₦airaland Forum

jayriginal:

But eh, wouldnt your participation (direct or indirect) be at conflict with your religion?
Also, you claim your power is a higher one, so it should work too abi?

I don't put Yahweh to the test...you shoulda known that na.........


The bolded is correct bro........

Na ona one force me do wetin I normally for no wan do................

If I present a volunteer I would indirectly be part of the business.........

jayriginal: Its like you didnt read the link I provided. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
They will come to Bayelsa if you accept the challenge. We are talking of 1M USD. It can go round. Plus I will convert sef. Win win situation.

Make I check the site sef...e fit be scam sef.......

ezme: its is not my money bros, see the link here

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

I wonder why person go want use warri take dey intimidate warri boy for internet.

So you be warri boy na him u dey dull for here.......

mazaje1: There is a foundation called James randi foundation that has promised to give any body 1 million dollars, any body that can perform or prove any supernatural ability under a controlled environment. . .If you are serious you can make arrangements for your cousines to go there and test their bullet proof juju, if it workd they will be given 1 million dollars cash. . .if you are game, you and ypour cousins can be invited. . .Go proof the supernatural and earn a million dollars. . .put your hands where your mouth is. . .

And where is this freaking foundation??.......

mazaje1: people survive gun shots all the time, 50 cent survived 5 bullets shot at very close range, same with Tupac. . . i am talking about the bullet not penetrating them. . .that is a lie and has never happend. . .Once a bullet hits its target and the target is not wearing a body armour it must penetrate. . .

Come bayelsa na....escort mazaje come.......

mazaje1: Seriouly, I am not kidding, I will come and shoot them on their leg, if it doesnt penetrate, i will drop 10,000 euros and they will also shoot me on my leg. . .

Its like mazaje would love using a wheel chair......my freind e be like you no like ya leg.....because that leg would be shot after your shots do not penetrate an egbesu mans leg.......

And mazaje you also said or scientists said that our earth,the moon and the sun all came about through the formation of Gases...........can you please show us a photograph too of that??............

And have at the back of your mind that what you call explosions aren't just mere random explosions....we've seen how explosions here on earth leads to total chaos and not orderliness.........whÉn the twin tower was exploded new towers werent formed nor was there orderliness.......

Someone is behind what ever your scientists are viewing out there..........and you know who that is.........

mazaje1: The problem is that we have pictures and images of such explosions taken by the hubble space telescope, do you know anything about a nebulae? it is not something that I believe, it is something that evidence has been provided for, go and have a look at the images that hubble space telescope has taken, and stop yapping like a fool. . .You can see pictures of new stars that formed after old stars explode. . .Kepler has images of new planets forming out of the dust and debris. . .Keep believing in fairy tales that talk about some imaginary deity speaking things into existence in the hebrew language. . .You can't even show any picture or image. . The scietist have their images and pictures to show you of nebulae and planets forming. . .

And how does thi§ show that all planetarÝ bodies came into existencÉ through an explosion??........

I can see maybe planet earth was formed as a result of the explosion of a star and when that happened we coincidentally found ourselves inside the earth.........

Formation of gas dust as a result of the explosion of a star or stars in no way explains the origin of the universe.........

Maybe you can show us a photo taken 13 billion years back.........can you??......ask your scientists to provide it........

mazaje: Brother, bring your self and i will shot you on your arm or your leg with my own gun. . .If it doesnt penetrate i will give you 10,000 euros and you can shot me as well. . .

I don't need your money...all I want is for you to see that there are super natural powers........if I need money I go just go burst pipe.......

And like I said I wouldn't be the volunteer........volunteers them plenty.......

mazaje: Really, na em JTF dey kill wuna left right and center, abi?. . .Keep lying to yourself. . .

What about the ones wey survive the shots??.........besides the JTf's too smelt there heads.........

You are the one lying to yourself and not me........

mazaje: Plsssssssssssss i BEG you go and get the best bullet proof juju and we will meet at a place of my choosing. ..I am NOT kidding. . .I will shot you on your leg with my own gun. ..If it doesnt penetrate i will give you 10,000 euros and you can shoot me. . .If you agree to take this challenge when I get to naija in may we will try it out. . .You have from now to may 20th to get ready with your best bullet proof juju. . .I don't believe in hear say nonsense. . .Just action. . .

So if no be me you no go shoot??...........

I have voluntÉers......if I have to be the one then it means I would be delving intÓ spiritism which ofcourse would contravene my scriptural stance....

ezme: Ijawkid get one of your cousins to take the paranormal challenge nau. 1 million dollars na we dey yarn here. E plenty pass amnesty money when una dey flex for bayelsa now

If you get 1 million dollars make I run naked for road............

Make ona come bayelsa or warri.......make ona just come......

jayriginal: Your so called psychotic shooters hit people because they are shooting into crowds. Note that I never said it is impossible for an amateur to hit his target. Read what I wrote again.

I find it amusing that you wish to volunteer someone elses body and not yours for Mazaje's challenge. Playing safe are we?

As for your user name, it proves nothing.

Have you forgotten that I'm christlike and won't have anything to do with demons and spiritism??......

Who ever that is used shouldn't be a problem as long as the juju is working right in front of your eyes.......

mazaje: undireacted explaosin is what gave birth to our own star, after a supernova, new stars are born, the debris, and dust later come together to form planets. . .So yes, explosions do give birth to order, because even our own sun and planets came as a result of a supernova explosion. . .

I'm sorry to say this mazaje..but I'll have to say it...........

You must be a grown azz fool to believe in the bolded............

Explosion giving birth tÓ order??.....

Make I laugh my belle full abeg..........

bolaino: lol, see mazaje dey form trained marks man, lol,

Him body go tell am when him come bayelsa...I dey wait for am....

mazaje: Seriously, I can shoot quite well. . .Make Ijaw kid bring himself make we test him claim. . .If him no go down make i know wetin cause am. . .

Come bayelsa na........you go fit??...

Make we show you a child of 5yrs wey bullet no dey penetrate him body......

jayriginal: In addition, we could enter the James Randi Challenge and win a cool million dollars for proving the supernatural!
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

Now on the issue of bullets not penetrating people being shot, I advice anyone who can, to take a trip to the firing range. Precision with a gun requires a lot of training. Even if you point and think you have your target locked, there is still a powerful kickback that needs to be compensated for. The type of gun will also determine the type of kickback that will occur. This reaction will naturally throw off your aim. Now the natural impression would be that you pointed the gun straight at your target and missed (even though he might be close to you.)
The truth however is that you are not a trained marksman.

Now suppose your target is moving, running perhaps, that amplifies the problem as a moving target is harder to hit. Next thing, someone claims that it is evidence of the supernatural. No its not. Most of these stories are hearsay anyway because most people would not stay to watch a shootout. They will probably be running for their lives and will make up the story from a thousand and one sources.

Again, a trip to the firing range will validate these points Ive made. There you will see the difference between an amateur and a marksman.

These stories are not hear say...look at my I.d name and you'll know that I'm serious with what I'm saying........

I have cousins,brothers ,relatives who've got the egbesu juju all over them and who have been shot numerous times.......

I just can't get it when you talk about trained mask men and all that rubbish....

We are not talking about tÀrgets who are Ón the run...we are talking abÓut targets who were closed up and shot at close range......you guys can't just stay far away and make assumptions and conclusions.........

I have seen with my eyes........

The psychotic shooters who engage in killing sprees are they trained shooters??...but as we know they kill people........

I'm telling you guys the koko,you are there arguing blindly............

mazaje: We all know that eye witness testimonies are very useless. . . .Bullet proof JUJU is a myth. . .Bring any juju man i will come and shoot him if he does not fall he should take my life. . .If you agree then pls bring a volunteer and lets try it. . .I will come with my AK47 to any place of your choosing. . .Next month cos I will be in Naija. . .

Even the one wey I see with my eyes??...see this mazaje o............

Come to bayelsa na if you fit.......I ready.......just come...we go test am for somebody body and even your body so that you go rest........

You could even be the volunteer so that your mouth would be shut........

mazaje: It is a LIE. . .Bring such a person and I will shoot him with my AK47. . .The person MUST fall. . .Bullet proof Juju is a LIE and a stupid myth that is been bandied around with no evidence at all. . .

You see my problem with you guys..........

Always doubting when you know nothing........

You now have said the egbesu asawana juju is a myth when you know next to nothing about it.......

My question is where was your azz when the ijaw/itshekiri war was on??.........where were you when militants were at war with the JTF's.....??.......

I hate it when you guys act like you've seen and known it all when in the real sense you are just empty barrels.........

What do you know about the egbesu juju??......

Where are u sef??.........

........

musKeeto: And people went through the hassle of making bullet-proof vests?

Na me send them not to fit find out about other bullet proofs??......

At least no one can come here and tell me the egbesu juju is a myth or some trick.........

I don see am with my eyes.........

mazaje: Most of the things people claim are supernatural events, are just natural events that can not be explained. . .Example we have magicains that use tricks to deceieve that they have supernatural abilities, but when they explain their tricks you discover that it is just some esoteric natural knowledge they used. . .

What about many persons who have been shot with ak 47 rifles and no penetration.??......guess you would call that magic ba??.....

mazaje: I was never talking about money by the material world and how it is the only world we know so we must hold the view that it matters and most live in it and jettison the view that we are not part of it but part of some spiritual world that remains a mythical construct. . . .life most not be eternal for it to matter of be meaningful. . .It is human greed and selfhsiness that makes him want to live forever, as such he created the eternal life idea and keeps feeding it, we fear so much that death ends it all so we keep creating after life concepts like heaven, reincarnation etc. . .just to satisfy our fears. . .

The bolded is absolutely false.............humans yearn to LIVE forever because we were made so...........if you would end up as a waste for all eternity sorry that's not my portion nor the portion of anyone who is reasonable........"Just as the days of a tree would the days of my people be."....those are the words of Yahweh......I guess they don't apply to persons like you...

if you think humans wanting to live forever is because of Greed then come on over here and let me kill you,...........let us snuff the life outta you since the desire to live for eternity is not in your thoughts(I know you wish to live forever but pride won't let you say it hear..)

you talk like you wouldn't love to live forever because the scriptures says so....what more would you deny and not want to believe because of the bibles stance??.......

mazaje: If they had slapped jesus as he was beating them would have have turned the other cheek?. . . .

Why didn't they slap Jesus is what you should have asked...............

Jesus was in his Fathers house incase you forgot...........and he wasn't acting violently....the same as parents not acting violently when they spank there kids....and do not forget this same Jesus was slapped,dragged and spat on but never retaliated........I knew you would run to quote Jesus' reaction at the temple but run away from his reaction when he was impaled

mazaje: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to keep running from one city to another to aviod persecution
in his name and that before they finish going round the towns of israel he will return back to the earth?. . .What did he mean he told the chief preist before he was handed over to be crucified that soon the chief priest will see him coming down with power and glory from the clouds on his return?. . .

Would you be ready to learn if I told you with scriptures??.......

mazaje: The planet will be no more in the distant future, the sun is growing and will go so big someday that it will destroy all life on it, if it explodes the planet will be fried and dissappear some day in the distant future. . .An asteriod can hit the planet and end all life on it. . .Anything can happen. . . .Scientist are now thinking of ways to move the earth away and shift its orbit away from asteriods and the sun. . .They are trying to figure ways to move the planet away from the sun so that as it grows its heat will not destroy the earth and life on it. . .if the feel life does not matter and everything will end soon they won't be holding such thoughts, would they?. . .

I laugh at the bolded........

We are waiting for them to shift the earth....the same earth they've ruined

Logicboy03: Even you?

Ishi my love, how could you be this foolish? Spiritual bats that get burnt?

...

No be buzugee wife be ishiLOVE??.........

I no go fit seperate fight o...

mazaje: By being materialistic I was referring to a better world and a better life in general, not greed and selfishness. . .

If that is your definition of being materialistic then the scriptures do not have a problem with you......

I was considering a materialistic spirit from the bibles perspective..........

mazaje: This is the ONLY life we KNOW we have. . .Any other life after this remains ONLY a speculation that has not been shown and can never be shown to be true. . . .

You know the bolded is also a speculation??....

mazaje: I consider to be maretialistic. . .We can disagree on that but I consider it to be such. . .My main point is that the belief that this life does not matter and we are not of this world can never make any society grow and develop. . . .

Being no part of this world does not mean the world does not matter........this earth/world would remain forever.....so it matters to me........what Jesus encouraged was leading a balanced life....BALANCE bro..........

I want you to come to the niger delta and see what materialism has caused to the niger delta people......oil theft has destroyed land, and aquatic life.........the individuals engaged in this act are not developing the niger delta region....our politicians who are stealing day and night are not improving the lives of anybody...infact it would take one who isn't BIG eyed(materialistic) to make the niger delta and nigeria at large to move forward......



people can solve problems devoid of the drive to make money at any cost.........

And mind you:::...the world matters to me..because I hope to live on it forever.....

mazaje: God needs money. . .He needed it to build his temple and told people to contribute towards it. . .Its written in the bible. . .

Your first comment sounded like God encouraged his people to be materialistic..........making contributions to build a house of worship did not require servants of God to be materialistic........God encouraged hard work and not a materialistic spirit.........

mazaje: I never said what you are implying. ..of course most of their wars was for material gain. . .

Good...........at least you know...

mazaje: What exactly was the mind of christ. . .We were told that jesus went into the temple and started beating up the money changers when he saw them selling and corrupting the house of god. . .Why didnt he let them do what ever they were doing without beating them up?. . .It is actually not true that a person that will turn the other cheek can not go about looking for trouble. . .

Did Jesus go looking for trouble or were the money changers and charlatans the ones looking for trouble??.........

Why should Jesus have allowed them do what ever they were doing right there in the house of God?.............need I remind you that Jesus' action at the temple was a fulfillment of a prophecy recorded by the psalmist??.....Jesus did not go around with whips flogging each and every sinner......abi??......

You might as well chide godly parents who spank there kids for incessantly engaging in wrongdoings

mazaje: What is the mind of christ?. . .

Ofcourse you do know the mind of Christ.....you've been kicking against it......

mazaje: The words were clear, Jesus told chief priest that he will see him come from the clouds as he returns with glory. . .He told his disciples that they should run from one town to another when facing percecution in his name, before they finish running round all the towns of Israel he will return. . .Told the people speaking to him at that time that their generation will not pass before he returns...All these happened over 2000 years ago. . .The world will surely end some day. . .Life can end today if a very big asteriod falls into the earth or when the sun grows too big and explodes which it will some day in the very distant future. . .But the world will not end as the bible puts it. . .

Oboy you know even understand wetin Jesus mean........

Now I knw why you guys have abandoned the scriptures....

You've got absolutely no knowledge of scriptural truths.......


The world could end any way.....the scriptures too never specifically say how the world would end or by what means...it could even be by asteroids.............

The main point is this world(not the physical earth) would soon meet its end....

obadiah777: OYEL MAN

...........

I dey yarn them the koko na...

ezme: Do you expect untrained marksmen to make accurate shots? Why MEND dey run from JTF? Abi the juju dey fear assault rifle?

I think na to ask this yeye questions u don resort to abi??....

Are the cult boys who make accurate shots on the head of a rival cult member trained to make accurate shots.....


E be like you dey forget say the JTF's them dey do the juju too......you think say the JTF's them never tire to dey shoot people wey dey barely die??.....

Besides now as we speak JTF and MEND them be padi.......

Both collaborating in carrying out oil theft.............

Oboy.......I have seen men,boys shot with ak 47's and it never penetrated there bodies........

These are facts bro....I would only deny them the day I start suffering from memory loss..............

ezme: The Asawana boys when fight warri crisis them no fall some? Asawana dey work for head shot? We not talking awka made rifles here o

Why some?...why not all??..........from your own statement you can deduce that the juju worked on some...abi??.......I am a full time niger delta boy who has seen these things happen in front of my eyes.........they are no tricks......

If you wan find out if asawana dey work for head shot go to the nearest egbesu juju shrine and find out and stop decieving yourself........

Anyone who denies the super natural is a liar......

mazaje: Sure, I am not saying that materialims is everything, like everything it has it disadvantages, but it is part of what has made use develop and improved our standard of living. . .Cars, aiplanes, moble phones etc. . .All these things make our lives much easier and less hectic than when people were wriding on donkeys and horses. . .Now you can travel to another continet in hours unlike back in the days that it took years and months. . .Most of the wars back in the days were actually over nothing. . .Even the god of the bible requires material things. . .He tells people to donate things to him and offer things to him. . .He tells people they rob him becauser they refuse to give him part of their income as tithe. . .he tells people to donate material things to the building od his temple etc. . .The bible is full of god telling people to give him materail things and promising to bless them if they did. . .

and who told you it is because persons were materialistic that is why planes,cars etc were made??......trying to solve problems or making work easier is not the same with been materialistic.......wrong??

God provided for his people...and told them to pay tithe back then in order for the priests to be taken care of...God does not use the belongings of his people for anything..God does not need money...the monies was for the less priviledged,the priests who could not work or who had no farm lands.........you forgot to get to the root as to why contributions were made back then........

mazaje: Nope




Nope, it won't. . .

You do know you are lying...would you say the USA has never embarked on wars knowing they would gain financially from such wars??........

mazaje: We would experince more wars. . .Rebellion is what lead to the end of the roman empire that persecuted the people during the time of Jesus. . .The people kept turning the other cheek and they were trampled upon by the romans. ..Rebellion is what ended the roman empire and destroyed it. . .If people know that they will get away with trampling on you they will continue to trample on you but when they know they won't get away with it they will not try to trample on you. . .If I slap you and you turn the other cheek , I will slap you again, but if i know that you will slap me back with equal or more force, i might not slap you at all, I will call you and we will talk and settle our issues. . .

Imagine if the other persons doing the trampling had the mind of Christ would they trample on anyone in the first place...hope you know one who would be ready to turn the other cheek would not be ready to go looking for trouble.........

If both the slapper and the one being slapped have the mind of Christ there would be no wars.......NO??........

mazaje: This view that the end is near dangerous. . .After all Jesus told many people during his stay on earth that he will come during their life time. . .Its over 2000 years and all the people are dead. . .

That doesn't mean the end would not come.....2000 years is just 2 days to GOD...........

If you do not understand what Jesus meant by that statement all you can do is ask......

mazaje: Let me explain my point. . .The view that this life does not matter and that people are to pay no attention to it because they are not part of this world is actually dangerous. . .

This life matters and it is the only life that WE KNOW exist, as such we should try to understand it and try to solve most of the challenges it poses, instead of just beliving that it is just a test or a passage to another life somewhere that has never been shown to exist in reality. . .

If were are to take the morally rephrhensible approach that this life does not mattere but it is something to endure and manage because we are not of this world then, cures to diesease will not be found, scientific advancement will not be made, how to better the society and improve on our well being will not be pursued, solutions to the many problems we face in this world will not be found. . .I was watching doscivery science a year ago and a guy was trying find a solution to devastaing effects of hurricanes. . .He found out that hurricanes can be made to dissappear or their effect can be reduced if the tempreture of the region they form can be altered. . .He is now devicing a way to actualize this. . .If he succeeds, humanity will be save and the threat and destruction of hurricanesd will be greatly reduced. . .If the scientist was a christian and held the morally rephrehensible view of life that Jesoul is espousing, then he would not have cared, he would have just been thing how long before we all die and go home. . .

He would have believed he was not from this world as such he is not supposed to be involved in anything of the world. . .Recently the USA is now trying to send scientist to land on asteriods. . .asteriods are a great danger we face, if a big one lands in the world it can end all life here on earth, scientist are now looking at ways to stop them from falling on earth. . .If the they held the views of Jesoul, they would have not bothered after all god created everything an he send disater on every body, people should not be bothered about the world, they should just hang on because it will soon end and this life does not matter. . .

The belief that this life matters is why we have democracy, instead of preistly and monarchy. . .Its the reason knowledge has greatly increased. . .It is the reason for all the invention we have, it is the reason why the world is actually becoming a better place. . .back during the time og Jesus the average life span of humans was just 35 years. . .Wars were the other of the day. . .Now things have changed so much that a black man is now the head of a white majority nation which happens to be the greatest nation on earth. . During the time of Jesus, blacks were mostly slaves of whites, any where they interacted. . .

We can only improve ourselves, our lives and our environments if we believe that this life is all we have and it really matters. . .That way we will find solutions to diseases, better our economies, we will study about the laws of nature and find out how they affect us as humans so that we can find ways to alter them to our own benefit, gave every body a chance and fair shot at life etc. . .What exactly was Jesus teaching with regards to a better life here on earth?. . .The only teaching of Jesus that I agree to was the golden rule of do unto others as you will want them to do unto you, but that teaching or statement was made long before jesus was born. . .A chinese philospher(Confucius) said the same thing about 400 years before Jesus was born. . .The view that this life does not matter is reprehensible, because it is the ONLY life that we know. . .

And who ever said that this life does not matter??.....the Life was created by God

I think you must be mis-understanding Jesus' words.......the truth is to even gain everlasting life the life now has to matter to us a lot......what Jesus was emphasizing on was balance.........

True Christians can engage in problem solving but that should not amount to them been materialistic........

True christians engage in day to day activities to help mankind but we make sure that those pursuits do not lead us to being materialistic.......Jesus himself solved problems.......but how did he live his Life??.......we all know...

See these inspired words from paul...

1 corinthians 7:31

---------_______________________________
31 those who use the things of the world, as if
not engrossed in them. For this world in its
present form is passing away.
______________________________
New American Standard Bible
(©1995)
and those who use the world, as
though they did not make full use
of it; for the form of this world is
passing away.

______________________________
.........the world now is just relatively better......

Wait until nuclear war heads are unleashed and you and your computer find yourselves under the ground......

Let me tell you;;;

Man does not know where he is heading to......here today gone tomorrow........

What you see today you might not see tomorrow.........

I just can't stand it when you tell me that Jesus' view points on materialistic pursuits isn't practical anymore........it would always be practical.....


And this Life is not the only life we have...........everyone has the hope of living forever imbued in them..........

Logicboy03: Dont mind the fool. The dunce cant ask why supernatural never occurs in broad daylight under video surveilance

Fool.........

Aren't our eyes not enough to verify if there are supernatural powers or not??.....

Can you please kindly take a strole to a dibias or a babalawo's shrine and make this statement....

Keep decieving yourself......

Where were you when the egbesu boys were displaying supernatural powers..

Small time you go say na wayo them been dey play........

Imagine when someone who's unclad is shot with an ak-47 and no penetration......

What do you call that my bro??...

You need cctv to verify am??

ezme: Does the supernatural have a geographical restriction within your village? We claim to have access to the supernatural yet we don't have a better understanding of our world to show for it. I can only believe what I can understand not claims.

You're still doubting abi?...

And NO the supernatural does not have any geographical restrictions....

Anyone who denies the supernatural is a blatant liar..especially those who are nigerians......

mazaje: The world has never been as peaceful as it is now. . .Things used to be so bad back in the days, read your history book, even your bible says it all. Back in the days people just go about killing each other over nothing. Wars were a daily occurance, a stronger nation can just wake up and enslave its neighbours, their cities were built with walls all round them. . .People were always at war with each other, slavery was acceptable and normal, violence against women was also acceptable, violence against kids(stoning them to death) for wrong doing. . .Human sacrifice etc. . .There was too much vviolence in the past. . .

During the time of Jesus the average life span of the common man was about 30 years, violence was way too much. Israel was under a tyranical occupation. . .Now things have changed a lot. . .The desire for wealth is always being with man. . . And that is what has made man prosperous. . .Imagine if every body had this nonsensical view of life that it is all useless or that the world will end very soon. . .There wouldn't have been any meaningful development any where. . .

As for the teachings of Jesus standing the test of time , that it self is very false . . .Was it not Jesus that said if some one slaps you turn the other cheek?. . .His statement was made as a pacifist living under occupation. . .Can such a teaching stand the test of time in today's world?. . .

You forget that during and before the time of Jesus we had rich fellas.....even before Jesus came solomon who himself was rich had through inspiration warned against materialism......so don't tell me things have changed.....knowing that the desire to be materialistic has always been in man is enough reason why you should agree that Jesus' words can never be out-dated.........you made a false statement that nations went about waging war or killing people over nothing....some nations went to war because they were materialistic too...........na lie?......

Your USA would engage in some wars just to get rich....na lie??.......


The admonition to flee from materialism would always stand the test time my bro......


If Nations heed Jesus' words to turn the other cheek would we experience wars again and nuclear threats every now and then??.....please answer me......would we have and vikings if people actually learnt the principle of been quick to resolve problems ammicably rather than resort to reprisals??.......



Once again your views would ever remain like this since you do not believe an end is imminent........I believe an end is approaching,so my views would always be different from yours and so the views of Jesus.......