₦airaland Forum

alexleo: why should i say its a parable when its not? your points are not convincing enough for me to accept its a parable. IT IS NOT A PARABLE. I cannot buy a product am not convinced about. Etisalat cannot just jump into the market and tell me to drop my MTN which i ve used for several years without convincing me enough why their product is better than the MTN. I cant drop it by their telling me to drop it rather by their strong conviction. And of course conviction becomes strong when all the objections i raise becomes weakened or totally wiped out not just in your mind but in my own mind too as the buyer. You people are forcing your product on us. Thats the characteristics of fake product marketers.

the bolded is funny...because right in front of your eyes I have proved that that story was a parable.....

you dey deny am...

no one is forcing any product on you...we would only continue to do our adverts well like glo until you leave your mtn line....

alexleo: Think twice for what? I dont read the bible with unnecessary sentiment like you people.

Lol........but at least tell the people you teach that its a parable....for a start....

italo: on the other thread about Jehovah's Witnesses and their heresies, Ijawkid lied that he always stays on topic when debating Catholics.

https://www.nairaland.com/1252257/facts-should-know-jehovahs-witnesses/2


This thread is about Mary being "Mediatrix" or not...but Ijawkid is accusing Catholics of killing people.

This is evidence that you are a liar.

Ijawkid, must you emulate your sect in their blatant and open lying?

Na your brother ask about russel o...I just been dey give am some info....

And I do stay on topics down to the end.........we have argued on this forum and you should know I'm ready to give rebuttals...

Did mr dokie stay on the topic when he said frosbel would end up like russel??....

Na only my reply you see abi??...biased boy....

italo: So Watchtower runs ZERO SCHOOLS and HOSPITALS!

WHY?!

BecÀuse its not pre-requisite for gaining eternal life...as individuals we engage in owning schools and hospitals....if that is not enough for you go report to Jesus.......our main work as a group is to preach.......I guess you guys should try that......

italo: Cant you Jehovah's Witnesses just own up to your lies and errors? Anyway that is the example set by your founding fathers.

Have I not on this thread said it boldly that we've made some errors in the past which we have left behind and looked to further improvements??,,,,were you deaf or blind when I made that comment??........

The question I'm asking you is are you willing to make improvements on your doctrine which mostly stems from paganism??......

italo: You said Jesus spent 90percent of his time preaching.

3 years out of 33 equals 9.09 percent.

You lied again!

When I said spent 90 percent I was referring to after his being baptized and annointed to do Gods will....if only you had settled to think my way.......

Jesus never got engaged in the preaching campaign not until he was baptized......am I lying??

italo: Which Bible?

The one Russell and Rutherford used...or the adulterated one by Knorr?

Bible semantics agaiÑ??......

can you show me the bible knorr adulterated??,,,,,do you even know who knorr is??........

italo: But your sect forbids you to interpret scripture on your own.

Whatever you claim to understand is only part of their lies and false interpretation, so we can as well take on your sect directly.

Your teachings change like the weather... what you believe today...you will reject tomorrow.

This cannot be from God, surely.

Naaa......most of my points I bring up here on nairaland are also from my personal scriptural study....you forget each JW is a full time bible student??.........

Most of my points I've dropped here on doctrines like trinity,hell fire,mary worship,wars,politics etc are mostly from my own bible study........

The basic tenets of what the bible really teaches remains intact.......

My question back to you is can you make a bit of change even when a truth is staring right at you??......

italo: You lied to the world. Lies from the father of lies himself - the devil.

We didn't LIE........can you define what a lie is??...its like saying when a meteorologist makes a mistake in reading the weather conditions he has LIED........what that meteorologist would do is work harder from time to time to make sure his research and findings are up to standard.......

This is exactly what The JW's have done......

.The Father expects every ch®istian to anticipate the coming of his Kingdom.......

italo: The koko is that your sect prophesied the end of the world several times claiming they were "God's dates."

All these dates have come and gone and the world hasnt ended.

Your sect lied in God's name.

Those false prophecies could not have been from God. They were from the devil.

Ahhh...so the devil would be interested in seeing the world come to an end??,.....abi??......it seems the devil is now on Gods side then...........

italo: Are you kidding me? And you call other people "stiff-necked?" Where is the evidence of this?

Evidence is based on chronology and a corroboration of world events.........I bet you don't even observe the times you're living.......

italo: You keep dubiously giving various names to what we all know are FALSE PROPHECIES from the pits of hell.

Hehehehe........the scriptures which is our text book is where the prophecies are....deciphering its meaning is what bible students do.........we are not prophets......the prophets have already written prophecies in the scriptures.........go and read the books of the prophets and revelation to know where the world is heading to....

italo: "misunderstanding" my foot. If it had come true, would you have called it "misunderstanding?"

Now that is why its called misunderstanding........you read the scriptures regarding world events and watch closely......

Try checking up the definition of misunderstand.......I can boldly tell you that in more years to come before the end finally comes prophecies regarding the lastdays would even get more interesting......

italo: Since Russell and Rutherford taught wrongly, isnt it possibly that Jehovah's witnesses today teach wrongly?

Can you mention the wrong things we hold on to that is wrong??..... As you see a witness with a bad preaching what does he or she believe that is wrong??.....can you please list out the doctrines......thank you...

italo: I only asked you a question: Is it true? You said it isnt true, then just show me schools and hospitals run by Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization...or Watchtower. It's easy.

Individuals who are witnesses own schools and hospitals......as a group we don't own schools or hospitals.........isn't owning schools and hospitals as individuals enough??........

italo: Jesus preached for mainly 3 years out of 33. Everyone know this except Jehovah's Witnesses, it seems.

and you forgot it was after Jesus' baptism and annointing that he started his preaching work for the 3 years......your brain didn't tell you that??........

italo: Dont forget that the Watchtower asks Jehovah's Witnesses to have nothing to do with Catholics...to not even speak with them.

Do you want to be disfellowshipped?

You be small pikin??.......

.......and who ever said we shouldn't speak with catholics??......e be like you just wan talk abi,,,,??

dokie: so the catholic church killed russells?

russel died normal as a human would and not because he repudiated doctrines like the trinity,mary worship,hell fire etc........i was just trying to let you remember what you guys do to those who rove through the scriptures.....kill them.....just a reminder bro....

alexleo: OH, AM I?? AND YOUR MASTER, FROSBEL, IS DOING WHAT?

lol.......settle down and keep discussing,......lets get to the end of this....so that when you wan tell wicked people say them gp burn like the rich man,you go first think twice...

striktlymi: SENTIMENTS!!!

you be my right hand man na.....you forget say na me and you suppose dey play right wing attack??....

Hebrews 5;6...
_______________________________
6 And he says in another place,
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[b]
_______________________________

From strikts stiff necked stance we can also assume that Jesus had been a high priest in heaven before coming to the earth.........

Abi strikt??..........

Jesus didn't even act as eternal Father until after his death and ressurection.......same goes for his everlasting priesthood office...
.......

All these priviledges were given to him by the Father......

alexleo: FALLING IN LINE WITH YOUR USELESS AND LAME TEACHINGS IS WHAT YOU WANT US TO DO? NONSENSE. YOU ARE JUST DAY DREAMING.

Alex why are you exuding so much anger??.....na wa o

dokie: " Iam the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep” (John 10:11) “and other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] ONE SHEPHERD” (John 10:16)

The scripture above says that Jesus is the good shepherd, and there shall be one fold and ONE SHEPH(word “Pastor” is the Latin translation of the English word “Shepherd”. So there shall be one fold and “ONE PASTOR”. If we would take your interpretation of 1 TM 2:5,and relate it to the above, it means that anyone who is called a pastor is taking the role of Jesus, and anyone who calls another human being “Pastor” has committed the sin you accuse Catholics of. Hold that one there.
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“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in Darkness, but shall have the light of life” (John 8:12)

This statement implies that Jesus is the only light, the One light of the world for it did not say “I am a light” but “I am the Light”. Jonathan is THE president of Nigeria and there cannot be another president of Nigeria at least while Jonathan is still President. For this reason, anyone calls another person “light of the world” has committed a blunder, a sin, that is if we should take your interpretation of 1TM2:5.

“Ye are the light of the world” (Matt. 5:14)

But above, Jesus with his own mouth now tells his disciples that they are the light of the world. Doesn’t this sound like a contradiction?

For somebody who reads the bible like a story book, It might appear as such, but those who read in line with spiritual insight know that though Jesus is the Only and One Light of the world, his disciples simply radiate His light to the world. The fact that Jesus doesn’t say that “You are radiating my Light to the world” but “You are Light” does not mean that the former is not the true position.

I am sure if should go deeper in scripture, I can find more analogies like the above, but the 2 above are sufficient.

Let’s look at 1TM2:5

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The word mediator simply means “a person who mediates, especially between parties at variance”. To mediate means to intervene in a dispute to bring about an agreement or reconciliation.

Man was at variance with God and Jesus came and intervened in the dispute between man and God to bring about reconciliation.

Does this mean that Jesus is the only mediator between man and God? Certainly it does; for no other person could have reconciled man to God. It was the sacrifice of the cross that brought about the reconciliation of mankind to God.

Does this mean that no one can share in Christ’s role as a mediator between man and God? Certainly Not. Anyone who tries to reconcile a man to God is actually mediating between man and God but only on the benefit of THE MEDIATOR Jesus. No other person can mediate between man and God in his or her own name and Capacity.

An unbeliever is unreconciled to God, and Infact an enemy of God (James 4:4), true or false? Now a man who preaches the gospel to an unbeliever, and gets him to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, what has that person done? Has he not reconciled the unbeliever to God? Has he not intervened in the dispute between that unbeliever and God to bring about reconciliation? Has he not mediated between that unbeliever and God? If I call that person a mediator between man and God would I have committed a crime? I would be wrong If I claim that by the benefit of that person’s capacity and ability outside Christ, such a person is Mediator between man and God, but once it is based on the established role of the mediation of Christ, which is hinged of the sacrifice of the cross, I have in no way undermined that Jesus is the One Mediator between man and God.

The same goes for Advocate, Helper, Benefactress etc.

So, that Mary is called madiatrix does not mean that the church is saying she is mediating between God and Man on the basis of her benefit. Mary has nothing to offer anybody outside of Christ. Infact the only reason why we know Mary is because of Christ. She is mediating on the benefit of THE MEDIATION of Christ, achieved at the cross.

Note that the Catechism you quoted stated clearly that it is on the basis of her “manifold intercession” - which means prayers for us – that she is invoked under those titles. Weather she can intercede (pray) for us or hear us at all is beyond this thread.

So Jesus now has a personal assistant......I see!!!!!!.......

dokie: Very much around. It appears you want to drag me into a debate, which i really do not fancy because people with made up minds benefit very little or nothing from debates. It only leads to more arguments and debates. Truthfully, I do not think anything I write here will make any difference to you (I really wish it could), I have however resorted to prayers for your conversion, not for necessarily you to return to the Catholic Church but at least for you to come out of the trap you are in, before you end up like the founder of Jehover’s witness, whose footsteps you are already following. Your zeal and single-mindedness would be a great asset in the true work of evangelism, but is presently mis-directed.

for whatever it may be worth,i will drop a line.

The bolded got me laughing.....all this just to show from the scriptures if mary is a mediatrix...........

And how did russel end??...he died as a normal man.......infact your church along with the then political leaders persecuted JW's......when people disagree with you guys you slain them....kill them.....imprison them...connive with the governmental powers to destroy the lives of people who have chosen to read the scriptures.......

Answer if mary is suppose to be mediating for you guys or not.......

chinedumo: Mark 12
18 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.

Jesus said

26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham,the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ [ d ] ? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of theliving. You are badly mistaken!”

The saducees never believed in the ressurection....and Jesus had to tell them that his Father is not the God of the dead but of the living.......

The ressurection is what Jesus was talking about....when one is dead he/she stops existing until ressurection.........

true2god: The issue here is that its diffiucult to knw wat u belief as a person, using the bible as a yardstick. Anyway i hope u see my post, or u read it comprehensivly before ur comment cos u sound as if u want to quote me before making ur comment.

As i said ealier, and i repeat, man is composed of the body, soul and the spirit as taught by paul the apostle and dats not to nullify that God breath upon Adam and he became the first living soul (cos ther is yet a conjugal relationship for human reproduction hence God direct involvement in creating the 1st man).

U can choose to belief wat u like, but dnt ridicle the bible as usual.

So what is mans spirit??.....define it with scriptures..........where is adams spirit??.....see if you don't consider all scriptures you'll get stuck.......

Bobbysworld28: Meanwhile if u get new rev concerning d issue pls do not hesitate to share

No wahala bro......

Remember we consider scriptures at large and not lay established truths or facts on just one parable.........

The scriptures must not contradict itself.......

I see pygru peeping....instead of engaging in meaningful discussions he would rather run around like lionel messi all over the religion forum........

Pygru...come and let's discuss HELL fire.......

dokie: i would. if you show me that my practice is against the word of God, by all means i will adjust.

i asked you on another thread to show me where keeping the body of the dead is prohibited in the bible, till today, no provision.

I am waiting.

while you are at that, the spirit behind every word is most important and not the letter. what good does the no punishment for sinners teaching do to the hearers.

i care less about any other errornous teaching of jw, for me, this is key.

So through out you years of studying the scriptures you have not come to know that it is to sheol we all return to when we die??....dust we are and to dust we return??......

storing up bodies and mummifying bodies is something detestable to our God..its absolute witch craft which only pagans practiced.........

All Jews were buried,including Jesus and not mummified as relics........you can also do well to ask your clerics where the thought of storing up bodies as relics originated from........

As regards the literal eternal torment wahala......JW's believe from the scriptures that satan and his cohorts,death itself and nations would undergo complete and total destruction(lake of fire)..........

@babby and alexleo.....I want to also ask you::::

WHAT DID LAZARUZ DO TO DESERVE going to spend life at the bossom of abraham??.......was it because lazarus was poor??...is poverty a requirement for gaining eternal life??.......

Make ona answer me ooo.....

alexleo: Lame and useless explanation. Good for the waste bin.

Ahhh.......

There are scriptures where Jesus explicitly talked about the total destruction of the wicked....Jesus never needed a parable to convey this........

This incident in luke chapter 16 is purely a parable......

And all the questions I've been asking assuming we took it literally have fallen on deaf ears......

What did the rich man do to be sentenced to life in a fiery HELL...??...

Alexleo what??

Bobbysworld28: @ijawkid, u managed to get this how? This subjective interpretation is dangerous & anyone can spin it anyhow.

Ahhhh.......I bet you never knew the pharisees and what the oppression the ordinary Jew suffered........

Now this is why it is a parable....remember I asked you what that rich man did to deserve the literal purnishment of eternal torment in a fiery furnace??.........that's if we assuming this story wasn't a parable.......

What was the rich mans crime??........was the rich man a bad man??

true2god: Its quite amazing wen i see pple blatantly twisting the bible to promote a false doctrine frm an organization.

Lets look at this scenario: i am lecturer in a university and after lecture i told my students 'may God bless u and protect u'. Frm ur analysis above, Paul was actually saying 'may God bless and protect the school' and not the students.

The problem is still the scrpited response from the watchtower passed down to the publishers as a default response to certain question; and dats not good at all cos its open to acceptin evrything whether true or false without independent jugdement. To put it clearer to u, Paul was praying for the xtains and not the 'composite church' as u cunningly and technically put it.

Man is composed of the spirit, soul and ur physical body (u can call it a container dat houses ur spirit and soul). Dats the major reason while u r asleep and in dreams ur body (or vessel) is lifeless while u can still engage in 'normal' activities as if u r in a phyical world (but in dreams).

This is just to point out the fact the man is made of the spirit, soul and body as put right by Paul the apostle. Dnt twist or misinterprete.

Paul was praying for the church,which is a composite body......and the christians put together make up that body........paul was not even toeing the spurious tripartite lane......what business has that got to do with pauls words to the congregation.......

Paul says may the spirit,body and soul of that body be kept blameless until Christ returns........

I want to ask you....going by your literal exegesis...

How can one keep his spirit blameless...??remember the spirit is the breath of life...how does one keep it blameless??.......



True2God you are welcome to this discussion....what is mans spirit??...I want to hear that from you...use scriptures bro....

alexleo: Your bible explanations are useless and lame to me and I don't care about any of it at all. Thanks.

Lol....why should you care??...when you've decided to teach that the breath of life has now turned into what escapes death to reside either in hell or in heaven...thereby negating the hope of ressurection...do you guys even believe in the ressurection??....

Pygru: [b]1.
The Jehovah's Witnesses deny the central teachings of the Bible.

The Jehovah's Witness organization denies that Jesus Christ is God. Instead they teach that Jesus Christ is a created angel.

"The facts show that this group is a deceptive sect."

However, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ, the Son, is God.

For example, Hebrews 1:8 says, "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever ...' " Many other verses also teach this — John 1:1,14; 20:26-28; Acts 20:28; Romans 9:5; Hebrews 1:3, 8-9; 2 Peter 1:1.

Jehovah's Witnesses deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Instead they teach that Jesus' body was dissolved into gases. Charles Taze Russell, founder of the organization taught, "The man Jesus is dead, forever dead" ( Studies in the Scriptures , Vol. 5, 1899, p. 454).

However, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus' body was raised back to life: For example, Luke 24:39 — "Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." See also — John 2:19-21; John 20:26-28; 1 Corinthians 15:6,14.

Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Holy Spirit is God. Instead they teach that the Holy Spirit is a impersonal force, like electricity.
However, the Bible clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3,4 — "Then Peter said, Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filledyour heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit... You have not lied to men but to God." See also John 14:16-17; 16:13-15; Romans 8:26-27; 2 Corinthians 3:6,17-18; Ephesians 4:30.

Jehovah's Witnesses deny that salvation is God's free gift. Instead they teach that salvation must be earned or merited. To obtain salvation and escape judgment, a person must join and do the works prescribed by the Jehovah's Witness organization.

However, the Bible clearly teaches that salvation cannot be earned or merited — it isGod’s free gift: Ephesians 2:8-9 — "For it is bygrace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast." See also: Romans 4:1-4; Galatians 2:16; Titus 3:5.

Jehovah's Witnesses deny the endless punishment of the wicked.
Instead they teach that unrighteous people will be annihilated and cease to exist.
However, the Bible clearly teaches the endlesspunishment of the wicked: Matthew 25:41, 46 — "Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into theeternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels .... Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."See also: Matthew 18:8; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; Revelation 14:10, 11; 20:10, 15.

Jehovah's Witnesses deny that human beings have a spirit that exists after death. Instead they teach that like animals, a person's life ceases to exist at death.

However, the Bible clearly teaches that the human spirit continues a conscious existenceafter death: 2 Corinthians 5:8 — "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be awayfrom the body and at home with the Lord." See also: Luke 16:19-31; Philippians 1:23-24; Revelation 6:9-11.

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that eternal life in God's presence is only for a select few. They claim that only a special group of 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses can be born again and live forever with God in heaven; all other Jehovah's Witnesses stay on earth.

However, the Bible clearly teaches that all those who put their faith in Jesus Christ will have eternal life in the presence of God. The Bible refers to this group as an innumerable multitude: Revelation 7:9, 15 — "After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb ... they are before the throne of Godand serve him day and night in his temple." See also: John 3:15; 5:24;12:26; Ephesians 2:19; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 3:1; 12:22; 2 Peter 1:10,11.

Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Three-in-One nature of God (Trinity) and teach that Sataninvented the doctrine of the Trinity. They reject all the scriptures that identify Jesus Christ as God and the Holy Spirit as God.
However, the Bible clearly teaches that the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are God (John 1:1; 20:28; 1 John 5:20; Acts 5:3, 4). It also clearly and forcefully teaches that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; etc.). It teaches that the Three are one— a Trinity (Matthew 28:19; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; 2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 Peter 1:2).

Is it not dangerous to follow an organization that denies the central teachings of the Bible?[/b]

When we try to engage you in discussions you run away.......

you are indeed a FOOL........

1..Trinity
2..Hell fire.
3..All good people go to heaven(earth remain un-inhabited)
4...Jesus with flesh and bone in heaven......

Can you please be reasonable and let's get into the discussion proper??....

You have not even given a reply to noomark on the other thread as regards the meaning of Godhead and here you are again repeating the same thrash you can't defend if a discussusion should commence.....

Bobbysworld28: @frosbel
If u hv exegesis, pls share. Is it nt better dt I base mine on wht Jesus said than on mere assumptions? Moreover wht I'm saying is nt on only one part. Though unrelated but isn't it strange dt Moses was one of d ppl dt appeared to Jesus on d Mount? Evn in our story he mentioned Abraham's name. A man with whom Isreal could easily identify.
On the other hand, let me go along with ur parable sundrome. Pls wht does d parable mean? Jesus didn't say because it wasn't a parable & u can't evn offer one.

I think its time we examine our beliefs critically. One more thing, don't come at me with Solomons words. He couldn't hv known more than Christ. Christ is our wisdom & he has given us a glimpse at d other side

Ok here is an application of that parable....

The rich man represented the pharisees who were self righteous and who looked down on the ordinary Jew....refer to luke 16:14,luke 18:11.....

The beggar lazarus represnted the common Jewish people who were despised by the pharisees but who repented and became followers of Christ......read matthew 21:31-32.....

Their deaths were symbolic,representing a change in circumstances...thus the formerly despised ones came into a good standing with God,and the formerly seemingly favoured ones(the pharisees and saducees) were rejected by God while been tormented by the judgement messages delivered by the ones whom they despised.........

obadiah777: ME AND AM GET HISTORY. HE IS ALWAYS ON MY CASE. JUST THOUGHT I WOULD RETURN THE FAVOR TODAY LOL

Lol......

chinedumo: Explain how jona was alife for three days under water.

We do know Jonah was not dead abi??.....

This is like asking how divers survive under sea when using oxygen masks.......