₦airaland Forum

WinsomeX:
How does Forbes magazine, for example, get their informations from to list out world richest people?

This is how they get stupendously rich.

They teach blessings as a god. To partake in this blessings, they encourage tithing, firstfruit, prophet offerings, etc, from people. At the close of the day, the minister and his church are rich. Then they invest these riches in real estate, transportation, schools, and all kinds of business ventures. The capital being people's money. The profit theirs.

That's the making of the Pastorpreneur.

Oh, was it Forbes sir? Do find out how Forbes gets their information.
i can only shake my head at your conjectures. Na so e easy to make $150million. So you have any shred of evidence about any of these so called 5 rich pastor's preneurship? Or you hear it at the football viewing centre?

WinsomeX:
Your trademark. Leaving issues to pursue irrelevance. I said a lot more than expressway there yiu know butYes, if not the expressway, try the well.

This is preposterous You want me to leave the comforts of a bore-hole water and jump into a well? Vooks, vooooooooooooooooooooooooooooks.
Winx, you were trying to explain why you failed to do what you said you would do. Your conclusion is simply after the COZA order, if you don't get that, well, you don't get that.

Read it again. It's written in English and does not require a lot to comprehend.

i mean what is all that in the context of what i'm telling you? You left my issues with you to pursue irrelevance at neck breaking speed.

Schooled. So much for schooling. Thank you for the "schooling" it was not helpful.

Let me do revision for you, like bfore exams. i made that post 11:33pm October 23. You posted on this same thread 1:06am On Oct 24 and till date. You and most of your fellows avoided replying that post like a plague, and stopped your previous baseless assertions about the passage. You should thank God for sending me your way.

Remove the log in your eyes and then you will realize it's just a speckkkk.

The question was "Have you seen the speckkkk?"

Let me help you with a link, it will help.

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24701718

i don't need such useless helps.

This I agree with you. I shall open the thread by tge grace of God... coming soon.

COZA COZA VIA DOLAROSA

WinsomeX:
^^^

In other words we should have more millionaire pastors and more poor members.

What's your take on the fact that five of the richest pastors in the world are Nigerians. With the richest being David Oydepo. If not from people's giving and tithes how else did he make his money?

In other words, a pastor should not be unduly criticized based alone on his possessions. There is no fact anywhere that five of the richest pastors in the world are Nigerians. It is not even logically sustainable. Where do the supposedly poor members who are living under the poverty line get the alleged donations that made the nigerian pastors the richest in the world?What bank are the pastors using, who went to check their account balance? Do we just conjure up figures to criticize people?

WinsomeX:
Image123,

Ok. Let's do it.

Let me start with the thread I promised to open to discuss with BabaGnoni (B). I had said I would open a thread which none of you could open to discuss Eve/Serpent/Sex with him. It occured to me later that to enter such a discussion I should ask nicely first, like we mostly do here on this forum. B has seen the request and will respond when he is ready. I will wait till then. Until then, it is fine if you continue to discuss the matter in a rabid manner, using it as a means to evade cogent discussions especially when you have run out of thoughts to defend your positions. The discussion will start when he is ready... anyone that doesn’t like it that way should open their own thread or head for the expressway.

This is a happening after the order of COZA. Nice man asking nicely, then going ahead to wish people expressway death , vooks, take note of this man.

By the way, your friends have not told us where the bible tells us to command angels.

You also still have one of your friends here whose motto in life is to be anywhere where the money is. It reminds me of 50 cents' "Get money or die trying..." philosophy.

What about the one who terms himself a mediator here but is as bias as bias can be, who cannot explain to us why his idol, Hagin, was laughing hysterically in a video like one on his way to Yaba left.

Shall we forget the early days of WoF revelations when the kiddo in your midst affirmed with E W Kenyon that there is no redemption in the cross.

Or is it the confusion of Paul rebuking Peter before "them all", which meant a private rebuke before leaders only. You know, the way Christian Oyakhilome rebuked his wife in a stormy London meeting. A rebuke that opened him to a divorce proceeding. A private rebuke before leaders indeed.

And Bidam, ah, lest I forget: Jesus was a Pharisee!

What is all these?

You, my friend Image123, have very well avoided controversies only that you think that Paul who "withstood" Peter should not be called a rebuke. To withstand is less embarrassing than to rebuke.

Eeyah, you are looking for my mistake. Look for Jesus, or the Kingdom of God, or something better. i schooled you on that passage, instead of you to say thank you, this is the coins you want to you to pay me. Sorry, i don't take coins, i'm not cheap.

If you search my own threads well, you may find my own minor gaffes too because that's the way all the above should be seen. But hypocrites will keep the log in their eyes and be groping in the dark to removd a speck in B eyes.

The SPECK? Have you seen the speckkkk?

What I have written is not a justification for teaching damnable heresies, like Jesus died spiritually (JDS). That's the purpose of the very commendable WoF thread. There is a place for that.

i've never heard that doctrine all my life, and i do not intend to even. Gnoni preached something similar too.

Stay tuned for the discussiin with B... coming soon!

For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

vooks:
Valid questions
If Jesus followers paid tithes, it MUST have been to the Levites as these were the only people mandated to collect it. And the tithers MUST have been Jews in keeping with elements of Moses among others Sabbath, visiting the temple,Feasts and so forth.

What is clear is at not point in early church history did Christians pay tithes to anybody either to support ministry or for charity. There is ample evidence of both their supporting ministry and charity so this is no argument from silence by any mean. This makes tithing a late tradition and as such questionable if for nothing else

I recommend this link for a brief history of tithing;
http://slaveoftheword..com/2013/05/tithing-and-church-history-response-to.html
Before you crucify me for stepping outside scriptures please understand my point; tithing practice was adopted hundreds of years after Pentecost which supports the Biblical silence over the same.

Does it bother you that such a practice with all the supposed immense benefits was never revealed to the apostles and the early church? They had the OT and Jesus injunction to the Pharisees not to mention Hebrews and Melchizedek yet the apostles and the Church Fathers stuck to Pauline formula of free will. Do you believe Holy Spirit deemed it not fit to reveal this to them?

Anybody can decide what he wants to do with his income. That Jerome or Luke does not write about it doesn't mean it DID NOT happen. It was said that someone usually gave 90% of his money to church, well that was said. What about others that were not said? What is so impossible about someone giving a tenth to levites and another tenth to the church. Didn't people give much more, even in the early church? If people are giving sacrificially, and selling their possessions, and giving graciously and in abundance of their joy and their deep poverty. Why then go to kindergaten to teach the persons about giving 10%? Why would i enter a JAMB class or WAEC class and insist on teaching them the times-table? Is it not taken for granted that they know much more than the 2 times-table? What practice was never revealed to the apostles and the early church? Do you have a copy of all their sermon outlines with you? Do you hear of John or Thomas teaching about the Holy Communion? Does it mean they(in particular) never taught it? Is it not implied in Jesus words to Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. Wasn't Jesus clearly speaking to the multitudes and HIS disciples in Matthew 23v1? Would the multitudes and disciples be scot-free if they behaved like the pharisees(if Jesus wasn't talking to them)? Wasn't Jesus talking to a pharisee when He said to be born again, or to render to God the things that are God's?

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

This is good news. Good news for everybody. In due time, CHRIST died FOR the ungodly. Jesus Christ died when we were yet without strength. We couldn't manage it, we had no strength for it, we were all going to die. But Jesus Christ came, and died for us. We were ungodly, helplessly ungodly, without strength ungodly. But Christ died for US. He died for our ungodliness, so that we do not have to die again for our ungodliness. The wages of ungodliness is death, but Jesus came to pay it. This is good news for all of us. This, the world ought to know, Christ died for the ungodly. And all you need to do is accept it. Oh, my wages have being paid by Jesus, i take that, i believe that, i accept that, i confess that.

WinsomeX:
MILLIONAIRE PASTORS... POOR MEMBERS

by Victor Oyeleke

There is no doubt that church business is very lucrative.

If church business is so lucrative, what are 48million jobless nigerian youths waiting for?

The overwhelming number of churches in Nigeria is a testament of how profitable owning a church is and if that is not enough evidence, then perhaps the recently published list of the top 10 richest pastors in the world where the top earner, Pastor David Oyedepo, is estimated to have a networth of $150m should suffice.

It doesn't suffice. How did the published list arrive at its figures? Did they have access into anybody's account and asset details? How do poor members allegedly donate $150million. Have you everlived with poor people? They can't donate to buy a power transformer for their street/community even if it would save their lives. They don't have such money, that is why they are POOR. You can't eat your cake and have it as it were. It is either they are poor or they are not.

While the notion of soul-saving preachers with humble earnings and possessions is currently quite surreal and almost fictional, it was the norm until the healing revivals of the 1950s. When a group of pentecostal evangelists such as William Branham, Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts and A. A. Allen embraced an understanding of faith as an activator that unleashed spiritual power. At the same time, they understood the Bible as a source of God’s laws and covenants that gave believers specific rights and privileges.

Actually, there are still many preachers with humble earnings and possessions. the majority are even poor. You cannot count the about 10 or so(in Nigeria) jet owning and supposedly well to do as majority. How can you call the many poor looking churches in many streets across the nation as fictional?

Over the years, this teaching was revamped and made more sophisticated. Preachers shifted from the “God of fire and brimstone” to a more appealing one of “grace and prosperity”. It gained worldwide prominence and prominent preachers like Chris Oyakhilome, David Oyedepo, Chris Okotie and Matthew Ashimolowo are keeping the movement strong in Nigeria.

This brand of Christianity advocates behaving like children of the kingdom by dressing like queens and kings, thinking positively, and believing it is your right as a child of the kingdom to be rich and you should partner with God by faith to pursue riches.

i don't know about pursuing riches. But God's children are children of the King and should behave so. They are strangers and pilgrims and should not behave like earthling beggars waiting for the UN or WHO to come to their aid. A child of God should think positively, not negatively A child of God had rights and privileges in the kingdom. A child of God should pursue God and righteousness. i however do not apologize for being wealthy.

The heart of the principle of this teaching seems to be exclusively reliant on you using something to get something.

Of course you have to use something to get something, albeit legally. There is no free lunch, this is not a APC or PDP manifesto.

Though you could give God your time and other non-material things, money seems to be the most acceptable form of payment to unlock the blessings of heaven. It almost has the undertone of taking from the devil.

Well, that is wrong if anybody teaches that.

These preachers sell the gospel as the pathway to riches. Feeding the desire of their followers to be rich even though it is contrary to what Paul said in 1 Timothy 6:6-10.

The gospel certainly should bring the provisions and care of God to meet your needs.

To support their theory, they use themselves as examples testifying of the turnover they made from sowing seeds. Dr. Mike Murdock is well known for this tactic.

Motivated by stories of financial gain, out of the little they have, members pay their tithes and then go through the rigmarole of seed sowing. They sow the seed, water it, weed it and even fence it. The seed then become more important than seeking the kingdom of God. Matthew 6:33- “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”

People shouldn't be focused on material wealth, nonetheless we should not turn a blind hypocritical eye to it.
Luk 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

While giving is not wrong per se, a majority of these prosperity preachers are living a luxurious life off their poor members who are in dire need of help.

Owning a multimillion-dollar private jet just to “oversee churches” to quote Pastor Adeboye while some members are living in poverty is acceptable by these preachers.

Personal opinions are allowed. Forcing it as a doctrine on others is where we may have issues.

Being accustomed to life of luxury, some preachers with branches in the west gets carried away and spends church funds at will, which eventually lands them in murky situations.

While Christ Embassy is currently under investigation for alleged mismanagement of funds, the British government ordered Pastor Matthew Ashimolowo to pay back £200,000 in 2006 after it emerged that he used church assets to buy a £13,000 Florida time share and spent £120,000 on his birthday celebrations, including £80,000 which was spent on a car.

Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor is currently embroilled in the controversy of how his private jet was used to ferry $9.3 million seized by the South African government. He is a friend of government as well as National President of Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN).

Though members should be responsible for the needs of their pastors, making giving money a prerequisite for receiving from God is punitive.

While there may be unfortunate examples set by men, it should be noted that men are not the standard but the Word of God. You can't accuse men's examples like Murdock's, and then turn to use men's examples yourself.

It is a safe bet that a congregation with less than 500 members would surely have testimonies of people reaping from sowing but not everyone would experience such gain. However, those who did not reap from sowing are not given a refund rather they are encouraged to sow more and believe more. The onus is placed on them and not the preacher who spoke confidently about the powers of sowing and they are thrust into a perpetual circle of giving and
believing while the preachers travel the world in private jets, drive in fully air conditioned cars, send their children to the best schools and have the best of everything.

How many pastors with less than 500 members travel about in private jets? There is nothing wrong with a pastor being rich, except there is something wrong with a child og God being rich. The office and calling of a a pastor is not a call to penury or poverty or ascetism. Find your way to the monastery if that's where your example lies.

The height of the irony is that; members cannot afford to send their children to the schools they helped establish and majority of these preachers benefited from free missionary schools.

Rubbish. There are many church members whose children are in good schools and even travel abroad. Everybody is not the same, nor can everybody go to the same school. Talking about free missionary schools, missionary schools were sponsored by people abroad. Yes, peoplesacrificed and vowed and volunteered and gave their live savings and callings and professions. That is not free, somebody paid for it. Travel expenses, salaries, clothing, feeding, gifts etc, people paid and still pay till date for these things. There are people benefitting from scholarships and generous donations and grants in good schools today.

Charity, which is a foundation of Christianity seems to have absconded. Even those claiming to be involved in charity are just using it as a façade. The church is now a market hub, everything is for sale. It is all about the cha-ching! cha-ching!! And if you do not have loads of it, then you are relegated to the bottom of the food chain.

I wonder what Jesus Christ would do if he walks into a church today.

Culled from www.tribune.com.ng/sunday-zest/item/18342-millionaire-pastors-poor-members/18342-millionaire-pastors-p

Articles listing world richest pastors, 5 of the top 10 are Nigerians:
www.richestlifestyle.com/top-10-richest-pastors-in-the-world/

Charity has not being absconded or whatever. Yes, we all need to do more, but it will be ignorance and a lack of exposure to say or imply that nothing is being done. We are expecting Jesus too. Are you?

Alexis86:
I thought Christ died to redeem the world? how is the world then irredeemable?

He died to redeem the world i.e humans, not the world i.e earth.

paxonel:
i have no reason to doubt you,

---

Christ will come one day and very soon, to blow a trumpet from the cloud and gather believers to heaven.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

After this, there would be great tribulation and the antichrist's reign on earth for some time.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

After this, Jesus will come with the believers and reign on this earth for about 1000years, during which there will be peace and prosperity, and multiplying and replenishing and etcs.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Then satan would again deceive some people and, there after God will destroy this world. And God would put all the righteous humans in the new/other world/earth and they will live happily ever after.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

striktlymi:
Now to the crux of the matter...

The question: How do you pay your tithe without offending God?

The simple answer to that question is to draw up a monthly personal budget that is skewed towards achieving that purpose. Drawing up a feasible personal budget entails a lot more than what meets the eyes. It is very useful for planning our short and long term income and expenditure but sadly very few people plan how they make and spend money.

A personal budget will help one avoid situations where you spend money but have no clue where the money went, hence passing the blame to one poor innocent old woman in the village. As it regards the topic, it helps the individual spend wisely on his or her family, have enough to pay tithe with less worries and also enough savings in the account.

Ideally, our monthly savings should not be less than 50% of our monthly net income. If yours is less than 30% then you should take drastic measures. One way of doing this is adopting a plan based spending culture, such that you spend in line with your income stream or less. A personal budget will help you achieve this.

Continued in the next post

Good, now you're talking.

hat

striktlymi:
Research has shown that a good number of Nigerians live below the poverty line and can hardly afford to feed themselves, let alone their families but despite this, the harsh reality is that some of these people still pay tithes.

If you fall within this category of people, you are very blessed if you pay the tithe without a grudge just like the poor widows of the Old and New testaments but please note: You are not expected to pay tithe. Use your money for yourselves and family. You can give what you can to your church every other day i.e if you can.

Please, if you are in the above category, just like it is with those who are well to do, this thread is not for you. Do not pay tithe when you cannot afford to.

This thread is strictly for those who earn a monthly take home (whether in paid employment or personal business) that should be enough to take care of themselves and their families, ceteris paribus.

Continued in the next post

The Bible NEVER discourages poor people giving. Instead, it discourages sinful people/sinners, and those that have an issue to settle. In fact, Jesus Christ commended the giving of a poor widow.
Luk 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
Luk 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
Luk 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

The commands on giving in the Old Testament hardly spare anybody. Instead, it considerably reduces the rates, that is all. It doesn't say not to give except you find it convenient.

trustman:
Maybe you should ask your friend Bidam about 'The spirit of Python'. He's well versed in it.

What part of "i don't care to know" do you not understand? Why are you still asking me to ask someone else about it?
Oh i see, you are trying to subtly do a parallel Gnoni stuff by blackmailing Bidam with this thread? i do not expect him to deny the thread or what he tried to teach there. We still await Gnoni's and perhaps your dumbness loosed in Jesus'name.

striktlymi:
I am one who care little about paying tithes but despite this I do not chastise those who freely choose to contribute to the growth of their church and well being of their pastors by way of tithes.

I will not bore you with many quotes from Sacred scriptures about tithes or whether tithe giving is necessary or not for today's Christians. I will rather stick to the realities on the ground.

Number one reality is that we have people who, with a good knowledge of Sacred Scriptures, still choose to pay tithes. Another reality is that a section of the aforementioned people are low income earners who, despite their best efforts, pay tithes to the detriment of their loved ones.

This piece is not for those who can afford to pay 10% of their take home pay and still have more than enough to take care of their families and meet their other financial obligations.

Before I continue I would like to put to rest the minds of some of our 'Bible believing Christians' who may feel guilty about not giving 10% of their take home pay as tithe.

The relevant passage from Sacred Scriptures to meditate on is:

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV)

8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

From the above, we should be able to decipher that God would be very displeased with someone who has the resources to take care of his family but neglects to do so just because the individual refuses to set his priorities right.

That includes diverting the much needed funds to the payment of tithes at the expense of your loved ones. If you must tithe then it is a must that you do it the right way. A way that should not put your family in jeopardy.

Continued in the next post

You can't tithe to the detriment of your loved ones. A human being has to have financial discipline. Any poor man who has no financial discipline will continue to remain poor and in debts. It is financial health to be able to put aside(on a regular basis) a part of your income or profit or proceeds for saving at least, before spending on family, self and whatever else. If setting apart 10% of your income or profits is to your detriment, please find some financial discipline, or a better job. What happened to the 90%. Anyone who cannot cope with 90% would not cope even with 150%. FACT.

The Good News is rich and broad. The good news is not just one line, though it may be captured in many catchy one lines. The good news is about Jesus Christ, the good news is the gospel.
This thread aims to share what the good news is and what it encompasses. The good news is the light. It is what all men should know and have. Indeed in the words of the proverbs, Pro 25:25 As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country. Jesus Christ came all the way from Heaven to Earth to give us the good news. Bad news was the fall of man and the death that it brought in the forms of pain, sin, defeat, sorrow and suffering. Jesus came with the good news, and every man deserves to know the good news. Jesus came to save. His name means Saviour.

paxonel:
where in the Bible?

Aargh, Genesis to Revelation. Haba.
What do you want to know if it is in the Bible? If i show you, would you then accept it and believe it, or am i about to waste my time?

feedthenation:
Care to explain how did Jesus Christ received or paid tithe since he's not from the tribe of Levi and subsequently he's not a farmer or a landowner?

Jesus received tithe as God. Will a man rob God? Care to explain what stops Jesus from tithing if a scribe could tithe?

MarkMiwerds:
Moses said the tithe was to go to the Levites, widows, orphans and stangers in Israel. Moses also said God's holy tithe was agricultural and to be eaten. Are you hearing him? If not, you apparently will not hear the One who rose from the dead.

Your argument using 1 Corinthians would be valid if it weren't for Acts 13.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

The message to the Church at Corinth is applicable to all Gentiles, as is Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, etc..

Nice try.

Moses also said Genesis 14 remember?
Oh so, we can go to Acts 13 to defend 2Corinthians? Good of you.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Psa 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

All for Malachi

paxonel:
exactly!
this is the complete idea. but i have not seen any biblical stand that portray this story which looks like tales from Jewish mythology.
the question i am asking is, why will God want to put righteous people in a new world and destroy this world? is it not this same world he asked man to replenish in the beginning?
even we humans, we don't do anything without reason, we don't go about building houses only to later destroy our houses without any reason.
Adam commiting sin is never a good reason why God will want to destroy the world

Everything i just told you is in the Bible.
God wants to destroy this world because He has found it irredemable and He wants to make something better. That is His reason.

vooks:
Here is your leader goD mbaemeka wishing me death

https://www.nairaland.com/1892195/truth-behind-christ-embassy-healing/33#27030827

To be fair, i read that link and i do not think mbaemeka wished you death. You've being busy trying to push him to the wall to the best of my knowledge. You always come up with snidely addressing him as god, having to ask him permission to die etc. i'm aware his church teaches that christians are gods according to Psalm 82 and John 10:34, and also the greater is He that is in me quote. But for you to at every opportunity try to logically force it and make unnecessary remarks. He simply left you to yourself. Like if you don't believe you can conquer death or escape death, then do the other side and stop bugging me. Anyway, na two of you get matter but that's what i saw their, no wishes.

trustman:
I'm beginning to think that you guys may be possessed by the "Spirit of Python".
Your actions are gradually exposing your inside.
My assessment of you guys is being confirmed.
We'll soon know who's what.

Baseless and useless assessments, i must say. What is the spirit of python? Don't bother, i don't care to know. What is with you guys and your extrabiblical practices and teaching? Yet if another does same, you would be in frontline condemning.

Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Bidam:
Even as he talks rubbish on nairaland, the fool lacks sense and shows EVERYONE how stupid he is.

Brother, easy on the insults. Don't let them get to you or take something more precious from you than their cheap and often baseless criticisms.

vooks:
You just redefined busy. Too busy fending for your family yet you literally hang around NL lurking in the shadows. BUSY is an overused cliche by poor to low esteem suckaz trying to appear significant but I forgive you.

Trustman is a closet gay, transvestite and satanist. He sacrificed his twins last week on Friday.Take that to the nearest Den of thieves
Hope you can sleep and drop hallucinating now

i can relate with 'busy'. It is commonsense. One may easily read or even post/reply one or two lines or even more on a mobile device or at work or during traffic/transport. It is a little different front sitting at a computer, ready to open a thread or discuss at length as you would want to, with the colors, quotes, scripture search, links etc. It can apply to anyone.

WinsomeX:
]Bidam will have me apologize for calling his accusations his "inventions". Bidam, I apologize for calling it your invention. However since we do not have the quote where BBG made the alleged statement, I say this that though the accusation cannot be called an invention exactly, it is remains unverifiable and an allegation BC there is no quote on nl like that with BBG name on it.

If you called Bidam's allegations as his inventions, then you were wrong. They were not his but Gnoni's. It's okay for you to be sorry for being wrong. It is verifiable by witnesses and by Gnoni himself. You can ask Gnoni, yes you can.

Now, let me let us into this. I listened to a minister teach about Noah and that son of his that saw his unclothedness. The minister proved from that scripture that his son actually abused him sexually. Now some may believe this or they may choose not to; whichever way it is a theological point that has no relevance to the Christian life. That's the way I see the Eve had sex with serpent doctrine.

We don't need the way you see it. We need the thread you said you would open by 9am today. See your weak attempts to defend your boy. You would have done better with silence like your cohorts. Of course i'm not referring to tman BTW.

DrummaBoy, trustman and BabaGnoni, on the other hand, have so far on the WoF thread, discussed 16 damnable heresies in both doctrine and practices of the Word of Faith. Assuming for a second that BBG actually believes this doctrine of Eve had sex with a Serpent, that will make the scores 16 to 1, heading to 20 to 1. Even the 1 is unfounded, unverifiable, unrelated to the Christian stand in life or death and it's hopelessly baseless.

i checked your touted list. Guaranteed health, prosperity, tithing, seed faith for instance are in no way damnable heresies. What is with you and damnable heresies BTW? Who decides what is damnable heresy and what is not? There there you go again with your A SECOND assumptions, life is easier than this my guy. Simply ask the fellow. It is not a matter of scores, that is so classless and carnal. Unfortunately by your ranking, believing that Satan slept with Eve is a little thing, but tithes(which Jesus classed a minor part of the law) is a major thing for you and a damnable heresy. Who exactly is your Lord?

It is left to Bidam, Image123, mbaemeka, Gombs, and nlmediator to open a new thread and discuss the matter like responsible people would. An example has been set by the trio I listed above and the three of them have set out to discuss 20 reasons why the WoF doctrine is false. It will be the height of irresponsibility and sheer laziness if one or some of the five aforementioned WoF symphatizers cannot make out time to discuss a doctrine they feel is worth mentioning all the time, especially when they are under the heat.

Why discuss the matter? What is there to discuss? Whether if slept with Satan or Eve did not sleep with Satan. i'd rather be caught talking to the wall rubbish. Why should i open a thread to find out if Gnoni said what i know that he said? That is crazy. Others have confirmed that he said it.

I do not believe Eve slept with a serpent. If BBG believes it, I would love to hear his views on a separate thread. If he is wrong, its our duty to point it out to him like he does with WoF and I trust that he will repeal the doctrine.

Okay.

If however any of the noise makers about Eve having sex with a Serpent are not man enough to open a separate thread to discuss it civilly with BBG by the end of today, I will open that thread at 9am tomorrow to begin a Q and A with BBG on the said doctrine. I will moderate the thread and God help any WoF symphatiser come there and spew any rubbish out and you will see me at my best.

EOD.

Open the thread already na. i'm hoping to see you at your best at last. i hope you are not referring to behaving like a tout, throwing insults, losing all decorum, and behaving very unchristian as your best.

WinsomeX:
If however any of the noise makers about Eve having sex with a Serpent are not man enough to open a separate thread to discuss it civilly with BBG by the end of today, I will open that thread at 9am tomorrow to begin a Q and A with BBG on the said doctrine. I will moderate the thread and God help any WoF symphatiser come there and spew any rubbish out and you will see me at my best.

EOD.

Gombs bro, please do the needful. We need the right gif for this. thanks.

WinsomeX:
Listen to me Image123, let me explain to you why you need to grow up and grow up real fast in your thinking. There are such things as damnable heresies: 1Tim 4:1ff and there are such things as doctrines or practices that do not matter in Christendom: ROM 14:1ff.

We don't need this lecture, do we? We just need Gnoni to man up to his beliefs or is it former beliefs. It is a simple issue of honesty and plainness, and moving forward. i don't care the class of heresy it falls under. It's a simple thing. Someone said Gnoni did A, Gnoni didn't deny. But his followers are demanding proof or fire. Proof has come and gone, it came in the form of witnesses.

What most WoF people teach, glorifying money and materialism, teaching they are gods, invoking cultic practices into Christianity, etc, see the WoF thread, are damnable heresies. THOSE WHO BELIEVE THEM WILL GO TO HELL!

What again has this got to do with WoF? Is Gnoni WoF?

Now if for a second BBG taught somewhere on this forum that Eve slept with the Serpent/Satan, the question is how does this translate to damnable heresy? how does it affect the Christian faith? The matter is as matter for conjecture. Just like many here who choose to read into scripture what scripture didn't say, he too might have seen it in that light. The last I checked, it was William Braham who taught that doctrine and Hagin and the rest, teaching false doctrines themselves, were busy criticizing him. So that his children have followed in his footstep here.

A second indeed. See the shameless way you are trying to impress it on us that it is a light thing. Gnone taught it for more tthan a second. i am of the opinion that he still teaches it to himself. that is not just a second. What is all this talk about damnable heresy? Who determines what is damnable heresy and what is not, you? You assume uneasily that Gnoni "might have seen it in that light". i think that is darkness, not light. He didn't see that kind of thing in the light, NEVER.

You are the one who cares about Eve and Serpent. Ask him yourself. And he has told you how to ask, open a new thread. It is not a matter that should give you migraine headaches now.

i thought i said it earlier, i don't give a damn i know he said it.

vooks:
BabaGnoni was sarcastic in the only thread that was ever produced by another dumbo Gombs.
Burden of proof remains with the one making a claim so Trustman or whoever silence is no proof of nothing. Logic 101. I have been called Shndemidemi here by Gombs and I felt like I could not dignify his low IQ by refuting or agreeing with him. Silence means a lot more than guilt sir!

Okay, i think i have some time to play today, unfortunately for many. So pardon that i'm going back to my mentions to deal with them more appropriately. Gnoni asked that we shelf this and others talked about thread focus etc, that's why i ignored it. But we all saw that he started finding it easier to breathe threatenings on whoever talked about the matter further, instead of simply accepting or denying the claim. i really do not understand why a christian would be threatening when accused either falsely or truly. Some people do this when their men of God and pastors are accused or spoken against, and we should discourage that. Jesus wasn't busy threatening when accused.
Gnoni wasn't sarcastic in that thread, he was just being himself. That's the way he usually writes. Burden of proof is not with anybody. Two people Bidam and Mbaemeka witnessed it, the reedlord guy also confirmed it. Trustman was in that thread and Sisterme, and i also recall the exchanges howbeit faintly. That was the time Sisterme was busy opening up contentious threads and promoting William Braham, i contributed in some but largely read/skimmed through most of it. Gnoni is not denying it, i don't know why. i hope it is on christian reasons, not because there is some evidence somewhere or an inclination to repeat it. We are waiting for drumb to open the thread he claimed he would. Again, quit the insults. You can intelligently discuss with others, yes you can.

chysam:
What am saying is that you should humbly explain to us why christ did not pay nor receive tithes,his followers didn't as well,and early Christians also did not for nearly 1500 years. Were all these people under the curse in Malachi?.Especially those who used to pay and received but stopped after giving their lives to Christ. Please explain in full and clearly.

How or why do you think Christ did not pay tithes?
He received tithes because He is God and tithes and offerings belong to Him. While here on earth, it was the duty of the house of Levi to receive tithes through the temple and law system. Today, tithes can still be given to God's house and we do not need to all go to Jerusalem to get to God's house.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

How do you conclude that Christ's followers did not give or receive tithes? As far as i know, some levites and priests were Christ's followers and people were still giving tithes and offerings at the temple in Jerusalem during the period of the early church.
Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.


how do you know who stopped what? Paul clearly made an old testament vow and offered offerings in the temple, how do you conclude that all of humanity(Christians) for 1500years, NO Christian gave or received the tithe. Are you God or omniscient? Or you have the database on your computer there?

trustman:
Because you are " depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain" (1 Timothy 6:5)

How did you come to this conclusion, or do you just quote scriptures like a random bible verse program/software?

you are yoked to legalistic tithing because of what you hope to 'get' from it. You are self-deceived, lost all objectivity and have brainwashed yourself into thinking that scripture must be interpreted to fall in line with your 'doctrines', whatever they are.

You are deceived to think so of me.

Who was OT primarily written to?
Who is the NT epistles written to?

Me.
Me.

Which covenant is any Jew part of today?

The New Covenant.

Will sticking to the Mosaic law and rejection of Jesus save any Jew today?

i don't think so.

Friend, when you think, think rightly, not with a warped mind.

When you live, live honestly with a pure conscience in the sight of God and men.

PS:
Like you said it yourself -
"Image123:
Learn to take simple corrections humbly instead of resorting to conjectures and childish 'last say' comments."

Where is the simple correction?

vooks:
But it should be clear from the animal sacrifices mentioned that the Levitical system is in question.
Even the most rabid pro-tithers agree that Malachi injunction is to the Levitical tithing regime. They get around this by claiming that they are tithing by 'faith' and not according to the abolished Levitical system. Of course this is a weak argument since the one can also argue that they are circumcising not according to Moses but according to Abraham

It should be clear that you are not following the context of the discussion.

MarkMiwerds:
If you are speaking Malachi 3:8-10 to me in an attempt to prove I am supposed to be tithing, you are quoting it out of context. It was for the sons of Jacob... not for me.

Actually, i am impressed. For me, i thought you were past learning, but i rejoice that you have improved. You used to think Malachi 3 was for levites and priests. Now, you have improved greatly to sons of Jacob, i'm happy for you, really.

Quoting if for me doesn't convince me that I am supposed to tithe. Especially since I know verse six says it was for the sons of Jacob.

Using this same line, one ,may say gullibly too that 2Corinthians was for the Corinthians, not for us. So no business with all it says, and you know how much you love it with its cheerful giving quote.
2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

i say this to you and your type.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

paxonel:
they say Christ will come one day and very soon, to blow a trumpet from the cloud and gather believers to heaven, there after God will destroy this world, imagin.
i think this is a primitive concept from some ancient primitive theologians and Africa has been a victim of this misconception over the years

i think you missed out the rest of what was said. Here it is.

Christ will come one day and very soon, to blow a trumpet from the cloud and gather believers to heaven. After this, there would be great tribulation and the antichrist's reign on earth for some time. After this, Jesus will come with the believers and reign on this earth for about 1000years, during which there will be peace and prosperity, and multiplying and replenishing and etcs. Then satan would again deceive some people and, there after God will destroy this world. And God would put all the righteous humans in the new/other world/earth and they will live happily ever after.

davien:
asalimpo and image123 are notorious for lying through their teeth for "jesus"..........asalimpo would twist the science and image123 would offer justifications for the evil acts of their deity...

What do you need? Jesus.