₦airaland Forum

Zikkyy: No mind them jare. some are always looking for one thing or the other to condemn just because they don't like that activity.

Not because we don't like it,its because scriptural principles don't support it..........I know you zikky can do anything and claim you are serving God with it..............if you like smoke and push drugs na you sabi.........

Mr_Anony: Lol, my dear friend, you are drawing false parallels again. The Holy Spirit is a Spirit of self-control, it doesn't possess people. Any drug that makes a person lack self-control can simply not be of God.

Good you noted what the apostles dealt with. The rest of your talk is speculatory because you don't know if the gentiles had tattoos and whether or not they kept having tattoos. The bible is silent on this.
As for what is wrong with tattoos; Yes they were originally done as part of idol worship and that is why God told the Israelites not to do them. . . . but today, tattoos can be done for fun/body decoration with absolutely nothing fetish to it.

So tattoos can be done for fun/body decoration makes tattoos now acceptable in the eyes of GOd(no longer pagan)??....talking about one being speculatory I think you're the culprit here..............

I heard you say the holy spirit is a spirit of selfcontrol right when talking about the use of hard drugs??....can you please open the bible and show me where it says taking any hard drugs that would make one not have self control is bad............let me ask you the same unscriptural questions you've been asking.......


if you and other tattoo advocates had self control you should have known that self control is that quality that would make a servant of GOD not covet pagan practices and imbibe them...........

Zikkyy: and what's wrong with smoking marijuana and cocaine

Chineke!!!!!!!......zikky you again...??...............u dey ask me this kin question??..........

Mr_Anony: Of course I have read that scripture.....however, I still don't see how tattoos are a sin from it. God tells us to be separate to Him, and not to act like the sinners yes. God is holy and we are called to holiness.

I agree to all these but what I am not seeing is how tattoos are sinful other than you feel it is sinful.

Yes I know the origin of tattoos but then I hold that the origin of a thing does not make such a thing bad.
For instance the origin of the olympics was a festival to Greek gods and godesses. Is it therefore wrong for Christians to partake in olympic sport because the origin came from idol worship?

Oh so you know the origin of tattoos.......good to know.............Gods laws as regards his servants repudiating or not imbibing pagan customs and practices has not changed that is why that principle in 2 corinthians stands..................the reason(because its pagan) why God gave the laws prohibiting the isrealites from having tattoos has not changed.................because Jesus has died for us does not give us the leverage to do what ever we like(even embracing pagan practices that God never liked)....................if taTtoos had it start in recent times,then this whole discussion would have been a hard one.....tattoos have always been repudiated by Gods people including the early christians.........

Bidam: @Ijawkid i don read your storybook and i don here you..but one thing is clear we might disagree on doctrinal issue..but the central focus of the bible is Jesus Christ Our Lord and Personal savior just like a poster mentioned Yeshua the messiah..If u don't agree and believe He is your Lord and Savior..there is no basis arguing with you in the first place.

I agree Jesus is the messiah,and the savior Yahweh sent to redeem mankind..........and I agree Jesus is my Lord.......never have I argued that........what I will not stand is when you falsely claim Jesus is the same as his Father who sent him(modalism)........what I won't stand is when you say Jesus is equal to his GOD and Father(trinity).................

Bidam: lol..the foolishness of God is wiser than men( 1 cor 1 :25).. I will show you a scripture in revelation that will shock and keep all of you quiet forever..lemme go work come back. God is not multipersonal but multifaceted and multidimensional in wisdom.

Heheheheh....modalism at work.........

i.chuka:
Lol
B like say na sapele water dey talk dis early morning.

Lol...na only person wey drink sapele water go gree say the one true GOD na multipersonal being.......only sapele water can do that to ones mind...............

Bidam: barristers agreed Jesus is a God..boomark agrees He is Lord..do you ijawkid agree ?

No be since I agree say Jesus was called a GOD.....??.......what we have been wanting to make you agree is that Jesus isn't the one true GOD(John 17:3).........that he isn't an equal with his GOD..........that he is less than the almighty GOD who is his Father and also our Father............you are the one fighting with truths and not me........I have long ago agreed that Jesus is my Lord from 1 corinthians 11:3...,but would you agree that Yahweh is the LORD of Jesus even after reading that same 1 ccorinthians 11:3??........instead you've been running around saying that Jesus is equal to Yahweh his LORD and GOD and contradicting yourself right, left ,back, front and center............you are the one remaining to accept scriptural truths.....

Bidam: @ijawkid..the point is not about what perspective you interprete scriptures..there is One faith, one baptism, one Lord..barristers, plappville,boomark believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal savior? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Personal Savior Pls answer the queshion..ayam waiting....

Yes ...!!!!!!!.........I believe Jesus was sent as savior to redeem me...........you dey hear me??.................but don't neglect Yahweh the one true GOD who sent the Jesus....u dey hear me again??.........

i.chuka:
Lol
Not funny ooh,Sis.

Ichuka sincerely speaking this is what you guys have turned GOD into........you guys have turned .God to be like the noob saibot of mortal kombat......

Mr_Anony: Lololololol............actually it means the human body literally. However it is only used in reference to s[color=#000000]exu[/color]al immorality. (1 Corinthians 6:13-20)

Hmmm......can you please ponder over this scripture......when you knw the origin of tattoos you can then find out if it is something God likes....

2 corinthians 6:15-18

2 Corinthians 6:15-18
Amplified Bible (AMP)
15 What harmony can there be between Christ
and Belial [the devil]? Or what has a believer
in common with an unbeliever?
16 What agreement [can there be between] a
temple of God and idols? For we are the
temple of the living God; even as God said, I
will dwell in and with and among them and will
walk in and with and among them, and I will be
their God, and they shall be My people.
17 So, come out from among [unbelievers], and
separate (sever) yourselves from them, says
the Lord, and touch not [any] unclean thing;
then I will receive you kindly and treat you
with favor,
18 And I will be a Father to you, and you shall
be My sons and daughters, says the Lord
Almighty.
_______________________________

Knowing the origin of tattoos should let a christian know if it is still something that God detests or not..................

While we are free from the mosaic law we are still slaves to GOD....

Galatians 5:13....
New International Version (©1984)
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But
do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful
nature; rather, serve one another in love.

Logicboy03: I would ask you the relevance of Paul's statement on circumcision.


Not all surgeries are necessary

Can you please tell me and let's discuss it....??...............

Mr_Anony: Lol, so food is now the problem abi? I can also talk about circumcision as well. The point is that the early church didn't burden the Gentiles with any Mosaic Laws except sexual immorality and eating of blood i.e. strangled animals and food offered to idols (Acts 15).

"....Since we have heard that certain persons who have gone out from us, though with no instructions from us, have said things to disturb you and have unsettled your minds, we have decided unanimously to choose representatives and send them to you, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."
Acts 15:24-29

Notice that there is no talk of tattoos there at all. Where are you getting your doctrine from?

I bet smoking of marijuana and cocaine was mentioned there too...right??..........anony bible principles should guide your perception as to what Christ approves or not.....the drawing of tattoos have always been around and not one of Gods servant(except the crazy ones) would go have tattoos................the apostle wouldn't have mentioned tattoos because infact no brother or sister had any(except maybe the gentiles who embraced Christ who already had tattoos)......common sense along with the principles from the scriptures made them know tattoos were worthless and ungodly..........the apostles stressed on issues that were more pressing and affecting the church:::::
1....Food sacrificed to idols(FOOD)...
2....Abstaining from blood.....
3...IMmorality.....

______________________________

So you were expecting the apostles to mention tattoos.....smh!!!!!.......no christian back then had tattoos....................they were @ least saner than the professed christians we have now..................

plappville: To see that Yahweh and Jesus are like this in the below picture?

Lmao..............they've turned God into a multi-personal being and one suffering from multi personality disorder.............smh!......

plappville: God Get Father? God dey pray to himself?? abi you dey contradict yourself??

Bidam is one who loves modalism so much.......he keeps contradicting and debunking himself...........if you ask am who him dey worship now him fit no know the answer..

Bidam: keep fooling your sheoples..The Creator is also LORD IN SCRIPTURES. .10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11[b] I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
[/b]

Isa 43:14-15
14[b] Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
[/b]
Isa 44:6
6[b] Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.[/b]

Bidam what is The almighty Gods name??........

I had explained what Yahweh being thÉ only savior means but you never pay attention...............Yahweh works out the salvation of his people through his prophets,servants,messengers,and son.............because no one can see Yahweh and LIVE,he sends emissaries...........so Yahweh being the orchestrator and sender of his se®vants to save his people remains the one chief savior........how you can't get this point bewilders me.................dÍd I hear you quote isaiah 43:10 where the almighty calls someone my ""servant??.....I hope you know Jesus falls under that category.......he is the servant of the almighty GOD.............

Bidam: John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


1 John 3:16
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

The verse in John says that God gave His son but in 1 John it says that God gave himself. Which is it? Who came to die? Did God die? Did His son die?

When we understand that God is a Spirit and that He came in flesh helps us understand the verses. God did not die. The Son of God died. The manifestation of God died. The flesh of God died. There is a difference between the flesh and spirit. God has a Spirit nature and a flesh nature. Everyone that is born again also has a Spirit nature and was born with a human nature.

God is a Spirit but added a human nature when he came in flesh. Not another person but simply a revealing of God in human flesh!

1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


The fact is that God himself came in flesh and died on a tree for our sins. It was not another person but simply God loving His own creation enough to come Himself and die!

Bidam I'm done with you......your whole theology is based on verses that have been exposed to be a shenanigan.........you are not a sincere fellow..........I can't believe that after much discusion you are still quoting 1 john 3:16 and also 1 timothy 3;16........smh!!!!!...............the rendering of those verses are false by the KJV......do your research and stop this charade.............

Do you know that the expression ""of GOD"" was never found in the original texts of 1 john 3:16??.....it was an addition by the KJV renderers in order for there false claim that it was GOD himself who came to die to stand..........and persons like bidam have tied there whole life to that LIE................

Once more I would quote from more sincere renderers.......oya read again ooo......

____________________________
New International Version (©1984)
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ
laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay
down our lives for our brothers.
____________________________
New Living Translation (©2007)
We know what real love is because Jesus gave
up his life for us. So we also ought to give up
our lives for our brothers and sisters.
___________________________
English Standard Version (©2001)
By this we know love, that he laid down his life
for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for
the brothers.
____________________________
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
We know love by this, that He laid down His
life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives
for the brethren.
____________________________
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
This is how we have come to know love: He laid
down His life for us. We should also lay down
our lives for our brothers.

___________________________
International Standard Version (©2012)
This is how we have come to know love: the
Messiah[/b]gave his life for us. We, too, ought to
give our lives for our brothers.
___________________________
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
We understand what love is when we realize
that [b]Christ gave his life for us. That means we
must give our lives for other believers.
_____________________________

Weymouth New Testament
We know what love is--through Christ's having
laid down His life on our behalf; and in the
same way we ought to lay down our lives for
our brother men.
____________________________
Good News Translation (GNT)
16 This is how we know what love is: Christ
gave his life for us. We too, then, ought to give
our lives for others!
_____________________________

1 John 3:16
Expanded Bible (EXB)
16 This is how we know what real love is:
·Jesus [L he] ·gave [laid down] his life for us
[John 15:13]. So we should ·give [lay down] our
lives for our brothers and sisters [C fellow
believers; John 15:12].

Bidam: . you don't just take a particular verse and read it to understand the whole bible..the bible is like a puzzle..you have to connect scriptures with scriptures to grasp the full import of what God is saying..Jesus is the wisdom and the power of God( I COR 1:15) WHO became flesh( john 1 :14) making him the express image of the Father(COL 1:15)..AN IMAGE IS A REPRODUCTION OF THE FORM OF A PERSON OR OBJECT, ESPECIALLY A SCULPTURED LIKENESS(free online dictionary,thesaurus).For no man has seen God at anytime 'T'but God the One and Only, Who is at the Father's side, has made him known( john 1 :14 NIV).So i am not wrong in calling Jesus the Almighty God(Rev 1:8)..look @ 1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The fact is that God himself came in flesh and died on a tree for our sins. It was not another person but simply God loving His own creation enough to come Himself and die!

God is one in number. He said it.

I can't belÍeve you would say Jesus being the image of God means he is then the almighty GOD.....Bidam has it gotten to that??.......uh??.........you forgot so fast that we and Jesus are all images of GOD.....you forgotten??.........in other words you are saying you and me are the almighty GOD........right??.............you rightly defined who or what an IMAGE is,but went further to contradict yourself........is the image of something the same as the original??..................we are all images of God,makes us not the almighty GOD or the same as the almighty GOD...........Jesus being the image of GOd simply shows he was created by GOD.....simple and short.............means Jesus isn't the original but a photocopy just like we all are..................and you are still quoting 1 timothy 3:16 from the KJV.....bidam do you really wanna learn at all or you just want to stubbornly hold on to a doctrine that has been debunked by even yourself............??...........this is you contradicting and debunking yourself...
You said::::
1.......No man has seen GOD,but his only begotten son hath explained Him.......then you go around debunking and contradicting yourself by saying,the Jesus that was sent to explain who GOD is ,is now the GOD who it is impossible for any man to see..........have you forgotten that no man can see GOD and live.....??.......Jesus is not the almighty GOD,but the servant and son of GOD..........

2.....You agreed GOD cannot and has never died(it is impossible for GOD to die)......but you go back to contradict yourself by quoting the spuriously rendered 1 timothy 3:16 from the KJV to desperately prove that the almighty GOD was seen and that he died.....what an utter blasphemy!!!!!!...............your insincerity has landed you to the point where God has turned to some destructible element........

3.....You openly said and agreed Jesus is the image of GOD(just like us ooooo).....but debunked and contradicted yourself by saying being the image of GOD means been equal with GOD and the same with GOD.........how can the image of something be the same or equal to the original??..............bidam you are making me shake my head for you.............
_______________________________
Even after opening scriptures to clearly show that right there in the heavens Jesus and his GOD are 2 seperate persons and that the Father is the GOD of Jesus,you still insist to blind fold your eyes just to hold on to modalism................even after prÓving that Jesus is Gods sÉrvant you still choose to believe he is equal with GOD.........

After quoting 1 john 4:14 you still insist it was GOD himself who came to die......smh!!!!........

You are absolutely disingenious.........!!!!!!!..........and not a focusÉd bible student.........

Before I leave you I wÓuld like to remind you that Jesus does not even know when he is coming back but only his GOD and Father knows..........................you can try to figure out why ..............if you try to lie about why Jesus does not know when he is coming back but only GOD knows and you really wanna know and uphold truths go and read revelation 1:1...................

Pastor AIO: He makes the point a little later about Matthew 24:36. The earliest copies read that No one knows the hour of Jesus return Not even the Angels in Heaven, Not the Son, Only the Father knows.

This is obviously uncomfortable for those who consider the Son as Identical with the father. How can the father know but the Son not know. KJV solves this problem by a simple act of omission. KJV goes:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

No mention of the son not knowing.

Other translations that some KJV adherents like to bash such as NIV quote it more properly:

New International Version (©1984)
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Others are more faithful to the original:



English Standard Version (©2001)
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

.

I never took notice of this.........AIO thank you o...........

Bidam: this is where i don't agree with the poster concerning JESUS NOT BEING A SAVIOR SCRIPTURES ARE CLEAR ON THAT..
MAT 1: [21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
[22] Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
[23] Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
[24] Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
[25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

The OP is not saying Je§us isn't a savior.....all the OP is saying is that Yahweh(The GOD and FATHER of Jesus) is the Saviors of all saviors..........Yahweh ochestrates the means
By which he saves his people.......and all he does is send his messengers to carry out his saving plan§.............many saviors had existed bÉfore even Jesus came to the earth.........
Moses,Joshua etc.........they were all saviors that Yahweh raised up to lead and redeem his people.............Jesus is the chief of all the appointed saviors of Gods people(Jesus' job was on a much grander scale).......Yahweh appointed and annointed Jesus for the redeeming Job...........Yahweh been the source for the salvation of all makes Him the over all SAVIOR............

Look at a scriptural example of A savior that existed before Jesus' coming to the earth....

Judges 3:15
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then the people of Israel cried out to the
LORD for help. The LORD sent a savior to
rescue them. It was Ehud, a left-handed man
from the tribe of Benjamin. (Ehud was the son
of Gera.) The people sent him with their tax
payment to King Eglon of Moab.
_____________________________

Look at how Jesus was sent too as a savior for Gods people.....



1 john 4:14
New Living Translation (©2007)
Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes
and now testify that the Father sent his Son
to be the Savior of the world.
___________________________

Do you see that Jesus was sent,was appointed to save the world??....Yahweh who does the choosing,sending and annointing is the OGA of saviors......simple!!!!!!.......

plappville: Ok sir, this is good to know He has/had a Father, this means He is not The Father abi?

Lol........bidam would soon tell you Jesus is the Father.....e never tay wey him say the Father name na Jesus too.....

Bidam: Actually you are the one getting confused. i never said Jesus is different from the FATHER..INFACT I SAID JESUS IS THE SAME WITH THE FATHER..NOT GREATER BUT SAME..JUST CHILL WE THEY GO SOMEWHERE. Its you guys that are saying they are different..just because they bear different names and titles.. in fact Jesus said I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE..HE CAME FROM THE FATHER SO HOW CAN HE BE DIFFERENT?

We are also one with Jesus...have you forgotten??.....please read john 17:22 to the end.......Jesus is not the same with his Father....why can't you grasp this simple truth..........bidam even with all the scriptures quoted you still cling to the erroneous stance that Jesus is the same with the Father.........don't be dubious o my freind.....e no good @ all...........



Jesus said ;::::: for I am going my way to the Father and the father is greater than I am............

BIDAM na wa for you..............

musKeeto: Lol, is this a logicboy and anony tag team? Wonders shall never end...

Yes o.....the tag go tight well well.....see how logicboy dey give me the symbolic meaning of ""your body is the temple of GOD"".............everybody clap for logicboy..........

Logicboy03: See this bible remixer! What is the difference between a scar and a tattoo? My friend has a scar from an iron that looks like a tattoo! Or the Yoruba people that have tribal marks will go to hell abi?


When they say "our body is the temple of the lord", it is not literal. It doesnt mean the human body, rather what we do with our lives.

If it was literal, people with scars, tribal marks, scars from surgeries that they chose etc, are now evil

Scars from surgeries and accidents are not inclusive in this discussion...because they are inevitable.....we cannÓt call scars gotten from accidents or surgerÍes tattoos....can we??..........but going to mutilate ones flesh or skin for shakara sake or for some reckless paganistic reasons is something detestable to GOD...................

I under§tant the symbolic meaning of our body being the temple of GOD........aÑd that meaning is congruent with one who claims to be following Christ not pursuing or bÉen fashioned after the world........what a christians does with his life should allign with scriptural principles......tattoos have always being a practice of the pagans....it has never for once had any connection with servants of GOD .......that is why GOD commanded the isrealites not to get tattoos.......it does not in anyway glorify GOD .................Ño apostle or a 1st century chrÍstian would have had the thoÙght of getting a tattoo............

May I ask yoÙ.........what's the reason behinÐ the yorubas having tribal marks??.......

Mr_Anony: Lol, Ever heard of what is called a non-sequitor? Equating na[color=#000000]kedne[/color]ss to killing of twins just doesn't follow.

And may I join in this discussion by saying equating FOOD with body mutilation or tattooing doesn't fit too.....because you have been using pauls mention of food to drive home your point why a christian getting a tattoo isn't wrong......food is a staple commodity tatto-ing is not....infact tattooing is useless...........there isn't any moral ground that would justify a christian with a complete bible trained conscience to go get tattoos........
No early 1st century Christian would run to go get tattoos thinking God would like it......only pagans drew tattoos on the bodies........


......Jesus dying for us does not mean we should do what ever we like thinking its all gonna bring praise to GOD.........our Body is so much important to GOD......we live for GOD and for his son and not for our selfish cravings.......

poopli: Black people are the worst race of people.

black people look like animals, behave like animals and so undeveloped

God could have created me white but decided to create me black

If God really created me, then he really made a silly mistake.

I never asked for life and i hate God for creating me, but more especially, i hate God for creating me Black.

I will never forgive God for that.

He can take his stupid life away from me, i dont care and i dont want to live the stupid world he created anymore.

I will not kill myself though, i am stronger than that

But if God created me, then i hate him for creating me.

Are you on some hard drugs??........

Bidam: I agree totally with you bro... but my friends here tend to disagree probably due to wrong indoctrination...you are blessed.

What do you agree with the poster??.........the poster was able to know that Yahweh and Yehshua are 2 distinct persons and that one is greater than the other......do you believe that??......you just dey agree.......

The poster was prudently able to understand that YAHweh is the over all creator and ruler,something you've been running away from.......the poster also. Showed that the son answers a different name from the Father,unlike you who said previously that the Fathers name is JESUS.(Bidam but na wa for you ooo)..... ....the poster and you are not on the same path........

wahala dey ooooooooo.........

i.chuka:
Dude you 4got to add verse17-18 in Colossians you quoted.Colossian1 is talking about Christ been the first to Resurrect from the dead.
Proverbs8 talks about Wisdom,refering to Wisdom as a SHE(Proverbs8:1-2)

Would u deny that verses 22-30 of proverbs 8 wasn't talking about Jesus??.........

And I agree colossians 1:17-18 did say Jesus is firstborn from the dead,which conveys the same meaning with Jesus being the firstborn of all creation.....

Jesus was the first to ressurect and would be the agent through which Yahweh would ressurect aLl other persons...........Jesus is part of the family or group of those who died and who experienced ressurection but the first of that group(Jesus didn't evade death to later be called firstborn from the dead)...........the same with Jesus being the firstborn of all creation.....Jesus is the one person Yahweh created directly and the first of Yahwehs creative works,then Jesus became the agent through which Yahweh created all other things.......Jesus is part of the group of the created,but the first of them all.............the bible explains itself...............

Bidam: .you are really a deluded fellow this is what you said above and the scriptures you quoted are in no way showing the existence of Christ before he could take part in creative works..whateva that is..that was why i asked you whether you believe in the trinity in the other thread.

I don't believe in the trinity.........all I am saying is that Jesus is the first born of GODS creation....he is part of the family of creation but the first....can't you get the point??.................its glaring...........Yahweh created or formed Jesus then Jesus became an agent through which God created other things.............those scriptures especially colossians 1:15-16 and proverbs 8:22-30 butresses these points..............

Bidam: Thank God you agree on the emboldened at least we are going somewhere...but why contradict your self again in the next line..na wa for you sha..wetin be the meaning of alpha and omega? abeg go check dictionary..make you come back make we yarn. stop harping on rev 1:1..like i said before in the other thread you keep on reading the bible like a newspaper.. in that verse [b]Jesus Christ is the revealed WORD OF GOD [/b]which was shown to his servants(john,peter,paul and others).

I am not contradicting myself..........for every time the titles ""alpha and omega"" or ""first and last "" was used,reasons were tagged to it...............Jesus was called first and last in the book of revelations as regards his death and ressurection and nothing more........the Father was called alpha and omega as regards his being the almighty GOD(the GOD of all Gods which the whole OT testifies to)........if you don't make this clear distinctions you would be the one contradicting yourself and not me................................

Bidam: could you pls explain this with a scriptural backing?

Revelation 3:14,the proverbs eni quoted,colossians 1:15.........etc........

Jesus is the firstborn of and the beginning of of Gods creation........na lie??.........

Jesus is part of the Family of creation.......we all(including Jesus) stem from one origin or source,and that source is the Father.......Jesus had a beginning.....only one who is not sincere would run away from this point.......Jesus was begotten..........

Read this verse in hebrews 2:11......

11 [L For indeed]
·Jesus, [L the one]
who makes people
holy, and those who
are made holy ·are
from the same family
[or have [b]the same
Father; or have one
origi[/b]n; L are all from
one]. ·So [For this
reason] he is not
ashamed to call them
his brothers and
sisters.
________________________________

We are all products of the Father........only the Father has no beginning............Jesus is the first of Gods work........