₦airaland Forum

eamodu: .am not in abuja.d is no leakage.som1 told me,its hard n difficult 4 a 406 2 develop gearbox problems.

I said linkages or gear selector rods & fibers, not leakage.

If your clutch cable starts failing, the clutch pedal will be very heavy to depress. If the gear 2 & 3 could enter, then the issue is not the cable.

Like i earlier noted, there is no way 2 manual gearboxes will be giving you identical symptom. This is not auto tranny we are talking about. For the record, manual gearbox could outlive the entire car itself, as long as the correct manual tranny oil doesnt lack in the transmission.

Like i said, i cant tell from your description of the problem what is really wrong. Your explanation was not detailed. Can you in, complete words, explain the issue(s) with the 2 gearboxes, if any difference.

Ikenna

eamodu: I av a 406 wit a EW10 engine.i was avin gear problems.was unable 2 use,gear 1,4n 5.i wast told it was d gear cable.so i changed it.n d problem continued.so i was asked 2 change d gearbox,did dat also.but stil avin d gear problems.nw am bin told dat d gear cable i bought was bad.am tired of spendin money.wat should i do pls?

Are you in Abuja? If yes, I will have to see the car & check it myself to really know what the issue is.

But did they check the gear selectors/linkages before replacing the cable & the gearbox? The 2 gearboxes giving the same failure symptoms is weird.

Ikenna

samoy: Ikenna,u've not answered my question concerning other routine checks apart from changing engine oil,oil filter, fuel filter and d plugs. Waiting 4 d reply. Thanks

Hmm! What you are asking will take a whole day to list out & explain. I will make out time to do that, but might not be today.

Well, one of them is your brake pads. You dont have to wait till you start hearing friction sound whenever you apply brake, or when you have a total brake failure, before you replace the pads. As the pads gradually wear out, the brake pedal will be going half way down before the brake will be effective. So, as soon as you notice that the brake pedal goes down beyond were it used to stop for the brake to work, you then know what to do. A small touch of my foot on my 505 V6 pedal halts the car. Besides, i rarely use the brake. I brake the car often with engine brake, since its manual, which must only work if you give vehicles before you enough distance when in the city (no bumper to bumper).


There is difference between brake pad wear and air in the brake system. Both will give the same symptom on the brake pedal, though a little bit different, depending on how experience you are. Air in the system will give you a different feel on your foot while depressing the brake pedal. Also, you can know when air is in the system, instead of worn pads, via stopping distance braked to stop.


If you keep using the brake when the pedal goes half way or waydown to the floor before the brake work, then the master cylinder will die soon. Why? The more the master cylinder pinion goes in, the faster the seal & the pinion wear. Including the wheel caliper pinions. If the caliper pinion pushes out too much, because of the pad wear, the tendency of the pinion to rust will be high, since the it has been exposed to dirt, water, sand, etc. When it rust, it wont go back when brake is applied, hence, the pad of that wheel will start binding the rotor, which will kill or wear out the rotor/brake disk faster. So you will now have so many components to replace, just because you ignored sign of brake pad wear - PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE.

Ikenna

samoy: Thanks for d reply Ikenna. My lion has been so fantastic especially on a journey. Pls, wat are d other routine checks 2 be done on d lion asides changing d engine oils,fuel filter, oil filter and d plugs? Can u also post d pix of EW10 engine so as to know if mine is EW10? Thanks

You will find images of various 406 engines in the link below, which was provided by Thomasjohn

https://www.nairaland.com/973041/peugeot-406-ew10-engine-against#11249041

Ikenna.

akinreals: since u r married, it is not my car again, rather it is our car, u have to talk to your wife, if she agrees then tell her to keep d car key, if she does not agree, just forget about d car to avoid problem. God will still provide another money to buy better car. My 2cents though.

^^^^What kind of crap is this?





Op,

You are simply killing yourself, by the manner you are handling this issue. There are certain times in marriage the man, Husband or father of the house will have to take some tough decisions. You dont want this and thats it. It doesnt mean you dont mean well for the family. For crying out loud, thats the only vehicle you have and you are letting someone killing that vehicle and you killing yourself with anxiety. The way I see it, the problem is not your wife, but you not been man enough to say no to what is detrimental to the family. You think I dont know what you are going through? I will tell you. Every moment you go out without the vehicle, you are wondering if you will come back and meet the vehicle in the condition you left it. Whenever you come back, you will quickly rush, go round the vehicle, inspecting it to see if there is a scratch or what was not there when left it. You will even be inspecting the tyre thread to know if it rolled or not. Trust me bro, you are giving yourself bigtime High BP. If your wife doesnt know how to drive yet, let no one move the vehicle in your absence until she starts driving or have someone who can drive, and not a learner. Yes, am not married yet. But I grew up with my parents together. I knew situations were dad took hard/tough decisions for the family and I knew where it led the family to. He didnt need us to like all his decisions we thought were harsh, even mum. But whenever i look back, i would thank God for growing up under that man's house. It would be a different thing thing if it was your wife that driving and bashing the vehicle and not some fellow that doesnt know what it takes to keep a vehicle on the road.

Besides, how could you in the first place allow him to have touch the key in the first place? Is this not an SUV we are talking about? Does SUV handle and steer like a car for you to give a learner you SUV key? The turning radius of SUV and car are not the same. It would be a different thing if he was tutored with SUV at the driving school, which the 2 weeks is not even enough. For now, until he masters driving cars well, he shouldnt be near SUV steering wheel. Maybe, you are waiting for the day he would drive out and you will be called that your vehicle has knocked down and kill someone/passerby, then maybe you will realize the what you have caused, not him. Because we were all once in that stage in life when were like that. But the tough and harsh decision from the adults helped and prevented us from wasting ourlives and others too, at that early life.

No one is saying your wife doesnt have a say on the vehicle you both own. Two of you own the SUV, not your brother or her brother. The more he keeps driving that vehicle, the more you are having resentment for the guy, and if care is not taken, it will creep into your relationship with your wife. Stop it when you still can.

Op, am sorry if i have sounded rude or uncomfortable to you. I just felt very uncomfortable reading the quoted above post "... just forget about d car to avoid proble. God will still provide another money to buy better car..." To the best of my knowledge, thats completely off the track. You dont solve a problem by shying away from it. Meaning, whenever such similar issue comes up, you run away or you stopped been the man she married. Anyway, this thread actually shouldnt be in this section. Yours is a pure family matter. But do know that we are not suppose to tell you what to do or how to run your family. None of us have that right. If you know what is best for your family, please go ahead and do. I wish you the best of luck.

Ikenna.

mecussey: The smoke is white

Hope you are sure of the colour? Some do take the blue colour as white, since it wont be pure blue.

Anyway, if its white like you said, your car needs a cylinder head job. It could be only the head gasket that would need to be replaced, as usually the case. But you should know if the head gasket is faulty via other symptoms. Is the car overheating? Do you top or refill the radiator everyone now & then without seeing any point of leakage? Have you check for bubbles when you open your radiator cap few mins after first start in the morning?

If the colour is blue, then the rings, piston & cylinder walls could have worn. Does the oil level reduces frequently without any sign of leakage?

Ikenna

midpoint: what if the tyres are wobbling. what could be wrong?

A faulty tyre(s) or wheel(s).

Ikenna

mecussey: My engine rings are failing, is it better to change the engine or the rings? The engine still has full compression, sounds so good, and only smoke when i fire to maximum. I heard our Nigerian mechanics can't coil rings like the original and may not last upto 6 months after the coiling.

What colour is the smoke?

Ikenna

samoy: Thumbs up for d work u're doing Ikenna. Pls,my 406 steering shakes when i'm at 100km and above but my car is non-converted;its PAN. Pls,what might be d problem and possible solution to this. Also,my car displays ABS fault when d engine is started.

Have you done wheel balancing on the 4 wheels? That should stop the vibration, as long as none of your tyres is wombling and that your front end bushings are ok.

As for the ABS, did someone tampered with the wheel sensors, the last time you worked on any of the wheels?

Ikenna.

@ Trac & Yungboss,

Dis una grammer don too much. Mey una take am sofly sofly. Me i no do engineering o! Na ordinally Political Scientist i be. The only thing i sabi na spanner and sensor A or sensor B. All these grammer you guys are vomiting here sounds Abracadabra.

Seriously! Yungboss, there is no point trying to prove to anyone why you chose the car you have over others. I used to make that mistake, but have stopped it longtime ago. You. I mean, only YOU, knew what you saw in your car; you know why you prefered it over others and want to stick with it, as long as it takes. You don't have to convince me to believe in your choice. Yes, there could be other better cars out there. But what about it. Must you test all of them before you stop to exist? I can only leave a particular brand when it gives me reason to, otherwise, whats the point. To put it in another manner, must you keep changing wives or girlfriends, as you meet beautiful ladies you never imagined could exist on daily basis? You only have to take one, close the door and face other things in life. Unless that babe gives you reason to look for another (even though we could try to endure untill the thing no gree work again). But then, we have so much in life to explore than to keep limiting our precious time on one thing, changing it over and over again, just to get the full test & satisfaction of it, when there are more things in life to pursue and conquer. Thats how I see cars.

Hope I didnt derail that much?

Ikenna.

Ndata: Thanks Ikenna it's just that i have heard such complaints (PEUGEOT electrical problems)from many people in the past and hearing it again from this guy I'm rather confused.

Then I would advice that you leave 406 and buy Camry. Every brand has peculiar issues. Electrics is the Peugeot issue. They can be very annoying when they come up. But ain't complaining. Because I deal with my mine as they come up.

The question you should ask youself is "what type of car's peculiar issue are my ready to live with, considering what I want in a car?" Whichever you can tolerate, go for it. But you will be deceiving yourself if you are looking for a car that doesnt give any issue(s). Its funny the way people would post here "Oh! I have been using this particular brand of car for 6 years and has never given me any issue". Of course, we can be emotional about what we like or love. But then, I always tell people that care to listen, "DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!", as Pac would say.

Ikenna.

Trac: A stumbling is a MAF issue and not a pulse issue from the idle speed control unit. Stumbling not rough idling but bad momentary idle that causes the engine to shudder (so the engine is killed). This is the symptom of a bad MAF. He wouldn't have gotten a proper start-up duty and then it goes all south within a minute or less. If he forces to rev it to keep it alive, it will rev inconsistently across the tach as it tries to faint. It killed the engine not fluctuating the idle up/down and leaving it in that state. The check-engine-light should also not be cleared for it isn't suppose to after service. It will reset itself. This is for adaptability. Also, diagnosing ICV's starts with testing the sensor with a multimeter for voltage drops and proceeding to the valve itself. If the fault is at the control sensor, changing the valve will not help.

Throttle body is completely off-limits in isolating the problem. However, it is strongly recommended to clean the whole thing with the entire intake along with the flame-trap (if the vehicle has one).

What Honda is he referring to?

He was referring to the fifth generation Honda Accord '94-'97.

I think Honda used AFM in their old cars and not MAF, i think.

Ikenna

pannyman: Clean the throttle body with carburettor cleaner. Also dust out the air filter.

Your engine is starved of air because the throttle body is clogged up with dust.

He should leave the Throttle body for now and deal with IAC (idle Air control valve) first. From the symptom he described, its idle related.

@Op,

When the throttle body butterfly closses, the IAC bypassed air from the air filter box into the intake manifold, to keep supplying air needed for combustion. If the IAC is dirty or clogged, the valve inside wont be opening and closing properly when the throttle body butterfly opens and closes.

If I were you, I would pull out the IAC, clean it with carb cleaner, allow it to dry, lubricate it with engine oil before mounting it back. And make sure the socket is well plugged in.

No matter how you clean your thottle body and the IAC is still not opening as factory, the engine will never idle properly. It will always stall. But it wont hurt to clean the throttle body afterwards.

Ikenna.

Ndata: @Platinumricky

Ikenna what do you have to say to this assertion.Do you concur?I know you are an expert on Peugeot.

Am not a fan of reliable cars, but the durable ones. Am not a fan of Point A - Piont B cars, but a fan of powerful good road handling cars (handlers). Am not a fan of Beautiful cars (Asian cars), but a fan of Handsome ones (Euro cars). I didnot join this forum to convert people to French cars. So I will be straight to the point.

Sometime early last year, there was this heavy rainfail one particular night. I woke up the next morning, prepared for work, jumped into my Peugeot 505 V6, cranked the engine, but it hard started. When it eventually started, it was terribly rough idling. I killed the engine, tried it gain, it started but was still terribly rough idling. I killed it again. "What could be the wahala?" I asked myself. No idea. Then my eyes caught pool of water on the passenger seat/side flow mat. It struck me "ECU!" (Because the 2 engine ECUs were mounted directly under the glove box). I pulled out the ECUs. Lo and behold! Water was dripping from the Injection ECU, while the Ignition ECU was dried as i left it. I was so sad. Where could the water have entered from? I just couldnt find it. I wasnt sure what to do. But I believe so much in Bosch (which is the brand of the ECU). Anyway, I removed the ECU cover and more water flowed out from the ECU. Hmm! I left The ECU uncovered and kept it beside gear lever, closed the door and left to work with public transport. I came back in the evening, checked the ECU and it has dried. I put back the cover, plugged back
the ECU, cranked the engine, it started and was idling damn smoothly. Hmm! I couldnt believe it. I revved the engine and it revved smoothly to red zone. Again, water entered the same ECU, for the 2nd time, the same last year. I repeated the samething and all was good again. I then relocated the ECU from that spot, pending when i find the spot where the water is coming in from, since it only happens when there is a heavy rainfall. Its over a year now. The car has been running with that same ECU, with all the long distance trip i have done with the car till date, the ECU is still functioning. This is the same PEUGEOT PEOPLE WOULD CRITICIZE THAT HAS UNRELIABLE ELECTRICS! I have heard and read so many post of people complaining of the death of their ECUs of various brand of vehicles, just
because water touched it. Correct me if I am wrong.

I don't own a 406, so i cant really prove
anything. I only get information on 406 from previous and present 406 owners review. But do know that what is stopping me from becoming an owner of phase II Peugeot 406 V6 5-speed manual (ES 9J4S) is because the money ain't ready. I careless of negative thought people have about the car.

Peugeot 406 is a car, a ride, a French one. Its not a perfect ride. So if you are looking for a perfect car, Peugeot 406 is not for you. Look elsewhere and goodluck with the search for the perfect car. Oh! Do let us know when you find one.


Ikenna.

I want to share with everyone my experience with my 505 V6 in September last year, 2011, when i travelled with it to East, to spend 4 days and drive back to Abuja.

I set out for the trip on Saturday, 03/09/2011 & got to my parents house peacefully. I stayed with them for 3 days & decided to visit other people on Tuesday 06/09/2011,before i would return back to Abuja the next day 07/09/2011. I drove out in the morning of Tuesday, 06/09/2011 & drove straight to Nnamdi Azikiwe University, Awka, to visit a relation of mine there, a Staff, who have been looking forward to see my newly acquired 505 V6. I finished with my relation & drove off to visit other relations at Enugu town, which is about 90km, about 1hr drive on a Onitsha - Enugu Expressway. Half way, something terrible, a near death experience, happened to me.


Its a divided 4-lane expressway/highway. But because one side of the road was too bad, ever vehicle was now using 2-lane (face me & face you). There was this on-coming vehicle from afar, a Truck/lorry, & a 18 seater Toyota mini Bus (aka Hummer), full with passengers, was following the truck behind, wanted to overtake the truck. All of a sudden, the Bus driver lost patience in waiting for me to pass before it would overtake the truck. The Bus entered my lane trying to overtake the Truck before i would reach them. But i was already so close to the truck for the Bus driver to have made that move. It was as if it was a joke. We were both facing each other (both our vehicles). we were few meters from colliding/crashing into each other, face to face. He thought he could accelerate fast, overtake the truck and swerve back to his lane before i could reach them. But he was wrong; too late for him to realize his poor judgement. Few feets away in colliding with the Bus, I swereved out of the road & Hell was let loosed! The two tyres on the right side (front & rear) jump onto the side of the road (the tared road was too high from the untared side of the road) which was full with gravels/stones. The car lost control, still on top speed. The car tail shifted by the left, the front end pushed to the right. The car repeatedly was moving sideways and back, to & fro. The right side 2 tryes were still on the untared road while all that was happening, making screeching loud noise, the passengers in that Bus were screeming. I thought the car would somersault. Those same moments, there was an explosion! The car, all of sudden on its own, became stable again. I steered back to the road & the speed by then had started to reduce. All those while, i didnt touch the brake. I allowed the steering wheel to be steering the car itself (no input from me) & the car was steering itself sideways & the car became stale again all by itself. Wonders shall never end! The car came to a halt when i finally applied brake, though the steering wheel was vibrating all those seconds it was happening. I parked & came out. Went round the car. The right front tyre was the cause of that explosion i heard and the source of the steering wheel vibration. It was flat. The edge of the road must have punctured the tyre when it jumped from the road to the untared roads, full with pieces of small stone/gravel and very unlevel ground. All these happened in seconds. In seconds, my car would have somersaulted; in seconds, i would have lost the car; in seconds, i would have been a History! All, if not for the PEUGEOT 505 V6, would have happened!


I could hear the occupants of the Bus wailing inside the Bus as the Bus was fading, believeing that something terrible must have happened to the 505 & whoever was driving it. The noise from the screeching of the tyres was too loud for any living being around to hear. The Driver of the Bus didnt stopped. He was too scared to face what he caused, if something had happened, I believed.


I waited for my spirit to come back. After some mins, jacked the car, removed & put the spare tyre. Continued with the the journey to Enugu, got to my destination, drove straight to Coal camp, bought another brand new tyre & replaced the damaged one with it, since I would be driving back to Abuja the next day. This was one of the 4 brand new Tyres i replaced 3 days before I set out for the trip. Hmm! Anyway, the next day, i drove off again, back to Abuja, which was 7 hrs highspeed highway drive (532 km). Life on the highway!


It was when i got back from the trip, to Abuja, that i reflected on what really happened that day. First, God played a role that day in the event (Gods miracle). Two, 505 miracle! Then 3, my long experience with highway driving (always be ready with quick decision with unexpected/eventuality on a highway). If I wasnt experience enough, I would have touched the brake pedal when the car lost control for a while & that would have made the car to completely lose control. But like I said, God made it possible by taking control of the steering wheel, the tyres, the complete car while it was moving side by side.


That day, that afternoon, it was face to face with death, prevented by God & my 505. I have driven so many cars & knew how they
would
have behaved in such incidence, even on a little incident, with low speed. But this, i couldnt imagine what would have happened if it wasnt the 505. I know what i have suffered in the hands of this car since i owned it, trying to fix numerious issues it came with. But that day made me realised its all worth it! I have had accident twice before, with non Peugeots, with just little incidents not even close the deadly one of this nature. One, i was the one driving. The other, I was been driven. That incident on the 06/09/2011 made me realised one thing " i sowed & reaped something valuable".

The nature of our highways was what made me to change my mind from purchasing quick 505 GTI I4 (ZDJL) & instead, chose a quicker one,a 505 V6 (ZN3J), a fast accelerating car that would be able to overtake a long queue of trucks on our highways in 2 or 3 seconds. If the Bus had had a fast accelerating engine, that incident wouldnt have happened. But a driver should be experience enough to know how good the engine of a car he is driving is in acceleration before he makes such move to overtake a long truck or queue of trucks when there is an on-coming vehicle. Patience is what & all it takes for a driver to keep himself alive whenever he or she is on a highway. Not everyone driving a car on a highway knows this. Besides, not everyone on a steering wheel is a Driver anyway.

Not every car , even the newer ones, can handle as good as the predictable 505 V6 in an unpredictable situation. I used to believe in "Always go for a Reliable car". But since that incident with that car, the perception has changed. I love Long distance driving. In fact, ist a hobby to me. For that, all i care about to have is a car that is designed for highway, no matter how unreliable people would claim the car to be. Each time i look at that car; each time i remember that I own such a French car; each time i remember I own such Lion, I would just smile. I couldnt help it but to name it MY BABY!


I dont know about you and your experience with your Lion. Good or bad, lets share it.


Ikenna.

gulfer: @Ikenna, its good when we see these and report appropriately, did you use the report button to alert the moderators?

More than twice, I have reported this post and others. But it appears the moderators are on break.

Reporting isn't enough. You cant discourage people from breaking rules or laws if there is no purnishment awaiting offenders.

Ikenna.

I have said it, the moment moderators start banning people like this poster here, that moment we start having sanity here. I have even reported this thread several times and nothing seems to be happening. Good work moderators.

Ikenna

bigx: Perfectly said, please can u suggest basic tools I'd need for DIY for basic mechanical things on a car? I've my allen keys and plier already. Since I got my manual & I've been following this forum, it irritates me seeing mechanics trying to confuse me with wrongly placed grammer.

BTW Thanks, I fixed the Power steering issue myself, it was the oil that was finished.

Good to hear that your PAS issue has been sorted out, by yourself. Of course I knew the moment i read your post that the issue was not PAS pump failure. Only a broken PAS pump belt and lack of oil in the PAS pump would give such symptom.

You have gotten the most important tool for DIY, which is the manual. When i said manual, I mean the wiring diagram/Electrical manual and workshop manual of the car, other than the owners manual. Take your time to study the workshop manual to know the location of components or sensors in the car. The workshop manual will have the factory resistance and volt values of all the engine sensors & components, when tested with Digital Mulitimeter (Multimeter cost N200, N500, N1000,etc All do the same work). Google to find out the functions of each engine components or sensors. Print them and keep. Also google & print the symptoms a car will give when each of the sensors and components fails. When your car starts giving you a particular sypmtom, go back to your printed materials. Check for components that would cause such symptom. They could be more than one components or sensors. List them and check up their factory resistance & volts values in the workshop manual, look for the location of the components in the W/shop manual, study how to test each of the components which will be explained in the W/shop manual with Digital MulitiMeter or you google how to safely test the components with Digital Multimeter (if you are scared of breaking or damaging something) and then get to work. By the time you get to the 3rd or 4th component, you must have found the culprit. This method is called "Elimination Method". It helps one to fully understand his vehicle, how it works, what makes what to work, etc. With this method, your vehcile can hardly strand you on a long distance trip, whether the OBD II scanner is with you or not. You gain a lot of knowledge via the Elimination method. Its the cheapest method.

OBD II scanner is the fastest and easiest tool in troubleshooting and fixing vehicle for a DIY. The scanner will simply tell you what the culprits are. With the W/shop manual, you find the location of the culprits, replace them and the car is back to normal again. But sometimes, you will need the Elimination method to be sure that the component pointed at by the scanner is truly faulty. If the scanner says the culprit is no response of oxygen sensor to the engine ECU, it could be a broken wire that caused the loss of signal of the sensor to the ECU. If you quickly rush and buy the o2 sensor without testing the sensor with DMM (Digital MulitiMeter) to be sure the sensor is faulty, you will end up wasting the money and the problem will remain. If you test and findout that the sensor is reading the factory values with the DMM, then the problem must be with the connection: a broken wire, sensor socket corrosion, etc. Most times, you maynot have to spend a dime to fix a serious issue with a car when elimination method diagnosis is applied.

One good thing about Peugeot is that all the wires in their vehicles are numbered (numbers are stamped on them, for easier identification). Thats how it will appear on the wiring diagram too. With the wiring diagram, you will know where each wire in the engine bay is coming from and going to. You can even build a new engine harness (engine wires, from engine ECU to the engine sensors) in every Peugeot car yourself, if you have the wiring diagram.

As you can see, one fixing his car is not a big deal. You will even do it better than anyone else. With elimination method, it will get to a point when you will have all the factory values of the engine sensors off head. You will even become a Guru within a short while.

Ikenna.

[

karaye: @ikenna what is the meaning of immobiliser and MOT

Immobiliser: As the name reads.

MOT: Ministry Of Transport. Its a periodic check of vehicles in UK by their Ministry of Transport to know vehicles that are road worthy. If a car passes the check, the owner would say his car passed the MOT.

Ikenna

Trac: Not at all – don’t get me wrong.

I responded only to your first paragraph not the second or your personal experience. As I stated, the first paragraph (i.e. concluding with “on the road you see today). I don't see how I would profit from discrediting your personal experience(s) or be angry anywhere.

Pardon me if my response was vague. It is an inherent limitation in written communication; emotions and point-of-views are sometimes not conveyed.



This is what I responded to. The only thing correct was the quick-ratio steering.


This is truly emotional and not even factual. In manufacturing, it is opposite. An autopsy of a BMW definitely will deter you from using your own hard-earned money into purchasing one. The build underneath its magnificent garb is not what many would expect. A car made of aluminum and plastic does not worth the premium price as oppose to aerospace light-weight-high-strength-steel. Many of the BMW’s are not fully German. Some are partly American (do your research on that). It is a small company with little capital compared to Mercedes Benz. We don’t have to talk about combustion technology because there is nothing to discuss on this aspect. If you want to delve into this aspect, bring to my attention a BMW model that had its engine mounted in the entire chassis and driven at top speed for 27 hours (neglecting refueling) as a part of quality-control. A hint: many cars can barely top-speed and remain on that notch for 15 minutes without a drop in mechanical efficiency. Another thing to note is that was civilized while doing so.


You highlighted stability but you were only right to one degree; a very limited degree indeed. This also is vehicle motion and configuration. The vehicle itself is configured or setup with steady-state* forces/acceleration (lateral, longitudinal) and transient (which is dynamic) state forces/acceleration (lateral, longitudinal) and steer relationships (or slip angles; which is how much you run wide from intended direction). The characteristics are logged and the best set-up that applies to the widest range of road-conditions is configured. It might sound easy but it takes months plus cold-weather tests are factored in. In most of these cold-weather conditions, the test-vehicle is shipped to a region that is completely ice in land (somewhere in Europe). What’s my point of view here? In response to your initial reply, a Merc is factory configured in a particular way that favours a wide variety of conditions plus occupancy safety. The softer turn-ins and softer ride is deliberate for the sake of predictability and safety. If you are getting to the limit assigned to the particular model by MB, you will understeer and your human instincts kick in. You will have to reduce your velocity and in some cases, renegotiate your cornering attitude. This practice is called “terminal understeer.” All road-going cars have terminal understeer to prevent the driver from going anywhere close to the limit. BMW’s have lower terminal understeer; after all, you shouldn’t be driving a BMW if you don’t have basic knowledge about driving dynamics. The M’s are the worse: no margin at all. It is a very unforgivable vehicle and once you hit the limit, you will be out of control. It is to a great advantage when done right. If you want a vehicle with near-neutral** handling or neutral handling**, then it is up to you. You modify it yourself with the understanding that the state of your vehicle is suited for you with an altered state of reaction if the need calls for it in emergencies. Whatever you do, you just don’t dabble near the limits of your vehicle because you will get no warning as you reach your performance envelope. BMW's are firmer for a sportier ride but there is a trade-off.


Better suspension: another emotion conclusion. I don’t know how to tackle you on this one because it is quite wide and I am not sure where or how your opinion was drawn. MB’s chassis is very complex and BMW’s are no where as close. A chassis that integrates performance and comfort with torque factored in cannot be compared to a chassis designed and optimized for performance alone. It isn’t easy building a chassis as MB does – on rough roads, most of the vibrations and impact is absorbed and spread throughout the chassis, leaving a filtered-out impact to you. The ride quality in BMW’s is not pleasant. The setup is best for twisty roads. You might argue that it is performance oriented but the 911 Turbo S refinely comfortable, yet the performance around corners is remarkable. You can imagine how the lower 911 models would fare greater in comfort and refinement.


You are correct about the steering feel. Slow steering ratios and little feedbacks. It has been refined but it’s still to the same progress. It is what is selling. That is what people want. The Cayenne Typ 958 sold well and people traded their Typ 957 for the 958 due to these remote characteristics. Porsche has transitioned to electric steering also.


Above all, your mentality is old. Your perception of MB’s and BMW’s is old. That idea died in fall of 2009. Mercedes for the first time integrated performance without an acceptable depreciation of comfort/ride quality in their model 212 E Class and serious torque to match. This is for the normal series models. The was to reflect the 124 models but with advance technology. This ate into BMW’s market share. The last BMW (model after the E60) has been softened and not as wild as the previous models have been known for. This, I believe was a last-minute conclusion over foresight predictions; the chassis is still sport. The current E Class as boasted has more than 80,000 patents in one build alone, as announced by Mercedes.


The reflections a driver gets from a BMW:

• A non-conservative styling
• More machine interface: quicker steering ratio, unrefined tactile feel of certain duties (clutch, brake, gas, manual gear lever changer)
• Engine that is biased for horsepower, hence the exhilarating effect
• Chassis compliance to stiffness


_{*Steady state is linear motion at constant speed and cornering.
*Lateral force is cornering forces
*Lateral accel is increasing velocity upon cornering forces
*Longitudinal forces is the forces that are before and after acceleration
*Longitudinal accel – accel/decel upon longitudinal forces
**Neutral handling - when lateral acceleration is applied, it doesn't understeer or oversteer but goes the intended geometry as the driver steered}




This isn't anywhere as true.



Many cars require a technique to go fast around corners. The Corvette, Viper and some other vehicles bluntly handles poorly. Professional drivers can tame these vehicles for they are experienced. Also, road-going cars are not the standard for how well a car handles. This can only be concluded when you have acquainted yourself with the racing championships. This alone will change your perception.

Trac, even though i have disagreed with you once, i quite agree with you on this.

No offence to BMW fans, but the way you guys make noise about having the best road handlers don't add up. How can you claim you own the best among the best, when you have not tested or used all the best to back up your claim? Yes, we can be emotional about our vehicles, but shouldnt be extreme.

The very first time, the very fist day i drove old school Benz E-class (V-boot), i was so impressed. The steering feel and the over all car character was out of this world. Am not a fan, but I respect that car. If thats how the modern Benz cars handle, then it would be wrong to consider benz as a non-performer. Let the truth be told, everyone would like to own Benz, but not everyone can afford to keep such machine on the road.

Am yet to drive a BMW, to know how good they are too. But trust me, i admire them whenever i see one passing. Pardon me, am a RWD and Euro car freak. I like the looks and specs of E46 328i (I6) and wouldnt mind to have one. But the leg-room will be too small for me (am 1.90m or 6ft 3.5" tall). Too small for my height.

Well, I love my Lions and plan to add another, by the Grace of God.

Ikenna.

VolvoS60: ^^^Thanks, ikenna. I'm already familiar with carsurvey - i just wanted to get detailed real world experiences of users here in Nigeria outside Abuja and the big urban centres. I am seriously considering enrolling for a technician's course so that I can troubleshoot any potential problems if i were to decide to get a lion/camel for myself. Kudos to you - I think you once said in a prior thread that you were a self-taught mechanic. That's the way to go - car ownership becomes a joy when a user/owner can take care of most of the everyday faults (or at least can hold his own against the sharks who call themselves mechanics )

P.S. I had no idea that Nigerian mechanics call catcons "indomie". . .

DIY or one knowing how to fix his car is not a big deal. Its called INTEREST. Problem with Nigerians is that they see themselves working on their vehicles as stooping too low. Even the whiteman's world that owns that technology; even the whitemen that used those vehicles for years before they get to our shores intact, were fixing the vehicles themselves. When we start making small money, we start feeling too big to do certain things ourselves, as if we are richer than those that used those vehicles from new and were fixing them theirselves, before they get to us as the 3rd or 5th owners. Check various auto forums online and see how good an average vehicle owner in the whiteman's world is in troubleshooting their vehicles. Am not even close to them, with the little knowledge i have.

Ikenna.

platinumricky: Which generation of the camry? And which model of the Lexus?

Generation of any of the Toyotas has nothing to do with generally how reliable auto trannies can be, when compared to their manual counterparts. Like i noted before, some tend to tolerate the manner of abuse their Nigerian owners meted out on them: wrong ATF fliud, constant use of D (drive) when in traffic jam, etc. Toyota auto trans could be one of them. But all auto tranny are susceptible to failure in the early life of the vehicle, unlike the days when 3-speed auto trans were been used, such as the ZF 3 speed trans: a damn reliable auto box in those days.

Am not discouraging anyone interested in Toyota Camry. But you should have it at the back of your mind that Camry auto box is not left out out of sudden unexpected early failure too. Just saying!

Ikenna.

platinumricky: Camrys with automatic transmission are not really
troublesome (just stick with the recommended transmission fluid), U̶̲̥̅̊ can also search for a stick-shift camry.., XV30 series with manual gearboxes are very rare (i have only seen two lately). As for the 406...stay away from the automatics.

Two of my colleagues that drive a Toyota Camry and Lexus both had failed aut transmissions last year. The one that drives Camry replaced his, while the one that drives Lexus rebuilt his. Unfortunately for the Lexus guy, the transmission failed again, just 2 weeks ago.

Just be ready anytime for auto trans replacement, for whichever brand, if the auto trans is your choice. They are all prone to failures, not just Honda's. Though some maybe a little bit tolerant of abuse, which we are very good at. But do know the main killer of auto tranny is traffic jam. If you are staying in Lagos, always be prepared for the replacement, whenever it decides its your turn to weep.

Ikenna.

Peugeot left USA and Canada in 1993. 505 and 405 were the last Peugeot products sold in USA in 1993 before they left. North American market (except Mexico) never got 205,206, 207, 306, 307, 308, 406, 407 and 607.

Ikenna.

asaig: Please what could be the problem when a 406 gives u the ENGINE IMMOBILISER FAULT & ABS FAULT pls.

BSI wahala! (Body System Interface). I believe your 406 is the phase 2, since phase 1 didnt have the BSI. A lot of things could trigger on that fault lit on the instrument cluster. Becareful the way you slam the car doors, it could trigger it on and the car wont start. Always make sure you shut the door before switching on the ignition. Becareful the way you play with fuses. Remove any of the battery terminal heads before pulling out any fuse. Any spark could send surge to the BSI and toast it. Dont play with the two battery terminal heads, sparks from there will give you the same symptom. Dont ever let water touch the component. Its not water-proofed.

There are two (double) blown relays, on the driver's side wing, which if any fails, you will get such symptom. The Engine ECU and fuel pumps get feed from those relays. If you can find them, replace both. It could solve the issue.

BSI and engine ECU are inter-woven.i.e, they talk to each other. If ECU stops to receive complete proper signal from the BSI, the ECU will shut the engine down. It will never start again, until rectified. If I were you, I would pull out the wiring connector/socket on the engine ECU, clean the socket thoroughly (with toothbrush or any soft brush), maybe with Methylated spirit, allow it to dry, clean the pins on the ECU with dry brush softly and plug back the wiring connector. It should clean off all corrosion that prevent ECU getting full signal from various engine sensors and the BSI. That could solve the issue.

It will be wise to scan the car, but that depends. If the issue is intermittent, you maynot pull any code(s).That means you will have to manually troubleshoot. In cases like this, experience is better than technology. This OBD II thing has been producing non-technical know-how mechanics and rewires worldwide. The newly produced mechanics and rewires now depends on scanner and where the scanner fails to solve the problem for them, they will be lost.

I will advice every Peugeot owner to aquire and have OBD II scanner or the Peugeot/Citroen scan tool. You can contact bigx who sales the Peugeot/citreon scanner, specifically manufactured for PSA products. Its better for you to pull the codes yourself, get the meaning of the code, before you take it to any clown. If you know the component that is faulty, you will simply instruct the clown what to remove and put back and shouldnt go beyond there, to save yourself unnecessary nightmares. If you are planning to purchase a car, include the amount of scanner in the savings or what you need to have upto to get the car. Its not that expensive, considering it will enable you to protect your car from early grave. Because no matter how you want the car to be MINT, something must go wrong someday. Its man-made. Goodluck!

Ikenna.

Ogbajie: hey guys, this topic is just so cool. am in love with 406 because after i purchased my 406 2.0 engine, i can say that the performance is way better than my previous cars. I have been driving mine for about two years now but suddenly, I observed that the fuel consumption got very high. I contacted my local mechanics and i was advised to change a particular pot on my exhaust AKA 'indomie'. I changed this for about 30k at Apo in Abuja but it seems like it didn't really get the fuel consumption back to its original state. Please guys what can I do to solve this problem? i drive a lot and i will do anything to cut /normalize fuel consumption. If i cannot get solution to it, am considering selling it to get another 406 ASAP. Also my mechanics said i have to change my timing belt cos i haven't changed it since i got the car and it should be done after about six months...pls what do u think and does this affect speed performance of the car.. my car a times doesn't pick the way it should. thanks a lot

What the clowns call indomie is Catalytic Converter. Did the mechanic scan the car to know what the cause of rich running was before suggesting the replacement of the Cat Converter? What made him think only failed Cat converter would cause rich mixture? Not surprised though.

A lot of engine sensors or components would give rich mixture symptom when faulty. Cat converter is just one of them. Go and scan that car!

As for the timing belt and 6 months replacement thing. The clown was right, you ought to have replaced it immediately you bought the car, unless you know the car history or the last replacement date is pasted on the belt cover or somewhere in the engine bay. Average mileage of timing belt of most cars are 60 - 80,000 miles or km. It should take 5 - 8 years to cover such mileage. Since you are in Abuja, buy the timing belt kit (timing belt, tensioners and water pump) at any of the Peugeot Dealership in town. One is at Garki II. Another is at Area 7 or 8 (not sure of the number), but its very close to UTC. They sell genuine Peugeot parts there in retails. You can even do the replacement there, if you can afford it, but its wise and safer, so that nothing will go wrong. For the clown to suggest you replace only the timing belt without the tensioners and water pump is unbelievable. Stop opening your bonnet for them for every issue with the car. You can take the car to him for brake pad replacement, but not for things as delicate as timing belt and injection issues. What if Cat converter you replaced was still good and you now put a faulty one? How could he have tell a good cat converter, unless its a brand new one. I wont advice you to buy the timing belt anyhow, especially at that APO. I doubt their qualities, unless you plan to be replacing it every 6 months, as the clown suggested. Take note: 406 engines are interference engines. If the timing belt cut on you, while the engine is running, then you will have a lot to deal with, other than the belt.

Ikenna.

Dont try it.

Ikenna.

youngchopper: mine uses fuel n its up 4 sale. Engine overheat.

Please, this thread is not for advert or for you to post sales here. Am going to report your post to be deleted or moved from this section.

Ikenna.

boazic: dear ikenna, i do not in fact know why people think 505 is outdated... but i still fancy it as a young man. pls where and what is the best price of getting one. tanx. u can pls send pix to bnc2u@yahoo.co.uk

Outdated? You must be kidding me!

Now, mine has the following specs: Phase 2 (facelifted), Euro specs., 2.8 even-fire PRV V6 engine, RWD (Rear Wheel Drive), Power assisted steering, Climate control system(best ventilation system ever), Power windows, 4-wheel disk brake, 15" inches alloy wheels, ABS (though disconnected), 5 speed manual transmission,etc. And more importantly, an aggressive looking animal!

If you can get one that is as in MINT condition as mine, you will love it instantly. But i doubt if you can find one in the country that still look new, yet to be abused by Nigerian clowns that call themselves mechanics & rewires. A foreign assembled 505 is completely different from Nigerian assembled one, in all ramifications.

Ikenna.

VolvoS60: I see the Masai Mara/Serengeti pride is back in town. I know I am among friends here.

A close relation is considering buying a late 2000s model 407 station wagon/estate. What are the pros and cons of this choice? I don't want mechanics to leech off her so I need to make a strong case for trouble-free ownership after she buys the car.

Any ideas? How important will constant software updates be in the scheme of things? I don't know of any good lion mechanics who can interprete fault codes - hell I don't even know what the Peugeot software is! Lexia?

I really don't know much about 407. But I do know that most people that sold off their 406 to acquire 407 regretted doing so. They preferred the ruggedness and handling of the 406 to their newly acquired 407. Some as well prefered 407 to their previous 406s. Both are good, depending on the test of the buyer or user. Do know that 406 was the last Peugeot product desined by Pininfarina. An Italian company that designed 504 and 505. Ferraris were also designed by the Pininfarina. Ever wondered why 504, 505 & 406 are damn good road handlers!

Not withstanding, its should be as good as other Lions as well. Go through the link below. You will find all you need about the pros and cons of 407.

http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/peugeot/407/


Ikenna.