₦airaland Forum

onyfrank: @ijawkid. Yes! They dnt bow to images. Appearance is deceivn u. Jst go beyond and search dia soul, its being focus on divinity.

Are you kidding me.........you guys bow down to marys image.........don't tell me you don't because you no you do...

Goshen360: Brother Frosbel, Like someone said recently, (not sure the person now) - "being able to understand Apostle Paul is one thing on it's own when the Pauline Epistles are being read".

Now, the verse 10 - 13 you talked about is just a 'analogy' being used to make a comparison. Look at it from here:

10 There are many different languages in the world, and every language has meaning. 11 But if I don’t understand a language, I will be a foreigner to someone who speaks it, and the one who speaks it will be a foreigner to me. 12 And the same is true for you. Since you are so eager to have the special abilities the Spirit gives, seek those that will strengthen the whole church. 13 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said.

You see with the phrase, "And the same is true for you", an analogy is drawn from what is said in verse 10 and 11 to tell them why speak in a language that someone else can't understand or that you can't interpret if you don't have the gift of interpretation.

The very immediate verse 14 says, "For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying".

Wait a minute, how can I pray in tongues languages that I myself don't understand according to verse 14 and YET, MY SPIRIT IS PRAYING . The answer is in verse 2 where it says I do NOT SPEAK to nobody but unto GOD ONLY since I'm speaking by the power of the Holy Spirit that gives the gift.

According to verse 2, the ONLY way to TALK to God is IN PRAYERS which is understood in verse 14 and verses 27-28,

27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. 28 But if no one is present who can interpret, they [size=20pt]must[/size] be silent in your church meeting and [size=15pt]speak in tongues to God privately.[/size]

You need to notice the use of "SPEAK" and "PRAY"....in tongues or languages in verses selected or in the whole context. My whole essence is this, there're two different kinds of tongues languages spoken or taught in scriptures and by Apostle Paul.

1. A well known and understandable tongues languages which we read in Acts - It's called the "SIGN" tongues languages. How can someone speak a language he or she never learnt instantaneously IF SUCH LANGUAGE IS A SIGN, to empower the Apostles to spread the gospel at that time. This kind is ONLY spoken to MEN and understood by MEN as in the case of Acts of Apostles

2. There's a "PRAYING" tongues languages which NO MAN UNDERSTANDS (including the one who speaks or pray in such languages) BUT GOD according to verse 2 and 14. This kind of SUPPOSED to be ONLY used when NOT in worship places except there's one with the gift of interpretation or the one who speaks can interpret BUT when the one who SPEAKS OR PRAYS to God should do so PRIVATELY, NOT in public worship place(s) according to verse 28.

Lemme stop here for now. What we have in our churches or worship places according to Ijawkid while church people prays or speaks in tongues languages mercilessly via their loud speakers is pure ABUSE OF "PRAYING" TONGUES LANGUAGES. It's unscriptural and MUST not be encouraged. Apostle Paul says, if there's not to interpret in worship places, the speakers MUST keep quiet and do that praying or speaking to God PRIVATELY. In other words, praying or speaking in tongues is IRRELEVANT in worship places when NO ONE UNDERSTAND but PROPHECY DOES because prophecy is speaking in languages understood by ALL, the WHOLE CHURCH and the WHOLE CHURCH is edified; unlike tongues that edifies ONLY THE SPEAKER.

My bro I've got one question for you.......

:::::::

Why was the gift of speaking in tongues given to the early christians??......we know before pentecost 33 c.e that gift was not available to servants of God.............why was it pertinent that that gift be given to the 1st century christians??....if we can get to the root of the reason for speaking in tongues in the first place then we can further find out if that gift is still needed today or wether persons who claim to speak in tongues today actually are filled with the holy spirit..........

...........

Because all I see today is gibberish upon gibberish.....sorry to say that my bro............

onyfrank: @ijawkid.
Catholics neva bow to image ok.
What i believe image does to catholics when sightd one is to raise their consciousness beyond wat is seen.
I knw u stl hav d pictures of a luv one which weneva u look, u remember sumtn byond d pix.
So it is written, 'let d brotherly luv continues, old thins hav passd away. . ., hail mary ful of grace."

Are you denying catholics don't bow down to marys image??......eh??

You want pictures or what??.........

onyfrank: If you can recite 'the Lord is my shepherd. . . ,' 'now weapon fashion against me. . .,' and al d bible passages as prayer, y then do u condemn hail Mary, is it no in the scripture? Bear in mind that scriptures was written by d influence of d holy spirit. Bside dat Elizabeth did said dat kus she was filled with holy spirit. Luk 1vs41

Did the scrÍptures in the first place tell us to recite verbatim praye®s and words written in it??...........

Besides why should people recite the words of elizabeth to mary??......is it a pre-requisite for gaining ete®nal life??......

Hailing mary and bowing down to her image has nothing to do with christianity..........I was hoping that you would have added that elizabeth carved marys image and bowed down to it while she said those words.........

Logicboy03: Yaweh loves the attention


https://i.imgur.com/2SrR18r.jpg

The same way your parents craved or maybe still crave(that's If you've not been ostracized ..lol) for your attention......

Rufex07: Hail Mary, full of grace the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus... Holy Mary, Mother of God pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

The bolded is gibberish...........

My question to acclaimed tongue speakers today is why have they chosen to swim in and stick to the unknown, incoherent, tongues??.....why can't they just use the gift of speaking in tongues(that's if they really have the gift) to spread the goodnews like never before....why can't I just see a yoruba or ibo man who has never heard or spoken the ijaw language before in his life ,walk up to and old ijaw woman in the village and deliver Gods message in Ijaw ..........why??......why must it be the gibberish I hear from the loud speakers of churches today...why??.....I don tire oooo.......

Logicboy03:


Na so e pain you?

Why would you just call me gay out of the blue?

Why would you call Yahweh an attention love peddler out of the blues??....you need to check your head......

Bélla3: i give up
[img]http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1313178415025.jpg[/img]

Lol........na to give up o my sister......

Joagbaje: Read your bible. He will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Yes...and what does the lake of fire signify??......living forever??......smh!!!....

Joagbaje: You are the ignorant one here. Just study the bible and you will be ok. Satan will first be thrown into bottomless pit for a thousand year while christ reign with me on earth. After the thousand years . Satan will be released and he will deceive the world again raising a rebellious army. All this will be allowed by God just to give man opportunity to make right decision and to justify his anger on the rebellious.

I know satan would be thrown into the abyss for a thousand years.....then after that what happens??.......the lake of fire is the end point isn't it?? What would happen to satan in that lake of fire??....he would be living forever??....he would also be granted the gift of immortality??.....start answering oooo.....

Joagbaje: Revelation 20:7-10
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



Well if you look at the highlighted part of the scripture above you can correct yourself . The fire is everlasting

Would death and hell also be tormented day and night??...........why don't your read the scriptures completely to get the full import of what john for saw in the book of revelations....learn to read the bible completely and stop propagating gibberish..........

Just tell me exactly how death and hell,satan,the wild beast and co.. would be tormented day and night...........

Go and learn about the judgement of everlasting fire sodom and gomorrah under went and then come back here to explain what the scriptures really mean when it uses the expression everlasting fire ...............

babaearly: how did you know God didnt talk to any of the pope or priest to start creating idols? it must be written down in the bible for you to believe?

What is this garbage??.......

Nonsense!!!!......smh......

Logicboy03: What is the use of talking to god when he knows what you want? To beg?


No wonder. He loves being begged. Only a psychopath would have angels singing to him everyday. Your god is an attention LovePeddler

While you are a freaking gay.......

Joagbaje: Death does not mean annihilation . Death is separation . Physical death is separation from the body . Spiritual death is banishment and separation from God

Isn't satan already banished and seperated from God??what further banishment does hÉ need??......

the hell fire dogma has indeed gotten deep into you guys that you have to doubt if satan would be killed and destroyed for all eternity........the lake of fire means complete and total death(destruction)......don't forget that death itself would be thrown into that fire.........

tintingz: see how this one dey change the meaning of hell. . . .abi make i ask wikipedia? Ok let see what it says

She'ol
(pron.: /ˈʃiːoʊl/
SHEE-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/
SHEE-əl; Hebrew לֹואְׁש
Šʾôl), translated as
"grave", "pit", or "abode
of the dead", is the Old
Testament/Hebrew
Bible's underworld, a
place of darkness to
which all the dead go ,
both the righteous and
the unrighteous,
regardless of the moral
choices made in life, a
place of stillness and
darkness cut off from
God.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

And btw christians believe Jesus went to HELL to collect the key of HELL GATE. . . .or am i wrong?

The bolded is a HOAX....never read such rubbish in the scriptures........

alexleo: NONSENSE!!!! GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN.

Lol..........

1 peter 4 :6...in no way suggests that literally dead persons could be preached to...........only the figurative dead ones can be preached to...those who are ungodly.......they can only be made alive through Christ..

Scriptures have consistently helped us see that the physically dead man is conscious of nothing at all...............can't be preaÇhed to........neither can the repent and be baptized........

chukwudi44: You people should be honest for once.That passage explicitly tells us they were the spirit of those who died during Noah's flood when only eight people were saved by water.Was it angels that Noah preaced to? Was it angels that died during Noa's flood?
I tire for unaooo.Even verse 6 of chapter 4 tells us why the good news was preached to those who are now dead.

The spirit of those who die return to God(the giver of it) and not stored up in purgatory............that verse explicitly says spirits who were disobedient,not spirit of those who died who were disobedient..............

Stop forcing the useless doctrine of purgatory into that verse..................it contradicts the firmly established doctrine of ressurection and what really happens to man when he died........

Just use another verse either from genesis that would ryhme with your assertions.....from the bOok of genesis we read of the eight souls that survived and all who died in the deluge........genesis never for once told us of the spirits of those who died being locked up in prison..................spiritual prisons were always meant for the demons and not for humans...........


Even when Jesus made statements about noahs day he never told us that when the flood came and swept the wicked away,that the spirits of these dead ones were locked in prison for Jesus to later preach to them....

Matthew 24:37-39
________________________________
37 As it was in the days
of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son
of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood,
people were eating and drinking, marrying and
giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered
the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what
would happen until the flood came and took
them all away. That is how it will be at the
coming of the Son of Man
________________________________


You can't hold on to 1 peter 3:19-20 to prove that it was the spirit of the dead that were in prison.....use other scriptures to support your notion........oya!!!!..........

Reyginus: Ijawkid, are you playing games with me or you're serious? I don't get why you're deliberately finding it hard to appreciate the subordinate with the main clause. It's not a crime to claim you don't understand the verse. You can take your time. Please, this is a discussion, let's be sincere with ourselves.

I'm not playing any games.....all I'm doing is letting the bible interprete itself......can you do the same??..........can you support your understanding of 1 peter 3:20 with other scriptures??....can you??...........the crime here is when you pick up just one verse in the bible to explain a doctrine that contradicts the whole bible...........

Reyginus: Good News Bible Version.
Maybe, we have to try the NLT bible version then.
From NLT
' Those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowing in that terrible flood'.
The reference here is still on the people who disobeyed the instructions God gave Noah to pass on.

It still does not say it was the spirit of those who disobeyed(spirit of the dead)...........it simply says spirits who were disobedient.........

New Living Translation (NLT)
19 So he went and preached to the spirits in
prison—

Precept upon precept from the scriptures has clearly shown that only the wicked demons(spirits) or fallen angels that came down during noahs day were locked up in dense darkness(prison).......no where else in the scripture supports the notion that the spirits of those who were destroyed by the flood during noahs day were kept in some limbo..............
---------------------------------------------------------
If you can clearly show us from that verse that it was the spirit of those who disobeyed(spirit of the dead) that were stored up in prison and not already existing spirit creatures who disobeyed I'll appreciate it.............

Reyginus: No, Ijawkid. That I defined the soul as '..the state of existence..' doesn't entail what you're insinuating. Certainly not.
I think it's time I quote verse 20
'These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that noah was building his boat.
Let's be sincere please. What do you understand by the first sentence in that verse?

Which bible re-endition has the bolded??........

Which translation are you quoting from??......

I don't think any of the bible translations tells us that it was the spirit of those who had not obeyed God....it simply tells us about spirits who were disobedient and not the spirit of those who were disobedient......

Hope you can spot the difference??.........

Logicboy we know you are a free man...can you please return to nigeria....!!!!!........leave the white mans abode and get you back home...........you are the most deluded slave if you still have not noticed......you've got shackles all over you.....

Reyginus: Ijawkid, you should endeavour look inbetween the lines. The word 'soul' as used in my definition, tends to describe an entity, the state of existence.
A look at the second information from verse 20, tells us the inhabitants of this prison. Humans.
When we die, according to the bible, our spirits neither go to purgatory nor to God, but wait for judgement.

ok so you mean to understand that the souls in your definition are those who had not died but were kept alive somewhere in some confined system??..verse 20 in no way tells us that the inhabitants of the prison peter mentioned are humans....it sure says its inhabitants are spirits.....

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
New International Version (NIV)
6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

-----------------
it is clear where all spirits return to or go to after a man dies.....there isnt any interim abode were the spirits of humans go to reside so as to be refined or preached to.....

At 1 Peter 3:19, 20 the Greek word for “spirits” is pneu′ma·sin, while the word rendered “souls” is psy·khai′.again The “spirits” were not disembodied souls but disobedient angels; while the “souls” in verse 20 referred to living people, humans, Noah and his household,the 8 who survived....

wicked persons(humans) who disobeyed God during noahs day met there end(destroyed by the deluge) and were not stored in a prison....it was the disobedient spirits(wicked angels) who were imprisoned so to speak and not humans.....

my effort here is to help you see that it wasnt humans or the souls of humans that were locked up in prison...

it is only in a country like 9ja that miscreants after causing so much mayhem and foolishness and heart aches would demand for cash from the government.....only in nigeria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....bokoharam ona dey craze...

mazaje: Let me not derail this thread. . .It is about Dawkins and his opinions. . .

Here is my own final input. . .Dawkins is deluded. . . I am disappointed in him after watching this interview. I am not his fan any way. With the vigour and passion with which he supports evolution as a "fact" one will think he will be able to answer simple questions and offer a better explanation that he did. . .Instead he was unable to answer simple questions and was rattled by the very simple questions he was asked. . .He was sincere by stating he did not know when he didn't but over all I think he is deluded and gave a very poor interview. . .

Hmmmmm.

Mr_Anony: Oh my God, No! This is so wrong!..........you have just succeeded in panel-beating scripture mercilessly!

Lmao........anony run for your life......okey has gone cwazy.......lol............

Rich4god: Now this got me cracking.... ... I thought you said you were once a catholic. The last time I checked, catholics didnt realy define purgatory as a place, but rather a STATE.

Its defined as either a state or place........

Reyginus: Purgatory is a place, according to the catholic church, where souls that are not perfect are tormented before they gain perfection and access into God's kingdom, from intercession of the brethrens.

............did peter tell us that it was disembodied souls that were in prison or spirits??........

Remember for purgatory to hold in the first place we have to know who or what are in that prison..............

A little question for you:::...when we die according to the scriptures where does the spirit of man(either bad or good) go to??........God or purgatory??........

Reyginus: Ijawkid, let's not base that verse on mere assumptions please. I want us to discuss. I would also like you to pretend that you don't believe nor disbelief the purgatory concept. Let's analyse it bit by bit. I really want to understand this purgatory concept. Can you now explain the verse ,this time around, from a different angle.

My comments were not based on assumptions.......that is why I asked ::: WHAT is purgatory??........

Can you define what purgatory is??........

Reyginus: Lovely@truthislight. I get your point. But the problem of why he has to go preach to the imprisoned spirits is still not clear to me. That's the crux of the matter for me. Another thing is, if we agree it serves the purpose of purifying them for the kingdom of God, we have indirectly accepted the concept of purgatory. If on the other hand, we insist it is not for the good of the kingdom, where then is the reasom. I really want to know.

what does the purgatory teach??.....isnt it about the souls of dead persons being stored up in some kinda prison??....do you agree that the spirits Jesus preached to as recorded in 1 peter wasn't the souls of dead people as the teaching of purgatory would claim??.....

and what was preached to those spirits if you insist must definitly have been the message of judgement.....chikena......Jesus must have told the disobedient spirit creatures that ""oboy ona destruction don near well well o...make ona ready"".....

m.k.o2005:
I like your reply ! It's like you are a calm person. Please can you show me where it is written in the bible that you should do God's work as a pauper or that rich people don't go to heaven or dnt do God's work ? Let us start from there sir.
HELL is not for that rich/wealthy born again fellow who has accepted Christ and his teachings as heaven is not for that poor person who has rejected Christ and his teachings !
God help us

I'm talking about balance my bro........I would like you to look at the lives of the apostles of Jesus who took the lead in spear heading the work of Christ and comparing it with the extravagance of the daddy G.O under consideration............

How would you rate the apostles from the scriptures.........

Were they all out for money??.....did they accrue material wealth from doing the work of Christ??...............

vislabraye: The wealthy daddy would help them give it to the poor
I don't think he cajoled them. People are stinking rich.

Are the hands of the donors amputated so as to hinder them from giving to the poor directly??...........or are they kids that can't identify the poor in the church that they need daddy G.O to help them do that??.......

That man cajoled them at some point..............