₦airaland Forum

patrickmuf:
I will be here to checkmate you whenever you have a dig at Ole...

You checkmate yourself.

Jose has proven this squad can at least win a trophy or two even if they aren’t the biggest trophies.

Van Gaal won a trophy with a shittier squad under the same owners.

If Ole isn’t winning anything under the same owners with a better squad, it simply means Ole is a failure.

Logic 101.

patrickmuf:
So, what should we realistically expect of Ole considering the role the owners have played as you claim?

Zero trophies
Top 4 position or thereabouts
Different excuses every season.

Ole will get sacked
Another manager would come in
Repeat the cycle

Jodera:
How many of them when signed was "signed to win the league"?

Robertson?
Wijnaldum?
Mane?
Chamberlain?
Shaqiri?
Fabinho?
Milner?
Salah?
Allison?

Which would you call " winning the league players" before their arrival to Liverpool

Nearly all of them - they were signed to address the weakness in the team.

When Karius pòoped his pants in the Champions League final, Klopp quickly signed Alisson.

United have not had a traditional winger since Nani left about 6 years ago.

United can’t even sign a football director in the last 8 years and you wonder why the team is underperforming.

The owners are shit, the structure is shit and they compounded the aroma of shit by signing one of the worst managers in history. A manager no other team in the top 6 would sign.

patrickmuf:
If you acknowledge the Glazers are the problem, why then do you want Ole sacked?

If you argue that Ole should be sacked, doesn't it imply we have a squad good enough to win the league?

I already addressed this but you are too far gone to pay attention.

The owners are bad & Ole is terrible.

Jodera:
How many of the current man city players can start for united team of 2007/2008?

The Man City of today are 200 times better than their squad in 2007/8.

The Man Utd of today are 4000 times worse than their squad in 2007/8.

That’s the point.

City are getting better and better, United are getting worse.

patrickmuf:
Liverpool have won the UCL and EPL in just a out the same time, pray tell, how much more have they spent?

We keep talking about rebuilding like we are rebuilding the world trade center...

Liverpool actually spent money in the key areas where they needed replacements

Alisson, Van Dijk, Mane, Salah, etc and majority of Klopp’s purchases are still with him.

Unlike United who sell high valued players to quickly buy another one.

patrickmuf:
What exactly is spending on players and spending to win the league?

So, spending on Mkhitaryan, Ibra, Pogba is spending on players...

Spending on Maguire, AWB, Bruno, VDB, Telles etc is spending on players...

Pray tell, what does it mean to spend for the sake of winning? So if the aforementioned players win the league this season, we'll say we spend on players and later to win the league? Doesn't it sound funny?

Spending on players = spending for the sake of it - buying bargain basement players that aren’t up to standard.

Spending to win the league = buying world class players that would easily fit into the other elite clubs in Europe.

If that is too complex for you, let’s try this.

How many current United players can start for United in the 07/08 team that won the champions league?

patrickmuf:
How much did we spend on Lukaku, Pogba, Maguire etc? With same amount, City will buy 6-7 players but no, they buy more players so we should blame the Glazers.

Lukaku - 2017 summer
Pogba - 2016 summer
Maguire - 2019 summer

Meanwhile, Lukaku’s money bought Maguire.

The richest club in Britain?

patrickmuf:
Bailly, Lindelof, Maguire...

Shaw, Telles...

Matic, Fred...

Pogba, Bruno, VDB...

Depay, Martial, Lukaku...

Dalot, Wan-BIssaka...

And the list goes on...You at the names you are dropping for City...lol

Between 2016 and 2018;

Pep signed 22 players, Jose signed 10
They both arrived at the same time in 2016 summer

City won the league title in 2014, United won it in 2013.
City reached CL semifinal in 2016, United in 2011.

It’s easy to know the club that has ambitions and the one that is snoring.

patrickmuf:
Nolito, Bravo...I can as well talk about James, Romero etc.

The difference Pep sold Nolito back to where he got it from under 9 months. He was not asked to develop him like United fans are asking their manager to develop Daniel James or Lindelof or Shaw.

Pep signed Bravo, Bravo didn’t work. Pep got Ederson as a replacement immediately. City had Hart, Pep didn’t even wait to see what Hart had to offer before signing Bravo.

This is what ambitious clubs do. Meanwhile, everyone knows James would never amount to anything but he’s still collecting wages at United.

It takes United 5 years to move their redundant players on.

nitrogen:
Lol, but you included them in your '38 players', right? Anyway, nobody is saying that big spending should stop, what we are saying is you should stop saying that the Gazers are not spending to win.

Money spent is money spent.

nitrogen:
Let's check something. You started by saying that they don't want to win the EPL because the monetary benefits are not significantly different (vs a top 4 finish), that's a very interesting way of thinking sha, but I will leave it at that.

Why bring it up if you have nothing to say about it?

Shallow grandstanding!

nitrogen:
Then someone told you that these same guys already spent over 1 billion since Fergie left, and then you came back to say that, yes they've actually spent, but they must outspend City to win the EPL. Question is, did Chelsea, Liverpool and LCFC outspend City before winning the EPL?

They spent 1 billion since Fergie left and then took 2 billion to service a needless debt. Imagine if an extra 2 billion was spent on players since the Glazers arrived, where would United be?

United won 6 or 7 league titles in the 10 years preceding the arrival of the Glazers. Now since 2005(16 years ago), United have won just 5 titles in 16 seasons.

United went from 70% league title success to 31% under the Glazers and you continue to lie to yourself that they have spent money and it’s all down to the manager.

nitrogen:
You need to gather your thoughts and present them clearly.

You might want to attenuate your thoughtless remarks once in a while.

nitrogen:
Haaaa, so you want to tell us that Arsenal, Tottenham, and Liverpool's transfer spending as a percentage of revenues exceeded Utd's 26% between 2013 and 2020? Only City and Chelsea had higher spending, and the margins are very low. City - 30%, Chelsea - 29%.

Perhaps it’s also the reason those two clubs are the only clubs that have won the league title twice between 2013 and 2020.

Thanks for making my point.

nitrogen:
This assertion does not make sense. It is the function of the manager and the system. Players in Bayern don't cost arms and legs but they play very well under their managers. Same with Real Madrid and Barcelona. In fact Pique, a fringe player left Utd to become a 'world-class' defender at Barca. There are no two ways about this, the managers of other clubs made their players become very good in our eyes. Today, most of our players will do well in other teams.

Bayern literally bully the other teams in their league. While their players may not cost an arm or a leg, Bayern took the best goalie in the league from Schalke(Neuer), best defender in the league from Dortmund(Hummels), best striker in the league from Dortmund(Lewandowski).

The equivalent of that in the Premier League would have been stealing Kane, Aguero, Hazard, Van Dijk, De Bruyne, etc in the last 7 years from United’s rivals instead of buying Daniel James, Wan Bissaka, Maguire and the other bums The Glazers are pretending are world class players.

Real Madrid and Barcelona break the transfer record every other year, your assertion is laughable. Barca paid £75m(Suarez), £140m(Neymar), £120m(Coutinho), £105m(Dembele). United’s highest transfer is £89m on Pogba despite having similar revenue with Barcelona.

nitrogen:
Lol, most of the so-called world-class players were average players in the respective former clubs. KDB was a Chelsea reject, Aguero was from a mid-table club, Sterling the headless Chicken? Kompany? Fernandinho from Shaktar? You don't know what you are saying. Pep made these guys world-class players. He will go buy average players and turn them to world class. Stop peddling lies.

You do yourself a disservice when you lie unashamedly that Aguero became world class under Pep. Aguero was destroying teams under Mancini.

De Bruyne was the best player in Bundesliga when Man City signed him. Maybe you don’t watch a lot of football outside the Premier League to call De Bruyne(Bundesliga player of the year 2014/15) a Chelsea reject.

When City signed him for £50m in 2015 to add to their midfield that already had Nasri, Fernando, Fernandinho, David Silva and Yaya Toure, United were signing bargain basement bums like Schneiderlin from Southampton.

nitrogen:
36 players from where now? Geez, are you including U15 and U18 signings? then Man Utd has signed close to 40 players. If we mention key players, Utd and City have signed about 31 and 35 players respectively since 2013/14 season till last summer.

I only counted the players with transfer fees signed under both managers.

nitrogen:
In conclusion, City spent 1.1 billion Euros and Man Utd spent 1.04 billion Euros between 2013 and 2020. Tell me how you came to the conclusion that the Glazers have not spent enough to win the league. They have, and they will continue to. One thing that I believe they need is the ability to move quickly (re: sacking and hiring managers). Football management and admin are dynamic, the earlier they realize that the better for the club. All top teams in Europe are successful because they are quick to bring on other managers. Fergie and Wenger's days are gone, it is what it is!

Why are you starting the count from 2013? What about players like Tevez, Kompany, David Silva, Yaya Toure, Aguero, Dzeko, Adebayor, Balotelli, Nasri, etc? We should just blow those ones away because adding them doesn’t fit your false narrative?

Why not calculate how much the Glazers have spent since 2005 till date and how much City’s owners have a spent since 2008 and divide per year? That would be a clearer analysis of which owners are more ambitious.

nitrogen:
Meanwhile, when you come up with assertions, make sure you have verifiable facts to back them up. You cannot just come here and be dropping numbers and analysis without thinking through them.

This is comical.

You came up with fraudulent stats to back up a wrong assertion and you call it facts. The Glazers have taken more than £2 billion from the club without putting their own money back into the club.

They have taken out £900m in the last 10 years - imagine if that £900m went into buying players instead of servicing a debt United fans never asked for. How people like you continue to support parasites like the Glazers is one of the reasons the club is stuck in a quicksand.

The Glazers know they can count on fans like you while they continue to bleed the club to death with zero glory to add to it. United’s peers in Europe dominate their respective leagues.

Madrid/Barca dominate Spain.
Bayern Munich dominate Germany
Juventus dominate Italy

Man Utd(a club with similar revenue) haven’t won the league in 8 years and you continue to lie the Glazers have
spent money.

Are you high on crack?

patrickmuf:
How is this the fault of the Glazers?

Who asked us to spend foolishly?

When Guardiola spent foolishly on Nolito, Claudio Bravo, Danilo, etc, he got rid of them as soon as they realized they didn’t fit in.

Chelsea didn’t stop spending big on players because Shevchenko or Bakayoko didn’t work.

Real Madrid never stopped spending because Kaka or James Rodriguez didn’t work.

Manchester United is the only club in the world where the fans want big spending to stop because certain players didn’t work.

TrebleChamp:
I want to disagree with this notion chief, the glaziers have spent over £1bn on transfers since Sir Alex Ferguson left. Of all the managers we've had post Fergie, only David Moyes wasn't really backed in the transfer window. The Glaziers are parasite no doubt, but they have spend huge money on transfers in the last 7+ years. Its not their fault that Ole and Woodward valued Maguire for £80m or Bissaka for £50m, its not the glaziers fault that United have done some really shitty transfer bizness over the years. The Glaziers have spent and will keep spending, its down to the Manager(s) to deliver the title with players bought at their request....

I hope you know there’s a difference between spending on players & spending on players to win the league.

It’s a myth that the Glazers have spent money. What percentage of United’s revenue go into buying players? You would find out it’s the smallest in the top 6 by a considerable distance.

United’s peers in Europe are Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich but I doubt any of United’s players get an automatic start in any of those clubs. That should be your first indicator that United don’t spend as much as their status dictates.

When Pep & Jose arrived in the summer of 2016, the only world class player in United was David De Gea. City had De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandinho, Kompany and Sterling.

Pep has gone on to add another 36 players to that list with a total outlay of £832m. Manchester United under Jose and Ole combined added only 19 players that cost less than £700m.

Yes, the Glazers have spent money but if they cannot outspend Man City who actually have a better structure and manager, there’s no chance we will ever see a Premier League victory under the Glazers.

The other option is to do it the Liverpool way - give an elite manager about 5 years to build a squad. The only problem with this option is Manchester United’s status. They are too big to give any manager more than 3 years to build a squad without a trophy. The fans will not sit through it.

Liverpool were able to do this because they had waited 30 years without a league title - the fans expectation was very low. And even if United fans become patient, United’s manager is not elite at all to see out the project.

In conclusion, United are in big trouble unless they outrightly outspend their rivals or sack Ole.

TrebleChamp:
Na Amaka we go beg make him no disappoint us again. If we win our matches and be consistent, we might have a good chance of nicking it from City. They are the favourite no doubt...

United can never win a league title under the Glazers.

It’s not like the Glazers don’t know what to do about adding elite players to the squad but it’s not worth their while and it does even make any sense from the business standpoint.

The difference in the prize money between the league champions and 4th position is less than £15m. The Glazers will need to spend at least £400m to overpower their rivals to win the league and apart from the bragging rights from fans, the reward is nothing.

Woodward is looking at the cost and effect and he’s thinking why should I use £400m to chase £15m prize money when he can just finish 3rd or 4th(qualify for Europe) and keep the £400m in the bank?

timay:
Lol. No one is treating him like trash. Man just wants to collect his big money and flex. Even Rojo had to compromise , as per his wages before a deal could be reached with the club he left for.

I remember last summer that Everton wanted him on loan before they bought Olsen, but our guy wasn't willing to take a pay cut. He expects Everton to foot his whole bill which they refused because those ones will still pay Man utd loan fee. All in all, he wasn't ready to be a third goal keeper and wants to leave , meanwhile no meaningful bids came for him that is favourable for the club. But the wife expect the club to let him go for free as if na so dem dey run business.
i'm sure if they run the club that way, it won't be around anymore as we speak.

All in all, united gave him a career , so all this talk about no way to treat him is trash. It was a mutual relationship. Being a second choice united goal keeper was what gave him clout and national team career in the first place.

Romero had his debut for Argentina under Maradona - 6 years before United signed him. How United gave him a national team career is giving him anxiety.

Give your head a wobble.

timay:
So after then what happened?

The last time I checked, Ole only stopped playing him in cup semifinals last year 2020, and to the best of my knowledge , he's stopped being Argentina no. 1 way before then. So don't blame his national team misfortune on Ole abeg. Argentina dumped him because they found a better number 1.

His situation is similar to Nigeria national team goalkeeper(Akpeyi). He's not the best of goalkeepers, to have in a decent team, but he's the best they've got at the moment, and they've got no choice. The moment a better option shows up, he got dumped.

After your blatant lie that implied he was dumped for the World Cup, you have the nerve to ask me what happened afterwards?

The same goalkeeper that won the last trophy for United is being treated like trash and you are in support of it because of a stupid PE teacher that cannot tell his left from the right.

Even if Ole has found a better goalkeeper, that’s not the way to treat people. If you don’t need him again, let him go. Don’t stall his career for the fun of it. That’s just classless.

KingAlabi:
But we should believe his wife

Wooooow!!!!!

Why would his wife lie about the situation of things?

Everton were ready to take Romero but United blocked the move. Yet, they won’t play him or sell him. They just made him redundant for nothing.

timay:
This is not true. As at 2018 world cup , Romero wasn't even Argentina no. 1

He was their number one, he suffered an injury a day after he was named in the 23 man squad.

olabode89:
He is not Argentina's no 1 GK. He won't even be no 2 at the moment. Only United will pay a 2nd choice GK 100K.

Ole refusing to play him probably demoted him.

He was Argentina’s top goalkeeper when Ole took the job.

olabode89:
You clearly don't understand what happened with Romero. Man is on 100K per week at United, during last summer transfer window Villa and another club wanted him. Romero was not ready to drop his wage demand to enable United get a suitable transfer fee and I guess this infuriated top management at United.

Over the years top management at United have been working actively on changing the previous norm of allowing players leave for peanuts or next to nothing. That is why the club utilizes the one year extension option on a lot of fringe players. Some years ago guys like Rojo and Fosu Mensah would have left for nothing, but the club got about 1.5M for Fosu Mensah and an undisclosed fee for Rojo.

Why should Argentina’s #1 take anything less than £100k/week when bums like Shaw(who can’t even play for England) earn £195k/week?

I also doubt your anecdote was what happened. I remember Romero’s wife moaning on the internet about United preventing her husband to leave after what he has achieved for the club.

Do not believe whatever nonsense United’s PR says about any situation - they lie a lot. It’s all about grabbing crumbs and bits for the Glazers. I think many teams will pay £100k/week for Romero. He’s a very good GK.

Oasis007:
Technically he's no more United Player.

He’s not sold and he’s technically not a United player.

The way Ole has treated Romero is very disgusting. I don’t remember him making any mistake throughout - he doesn’t complain with the limited games he was getting and they won’t let him go and try his career elsewhere.

That is poor man management. Ole should be ashamed of himself.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]You just gave 4 examples of coaches that can turn a 10 man deficit around. There are hundreds of thousands of teams on earth.

You think Southampton didn't want to park bus yesterday? Until you park bus and collect 4 goals, that's when you know how confused the situation can be.

You can't tell me a 10 man team is more frustrating to beat than an 11 man team. That's not true

Even teams with 11 men that park bus, the opponent still finds a way to win, talk less of a 10 man team.

There are exceptions, yes I agree..but it's not more frustrating[/color]

Playing against 11 men(Leeds) versus 10 men(Stoke under Pulis), which do you think would be more frustrating?

Oasis007:
Manchester United's 24-man Europa League squad: De Gea, Henderson, Grant, Bishop, Bailly, Jones, Lindelöf, Maguire, Shaw, Telles, Tuanzebe, Wan-Bissaka, Diallo, Fernandes, Fred, James, Mata Matić, McTominay, Pogba, Van de Beek, Cavani, Martial, Rashford

What about Romero?

izzou:
[color=royalblue]How can playing against 10 men be more frustrating than against 11 men?

There's nothing frustrating about 11 professional players playing against 10. They are most likely going to win.

What determines the game is the tactics applied by the affected team, and which player was red carded.

A team with a red carded striker will play differently from a team with a red carded defender.

Let's not even talk about the sharp drop in morale for the affected team.

That aside, United played well yesterday [/color]

He’s right, playing against 10 men can be frustrating.

If a team who initially wanted to attack and win a game of football is reduced to 10 men, you have forced their hands to park the bus.

If they are really good at Satanic football, the opposing team would be very frustrated. You wouldn’t want a team managed by Tony Pulis, Sean Dyche, Simeone or Mourinho to go a man down.

They would frustrate you till you give up trying to score against them.

BikeMan:
12 PL goals, 6 of them are PENALTIES.

BEST MIDFIELDER IN ENGLAND

Don’t be jealous United have a gunman and you have a rat in your club.

If Bruno isn’t the best midfielder in England, who is?

KDB had that title until Bruno arrived but things have changed now.

Bow down to King Bruno.

Doranzy:
I just hoped you enjoyed it
Fvck any olein or oleout shiiit

Man United fan to manunited fan

I am freaking happy bro

Make I go high

The beauty of the debate is that we all want the same thing - More titles and trophies.

Enjoy yourself, bro.

Doranzy:
Auto b*ot banned me for trolling shekpites

Haha

It was a good game which I wasn’t sure United were going to win with Ole’s line up.

Southampton cooked their own goose with that stupid red card and it was a carnival for Don Ole’s boys.

On to the next one.

Doranzy:
How far

Na kingalabi

How did you see the game today

What happened to your KingAlabi handle?

Daniel James makes it 9

The Welsh Cristiano has scored.

larride:
What a way to boost our goal difference.

One more and we will match Liverpool’s +GD.

Freeopod:
That's not a red card though

It’s a red card by the letter of the law.

He prevented an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

However, he would only get a match suspension.


Martial 8-0.

Bruno makes it 7-0.

2nd red for the Saints.

This is just too much for one team.