I thank God that I've finally stopped attaching what God has already done for me to what I can do for him. Tithe payers are people who live in fear, are still under the bondage of the law and they do not know it. The deceptive grace teachers even go further to say Tithe is not a law thing, it's a faith thing. So, everything we get from God is by grace through faith, except one, money - YOU MUST TITHE! They have absolutely no basis for this deceptive gospel, teaching Malachi 3:8-10 and saying that wasn't under the law. Most church goers in Nigeria are stupid, desperate people who think religion is a way of making a fast buck. If you want tithing to work for you the way your pastor has described, go start your own church!


I'm sick of a Nigeria that has both the Church and the country as corrupt. The rate of birth of churches is directly proportional to the rate of corrupt practices. If we are to help to sanitize the church, and indeed the country. Remove the corrupt practices. If you're keen on tithing, show your pastor Deuteronomy 14. I pray that your eyes of understanding will be enlightened!

raffite: There is only one problem here. People who sincerely give to Church projects know the benefits and blessings attached. Unfortunately, many do not even believe in God talk of his blessings, so they keep shouting and complaining. How I wish I had up to One Billion Naira in my account right now, I will close the account for this project.

And that's why they keep deceiving you, attributing wealth gotten outside of the church as God's blessings. Yeah, Dangote pays his tithes and sows seeds, so does gates! God knows where to channel resourceful wealth. Hardly have I found a non corrupt individual donate to such silly causes. All I hear is "malaria relief funds", "tsunami relief" etc. But here, for some corrupt idiots to have peace of mind, they drop 1 billion to a "GOD" project. Many Nigerians will not be wealthy, because Pastors have made you believe that the ONLY way you can be wealthy is to give to a cause that they claim is of God. What many Church goers and givers are chasing after is money. You give because you WANT more money, and sadly, they are taking advantage of you! So you have 1 Billion now and the next thing to do is give all to the Church for another building? Can the building even contain all the members of the RCCG? Why not build a 20km by 20km church. Religion, the umbrella under which evil is perpetrated in Nigeria!

frosbel:


So if the spirit separates from the body at death, what happens to the soul ?

Thanks.

Frosbel, we need to talk. You're doing a great work here, howbeit, knowledge needs to be balanced with love. It is hard for people to see what you're saying especially when most of us have been taught by Men (of God) and not by the God of those Men. You've punctured the heart of the notion that Man is a spirit, he has a soul and he lives in a body. I searched through scriptures and I saw that if that lie is debunked, then many other things like the false immortality of man (which people don't understand is a gift from Christ who brought it to light by the gospel) amidst many other teachings will crumble. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that ALL Spirits return to God at death...Genesis 2...man became a living soul...and hundreds of other scriptures that debunk the immortality of the soul of man (outside Christ) and the fact that man is a spirit. Deception will soon be over in churches, I see more light coming in and people breaking lose from the yoke of bondage.

I respect Joseph Prince so much, but listening to his teaching on tithing, I could not help but cry. I'm certain he must have wondered why people believed him. It was saddening. Most grace teachers that want to still teach tithing always get choked in between their messages. They know it for sure. It finds no place in the gospel of Christ.

One thing is certain. I fought hard against peeps that tried to teach me that righteousness was by faith apart from the deeds of the law. I had actually not studied, but I wanted to argue. Indeed, when I wanted to start studying, I was looking for parts of the bible to support my arguments, not to learn, and Oh, I found. But the Holy Spirit revealed truth to me. Very soon, many will start to study the bible with the mindset of the nature of God, which is love, and do away with eternal torment for the soul of Man!

alexleo:

My dear this agents of satan are twisting the bible. They stu.pidly quote the scriptures and give it satanic interpretation. See how one of their agents said that Elijah didn't actually ascend into heaven just because the place I quoted destroyed his evil plan of trying to manipulate the scripture he quoted to drive his devilish teaching. He explained the heaven Elijah was taken to as just the sky where plane and birds fly. Very deperate and shameless people. Heaven has suddenly had several interpretations same way they interpreted hell because their idiotic teaching must be propagated. Hopeless beings.

I really don't see it as mature and you walking in love when you sound like this. Your writings are quoted with so much anger and hate, and it is not necessary. Love is the way to go. Religion is one of our biggest problems in Nigeria. We insult people of blowing themselves up for 72 virgins but we are waiting for heavenly mansions, are we not worse? Relax! When people make seemingly opposing points from the same bible, the one who thinks he has the generally accepted belief starts to scream fowl play. Jesus was right. NO MAN EVER ENTERED INTO HEAVEN BEFORE HIM. They couldn't have. Their spirits were not redeemed, neither did they have glorious bodies. I know how you feel. When I was first thought righteousness by faith apart from works I was very sad. I had believed a lie all my life. Over a hundred scriptures in the bible talk about the death, destruction, consumption of man etc, but it's easier to hold on to RCCG and Deeper life's beliefs that man possesses an immortal spirit (which has no biblical support) and that that spirit will be tormented forever which you support by the parable of Jesus. The second twisted teaching is that the wages of sin is death...death doesn't really mean death, death means eternal torture in hell. These things you put up, relax, study God's Word, light will shine. Religion was made to manipulate people, and unfortunately, what Christ came to do was not to give one more tool of manipulation, but standardized institutions have made it so, closing our eyes to what they don't want us to see and making us study the bible with a guided tour. Please get a bible and read one. You have only ONE teacher, and he is the Holy Spirit!

I opened this thread primarily because of posts I have seen referring to one member of this forum or the other as a false teacher. Frosbel comes to my mind readily. How true is this? Frosbel believes the following:

Righteousness is by faith apart from the deeds of the Law
Heaven is God's throne and the earth he has made for the Children of men
The doctrine of eternal torture is not consistent with the scriptures
The immortality of Man's spirit must be from a Pagan origin and cannot be traced to God's Word. It is Christ that gives us immortality and man in his fallen state does not possess unconditional immortality
Tithing is a law thing and any giving in the new testament must be consistent with 1 Corinthians 9.

Is Frosbel lying? Is he a false teacher? Over time, the bible and christianity, like many other religions of the world have been used as a tool for oppressing people, which was not God's intent for giving His word. The Bible is not a tool for "tackling" people but no, we have been made to read the bible with a guided tour and hence, we cannot see beyond what our MEN OF GOD want us to see. They will tell you Jesus told you to pay tithes but ignore the fact that he says we should not stay in hotels when we go to minister the gospel. Who is actually lying? Is Frosbel quoting the book of Mormon. Isn't it high time we started studying outside of the guided tour religion has given us? Over to NairaLanders!

frosbel:

actually I took my own advice and did the research, my conclusion is either God or an angel he sent carried out this sentence. You are right on this count, thanks for the enlightenment , I humbly accept your correction.

However this does not buttress your overall contribution to this topic.

God will destroy sinners not torment them for eons, the bible does not support this fallacy.

Frosbel, I do not think he's right. The understanding and perception of God in the Old Testament. God is a life giving spirit, he is absolute light, no darkness at all, He is not tempted by evil. When peeps say our God does evil, that must be Allah, not the Living God. It was the angel of death that did this as enlightened by Paul in Hebrews 11, but "everything" is done by God as far as the Old Testament guys were concerned. God cannot subject man to eternal torment. In his mercy, he didn't allow us eat from the tree of life and leave forever in an unredeemable state, else, man would have had to suffer eternal torment. But Paul tells us that God's raging fire will CONSUME the enemies of God, not torture!

frosbel:

Just because you label something with the JW tag does not make it false, especially seeing that they are more able to a certain extent , to decipher biblical truths than the millions of mushroom churches littering the country.

Problem with cults in Nigeria is , pride is preventing their self appointed leaders from coming out of the mire and filth of fraudulent doctrines, you only need to observe the wicked and evil fruit produced from these doctrines and cults , to know that there is something dangerously wrong with their system of theology.

Frosbel, you're so freaking right. The reason why we cannot make sense to the Jehovah's witnesses is this, in essence, they make more sense than us. Our churches don't know jack, just tithes and more tithes. They preach crap like mansiopns in heaven and all what's not! How is that different to those going to heaven for 72 virgins? The lake of fire was meant for the destruction of man and not for torment. The immortality of the soul of the fallen man is not taught in the bible and was got from Pagan religions. Christ was the one who brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. I talk to JW and I am actually spurred more to intellectual talks I have with them much more than the arguments of keeping the laws of Moses as a prerequisite to salvation I find littering this forum. Great work our Pastors have done scaring the people of God with eternal torment! And please, nobody should give me that crap of people who have gone to hell. If someone sincerely dies and sees Sango as the way, would you believe? To the Law and the Prophet, if they do not testify of me, it means there is no light in them!

This is very unfortunate. Some guys here are still canvassing for circumcision as a prerequisite for salvation or for continuation in salvation. Like I said earlier, the new covenant is not understood, except of course some people are just deliberating trying to win an argument here. Galatians 3, Romans 8 and 10, 1 Corinthians 3 and many more chapters in the bible are more than enough to go against this rubbish. You want to keep the Laws of Moses? They Laws of Moses were written in our hearts? God gave you 1 Terabyte of Memory to store the Laws of Moses and obey them till you're finally found guilty of one and denied entrance into heaven. This is just plain silly!

JesusisLord85:

The law is holy, no one can be justified by it, BECAUSE nobody could keep it fully. That is correct. So we are free from the condemnation of the law, i.e. death.
verse 13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree"

See that? From the "curse of the law"..NOT 'from the law, that is a curse'.

That does not mean we should not observe it. God said he will write his law/torah in their hearts. What is the point in that if they are to simply ignore it?

People were preaching that you must do this or that in order to receive salvation. Paul said we cannot be justified by keeping the law. Yet, somehow, people think this to mean we do away with the law. Sin is transgression of the law. How can there be sin if there is no law?
I will give you a full breakdown of what Galatians 3 actualy means later. But I can tell you now, it does not mean to do away with the law.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
Heb 8:9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD.
Heb 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 8:11 "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
Heb 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

So the Law is now the torah, right? That is your own translation, really. The new commandment Christ gave us is Love and that is the law written in our heart. Nowhere in Paul's writing will you see Paul advocating for new converts to obey the Law, either to be saved, righteous, to keep being saved or to keep being righteous. When people try to manipulate others, that's when they remember one law of Moses or the other. The truth is, if this deception is to stop, vs 11 will have to be followed, you wouldn't have to teach your neighbour to "Know the Lord", but now, just like during the law, people still want to teach others what and what not to do, and therein lies the deception of the tithes. I wonder how you will give a compulsory 10 percent of your income every month and it won't be of "necessity". If Paul had advocated for any aspect of the law to be obeyed, we wouldn't be here having this discussion, and apart from that, I think a lot of people don't actually fully understand the New Covenant. Some people still think it's some brand of islam. What have our pastors been teaching? Morals? Tithes? Lord have mercy!

JesusisLord85:

Ok, let me explain what Acts 10 actually means:
Peter has a dream. In it, he saw unclean animals. God said, "kill and eat" (in the dream).
Peter says "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean."

Let us pause for a second. Peter was commissioned by God to preach the gospel by Jesus himself. If Jesus said you eat unclean animals, how come Peter didn't get the memo?

Anyway, the problem here is that you have tried to interpret the dream by yourself. Dreams in the bible always have an interpretation, the reader is not left to make up his own mind what it means. Unless of course you have the gift of interpreting dreams like Daniel or Joseph

The interpretation is given in verse 28 "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

Tradition of the elders (not the law) says a Jew cannot enter the house of a gentile. If not for the dream, and the apprearance of the angel, Peter would not have entered a gentile home. God did not contradict his own law i.e. do not eat unclean animals. He was saying the gentiles are not unclean, which contradicts the tradition of the elders.

There are many NT passaged such as this that are wildly misunderstood. Dodgy translations do not help either brother.

See we don't need to argue this thing blindly. I used a dodgy translation, right? I thought I only wanted to explain better, however, it's funny that I get the same meaning from the KJV.

What you're saying in essence is that Christians NEED and are still required to KEEP the LAW of MOSES. This is just Sad!

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
Gal 3:7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
Gal 3:11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
Gal 3:12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

That's some NKJV! Paul could NEVER have advocated keeping the Laws of Moses for the Christian, NEVER. The Laws written on tablet stones and interpreted by men was always to exploit people. So even though the Law was Holy, Just and good, it had no power to do the same in the life of a believer. I wonder how people will try to search out one passage in the new testament to make it mean we're still supposed to obey the Law of Moses, when hundreds of others clearly speak against it!

JesusisLord85:

Brother,

The verses you quote are commonly misunderstood. After work I will return to explain. But let me make this clear for now. God is not the author of confusion. If Paul and Peter were keeping the Law (Acts 21:20-25) how could he preach something different, that is hypocrisy? That should tell you instntly that you may have misunderstood.

Think of Acts 15, when Paul went to see the council in Jerusalem. Most Christians use this passage to suggest the gentiles are not required to obsevre the law of Moses. But let me show you why that is incorrect, and why it contradicts their own idea that "faith is all you need".

verse 19: "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God"
In other words, do no trouble those who are just turning over to Christ.

verse 20: "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

i.e. But thell them, there are certain laws they must adhere to immediately.

verse 21: "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

i.e. They will learn the rest of the law as they go along, for the law is taught every sabbath in the synagogues.

Another interesting thing is verse 20. James says that they must adhere to certain things i.e. works. But modern christians say that just by believing, they are saved. Even the devil believes my brother. Those 4 things mentioned in verse 20, does the church even adhere to those? Your pastors sleep with members, people eat srangled creatures, and 'rare' steak i.e. with blood. Amazing

Wow! This is interesting to read. So, this one passage you have quoted has made all I said invalid. Cool. Let's start obeying the law to be righteous then...hurries of to study the Torah!

I hate arguments, especially when people have not studied extensively. The passage you're talking about clearly speaks against the Law. Wait, are we trying to win arguments here or we are trying to learn? Anyone can win an argument, especially with the bible, but Paul was in big trouble there by what he preached (He preached against the Law of Moses) and they looked for a way to remedy the situation

Act 21:20 They listened with delight and gave God the glory. They had a story to tell, too: "And just look at what's been happening here--thousands upon thousands of God-fearing Jews have become believers in Jesus! But there's also a problem because they are more zealous than ever in observing the laws of Moses.
Act 21:21 They've been told that you advise believing Jews who live surrounded by Gentiles to go light on Moses, telling them that they don't need to circumcise their children or keep up the old traditions. This isn't sitting at all well with them.
Act 21:22 "We're worried about what will happen when they discover you're in town. There's bound to be trouble. So here is what we want you to do:
Act 21:23 There are four men from our company who have taken a vow involving ritual purification, but have no money to pay the expenses.
Act 21:24 Join these men in their vows and pay their expenses. Then it will become obvious to everyone that there is nothing to the rumors going around about you and that you are in fact scrupulous in your reverence for the laws of Moses.
Act 21:25 "In asking you to do this, we're not going back on our agreement regarding Gentiles who have become believers. We continue to hold fast to what we wrote in that letter, namely, to be careful not to get involved in activities connected with idols; to avoid serving food offensive to Jewish Christians; to guard the morality of sex and marriage."
Act 21:26 So Paul did it--took the men, joined them in their vows, and paid their way. The next day he went to the Temple to make it official and stay there until the proper sacrifices had been offered and completed for each of them.
Act 21:27 When the seven days of their purification were nearly up, some Jews from around Ephesus spotted him in the Temple. At once they turned the place upside-down. They grabbed Paul
Act 21:28 and started yelling at the top of their lungs, "Help! You Israelites, help! This is the man who is going all over the world telling lies against us and our religion and this place. He's even brought Greeks in here and defiled this holy place."

Bidam, please read this. It should answer many of your questions. We are having an intellectual debate here, all those words like mumu and the likes that demean other people should be avoided. The hallmark of spiritual maturity is love and not bible knowledge. You're blessed!

MAN: Father God, what is your opinion about the Law of Moses?

GOD: I have annulled it, (Heb.7:18); I have made it obsolete, (Heb.8:13); I have changed it, (Heb.7:12); I have wipe it out, (Col.2:14); and I have cast it out because it is the seed of the bondwoman, (Gal.4:30); and in its stead I have made a new arrangement. (Heb.8:7-.

MAN: Can we not borrow some of the precepts of the OT for our worship services?

GOD: Anybody who wants to borrow part of the law must be prepared to keep everything as stipulated. (James 2:10; Gal.5:3) Nobody is permitted to amend the Law of Moses to suit his own condition. (Deut.5:32; 17:20; 28:14; Jos.1:7) But let anyone who puts himself under the law know for sure that he has no part with Jesus Christ, the mediator of the New Testament, (Gal.3:10; 5:4) because he makes void the death of Jesus.(Gal.2:21). Do you want to go back under the curse from where Jesus has redeemed you?

MAN: Father, will people not violate your law when we say that they are not under the law?

GOD: Have they not been violating it before? When the Law of Moses was fully operational, people broke it; even the Israelites who were given the law first hand could not keep it. (Acts 7:53; 15:10) Let me tell you plainly, I did not design that the law should save anybody; rather it was designed to condemn people so that they might realize that they need a Savior. Anyone who accepts Jesus and stays in His teaching is the one who will be delivered from the bondage and condemnation that the law brings. (Rom.6:3-14) Nobody who puts himself under the law will have a part in my kingdom. (Gal.5:4)

MAN: But Jesus said that He did not come to cancel the law but to fulfill it. (Mat.5:17). What about that?

GOD: Yes He came to fulfill the law and that is why He said in Lk. 24:44 that He had now fulfilled all. After fulfilling the law, the Law of Moses had spent its force and it is not binding on the NT believers. Only those who love Christ will stay under the New Covenant, Many who pay tithe today do so either for the fear of a curse or because they want blessings. Hardly do we see people who contribute money because of their love for me. My son Jesus said, “My yoke is easy ….” If anybody decides to carry the yoke of Moses, he finds trouble for himself. (Gal.5:1)

MAN: If the Ten Commandments had been abrogated, does it mean we can continue to sin?

GOD: You have to know that the moral standard of a new creature in Christ is above the dictates of the Law of Moses. The law says, “You shall not commit adultery,” but my son Jesus said that anyone who lusted after a woman had already committed adultery in his heart. (Mt.5:27-28) Anybody who accepts the Lordship of Jesus is declared righteous. (2Cor. 5:21; Rom.5:17) Paul, my beloved servant said that the law was not for the righteous but for sinners. (1 Tim. 1:9-10). If you desire to remain under the law, it is your problem. In my own program, the law is obsolete and I have annulled it. Go and study 2 Cor.3:7-11 properly and you will see that the law is a ministry of death, of condemnation, and that which is fading away. Why will you like to stay on what I have abandoned? It cannot profit you.

MAN: Father does it really matter what we do or believe? I think sincerity with You is the most important thing.

GOD: You may be sincere all you want to but as long as you go against my blueprint, you will not be pardoned. Moses was sincere, yet he missed the Promised Land. Uzzah was sincere and yet he died a sudden death. King Saul was sincere and yet was rejected. Your sincerity is not enough, follow my own blueprint. Only those who bow to my will shall rejoice in the end.

MAN: There are so many popular and charismatic preachers who believe, teach, and collect tithes. Can all these people be wrong?

GOD: You have your Bible where you can see how I dealt with people in the past. None of the people you talk about can be more popular and charismatic than Moses, who shook Egypt to its very foundation. Moses missed his target simply because he used an old revelation and set aside the new one. I am not partial in any way, so if Moses could miss his destiny on account of one instance of disobedience, anybody who ignores the New Testament provisions is in trouble! (Heb. 2:3).

MAN: Thank you Father, it is now clear to me. But I want you to clarify 2 Sam. 24:24 where David said, “…Nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing…” Some preachers told us that even if we don’t have we could borrow in order to give. They encouraged us to give above our resources. Is that in order?

GOD: Read the whole passage from verse 11 to the end and you will see that nothing there suggests what your preachers are telling you. David as a king was wealthier than Aruanah who wanted to give him objects he needed free of charge. David declined because he could afford to pay for those items. Look at my final revelation from the Jerusalem Bible, “As long as the readiness is there, a man is acceptable with whatever he can afford; never mind what is beyond his means. This does not mean that before you give relief to others you ought to make things difficult for yourselves…” (2Cor. 8:12-14) The unfortunate thing about you humans is that you still want to stay around the stake to which you were tied even after your chains had been broken. It is not the fault of those preachers who take advantage of you; it is your fault because you are too lazy to find out the truth for yourselves.

MAN: Father, would you advise us these days to give all just like people did in Acts of the Apostles? Your Son Jesus commended the widow who gave all as the best giver. What do you say?

GOD: Really, giving all is the spirit of the New Testament. But I must quickly add that the situation then made giving all practicable. When people gave all, they were sure to have their needs met afterwards. A situation whereby giving all will only service the lusts and luxuries of a cabal, is unacceptable. Listen to what I inspired Paul to say in 2Cor. 8:13-14, “I am not trying to relieve others by putting a burden on you; but since you have plenty at this time, it is only fair that you should help those who are in need. Then when you are in need and they have plenty, they will help you. In this way both are treated equally.” That was the case in the early church. Today when all that your leaders emphasize is giving, but the needs of the poor are not catered for, you must be careful. You can have a project of ministering to the poor yourself if your church does not take it seriously.

And to answer your second question, I give way more than 10 percent of my income. I give to causes which the Holy Spirit will have me give to. Only if we could give tithes the way Abraham GAVE tithes. Our eyes would truly be opened to the person of Melchizedek today and not just compulsorily dropping 10 percent of our income everytime in Church, under the threat of being cursed or wanting to get a blessing. The argument for Abraham shows that he GAVE under neither of the circumstances. You can download the book that speaks entirely on the tithing system and how it should be done here http://mb.mettalloids.com/tithe-and-you-the-book/

Bidam: Paul says in Romans 3:31, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” So you are wrong in saying paul meant the law when he talks about letter..abeg go read your bible well jare.

Bidam, it is the LAW that Kills, and the spirit gives life. (AMP) [It is He] Who has qualified us [making us to be fit and worthy and sufficient] as ministers and dispensers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not [ministers] of the letter (of legally written code) but of the Spirit; for the code [of the Law] kills, but the [Holy] Spirit makes alive. [Jer. 31:31.]

The law is called the ministry of condemnation. Is it only tithing that predates the law? That was the only scam that could be used to support tithing. The sabbath, sacrifice on mount moriah, circumcision amongst many other things predate the law. Please understand the new covenant, and stop trying to make invalid arguments. You sound to me like you're trying hard to win an argument. We have all believed false teachings before, we studied our bibles and found out the truth. No man of God is infalible, please study hard to understand the new covenant, for therein lies your freedom from bondage
2Co 3:17 They suddenly recognize that God is a living, personal presence, not a piece of chiseled stone. And when God is personally present, a living Spirit, that old, constricting legislation is recognized as obsolete. We're free of it!
2Co 3:18 All of us! Nothing between us and God, our faces shining with the brightness of his face. And so we are transfigured much like the Messiah, our lives gradually becoming brighter and more beautiful as God enters our lives and we become like him.

You could read more grace filled inspirations on my blog at http://mb.mettalloids.com

Sincere Bigot: did abraham pay tithes to a store house? Where in the bible are we instructed to pay tithes through Abram system?

I'm still shocked that people could buy that idea! Anyway, I once bought it. It's funny how our grace teachers will tell you how all the law has been abolished except one - the tithe. Do we know how to even walk the steps of Abraham? Abraham circumcised, tithed, sacrificed...you want us to do all these? Married two wives, impregnated a house made, fought a war...ha! Christians. And this is what they tried to make the Galatians do, claiming circumcision was not a law thing. He told them blatantly in Galatians 3:9 - So then, those who are of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Take it or leave it, that's the Word of God. Trying to "do" anything to avoid a curse or attract a blessing, and you have taken yourself back - straight under the law!

Here is the download link

http://mb.mettalloids.com/tithe-and-you-the-book/

1. Abraham did not pay tithe, but gave tithe to Melchizedek. To him therefore, tithe was a freewill offering, which was not prompted by a law or a religious custom. (Gen. 14:18-20; Heb. 7:1-4)
2. Abraham’s giving of tithe was not done in order to be blessed. Melchizedek blessed Abraham first before the latter gave tithe to the former. The giving of tithe was only a sign of appreciation to Melchizedek, not an inducement to receiving blessings.
3. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoil of war and not out of his own personal property or earning. (Heb. 7:2) If we wish to follow Abraham’s example strictly, we have to fight a war, win, take spoil and then give a tenth of it.
4. There is no Scriptural evidence that Abraham passed on the ordinance of tithing to his offspring as an obligation. If he did, it would be out of place for Jacob to be promising God tithe, which would be obligatory anyway. I doubt if it is necessary to promise God what is already an accepted tradition.
5. Tithing entered into the Law of Moses partly to make provisions for the sons of Levi who had no inheritance in the Land of Promise. Now that all believers are priests, who pays to whom? (Num 18:20-24; Lev. 27:30-33; Num. 18:25-29; Deut 12:14-7, 11, 17, 18; 14:22-27; Lev. 25:1-12).
6. Now that the Levitical priesthood has been abrogated, the law of tithing that used to keep that institution functional has to go too. This, I think, is the conclusion of Heb. 7:1-12.
7. The summary of Heb. 7:1-12 can be stated in three sentences:
(i) Tithing started with Abraham as a freewill offering. (Heb. 7:1-4).
(ii) It entered into the Law of Moses to provide for the Levitical Priesthood, and so became obligatory for everybody under the Law (Heb. 7:5:10).
(iii) Now that the priesthood has been changed because it could not bring perfection, the law that came with it (including tithing) has to be changed also. (Heb 7:11, 12).
8. Every other practice that came before the Law, which entered the Law, perished with the Law. Saturday Sabbath is no longer required to be observed, not even to be observed as Sunday. (Col. 2:16; Gal. 4:9-11; Rom. 14:1-14) Discrimination between clean and unclean animals is no longer valid. (Acts 10:9-15; I Tim 4:1-5; Gen 7:2,3) Circumcision as a means of entering into Abraham’s covenant is now replaced with water baptism (compare Gen. 17:9-13 with Col 2:11-13). Tithing is now replaced with freewill offering. (2Cor. 9:7) Even Barnabas (a Levite) gave according to NT principle, (Acts 4:36-37) to fulfill Malachi 3:3.
9. The Decalogue, which is the nucleus of the whole Mosaic Law, is described by Paul as:
(i) Ministration of death (2Cor. 3:7). Is it not the Decalogue that was engraved on stones?
(ii) Ministration of condemnation (2Cor. 3:9);
(iii) That which is passing away. (2Cor 3:11)
If Paul used such description for the Law, then, why will a New Testament believer dwell so much on the Law? (Gal. 2:21)
10. Paul seems to suggest in 2Cor. 3:13-15 that the veil that Moses put upon his face is the reason why many people, till today, have not seen the end of the Law Covenant. “Their minds are blinded”.
11. Moses failed to reach his destination just because he relied on a previous instruction to handle a new, though similar, situation. At Rephidim, he was instructed to strike the rock with his rod to supply water for the children of Israel and he did. (Ex. 17:1-7) But at Kadesh, he was commanded to speak to the rock for the same reason, but he struck it twice instead. (Num. 20:1-13) That incidence became a reference point of regret for Moses. (Num. 27:14; Deut. 1:37; 3:26) Hence, he could not finish his race.
12. If Moses forfeited his destiny just on that one point, it is possible for any of us to lose his for that same simple reason. Ignoring the NT provisions is like trampling on the Son of God, counting His blood unholy and insulting the Spirit of grace. God will not leave anybody in such situation unpunished. (Heb. 10:2, 29) “How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?” (Heb. 2:3)
13. It is true that God commanded tithe under the Law of Moses, but now under the gospel age, what is His command on giving? (2Cor. 9:7) See Galatians 3:23, 24.
14. In Matt. 5:17, Jesus said that he did not come to cancel the Law but to fulfill it, but in Luke 24:44 he also said he had fulfilled it all by His death.
15. Even for the people of Israel, the Law was not meant to be an everlasting arrangement. It only came because of the hardness of the hearts of the people, (Mk. 10:5; Ez. 20:24, 26) to keep them in custody until the coming of the savior (Gal. 3:23-25). The coming of the Law was an aberration, and not in the original plan of God; (Gal 3:23-25) and it was administered by angels. (Acts 7:30-36, 38, 53; Gal 3:19; Heb. 2:2). Jesus is better than angels in all things. (Heb 1:1-14)
16. Satan and the Law of Moses perform practically the same function before God – accusing people. (Rev. 12:10; Jn. 5:45; Rom. 7:9). Anybody under the Law has a permanent accuser before God, even now.
17. The Law is faulty (Heb. 8:7-13), unprofitable and weak, hence the need to change it. (Heb. 7:18, 19)
18. The NT method of giving is based on freewill as stipulated in 2Cor. 9:6, 7.
19. With all the wonderful teachings of Paul on giving, he never at any time appealed to the law of tithing. Why didn’t he if the Law is still for us Christians?
20. There is a clue in Malachi to the fact that the Law should be operational until the coming of “the Lord whom you seek…the massager of that covenant in whom you delight…” (3:1) The implication is that they no longer had delight in the old order; hence they abandoned tithe payment which should keep Levi in office. Prophet Malachi was raised to call the people back to follow the Law of Moses. Without restoration of tithing, the priesthood could not be restored, and without the priesthood, the Law could not be restored. This is why Malachi spoke so forcefully in support of tithes.
21. Nobody can follow the Law of tithing as stipulated under the Mosaic Law. Farmers must not bring money but crops and livestock to be stored in a storehouse. If anybody would convert the farm produce to money, he should add another one-fifth to it. (Lev. 27:31) If we are to follow the law of tithing, we must not amplify it, water it down, put our own idea or panel-beat it to suit our own condition. This is the meaning of not turning to the right hand or to the left as in Josh. 1:7; Deut. 5:32; 17:20.
22. There must be a year of tithe and a mandatory declaration before God that all the tithes have been paid without holding anything back. (Deut 26:12-15).
23. Anybody who stays under the Law of Moses has fallen away from grace (Gal. 5:4) and, like Hagar and her son, must be cast out. (Gal. 4:23-30)
24. The Law has become obsolete (Heb. 8:13), changed (Heb. 7: 11-12); cast out (Gal. 4:30), cancelled (Col. 2:14) and annulled (Rom. 3:27-28). What is the implication of this?
25. For us New Testament believers, we don’t refrain from sin because of what the Law says, but because our new nature puts us above the dictates of the Law (Rom 6. 1-4). The Law was there before our conversion, but yet we broke it. (Jas. 2:10).
26. If anybody gives because of the law of tithing, he has violated a New Testament principle of giving – “Let everyone give as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity (as under the Law), for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2Cor. 9:7) “He who sows…bountifully will also reap bountifully” is an eternal law of giving that is not restricted to the OT!
27. The New Testament of Jesus started at His death (Heb.9:16-18). The Law of Moses was still in operation while Jesus was alive in the flesh; hence he spoke about tithes, offering of sacrifice commanded by Moses for any leper that was healed. It was his death that brought an end to the Law of Moses. (Gal. 4:1-5; Col. 2:14; Eph. 2:13-15). Read the Amplified version.
28. Stephen testified that the people who were given the Law could not keep it. (Acts. 7:51-53) Peter said that keeping people under the Law is like tempting God and putting a yoke upon the disciples, which the original owners of the Law could not carry. (Acts 15:10)
29. Peter suggested building three tabernacles on the Mount of Transfiguration, but God overruled by saying, ‘this is my beloved Son: hear him’, and allowed Moses and Elijah to fizzle out. (Lk. 9:28-36; Mk. 9:5-8; Mt. 17:4-. This is a testimony that Jesus Christ is the final revelation of God’s mind to humanity. (Heb. 1:1-4). There cannot be three tabernacles; God’s Son must have the last say. Mingling the old and the new is not profitable to God’s Kingdom at all. (Matt. 9:16-17)


Drummer boy I did, and I am doing it again, but for more information on the "tithe" doctrine, grace inspirations and many more, you could read my blog. These arm twisting of Christians has to stop. I attributed my failures or financial and material successes to the tithe. I was so wrong. Bidam, it was infact when I started reading my bible myself that I stopped paying tithes. It is silly to give God a miserly 10 percent of your income and free him till the next month. There's nothing generous about that. It is easier to give tithes after being scared with a curse or enticed with a blessing, than to give up to 40 percent of your income to one who you know has already blessed you. Baby Christians are always looking through the bible for a list of dos and dont's. Christ the call us to that. You need to know what the NEW COVENANT is...!

Bidam: lawless reprobates will like your post na.

Funny how people try hard to keep the Law. And selectively at that. Most christians don't study the scriptures but love to argue what's in their heads and what their pastors told them. I'm glad the greedy tithing remained until now. I'm sure God just looked on at how the Old Covenant slipped into the new. Greedy and selfish christians would hardly give anything save the tithe! And if that is how they're forced to give all well and good. I have read so much on this blog. There are two sides, people that talk out of knowledge, and people that talk as mouth pieces to their pastors

We all need to be patient with tithers. I was once there too myself. I remember all the crap that happened and how much we suffered because we indeed try to buy God's blessings. My questions on tithing have never been answerable, and even our so called grace teachers believe you get everything from God by grace through faith, except one - MONEY. You have to give and tithe and sow until you go broke. I remember my dad vowing money he never had, paying 20 percent as tithe and all the other crap we are encouraged to do as Christians. Someone even said we have to do what Abraham did to be as blessed as he is. They consider the blessing of Abraham material. That is all just false. The blessing of Abraham was righteousness APART from works! Abraham was already EXTREMELY blessed before he gave tithes. My pastor still wanted me to believe he paid tithes and all the passages they quote. I just had to write about the crap on my blog http://mb.mettalloids.com and you can also download a book here that explicitly talks about the tithe http://mb.mettalloids.com/tithe-and-you-the-book/ . Ever since I stopped tithing, I have been able to give way more that 40 percent of my income. In this, it was easier to consider the poor and needy which was Christ's injunction to his disciples. May God help us!

WHICH LAW HAS THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST ANNULLED?
Which aspect of the Law of Moses does Paul affirm that the death of Jesus Christ has annulled, is it the Ten Commandments or the ordinances of worship of the OT?
Some people say that the law is divided into moral and ceremonial parts.
There is no dichotomy between the moral and the ceremonial in Paul’s theology. The teachings of Paul are by direct revelation of Jesus Christ, (Gal. 1:12; 1Cor. 14:37) and all the other apostles endorsed them. (Gal. 2:9, 10) The Ten Commandments is the nucleus of the whole OT ordinances of worship. It is sin against the Ten Commandments that necessitates the ordinances of worship for purification; and the ordinances of gifts for the priests and Levites were meant to keep and maintain the human resources under the law. There is no distinction between moral laws and ceremonial laws in the literature of the NT. The law which Paul says works death is the tenth commandment; (Rom.7:7-13; Ex.20:17) and the ministration of death is written on stones. (2Cor. 3:7-11)
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me”. (Rom.7:7-11).

The above shows that the Decalogue is part of what gives sin power, and by it the accuser comes and opens the door for the enemy to take over. It is the law which empowers sin, so that death is able to sting.
“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law”. 1Cor.15:56.
It is the Ten Commandments written and engraved in stones, that is the nucleus of all other rules, statutes, ordinances, and judgments of the OT. This same Decalogue is called ministration of condemnation and that which is passing away. (2 Cor.3:7-11). “But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is passing away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious”.

Many of us behave as if we were more knowledgeable on spiritual things than Apostle Paul. We could even suggest that all his epistles be removed from the Bible. But unfortunately, we are the people in error. Jesus Christ is the final revelation of God to humanity and His NT must prevail over the OT. It is God’s plan.
“Wherefore the law was our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith. But when faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.” Gal.3:24, 25
God spoke through Prophet Ezekiel that the Law He gave then was not good, and the judgment emanating from the law could not give anybody life. Eze. 20:24.
It is quite unfortunate that the church has abandoned the truth for so long that she is now used to falsehood, and does not like to go back to the truth. People generally think that whatever is biblical is a strange doctrine; and that whatever is generally accepted, which brings result and which looks convenient is the truth. When people see what the Bible says on a point, they want to accept on the condition that it is convenient to their taste or a highly respected person is the one saying it.
Let us consider the following dialogue between God and man.

MAN: Father God, what is your opinion about the Law of Moses?
GOD: I have annulled it, (Heb.7:18); I have made it obsolete, (Heb.8:13); I have changed it, (Heb.7:12); I have wipe it out, (Col.2:14); and I have cast it out because it is the seed of the bondwoman, (Gal.4:30); and in its stead I have made a new arrangement. (Heb.8:7-.
MAN: Can we not borrow some of the precepts of the OT for our worship services?
GOD: Anybody who wants to borrow part of the law must be prepared to keep everything as stipulated. (James 2:10; Gal.5:3) Nobody is permitted to amend the Law of Moses to suit his own condition. (Deut.5:32; 17:20; 28:14; Jos.1:7) But let anyone who puts himself under the law know for sure that he has no part with Jesus Christ, the mediator of the New Testament, (Gal.3:10; 5:4) because he makes void the death of Jesus.(Gal.2:21). Do you want to go back under the curse from where Jesus has redeemed you?
MAN: Father, will people not violate your law when we say that they are not under the law?
GOD: Have they not been violating it before? When the Law of Moses was fully operational, people broke it; even the Israelites who were given the law first hand could not keep it. (Acts 7:53; 15:10) Let me tell you plainly, I did not design that the law should save anybody; rather it was designed to condemn people so that they might realize that they need a Savior. Anyone who accepts Jesus and stays in His teaching is the one who will be delivered from the bondage and condemnation that the law brings. (Rom.6:3-14) Nobody who puts himself under the law will have a part in my kingdom. (Gal.5:4)
MAN: But Jesus said that He did not come to cancel the law but to fulfill it. (Mat.5:17). What about that?
GOD: Yes He came to fulfill the law and that is why He said in Lk. 24:44 that He had now fulfilled all. After fulfilling the law, the Law of Moses had spent its force and it is not binding on the NT believers. Only those who love Christ will stay under the New Covenant, Many who pay tithe today do so either for the fear of a curse or because they want blessings. Hardly do we see people who contribute money because of their love for me. My son Jesus said, “My yoke is easy ….” If anybody decides to carry the yoke of Moses, he finds trouble for himself. (Gal.5:1)
MAN: If the Ten Commandments had been abrogated, does it mean we can continue to sin?
GOD: You have to know that the moral standard of a new creature in Christ is above the dictates of the Law of Moses. The law says, “You shall not commit adultery,” but my son Jesus said that anyone who lusted after a woman had already committed adultery in his heart. (Mt.5:27-28) Anybody who accepts the Lordship of Jesus is declared righteous. (2Cor. 5:21; Rom.5:17) Paul, my beloved servant said that the law was not for the righteous but for sinners. (1 Tim. 1:9-10). If you desire to remain under the law, it is your problem. In my own program, the law is obsolete and I have annulled it. Go and study 2 Cor.3:7-11 properly and you will see that the law is a ministry of death, of condemnation, and that which is fading away. Why will you like to stay on what I have abandoned? It cannot profit you.
MAN: Father does it really matter what we do or believe? I think sincerity with You is the most important thing.
GOD: You may be sincere all you want to but as long as you go against my blueprint, you will not be pardoned. Moses was sincere, yet he missed the Promised Land. Uzzah was sincere and yet he died a sudden death. King Saul was sincere and yet was rejected. Your sincerity is not enough, follow my own blueprint. Only those who bow to my will shall rejoice in the end.
MAN: There are so many popular and charismatic preachers who believe, teach, and collect tithes. Can all these people be wrong?
GOD: You have your Bible where you can see how I dealt with people in the past. None of the people you talk about can be more popular and charismatic than Moses, who shook Egypt to its very foundation. Moses missed his target simply because he used an old revelation and set aside the new one. I am not partial in any way, so if Moses could miss his destiny on account of one instance of disobedience, anybody who ignores the New Testament provisions is in trouble! (Heb. 2:3).
MAN: Thank you Father, it is now clear to me. But I want you to clarify 2 Sam. 24:24 where David said, “…Nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing…” Some preachers told us that even if we don’t have we could borrow in order to give. They encouraged us to give above our resources. Is that in order?
GOD: Read the whole passage from verse 11 to the end and you will see that nothing there suggests what your preachers are telling you. David as a king was wealthier than Aruanah who wanted to give him objects he needed free of charge. David declined because he could afford to pay for those items. Look at my final revelation from the Jerusalem Bible, “As long as the readiness is there, a man is acceptable with whatever he can afford; never mind what is beyond his means. This does not mean that before you give relief to others you ought to make things difficult for yourselves…” (2Cor. 8:12-14) The unfortunate thing about you humans is that you still want to stay around the stake to which you were tied even after your chains had been broken. It is not the fault of those preachers who take advantage of you; it is your fault because you are too lazy to find out the truth for yourselves.
MAN: Father, would you advise us these days to give all just like people did in Acts of the Apostles? Your Son Jesus commended the widow who gave all as the best giver. What do you say?
GOD: Really, giving all is the spirit of the New Testament. But I must quickly add that the situation then made giving all practicable. When people gave all, they were sure to have their needs met afterwards. A situation whereby giving all will only service the lusts and luxuries of a cabal, is unacceptable. Listen to what I inspired Paul to say in 2Cor. 8:13-14, “I am not trying to relieve others by putting a burden on you; but since you have plenty at this time, it is only fair that you should help those who are in need. Then when you are in need and they have plenty, they will help you. In this way both are treated equally.” That was the case in the early church. Today when all that your leaders emphasize is giving, but the needs of the poor are not catered for, you must be careful. You can have a project of ministering to the poor yourself if your church does not take it seriously.

I had to stop in my tracks. So she just motioned to me, howbeit ostensibly, that that was a grave error. She took one quick glance at me, and then another, after which she muttered something under her breath. “I DO NOT have a boyfriend. My fiancé is doing great. There is NO word like boyfriend in the bible.”
The harsh realities dawned on me. “I must be a baby Christian”, I thought to myself. Only that I currently wished I had asked her what the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew word translated ‘fiancé’ was. And shortly, the harsh realities of her inclination will dawn on her,too.

One cold evening…
So, ‘boys’ had to declare their assets at an executive meeting, and somehow, a young man had to declared single while his immediate past girl had pre-declared in a ‘maritally intended relationship’. It was sure a very cold evening for her. She stormed out of the meeting – out into the waiting hands of other female leaders who were ever present to solve such problems. When will these end?
I have heard a countless number of such stories. Is it the one a brother asked two girls in the same room out, or another that a friend once wrote about, of how the ‘Holy Spirit’ woke a boy up in Fajuyi Hall, and told him to go to the third compartment of the net at the University Sports Center, where he would meet a girl in a red top, waiting. He did not meet the girl waiting, and when she would eventually arrive, she was in the second compartment. I’m assuming for the ‘holy spirit’ that she was the one, because the girl eventually came in something that we would have to convince ourselves was red, since we do not expect the spirit of truth to tell a lie…
I once read a story of how a man in front of a priest did not confess to the priest because he didn’t have a collar on. The priest asked the man, “Does the collar make the priest?” When the man insisted on the priest having a collar on, the priest put a collar on the table and walked away.

Do terms determine what is in the heart of a man?
The human mind is the most deceitful of all things. It is incurable. No one can understand how deceitful it is. Jeremiah 17:9 God’s Word Translation
Finally, he has opened up. He has popped the same question he popped to the 18 girls before you. That self-same silly question for gullible people who make themselves easy to prey upon. The question (or statement in some cases) that I’ve refused to believe classmates and friends have asked. I’ve heard “Can I be martially intended towards you” and “I want to have an affair with you” all in the name of I’m not asking her out! Do these terms actually give an accurate reflection of the incurably deceitful functions and programs in the hearts of men (and women)?

Joshua Harris kissed dating goodbye…
…and you’re kissing your own fiancée goodbye??!! He explained what he meant – perfectly. God bless the young man. He kissed dating goodbye, so there wouldn’t be that false idea that we are to ‘test the waters’ before we get married. But then, we have kissed dating goodbye, and adding more to it. We’re going the extra mile, kissing our ‘fiancées’ goodbye. I have a friend of a friend who has had about 8 fiancées now and still counting. The very reason this young man wrote his volume has now been defeated. The words we heard, the ideals we won’t keep.

Let him not think he will receive anything from God!
You know him, right. Yes! I’m talking about a double minded man. And the reason he would not receive is because he is very unstable in all his ways. A person who has doubts is thinking about two different things at the same time and can't make up his mind about anything. He who has found a wife has obtained favour from the Lord. But you really want to receive favour from God concerning a life partner, brother, why are you being “octo-minded”?

He was merely stating the obvious.
There was this comic I saw about Adam and Eve. It read, “When Adam told Eve that she was the only woman in the world for him, he was merely stating the obvious”. I’m sure Adam loved Eve – wait – he had no choice, really. The Idea that a Christian can ‘miss it’ in marriage, howbeit slightly true, has made many people deliberate in their minds on the fact that they have options. They go about after every problem in their lives looking for where exactly they missed it. A ‘man of God’ once told a disconcerted man that the source of the problems of his life was his wife. And as a result, he was not supposed to have sex with this woman until further notice. Who was he supposed to be having sex with? During a singles summit, the preacher said there are things you must know before you choose someone you want to marry, and the first and most important one is that she MUST be a believer. No Questions! Paul said:
Have we not the right also to take along with us a Christian sister as wife, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas (Peter)?
That’s the point not to miss. Don’t consider alternatives. I read from a friend just this morning about how his girlfriend has been on and off, hearing from God and ‘unhearing’ about the relationship. When the realities dawned on her that she was about to miss her Val gift, she tried to make amends. Alas, it was too late. She was dating an Igbo boy. Even in marriage, some people start to consider the fact that they’ve missed it. And you expect the marriage to work out. Are you a learner?

Who is this my fiancée sef
Let me tell you what I love about my girlfriend. We don’t go and pray in sports – we don’t have to. She doesn’t force me to fast on Wednesdays – not at all, but when we have to pray together, its pure bliss. I know her parents and they know me. I didn’t have to go and meet them in a semi formal introduction style. My girlfriend opts to pay for things, she buys me gifts and I do likewise. My Pastor knows about our relationship. We decided to inform him. She has cried in my hands before, I have voiced out my fears to her. She has five siblings. I go to her place and oh, she comes to mine.
On the other hand, my fiancée…oh my God, this is just a burden! We meet in Pastor’s house, my subgroup head has to sign the gift before I can give it to her. I have to have heard from God o, expressly…not the still small voice, and wait, have I prayed and fasted about it? Oh God, lest I forget, its Wednesday, our compulsory prayer and fasting. Now I have to feign sickness. Wait, if I tell her I am sick, she will come with bible verses for me to recite. Gosh, can’t I just be alone? I went to her family house to meet her parents as required by my subgroup head. Hope these people know there’s still a long way ahead of me. Her house was hmmn, intimidating. Not that they’re rich, no, her mum was asking questions that made me feel very awkward. Those were the worst 30 minutes of my life. I promised myself never to go back there.
My relationship with my fiancée is in everybody’s face. I was a former exco, and so, I had to date a very ‘spiritual’ sister. Isn’t it needless to say that her skirt must always be pleated and she can’t wear trousers? God! So it’s possible for someone not to have seen Star Wars, Lion King, Tom and Jerry? What do these people spend their lives doing? My fiancée…I wish I was the one who really took this decision to date you. How many siblings do you have? I’m sorry, after that official visit to your house, I completely blanked out. I do not know who I am dating…I mean maritally intended towards. Alas, I ask, who is this my fiancée sef?

I want to go and spend some time with her!
Time’s up! I want to go and talk (just talk, duh) to my wife. Our wedding anniversary is tomorrow. I love writing – a lot, and that was my big excuse not to talk to my fiancée. I was officially “in a relationship” with her. It was announced in my fellowship, and it was on the secretariat’s notice board. All the ladies gave me my space, while my fiancée encroached on my free space. It was hard discussing free flowing issues with her, very hard. She was my fiancée for 4 years (We started dating Part 2 first semester). I have to round off this piece. I gave my girlfriend an engagement ring after a year of dating her. I asked her to marry me. She said she would. I didn’t ask her to marry me that night at staff school, one year before I gave her the ring. I asked her to be my girlfriend. It’s funny we both knew what we wanted. And this is how…how I married my girlfriend and ditched my fiancée.

NB
My very good friend, Tolu also married his girlfriend. He always called her his girlfriend, and I really wondered if he was born again when I met him. Now, they are happy together with a child. Uncle Tolu, I hope another is on the way *winks*. And me? After I met my girlfriend, I kissed breaking up, goodbye!

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Okay....enough said! I joined nairaland because of this topic. If you've never had your pastor preach grace till the point where you ask "Shall we then continue in sin?", then, trust me, your pastor hasn't preached grace the way Paul did. Our little minds can't fathom God's light, love and grace. We're quick to judge, don't understand grace, love and the works of eternal salvation and redemption. I believe every new christian should be placed on Hebrews and Romans for 1 year. It is sad some people still don't understand the simplest things Paul was trying to say here. Let the Holy Spirit do his work, but meditate on the following verses:

1Pet.1:5 "who are protected by the power of God through faith (saving) for a deliverance (Rapture) ready to be revealed in the last time."
The logical approach.
If salvation is by grace through faith, then works are ruled out either as a means of salvation or as a means for its security, Eph.2:8,9.
If the new birth constitutes us as "sons", then our failings cannot change who our "parents" are, Jn.1:12,13.
The a fortiori argument: since God did the most for us when we were His enemies, how will He do less (keep us saved) as sons, Rom.5: 9,10,15,17,20.
The positional truth approach.
Direct statement, Rom.8:1.
The love of God for the believer is equal to God's love for His natural Son, Rom.8:38,39; cp. Eph.1:58, especially vs.6.
We already share Christ's resurrection, Eph.2:6.
The head cannot repudiate members of the body and continue to have a complete body, 1Cor.12: 13,21.
The family approach, Gal.3:26 "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus"; cp. Jn.3.
The Greek tense approach, Act.16:31 "Believe (aor.act.imper.) in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved (fut.pass.ind.)."
The typological approach.
Noah's ark, 1Pet.3:20,21.
The Red Sea crossing, 1Cor.10:1,2.
The breastplate attached to the ephod, Ex.28:22-28 (emphasizes security via the elaborate procedure for tying the uniform together: gold rings, chains, and a blue cord).
The approach from Christ's current ministry, seated at the right hand of God, to believers.
Mediatorship implies a go-between and is based on the Cross, Gal.3:20; 1Tim.2:5 (He represents both parties and, being perfect, He secures a settlement equally suitable to both parties); Heb.8:6; 9:15; 12:24.
He is our advocate with the Father, 1Jn.2:2; cp. Rev.2:10 (Satan is unsuccessful).
His intercessory work covers us for Phase 2 sins, Rom.8:31-34; Heb.7:2325; Lk.22:31-34 (for Peter).
The experiential approach, 2Tim.2:12,13.
We can deny Him in reversionism, but He cannot deny us salvation, since He cannot go back on a promise, vs.13.
He can deny us surpassing grace blessings in Phase 3 (SG3), vs.12.
The ministry of the Holy Spirit approach.
Regeneration, 1Pet.1:22-25. We are born of incorruptible seed (the gospel), not corruptible, therefore we cannot die, Jn.11:26b.
Indwelling, Rom.8:9; 1Jn.2:27. This is down payment or earnest on our resurrection body, 2Cor.1:22.
Baptism, see point II.
Sealing, 2Cor.1:21,22; Eph.1:13,14; 4:30. We are sealed with respect to the day of redemption.
The essence of God approach.
Sovereignty, 2Pet.3:9 "not willing..."; Eph1:58; cp. Rom.8:2830.
Love, Rom.8:38,39; Jn.3:16.
Immutability, 2Tim.2:13; cp. Jn.3:16; 5:24; 6:37; 10:28.
Veracity cannot lie, Ti.1:2.
Omnipotence, Jn.10:28; 6:39; 1Pet.1:5; Jd.1 "To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ."
Omniscience, Act.15:8. God is called o` kardiognw,sthj, ho kardiognostes; He "knows the heart" with respect to Cornelius and his household's conversion, cp.Jn.10:14.
Omnipresence, Ps.139, the example of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch.
Righteousness, the doctrine of imputation, which is forensic and irreversible, Rom.4:38; cp. Ps.32:2.
Eternal Life, Jn.3:15,16; 4:13,14 "Jesus answered and said to her, 'Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of living water springing up to eternal life'"; Jn.5:24,39; 6:39,40,47,54; 10:28; 17:2,3.
Justice. Christ died for all sins for all people, 1Jn.2:2.
Problem passages can be explained due to a confusion of Phase 2 and Phase 3 grace with Phase 1, Jn15:6; Gal.5:4; Rev.22:19.
Christ's prayer for eternal security of the royal family presents an area of His intercessory work, Jn.17:2,6,9,11,12,24. He prays for us and this is one of the things He prays for. Jd.24,25 "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling (reversionism), and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."
Soteriological (salvation) approach.
Since all sins were judged at the Cross, sins cannot undo our salvation, Ps.103:12; Isa.1:18; cp. Isa.53.
Since Old Testament saints had righteousness (+R) by faith (Gen.15:6; cp. Rom.4:3), their unbelief was not imputed to Him (Ps.32:2; cp. Rom.4:68).
Belief in Christ was the basis for salvation, Gen.15:6; Isa.28:16; Jn.3:5; 1Pet.2:6.
"And all who take refuge in Him will not be ashamed", Ps.34:22.
The believer himself can do nothing to negate the salvation adjustment to the justice of God, Rom.8:39 "nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."