaning we must avoid anything that the Lord detest

Yes nau....and this includes adopting pagan customs and observances.........

Zikkyy: so oga ijawkid, what exactly is unclean? is it the idol worshiper himself? remember say una dey hang out together, una dey the same office, una dey go shop for the same market, eat for the same eatery. except you want to migrate to planet Mars so what exactly is unclean? is the rabbit running around in the bush that is unclean? is it the cake baked by the bakeries that is unclean? maybe the unclean stuff has to do with what has been dedicated to other gods. so tell me, what exactly is unclean? It's not enough to just drop bible reference here and run away

If you can't from the scriptures discern what is clean and unclean then maybe you need to be ready to learn how to do that........

Adopting a pagan observance and clinging it to Jesus is UNCLEAN..............

Of which is EASTER is one of it.......

Zikkyy: after 9 pages, na now you remember to ask the question you should have asked in page 1 you see your self na condemn first ask questions later and you say you know what you are talking about Why should i even respond to this question after you people been branding me an idol worshiper anyways make i go think am

Hehehehe...because you sound confused and meticulous as well......come out boldly and say I dey do easter o or I no dey do easter o......

If you no dey do easter then this discussion don end,but if you dey do then e no go end until you gree Jesus side...........

Come announce wether you dey do or not....

Zikkyy: i will give you two

1. he is likely to lose them to worship of other gods. i.e. they will turn their back on him. Remember the commandment "thou shall have no other gods before me"?
2. they will pick up practices God does not want to see. e.g they will kill contrary to the commandment not to kill (pagans offer their children as sacrifice). they will make graven images (remember the commandment) e.t.c

is that to say the Israelite and pagans don't have stuff in common? after all pagans pray just the way the Jews will pray, they offer animal sacrifice just like the Jews. God don't want them mixing with pagans because of the bad stuff. BTW you forget you belong to that category of people that God said his people should not mingle with, abi you don forget say you be gentile? your ancestors were 100% pagans (na them dey offer their children as sacrifice those days. you lucky say dem no born you for that era ). if we follow your approach to interpretating the OT, you should be in the opposite camp, i.e. the camp the Israelite must avoid

I am a gentile quite correct and principles as regards my relationship with pagans still stands till this moment......

How do the Jews pray and how do pagans pray??.........is it the same??.....oya start answering.........remember adopting the ways of the pagans is what I'm on.......

What if an isrealite borrowed the pattern of the pagans in prayer to God,would God accept it??.........

Bidam: WRONG.the reward of eternal life is NOW.

John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 5:24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES ARE JW TWISTING AND DISTORTION TO SUIT THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRET IONS..OFCOS YOU ARE ONE AND THERE IS NO POINT ARGUING WITH THE WATCH TOWER ANYWAY...I SMELL THEM ALL OVER THIS THREAD AND THE LIKES OF FROSBEL WHO CLAIM HE IS NOT..SUCH HYPOCRISY.

Lol @ the bolded.....

So there is no more ""he that endureth to the end is the one that would be saved""?......

Eternal life is futuristic my bro...stop saying things you don't really know...if you have eternal life now then I guess you aren't gonna get old in this world...........

Bidam if I see grey hair for your head we go fight ...........if you ever get old we go fight too........

Zikkyy: how can you be saying a thing like this. you know if the apostles show up in such places, the worshipers will attempt to sacrifice them to their gods that is not to say God will not hear their prayers if they find themselves there. i thought we already agreed on this bit

Zikky why didn't the apostles ever think the way you are thinking??.......your love for paganism seems to be so colossal........

Ask yourself why the apostles never ever thought of going into the temples of zeus and artemis to preach,talk less of converting it to a place of worship??....

Zikkyy: Also ask yourself, did Jesus say sango and amadioha's shrine are excluded?

Please read 2 corinthians 6:15-17. And let it sink down your brain......

Or ask yourself why Jesus himself did not walk into the pagan shrines to worship his Father.....

Your problem is that you feel you can dictate the way you choose to worship God........

My brother flee from paganism...flee!!!!!!.....

According to boomark your longer throat no get boundary....

Zikkyy: you are jumping to another issue here using my response to your theory that says adopting the ways of pagan is indirectly worshiping other gods. my post was to show you don't know what you are talking about!

And from the scriptures adopting the ways of pagans is tantamount to what??......I can't really understand what kind of christian you are.........can you give me one good reason why Yahweh would detest the isrealites from mixing up with pagans??....

I know what I'm talking about from the scriptures as regards Yahwehs dealings with the isrealites and how he viewed his servants handling with pagan practices and customs.....

Zikkyy: ..and what is the way of pagan in what i do? abi you saw offering human sacrifice to God?

Do you celebrate easter??...yes or No......

Zikkyy: abeg stop shouting jor out of the over 600 different laws issued by Moses to his people, how many have you implemented. Are you worshiping God as commanded by Moses? God has told his people not to adopt the worship pattern of pagans because he found them offensive. These commands are still very relevant as guides in conducting our worship today. we should ensure we don't engage in practices that are abomination to the Lord. That's what you should take away from the part of the scripture you are referring to.

Gods laws as regards his servants relationship with pagans and there practices has not changed a bit........those principles still stand because satan and Yahweh have not recently become freinds.............

If you've forgotten you can read this verses again from 2 corinthians..


2 Corinthians 6:15-17
New International Version (NIV)
15 What harmony is there between Christ and
Belial[a]? Or what does a believer have in
common with an unbeliever? 16 What
agreement is there between the temple of
God and idols? For we are the temple of the
living God. As God has said:
“I will live with them
and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they will be my people.”
17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
[b]Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.

Zikkyy: After all God did not tell you to build kingdom halls, and you go about building Kingdom halls left right and center. abi you don't know it pagans that build shrines recklessly like that in the OT you keep referring to there was only one temple; one house of God.

you should stop interpreting scriptures like a robot.

Why do you think kingdom halls are built??.......you think if the houses of everyone were readily available we would build kingdom halls??....and can you please walk into a kingdom hall and find out it resembles a shrine??......

It is better to think like a robot alongside scriptural standards than to be so loosed like you.....you think accepting pagan practices would make God smile back at you??....

Zikkyy: but i can eat meat abi? only the one that is not strangled abi? so tell me did God say cake is offensive to him so i don't eat cake anymore or i do away with my delicious rabbit stew

Now you run away from the main point.......remember I pointed out one custom or practice Gods people were not to touch.....eating meats that are strangled.......comment on it and stop asking me about rabbit stew or cake.......

Reyginus: Lol. Before I agree with you, let me ask google first.

..........

Reygie you wan drive ooman mad??.......

Zikkyy: That time there was only one place of worship, you cannot worship God any other place. You could not even build a kingdom hall in your backyard to worship God. Now things don change, God dey your heart now, he no dey stay for kingdom hall. and Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name, he dey there kamkpe, he did not specify location.

And the apostles who never held gatherings at the temple converged at the worship places of zeus,artemis and the other pagan gods??............abi??.

And when Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered,did he also include sango and amadioha's shrine as suitable places for. Such meetings......smh!!!!!!!.......

Zikky I've told you to watch your view of paganism...............

What dealings does paganism have with truths??.....ask yourself

Zikkyy: Which way did I adopt? From a Christian perspective, a pagan is likely one that does not recognize the Almighty instead he/she worship other gods. Abi no be so? Which other way can one adopt the ways of pagans again? When God told his people not adopt the worship practices of some pagans in the book of Deuteronomy (i think), he did not say the action would result in the worship of other gods. He only said that he found the approach of those bloo.dy pagans offensive (they sacrifice their family members).so where you get your own theory from?

Zikkky I doubt if you really understand scriptures....so you mean you still can't understand what God meant when he said his people should not adopt the ways of the pagans??,,,,you want to also try to twist such clear cut commands to support easter celebration??........

would the isrealites have adopted and converted celebrations(celebration to there pagan gods) of the moabites and cannanites to Yahweh??....would Yahweh accept such worship and observance??..........

Could the isrealites priests have copied the ways of the pagan priests in egypt,babylon and all other pagan nations??...........

Could the isrealies have adopted the pagan practice of eating strangles meat??.......

You want me to keep mentioning??....

You forget these isrealites have experienced Yahwehs blazing anger for foolishly following the ways of the pagans........

You forget??.....

italo: I will tell you when you tell us truthfully where Jehovah's Witnesses false prophesies and teachings come from. God...or satan?

On the other thread I truthfuLly told you all you need,,,,,....we only made speculations which ofcourse aren't prophecy(nobody ever gave the day and hour when an end is coming)............all the prophecies we need to keep on the watch and be observant are there in isaiah,daniel,jeremiah,habakukk,prophesies from Jesus,and then revelation...........

Satan does not give a damn about his world been obliterated but God does.......


But I can tell you what satan loves.....satan loves when people engage in paganism,spiritism, and the worship of the dead....

Now can you italo just give us 1/4th of any scriptural reason why you guys mummify and venerate dead bodies,and also embed them in your altars??..............

Because such act is the height of satanism and paganism....I've not seen what could be more fetish than that...........

You can decide and tell discussants on this forum which is satanic.....

Anticipating along with scriptural evidences features of the end times and also what would culminate into the end of this world or the veneration and implanting of dead bodies in the church.........

.......

Zikkyy: I have shown that you can worship anywhere and God will accept. You only disrespect the Almighty when you ignore him and go serving other gods. He made all things and everything belong to him. There is nothing like sango things. It was man that took what belongs to God and used them to serve sango.

Then you ask yourself why the isrealites didn't go into baals temple to worship Jah.....do you even consider the scriptures at all or do you just choose to believe what you want to believe??.......

When you adopt the ways of pagans you are indirectly/directly serving other gods.....

When the apostle says God has no relationship with demons/paganism what do you understand by that statement??.......

Zikky na wa for you o.........did Jesus your master worship God anywhere??.......

italo: I see Ijawkid and Boomark are desperately trying to derail the thread. The topic of this thread is still "Facts you should know about Jehovah's witnesses. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

Or was it the Catholic Church that made you give false prophecies from the father of lies, that made you adulterate the BibLe to suit your heresy etc?

Lol.........you said you guys need not make any adjustments or stern improvements In meeting up with scriptural standards even when falsehood at its peak is staring right at you in the face and there in your house............

Boomark: 1 Corinthians 4:6
New International Version
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond whatis written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

Do you now see the falsehood in what catholic church teach you. They hide under the word of mouth tradition to perpetuate lawlessness.

If you don't see Christian tradition in thessalonians, you will see it written in Corinthians or galatians, Hebrew, acts, Jude, etc. The whole truth and all you need was given to the apostles.

Catholics should stop deceiving themselves and people.

All I just want to know is why they bury dead people in there altars......I just can't fathom where that tradition came from......

Zikkyy: who told you sango priest consult the dead? which one be juju items again o? so you can only list 3 items (2 items there na the same) or difference between your worship and that of the sango priest. you can see there's not much difference between you and the juju man i don't know what you mean by juju items sha. am sure we can reduce the difference to one or at most 2

abeg dont sango priests consult ancestors and pray to them??_...you want make iI dey mention juju items?....you wan talk say u no know them?..



iI am so different from a juju worshipper..if you arent na you sabi...now iI see why you cant even tell between what is pagan and what is not....



and iI dont use graven images in worship..you forgot to spot that?...

Bidam: is casting out devils not in the bible? or ARE YOU AFRAID OF THEM? FORGET ABOUT NAIJA..THE WHOLE WORLD LIETH IN WICKEDNESS.

why should iI be afraid of demons...??...i have no dealings with them neither do iI associate with demons....



can you try casting out the demons in the bokoharam crew?...

Zikkyy: @bolded, what is the sango priest doing that you are not doing?

the sango priests prays to dead ancestors....he uses juju items in worship....he consults the dead.....he uses images and also statues in worship...etc.....

Pygru: False teachers/Prophets/Apostates/Reprobates

yeye.....

Bidam: Ijawkid and frosbel can't even cast out a single devil..let them talk about their experiences out their in the field for us to learn from..you people shouldn't waste time arguing with them..they are what we call 'false brethren'.

lol....ask the pastors who claim to cast out demons today to come tell us why naija is still like this after all the demon casting.......

the people iI gather with when iI worship God are nt demon possessed persons.....ask yourselves why most of the persons in your churches are always demon possessed....?.......something must b wrong...