₦airaland Forum

vooks:
We just point to the vain hypocrisy of tithers who purport to tithe to fulfil 'all righteousness' yet they can barely keep the tithe Laws.
It all points to the absurdity of Christian tithing. It is supposed to be based on Torah but it is the FURTHEST thing from Torah. It is a mish-mash of convenient verses that demands ignoring and mutilating Torah to support it.

We call it what it really it, a late tradition which is un-scriptural and unsupported by neither OT nor NT.
How would a 400year late tradition find scriptural backing? Did Holy Spirit forget to teach these truths to all those generations of Christians?

Thankfully, God has not made you his customs duty officer. Christians don't need you as mediator or interface between them and God. You are in no position to dictate what Christians must give God. God is not complaining, neither is He mocked. It is self appointed customs worker without pay who have issues, telling others "No, no no, don't bring this one to God, bring that one instead". BRING YE ALL THE TITHES.

chysam:
I think you need some help here because like so many others like you,you no absolutely nothing about the bible and must have based your arguments purely on what your pastor says.

Thanks for trying to help me. However, the little of the absolute nothing that i know is good enough for me and my house.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Contrary to your assertions,God had so much qualm about tithing with money.Infact he advised tithers who lived fart away from areas he he required tithers to bring their tithes to sell their agricultural produce,travel with the money and upon arrival to the place should convert the money back to agricultural produce before tithing.

Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Here is one reason why i usually say that new comers should read previous and similar thread topics on this issue. i doubt if the old hands would come up with this lines even as staunch and avowed antitithers. Even the NL forum rules encourage your reading through and research before typing and opening new topics. We've discussed it severally, there were at three DIFFERENT tithes that the Israelites gave. The passage above is one. Verse 28 and 22 make reference to another two types of tithe. The one they were to turn to money due to distance was to be eaten by the tither. It wasn't given OUT/AWAY. Again read me carefully instead of twisting or forcing my words. God never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible.

Furthermore,it is of no business to a follower of jesus if or not the people of the temple tithed.If any one truly believe in christ,he must concern himself only with those things that he taught his followers.A christian has no business with whatever ensued between Jesus and the Pharisees because the Pharisees were never christians and refused to become one even though they had a 110% opportunity to become one.

Again, these are your opininons and you have a right to them. However, stop passing them off as bible or divine instructions.

A sincere christian in matters of tithing should ask himself this question,"Did Jesus teach me about tithing?".The answer is no."Did the apostles teach me about tithing?".The answer again is no.Then who taught me to be paying and receiving tithes?. Draw your answers and reasons from the Christian point of view.If any one foolishly argue that bible is one,both the OT and the NT,then he does not value the death of Christ.IF OT and NT were one,why were the non christians jews in conflict with the followers of christ?.The answer is very simple;because both religion disagree.Christ came with a new doctrine.For example,keeping the Sabbath was Gods law,but jesus broke it.In reality he did not break it,he was actually effecting changes which was clearly one of the reasons he came.Only those who beleived in him partook of those changes and tithing was one of them as is very clear in the scriptures.No Christian leader of jesus and the apostles era received that and every body knows this even todays pastors.So why must he receive tithes if his progenitors did not?. Is he better than them?. I challenege anybody here to tell me that early christians leaders received tithes.If they didn't,what other senseless prove is anybody still looking for?

Your concerns are duly noted. Please, try to express yourself as shortly as possible and at least with Bible verses. That way, it helps your teaching. The healthy way for humans to study the Bible(or anything i suppose) is to have a well rounded view and perspective, as against a one sided or lopsided opinion or perspective. If you want to study anything, topic or person in the Bible, you look at it wholly in making your deductions.
For instance, to study the crucifixion, one should AT LEAST look at all four gospels and their accounts. Then you can bring it together to understand, know and perhaps explain all that happened and that Jesus said on the cross etc. If i just took only Matthew or only Mark and turned a blind bigoted eye on the other gospels and even other correlating scriptures, i would not be doing the best in having a balanced and complete view. i break it down for example in these passages below;

---

Mat 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mar 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Joh 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the Scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

---

These 4 verses are saying something that one would/should understand better after considering ALL the four verses. One may come to wrong conclusions using just one of the verses, especially the first three. It's the same basic principle on any topic or subject. For instance, God If you read Genesis, one would/should see that God is the Creator, God is the Judge of the earth etc. But everything about God is not in Genesis. Some other scriptures would bring one to more understanding and perspective, like God is a merciful God, God is Trinity, God is Holy, God is Love etc. It's the same microcosm and principle employed when studying anything in the Bible. You want to study faith, Paul, love, Heaven, angels, tithes. you don't just take one verse and ignore the rest. That is how Bible study is done, or should be done. Try to employ these principles in your studies. i cannot help you much any other way.

chysam:
I am not surprised you have very little knowledge of the Bible. No where in the Bible is Tithe recorded to have been paid with Money.If you can show me any where it is written,then I will join the tithers.

Really? You don't need to join the tithers, they are doing just fine without you.

The command was absolutely agricultural produce.Secondly,you tactically parried a very vital question that should teach even a slowpoke that tithing is criminal in nature.I asked if Paul continued paying tithe after encountering Jesus.Remember he was from the Tribe of Benjamin and paid his tithes to the Levites.You must be up and doing with the laws of Moses before you can be authorised by the priests to persecute the Christians.

i don't have to answer any of your questions, i answer you at discretion and need. How many morons have your questions taught? The bold again is the needless assertion that we see from most antitithers and which is not the truth. i ask if Paul was ever paying tithe, was he? Most antitithers on this forum are of the OPINION that only farmers tithe, and that neither Jesus or His apostles ever tithed. Are you saying Paul was giving tithes before and later stopped? Lets me clear on your stand.

If you agree that Christianity and Judaism existed at the same time,can you please tell us the reason why the were in opposition with each other even though some idiotic minds claim that Jesus did not condem the law.Why was Paul sought after to be killed later on?.Why were the christians maytred if their own practices were in tandem with those who practiced Judaism? Please shed light on these few questions if you can,

Christianity and Judaism were not and are not in opposition with each other. That is akin to saying that the Old Testament and the New testament are in opposition.

Furthermore,In the last two thousand years,tithing is no longer applicable in Israel.There are no longer levite priests nor temples.Each and every christian as a living being is now a temple of God.The Israelite Christians do not pay tithe today because the same history affects them. Can you tell every one in this forum why Nigerians for example must keep an abolished Mosaic law of tithing? Please explain.

i live by the Word of God, not by the happenings in Israel. BTW, antitithers are the ones that insist that Mosaic methods of tithing must be kept. No tither preaches or teaches that. Antithers want us to tithe to Israeli Levites in Jerusalem etc, we say that's not necessary. Get it now?

You also said with infinity that Jesus Tithed.That people who practiced Judaism tithed in the temples,while Jesus' followers tithed in the cities.Can you please name the cities where Jesus' followers tithed?.For your information,Jesus did not tithe because he was a carpenter.Wood workers were exempted from tithing like some other groups too.

What does it mean to say with infinity? Where did i say that Jess tithed? These are questions you can answer i hope. Here is what i said again. Read it carefully this titme. "Tithe was paid in the temple and the cities. Judaism and christianity were also practised in the temple and in the cities. Do you know that Paul the apostle had sacrifices offered for him as a christian?"

Secondly,tithing and burnt offerings were for the remission of sins of the people of Israel and Jesus was without sins and there was no way he could have tithed and stood before sinful priests for confirmation of his burnt offerings acceptance. The only way tithers could perfectly make their claims fit in is to evolve another biblical version of how christians and the judaism practioners cooperated effectively.Only then would it make sense to say that christians tithed the time of the Apostles. Please learn to read and understand the bible clearly and not just quoting out of context.

Please back up these claims with proof or Bible verses.

italo:
Nevermind.

let me await someone who can sincerely answer the questions

What is the falsehood in what i said? What is the truth? i guess it stuck in your throat or you couldn't prove your allegations.

italo:
You just side-stepped the questions because answering them will expose the falsehood in your teaching.

No?

What is the falsehood in what i said? What is the truth?

The praise of men. You guys don't need to do that to pastor Kumuyi.

italo:
1. Does the visible Church hold on to millions of contradictory doctrines, as is seen today among those who claim to be Christians and claim to partake in the sacraments you mentioned?


2. Does the invisible Church hold on to millions of contradictory doctrines?

The church is the body of Christ, body parts are different from one another in a sense but in cohesion in the big picture.

MarkMiwerds:
aren't you twisting the Scripture a bit? It does not say increase of all things. It says

2 Chronicles 31:5 (KJV) 5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all [things] brought they in abundantly.

And, wouldn't new clothing, new furniture, new dinnerware, silver and gold earned by working men have been increase according to your definition?

The thing is, 1% of agricultural products in the Temple chambers is far more believable than 1% of increase of furniture, dinnerware, clothing, gold, silver, etc., being taken into the chambers. Especially in light of the fact that God said His hoy tithe was agricultural.

Aren't you twisting my words a bit, did i say "increase of all things"? Increase and maybe savings is what is used to buy new clothing, new furniture etc. Once tithe is given of your INCOME which is your INCREASE, that is already settled.
'believe-ability' is relative. Let's stick with what the Bible says, not what you choose as believable. ALSO, God didn't say anywhere that His holy tithe was ONLY agricultural. He never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible, that's the point.

MarkMiwerds:
Josephus records the Temple as being 485½ feet long× 145½ feet wide.

The Bible records that the tithe of all things was taken to the Temple. No matter how much Image wants all to not mean agricultural only, the dimensions of the Temple reveal that cannot be the case. Anything more than farmer's crops being tithed .
would have demanded a much larger Temple

Lol @Mark. We should assume and suppose that 10% of ALL Israel's agricultural produce MUST be less than the size of Josephus's temple. But 10% of tithes of all things that the Bible records CANNOT BE less than Josephus temple. Do you see why i say you are a bigot?
BTW, tithes talked about in that passage is of course on increase for that year. It wasn't a tithe of every property in Israel. Tithe is 10% of INCOME or INCREASE.bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase.

shdemidemi:
Good morning my dear brother.

You are completely free to claim and usurp all of the promises in the Old Testament save the curses.

You image123 can as well rub off the name of Abraham and be the father of many nations. Head up to Moses and claim his blessings too. take a swift swerve to the Jewish nation, claim their blessings as well. Don't forget the blessing of David and that of Saul.

Whatever you do don't claim that of Jesus though, I am sure you know how He and and his disciples concluded their service. Moreover, there are no money or wealth accumulation promises in the epistles so steer clear of Paul.

demisquare my good friend. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. He did not redeem us from the blessings of the Lord. The blessings of the Lord makes RICH. Here is the verse again, notice the bold part well well.
Galat 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galat 3:14 That the blessing of ABRAHAM might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Abraham's blessings are not only spiritual. BTW, one big question. Do you know the curses of the law? Can you list 5 or 7 curses of the law?

What sort of God says this sef-
Romans 8
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; [size=24pt]if so be that we suffer with him[/size], that we may be also glorified together.

That's my God. Read it again, especailly the bold part.
Romans8v17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that [size=24pt]we may be also glorified together[/size].

That is the same God that said we were supposed to REIGN in life.'
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign IN LIFE by one, Jesus Christ)

You really do not want me to start quoting what God has said, even NT only. You don't really want me to start.

Image123, how can! Tell God you don't lick blood soaked hand o, na Palm oil hand u want. Suffer ke! When promises dey. Abeg make we go search for promises to stand on for Old Testament my brother.. Abi?

i'm calling the mfm crew on you. So you are one of dem blood licking blood suckers? Take cover, my advice.

vooks:
her gender is not important. Don't push it. Am quite fine but I could do with a jailbroken iPhone 6+, so if you are led don't hesitate to do the needful

This hypocrite was telling Bidam not to talk less of women on November 7. Meanwhile the pretender knows that i am male, it is clearly indicated, and Gombs had earlier corrected him thinking he did not know. That was after he called me a she in october. He apologized then but can a leopard change his spots? It adds nothing to me on whether i am called a woman or a man, or any other name. Unfortunately, vooks thinks calling me a woman is derogatory and an insult. My handle remains Image123(m), i wonder why any professing christian would call anyone Mrs Dumbo Obtuse Esq. Go and visit calvary and obtain grace that delivers from hypocrisy, you have more issues than arguing about prosperity or tithes.

WinsomeX:
Do not answer a foolish man in his folly...

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Mr spiritual, who is a fool? Oh, sorry, you don't even know the meaning of the passage.

vooks:
I expect everything but brains,logic,sense,intelligence and wisdom from Mrs Dumbo Obtuse Esq.

Pro 11:23 The desire of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath.

You are hardly reading what i'm saying but asking the same set of questions like a programmed robot. Please think or make an attempt to. If you are interested in discussing, i would find time to, but if you are just interested in replying or regurgitations, i would ignore you. i don't give a hoot if you ever give anything to God apart from your being born again. i'm not here to beg you to tithe or not to. And please, it would help if we post shorter stuff, folks tend to get lost and not get much from unnecessarily long posts. So, to your reply;

chysam:
Comrade,your assertions has no correlation with the subject matter.You mixed a lot of things up and digressed so much.I think it is you who indeed need understanding more than anyone else.

i have made NO ASSERTIONS.

We are talking about a tradition that has nothing to do with followers of christ and not the jews who practiced judaism.The priest who was to receive information from the healed man was not a christian,so it does not matter to a christian whether he tithed or not.

What tradition are we talking about? Vooks has been the one very much interested in the leper and his gifts, maybe you should address your concerns to him.

The bible has a million and one evidence that jesus' followers never paid tithe nor received either.Please when next you disagree on this,then you are blaspheming deliberately. To clearly and sincerely know this is true,we need ask ourselves these questions.

Are you exaggerating, lying or saying the truth? Please list the million and one evidence that Jesus' followers never paid tithe. That is the assertion and extremism that i have being talking about yet again. It is unfounded and baseless, and has already been addressed if you cared to read. If i re-address it again now, you will glibly say something like they were jews. You didn't know or remember that they were jews before asserting(i guess i have said that word so much that it has become a cliche and the meaning is lost on you fellows, please check your dictionary and stop these childish assertions) that Jesus'followers NEVER tithed?

Now, i would answer all your questions being a first timer as it were in discussing with me. i will not be detailed as most of what you are asking have been asked and addressed previously and severally. i'm not here on any examination, neither am i your holy spirit. If you need teaching, ask Him. i'm here to discuss if you can.

1.Did the priest represent a christian and mediate in his behalf?

Yes, christians are priests and kings. The OT priest is a picture and a shadow of what we are. you should not run away from or deny or try to hide your shadow, that would border on insanity.

2.Was a levite priest holy enough to mediate and interceed for jesus?

What is the meaning and relevance of this? Anyway, Jesus was subject to levite priests while here on earth. He attended their feasts and programmes, offered the sacrifices needed and fulfilled their laws.

3.Did jesus and the Levite priest operate at the same time?

What do you mean by operate? Jesus was here on earth with levite priests operating. He still operates till tomorrow.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

4.Would it have been proper for jesus to tithe to a sinful levite priest for the remission of his sin??
5.Was tithe also meant for remission of sin for Israelites before the advent of jesus?

Tithing is not for remission of sins. Father, give me the patience.

6.Doesn't it require very serious praying and fasting by a christian to ask God sincerely to forgive him for saying that "HOLY" and "SINLESS" Jesus the christ paid tithe to a hypocritical Levite priest who was far lesser than John the baptist who even said that he is unfit to untie jesus's shoe lace?.

No, it doesn't. Holy and sinless Jesus was subject to His sinful and imperfect parents and to authority around Him. he respected government, He respected people, He gave tribute, He observed passover and other such things. He was born in a manger.

7.Do you realise it is a very big sin,if not the biggest for a christian to open his mouth to say that jesus tithed? Just because he want to defend this unholy extortion?.Perhaps you may tell us it was normal for jesus to have tithed for remission of sin and offered animal sacrifice for his sins too.

What? This is extrabiblical stuff, right? Where do you find this, who told you or how do you come to this conclusion? Some people actually liked this post? As in, they agree with what you are saying?

8.Do you know that judaism and christianity existed side by side and simultaenously?. If you don't,please check your bible as the record is there.Where was tithe being paid and received between these two religions?,and where was it not being paid and received?. Where was animal sacrifice taking place between these two religions and where was it not.?

Tithe was paid in the temple and the cities. Judaism and christianity were also practised in the temple and in the cities. Do you know that Paul the apostle had sacrifices offered for him as a christian?

9.If you falsely teach that christians paid tithe,then you admit that they were under the leadership of the levite priests.Is this what the bible tell us? No!.They were under the leadership of jesus christ firstly,and later the apostles.Naturally they would have paid their own tithes to jesus and later to the apostles.But the bible is clear and comprehensive about how early christians raised funds to support their ministry.

IF.
Early christians gave and were encouragged to give like their jewish counterparts.
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

They gave purposefully, bountifully, cheerfully, graciously and proportionally. That is how clear the Bible is.

10.Is it true that people who previously practiced judaism accepted christ as their personal lord and saviour and became born again? Yes.
11.Is it true that upon becoming born again they abandoned the practices of judaism which included tithing and animal sacrifice and embibed the christian tradition? Yes.

Lol.

12.If these former judaism practioners abandoned it and followed christ,at where did they continue to pay and receive tithes?

What is Judaism? Is worship of God a judaism practice? Is honouring one's parent a judaism practice? Are mercy, faith and justice judaism practices? Is not having another person's wife a judaism practice? Is tithing a judaism practice?

13.Have you read the story of Saul who later became Paul?
14.Is it true that he was an active force in judaism and killed christians with authorisation from the chief priests?
15.Is it true that he fulfilled most commandments of the law which included tithe paying?

Where is his story found so that i can be sure i read what you expect me to have read? Did Paul/Saul pay tithe? Oh, he was a farmer right? Pardon me, i didn't know.

16.Is it true that he was ordered to murder christians because he was qualified as loyal and bonafide member of that sect?
17.What happened after he encountered jesus on his way to Damascaus?
18.Did he go back to practice judaism and their laws?

What? Are these the expo for the coming CRK exams? i'm not offering the subject oh.

19.What lessons "MUST" a true and real christian/follower of christ learn from Paul,especially in matters related to Christian tithe paying?

You tell us the lessons we MUST learn. So, there are lessons about tithe from Paul, hmmm. Some antitithers are of the opinion that the New Testament doesn't even talk abot tithes or offer any such lessons, please help us enlighten them.

20.Why should a 21st century pastor boldly stand on a pulpit and claim to be representing the Levites priests who orchestrated and masterminded the murder of jeses christ?

i don't know why anyone would do that, what do you think?

21.Why must a pastor emulate the practices of a Levite priest which is "UNCHRISTIAN" in nature?

i have no idea. What practices are those?

22.Why are pastors not sincerely claiming that they are emulating the apostles,then search the scriptures very well to read and understand how the apostles raised funds for their ministry as christians and not as levite priests,and then follow suit exactly without quoting scriptures out of context in a foolish manner just to defend senselessly the extortion called tithe.

Sighs, i have issues and difficulties speaking for people that i hardly know. How can i say why who i don't know is doing what i don't know?

24.Christian means a person who is absolutely following the footsteps of jesus christ,and striving hard to be like him,stand for those things he stood for and against those things he hated.Otherwise you are a fake christian practicing something else.

Exactly bro. Jesus Christ NEVER condemned tithes in the scriptures. instead, He encouraged it and we ought to walk even as He walked, right? These things OUGHT TO BE DONE and not to leave the others undone, ring a bell?

it is therefore fool hardy and a great sin to begin to refer to Abraham,levite priests and the people before christ in matters of tithing.A good christian must speak from the angle of where he belong,which is christianity or christ follower must check the bible and see if his master jesus paid tithe or received tithe,if he never did any of this,then he is not entitled to neither as well.

You seem to have a degree or certificate in the study of sin? ALL these sins that you conjure up and even call great sins. Are you the christ we have been looking for? Where do you get these views?

[s]As for those fake pastor who invoke the Malachi curse to create fear in people,please repent before it is too late.Do not forget that Saul later became one of the greatest vessels of christ coming from judaism.He wrote a great chunk of the gospel.Even the priests tried by all means to kill him because he was no longer doing their will and worshiping with them.He was no longer paying their tithe too.So also were the other apostles.Could somebody under the curse of God be allowed by God to be an inspired writer? Paul and some of the apostles performed great miracles and even raised the dead back to lfe!!!. For Gods sake,could all these have been possible if they were cursed for not paying the levite priests tithes?. Please let us all control our glutony and try to understand who a true christian is.No need quoting the bible out of context,it is meaningless and senseless in all ramification. May we all read the book of Hebrew from beginning to end.Paul clearly stated that the law prepared the way for christ's coming and was valid until his arrival.in him the law was fulfilled.When jesus said he has not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it,he was simply telling the people that in him,the law has been fulfilled and that soon everything will take a new course as replacement for several practices that God abhored which prompted him to send christ.The day he was nailed to the cross marked the new beginning for "CHRISTIANS",and curse is everyone that is hangeth on the cross.Now we bear on our body the mark of christ and not the mark of the law.somewhere in hebrew Paul said anyone still practicing the traditions of the laws is not worshipping christ but has gone astray. He added that why he was active about the things concerning the law,he felt he was truly serving God but never knew he was not.He confessed that receiving christ has indeed opened his eyes to see the true religion and that he would never ever go back to his former practices.True to his pledge,he never did.Now let us ask ourselves a simple question here.If Paul renounced judaism that popularised him,could he have retained his tithe paying?.[/s]

Fake pastors, do pay attention. this information seems to be addressed to you guys. Oh, and some fellows called ourselves.

Please I want a sincere tither to answer this last question with the fear of God and christ if he has any.

Has any one wondered why christ told the pharisees that tithe is not a matter that has weight. If a matter does not have weight,how then does it bring about curse.Christ in his godly quality made that statement because he works in hand hand with God.meaning God authorised him to make such utterance.So why is a mere mortal wiser than jesus and God in this case?. Why do they still preach curse which God has already abolished through christ.Pls tithers and receivers,have a rethink,read and understand the bible because it is very clear and never confusing at all

Wonder no more brother, tithes is a little matter that has no weight compared to heavier weightier matters OF THE LAW like mercy and faith and judgement. tithes is a big matter in the heart of many antithers. They make ministries, callings and blogs to talk about tithe. They determine who is a true believer and who is not by tithes. They wate their lives fighting, antagonising and criticising a matter that has little weight. That is the wonder. well, Jesus said to expect many fake wonders and not be moved by them.

Each time jesus needed to feed the congregation,he relied on the few bread and fishes the congregants could provide from within,A tithe paying congregation/worshippers wouldn't have produced just five loaves of bread and a few fishes on such occassions.infact only a person that is already bedeviled will dare question why christians did not pay in jesus time and beyond.it is absolutely a question only a criminal with ulterior motive could ask because every reason about that is much more than clear and many. At one time the disciples almost revolted about Mary wasting a costly ointment on jesus and argued it should have been sold and the money given to the poor.Not that Mary should have tithed it so they could sell it and raise money for themselves as christians priests. Please have a change of heart,encourage freewill donations as christ and the apostles taught,stop preaching about curses for a non christian tradition because christ himself who we emulated disobeyed and called it unimportant!!! And even enpowered his apostles spiritually that they even raised the dead.Why don't these pastors teach about this and ask the congregants questions about things such as the effects of Malachi curse on christ and his followers

To whom it may concern.

trustman:
Are these what they said or you're just trying to be deceitful?
Can you copy and paste exactly where they said these?
Hope this is not another one of your diversionary tactics?

duh, i forgot to add your name and version. As you can see, you also have to ask questions as i've not made any unfounded assertions or false accusations.

This is likely my last reply to you for now. i've satisfied and given you the needed explanations. i'm not here to convince you, encourage you or force you to tithe. If you or anyone has genuine questions about tithes and tithing, i'd answer as much as God permits and as much as i'm available. Meaningless back and forths with stereotyping bigots and extremists remains a great waste of time and resource for me. i've given you the benefit of doubt in replying you as genuine, where you seek to engage in rudderless circles is where i leave you to yourself. No bi by force.

vooks:
Show me a single historical document or paper that shows Israel tithing on ANY non-agricultural stuff. You can't. I referred you to Josephus a first century Jewish historian. You can a,so dig into the Talmud. Scriptures,history and common sense stand against non-agricultural tithing

Josephus the first century Jewish historian;
http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/josephus/ant4.html

Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

That scripture is a valid history evidence that shows jews tithed of more than just agric produce. If that one would not be enough for you, i know that ten more would not suffice. If a professing christian would not believe the Bible, i do not have any other evidence to waste my time showing him. Abraham also gave tithes of more than agric produce but what does that matter to you. Again, i would yet waste one more scripture on you for posterity.
2Ch 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.
(CEV) The people from the other towns of Judah brought a tenth of their herds and flocks, as well as a tenth of anything they had dedicated to the LORD.


Jews offered tithes of holy things. holy things simply refer to dedicated, sanctified or devoted things. Holy things have a large variation as you may probably learn from Leviticus 27, they are not ONLY agricultural produce. There is NO Bible verse that says non agricultural tithes cannot be given or is unacceptable before the Lord. This ASSERTION remain a figment of the antitiher's imagination. It does not exist in reality.

It is only tithers who invoke Malachi curses. Scriptures are inspired and that's why your church no longer bans women menstruating simply because it is written

i will say it again. Our posts are available for perusal. i do not know how many of them including me, that you can point to or show that they proclaim curses on antitithers. You don't know me or know my church as to make any assertive statements on what we do or do not do. Learn to drop your bigotry and extremism when interacting with others.

Jesus had reverence for Moses and censured the Pharisees for voiding it with their traditions. That is not a call to Christians to keep Moses as you pretend. That's why Jesus calling Pharisees to keep on tithing is as valid as Jesus commanding a leper to keep Moses

What you have written here is as meaningless as it gets. lemme look at it to pick some sense out of it yet again so that i can at least reply it. It's either you are diverting issues way off course or you are just not making sense. What is the relevance of these group of sentences? What do i pretend(whatever that means)?
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Because you are hard of hearing I will repeat. There is no record of Jesus tithing. His occupation" carpentry did not fall under agriculture so he was ineligible to tithe. When a Pharisee says he tithes ALL, and we are told tithing is from agriculture, we don't need discernment to understand that ALL means what is tithe-able. Did he tithe his kids? What about wives if he had many? Let's try and avoid suspending thinking when it comes to scriptures. Logic is most certainly not incompatible with Chriatianity.

You could hardly refute what i said, or discuss intelligently. you cannot resist the wisdom of what i have written to you by God's grace. Repeating your ignorance like a religious person repeats his prayers is a total waste of time and life. NO SCRIPTURE says anyone is ineligible to tithe. When Jesus told the rich young ruler to go and sell his possessions among other things, i'm sure the devil did not deceive you enough to think extremely and foolishly that those possessions were his kids or wives. The same Jesus and the same Bible talks of what the jewish pharisee possesses and all the devil could pump into you was an extremist view devoid of common sense. That is not logic. We do need discernment, and we are not told that tithing is only from agriculture. The scriptures records and accepts tithes of both agricultural and non agricultural produce. You folks are so full of hypocrisy and reminiscent of your mentors.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

You would not tithe, and you would spend so much time telling others what and how to tithe in the most ridiculous of ways. You have your reward like your fathers.

vooks:
You do realize that Paul commended Jews ZEAL for God but prayed for them for the same was not according to KNOWLEDGE?
They had the Law, prophets,revelation, Messiah in the flesh but......
I'd rather an atheist any time than a professional theological acrobat who will quote anything to prop weak traditions of men

You referred to a bible verse as sounding absurd. That is as low as it gets, but what do you care. you think we are just having a debate and that appears to you a good defense. i don't get your message about your love or lack of it for atheists and acrobats, can you please stay on relevant discussion?

thehomer:
It is folly because your God is a figment of your imagination. Though shared by a couple of other people. Have you ever prayed earnestly to your God? Well since I'm the one living my life, I think I'm the one in the best position to say whether or not my life is meaningless or purposeless. And I can tell you that right now, I'm not feeling frustrated or unfulfilled. Who are you referring to as my mentor?

Prayer is not grovelling, have you ever prayed? Do you know what it means to pray? i'm the one living my life and my God is real. What is the purpose of your life? What is the meaning of your life? Do you have any mentor(s)? Do you know how they died, i know.

It appears that conditional statements are difficult for you but hey, that's your problem. If you think your God is love, he is blind. If you think your God is loving, he isn't. Apparently as a Christian, you're the one who is afraid of this loving God of yours.

Confused statements are not conditional statements. You made a confused statement. Which do you believe, think or accept? Is God love or not?

Pro 10:22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.


The demisquare version says "The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich in previous dispensations, and he addeth sorrows with it to make us selfless."


The voks version says "The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich before before, and he addeth no sorrow with it."

The spirikoko windowsx version says "The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich only spiritually, and he addeth no sorrow with it if He doth sovereignly chooses."

The Gnoni version says "The blessing of the LORD i dey looku looku, it maketh rich, and he addeth www.iamsofullofmyself.g no sorrow with it."

Kay17:
https://www.nairaland.com/1153593/necessity-jesus-sacrifice

This thread should suffice for that discusson

What you said sums up what Jesus did for us when He came to earth, the love of God.

vooks:
You may want to start by circumcising your ..... because it is your own and it won't be evil in our eyes

That's how absurd you sound

You do realize that is not just my word but God's? It really is more than a debate, don't take it as one.

Kay17:
I was going to talk about the action of love. Within our subconscious, we create a list of priorities with the most valued at the apex and to which we lavish our deepest love. As an action we equate the most valuable with the highest price: our very life.

Sums up what Jesus did for us.

Happy Birthday. Thanks be to God who spared you from satan deceiving you to contest for political position this time. How's Okotie BTW?

vooks:
Your opinion on tithing on NL is least from practice. Tithing is a doctrine not propagated but on NL but churches. So here you are free to whitewash your doctrine to make it acceptable. If you have never heard of Malachi curses threatened on tithers except on NL you may as well be living on Mars
Is Malachi invoked in YOUR church? Do they mention the curses as well? Do you believe the curse of non-tithing recorded there are applicable to those who don't tithe? Answer these as faithfully

Don't be unreasonable. i have been on NL for many years talking about and explaining the tithe. So also have some of the people i mentioned earlier. Our posts are available for perusal. i do not know how many of them including me, that you can point to or show that they proclaim curses on antitithers. They say charity begins at home. This is a medium for discussion, and i usually say that all doctrines, passages and bible teachings have their abuses and misuses. It's unreasonable to be reactive rather than proactive. You should behave and respond chiefly based on what the Bible says, or at least what the principal/primary/fellow discussants are saying or doing. Instead, you and most of the others would rather react on some fellow or story somewhere that is not directly reachable. And you would most times commit the fallacy of stereotyping all tithers under the same alleged practice/teaching/belief. i'm interested in what the Bible says, not in what your pastor or neighbour's pastor says.
Malachi is scriptures and anybody is free to read them anywhere. ALL Scriptures remain inspired by God and profitable. No human has a right to cut off any part of scriptures or discourage others from reading or using it. At least, thank God that one is in the new testament Bible.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Any baby christian should understand that we are in the period of the 'new' covenant. One major character of that covenant is GRACE that came through Jesus according to John. That grace is so exceeding that it delivers man from judgement, at least judgement is not as instant as it was in the OT. While in the OT, a murderer or rebellious child was killed, in the NT there is GRACE and that person can be forgiven and repent. We don't say oh we are in the NT and Killing and rebellion are now okay. While the judgement is restrained as it were, the commandment or precept is still valid. It is same thing or thereabout with the tithe.
Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Peter as a Jew offered his tithe to Levites. There are many things not recorded about Jesus. We build faith and doctrines on what is recorded. You need to study Jewish history to understand that Jews NEVER tithed nothing not agricultural. So history and scriptures are against income tithes. [s]History is stubborn. God can't change history; it is cast not in stone but steel.[/s] For once what historical records do you have showing you Jews tithed outside agriculture? Start with Josephus. This is not conjecture but hard facts.

The point here is, do not EVER assert again that Jesus or His disciples NEVER tithed. That is one of the lies antitithers peddle around to trip the unwary. Jewish history says NOTHING about non agricultural tithes being invalid. Jesus Himself referred to a pharisee that tithed of ALL that he possessed. It wasn't rocket science or conjectures, it was history.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Pharisees and scribes may have been schooled but Jesus wondered at their meticulous tithing of spices! Spices are as agricultural. The parables of rich people who hired stewards or labourers. They certainly never farmed but they were farmers. Is this too hard to digest? About Jesus tithing, this is speculative based on what we know. Jesus father was a carpenter and most certainly Jesus too. The point is, if all Jesus did was carpentry, he was not obligated to tithe. Either side of the argument who push it beyond this are insincere. Got it?

You are pushing towards unreasonable. Antithers usually insist that only farmers tithe and that Jesus wasn't one. The Bible shows that scribes tithed, rulers tithed, pharisees tithed. What is so remote as to assert that Jesus NEVER tithed. Perhaps Sadducees never tithed too, since it is not specifically mentioned? [size=13pt]There is no viable document or fact that says that Jews tithed agricultural produce from Israel alone. Or that some people are not eligible to tithe. It is not written anywhere in the Bible but a product of the antitither's imagination.[/size]

Jesus told the man to offer a gift. The gift was what Moses prescribed and the point is not to imagine the purpose of the gift but that Jesus referred a man back to Torah. That does not apply to Christians NOW yet Jesus commanded the man. So this is an incidence of Jesus a man under the Law demonstrating reverence for the Law yet Christisns would NEVER offer animal sacrifices prescribed. Same case with the tithing verse, your only hope. Very desperate people.
Note these were not 'laws of the land' but Law of Moses. Read Leviticus 14:2-32 to understand that this was a Command from Yahweh Himself

We are not imagining the purpose of the gift, it is written in the scriptures. Go and read them. The leper had to go to the priest for CLEANSING and to be INTEGRATED back into society. Jesus had OBVIOUSLY cleansed the leper in question. All he had to go do with the priest was for integration into the community. He was to offer for a testimony unto them, not to be cleansed. If you lived in Israel as a leper, Jesus would tell you the same thing. Christians should be subject to authority. Jesus paid tribute and the apostles wrote to believers to submit to authority. Paul was a christian and he offered sacrifices when he went to the temple. Peter and John regarded the temple's hour of prayer. They were not renegades or seditious. You have a lot of ignorance that i tolerate so stop all this assertiveness about NEVERs, you know not that much as to say NEVER.

thehomer:
It is absolute folly to believe in your God. Actually you only have your life except the portions of it that you've wasted groveling before your God. My life isn't meaningless given the fact that I enjoy living it.

Kindly explain how it is folly to believe in God. i've never had to grovel before God BTW, you seem to have a poor imagination. Your life is meaningless and purposeless, and you would end up frustrated and unfulfilled if you live long and continue this way. That is the trend your mentors took, i'm sure you know.

When you say God is love, I'm telling you that he is also blind. When you claim that he is actually loving, I point out to you that he is hateful. I don't know why you find these simply ideas confusing. You can always pray to your God for enlightenment.
Maybe the devil has already won your brain since you're here defending a God that has commanded genocide.
Another year beacons. Come out of folly. Don't waste your life bowing to evil entities especially when they're imaginary.

Don't be ridiculous yet again. You said in the same breath that Actually, my point is that your God is not love. Then, Sure God is love. Your confusion remains pitiable and you do not know it. It's either God is love or God is not love, which one can you cope with? You believe God does not exist, but you have daymares and seizures talking about Him. Come out of folly, Jesus loves you yet.

An2elect2:
No Image, Nora is right! The guy was by no means a christian.
He was more of a motivational speaker,not a Christian.
The world needs salvation in Christ and not some persons telling us how to do this and do that.

If this was right i should have said rip but its not.
The thing here is that there is no peace for the wicked.
#Sad and pitiful but true#

No one has the right to be so brash to a fellow human no matter how opposite your views are. That is not what God sent anyone to do.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

The good news is to every creature.

nora544:
“As for the man himself- like any enemy of the faith that breathes their last, we ought to be both saddened and heartened by this news. Saddened because a man and his family are dead and there will be hundreds, if not thousands grieving. Presumably not all the dead were as Myles was- they were not all enemies of the Gospel, and consequently it is a hard, aching tragedy that ought to cause believers everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer and supplication that the Holy Spirit might be a balm to the mourner’s souls. It’s a surreal, painful time when anyone passes away, especially in such brute circumstances, and we ought to empathize with those in mourning. The Lord takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and neither should we. We can only pray that all parties repented of their sins before they perished and will join us in paradise. I want nothing more than for this to be the case.

Heartened? Because relating specifically to Myles Munroe, a man who was peddling theological and spiritual poison is no longer a direct threat to the Christian Church.” He cannot preach any more of his heresy. He cannot bind Christ to the Almighty dollar bill and tie the gospel narrative to the riches and filthy lucre that he promised you had coming to you if only you became a Christian and gave him your seed offering. His reach has withered already, and will continue to diminish as time passes. It’s all fading to black.

By all accounts, ironically, the plane he perished in was his own private Lear plane, the fruits of his fleecings and an instrument of destruction in the hands of the Almighty God- the Judge of all the earth who will do right.

I'm sure someone wrote this for you, Nora. This is mean, untimely and uncalled for. Find something else to do with your life. Even Jesus wasn't this brash to His enemies, you lack such right.

Woah, rest in peace.

johnydon22:
hahahahahahahahahahahaha dodging typical please we are done

God help you.

vooks:
Google don't waste brains reading negro tea leaves

What language is this one?

nora544:
Lake has never healed and he was a big liar he wrote about the plaque in south africa but at the time he was in south africa there was no plaque Lake is a liar and a fraudster like all this Gods gernals from the fake Robert Liardon all he want was to make money from the books and not more.

But you lied to me about who started healing school, who should i believe now?