₦airaland Forum

vooks:
Abraham's circumcision too is as much the Word of God as praying in tongues. Do you circumcise in obedience to the Word to fulfill all righteousness?

Go and read my earlier replies to your logic question.

MarkMiwerds:
December 2013-February 2014.

Very good. So we have nothing further to discuss on that.

MarkMiwerds:
To some extent, yes.

The Bible does not say Melchizedek rushed to that Valley where he met Abram.

But likewise, the Bible does not say we are to tithe because Abram tithed.

good of you. We're in agreement.

MarkMiwerds:
It is foolish to use Abram's tithe to prove a man-made law.

1. Abram tithed something entirely different than the tithe you insist is to be done.
2. Abram tithed something that did not even belong to him... spoils of war that he told God he would not claim as his own.
3. It matters not that Abram tithed before the Law. Once God said his tithe was to be agricultural, spoils of war could not be tithed from any longer.
4. God wanted far less from spoils of war than a tenth... far, far less.

You argue tithes are to be observed since they were given before the law. Yet, the Word of God proves that the tithe observed before the Law was nullified once the Law was established.

Have we ever discussed this? Any recall?

MarkMiwerds:
As is yours.

So you agree he's doing private interpretation?

chysam:
I disagree with you sir even though you are beginning to take this issue personal.You see quotes and counter quotes can and will never help a layman find direction on this.Supposing a new convert is considering whether or not tithing is good n Christendom,qoutes from everwhere would not help him.Firstly he understands christ is his master and his ideologies he must follow.To my mnd and to the minds of reasonable people,those things he personally did physically should be our first priority,then we follow his words.Please I want any or all tithe paying advocators to simply tell us as is led by the spirit why Christ and his followers did not tithe.Also tell us why those who tithed previously stopped tithing upon receiving/accepting christ as their personal lord and saviou.All of us here know such people as is recorded in the bible.The simple education we need here is why this was so.Let those who know better teach us please.Importantly people who even wrote the bible did not tithe and yet performed great miracles and even raised the dead.I think the focal point should be why they were holy enough to write the bible and perform miracles even while disobeying the law of tithing.Please am really confused about this and very curious to know.Is it that we are better christians now? Or was it that they did not place value to that law? Or is it that chrisy was paying in secret without informing his disciples? Or was it that they as Christians had nothing seriouly in common with judizers? Or is it that they will later pay their own tithe in heaven? Please explain this area.I think saul before he became Paul tithed and even killed the christians,did he continue to tithe as a christian after he left judaism? Please let somebody educate me on this.My curiosity hinges on jesus' statement that he did not come to destro the law but to keep it,but why was his teachings different from the book he met on ground? As Christians,whose tradition are we supposed to emulate? Judaism or Christianity? Which did jesus'followers emulate? Judaism or Christianity? Infact why must there be two factions to start with since we are told all scriptures are from/of God?. Abi the disciples don't forget say all scriptures are of God before disobeying with..........Aaaah! I dey fear to mention one name oo because I no whether to say hin too disobey the scriptures. Any way let a pastor or someone vast in tithing and payment/receipt help me.Thanks

You don't need help, is it by force to tithe? Why looking for someone to convince you?

christemmbassey:
have u ever wondered why he had to rush to meet Abram on d way? Abram gave those war spoils to Melchi in appreciation, lf u did nt know, know today dat Melchi action was very clear,

Your conjecture is what scriptures call private interpretation.

vooks:
You are hopelessly obtuse

Calling anyone obtuse or negro is not cool, just in case you don't know. You don't even need to be a christian to know this. Remove the log in your eyes instead of intensifying vain efforts trying to condemn others.

trustman:
I know you enjoy these kinds of exchanges.

What exchange? i don't want worthless exchange of revelations. Go and get better revelation, like revelation about God and His ways. Stop having revelations about me.

If I turn it now to a critical interpretation of Scripture you'll 'run for cover'

Like when?

I hope you still have in mind what this thread is all about?

Remind me please.

christemmbassey:
Melchi required those war spoils he got, remember, he left his house, journeyed and gave bread and wine to elicit what he got.

What?

WinsomeX:
Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Why don't we look at the scripture instead of continual conjectures that are fruitless.

1. Paul rebuked Peter.

To be ACCURATE, the scriptures you quoted says PAUL WITHSTOOD PETER. It doesn't say Paul rebuked Peter. There is a difference. Also, IT WAS TO THE FACE. What effort have you made in withstanding any of those fellows to the face(assuming you are even mates). This pattern is what Jesus commanded.
Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.

Also,
1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

On these counts above, you have being wrong. Note that Timothy is an elder and even head of the elders he was to rebuke IF they sinned. He wasn't rebuking them over 10naira doctrines. Also, the correction was to be in meekness.

2. This rebuke was in public, not an isolated ministers conference as Gombs wants us to believe. It was in Antioch, the same place they were first called Christians.

Well, i don't know for sure how many people were there, and nobody has evidence to be cocksure. i do know though that the correction was done in the spirit of meekness and love. That was what Paul preached. It wasn't done with intent to ridicule, malign and falsely accuse or condemn.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

3. There is nothing in that scripture that depicts a sort of ministerial heriachy were Paul and Peter were mates. In those days the apostles were faithful to Jesus words that we are all brethren to the extent that a latter or Junior apostle like Paul could rebuke a senior one like Peter.

Paul and Peter were foundational apostles in christianity. They were wise master builders and pillars, you are not. not all the first century christians were.
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
2Co 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

That we are brethren doesn't mean that we are equal or mates though. You and John Baptist are not the same. This is truth, not carnality. Infact, some bible passage says you are supposed to be greater than him. So, we are not all equal in the kingdom. That we are brethren or brothers is not equality or being mates. i guess you have senior or junior siblings or you have seen people who have. Even twins have elder and younger. being brethren is oneness and unity, not equality of position. There are elders, there are young men, there are children.

This passage is no justification for rebellion or confusion in church but the fact that believers should submit one to another and if God will speak through the least of apostles, the for most apostle should listen.

I am not sure what version if scripture Imsge123 is using to come to a conclusion of mates on a certain heriarchy.

It is unfortunate this has become more of an exercise at trying to rebut instead of honest learning. Therefore, i expect this to go right past most of you. While some of the deceived smart ones would be looking for weak points in the post to attack and twist logic on its head with. Very unfortunate, folks being made worse than what they seek to condemn by their flesh.

shdemidemi:
When it comes to twisting scriptures, you sure do not have a rival, at least none on this forum that I know.

Baseless and unfounded accusations. Some fellows thought worse of Jesus too. i asked you on the other thread you made this same accusation to produce just ONE scripture that i twisted from that thread. You were unable to. My last paragraph.

You are right, the man is sleeping, if he was truly of God, but his work is very much alive hence why we contend it to avoid the adversities it might cause to the body of Christ.

His works that you bring up are very much unalive until you bring them up. How many good things about him have you brought up? All you do is failed attempts to gloat over some of his alleged excesses.

So I should be looking for Chris Oyaks or his fellow mind science, money doubling, greed gospel heralding pi-mps in camera before I can speak the truth like Paul did!

You can speak the truth without particularly maligning Chris Oyaks and whoever else you think you have anything on. If you claim to be doing like Paul, then do like Paul, withstand them to the face as it were. You can't be doing something different from Paul and be monkeying yourself here by twisting Galatians 2 saying you are doing like Paul.

Are we right or wrong for all of that have been revealed so far, even with the 'midas touch' slight disapproval of the repulsive and ungodly acts of these men?

You're have been clearly wrong on many issues, and debatably right on few. BTW, there is nothing you have revealed so far, well to be fair, nothing to me.

I wonder what your reply will be if I come to you and call you an hypocrite to your face. Your reaction will show us how kind and loving Paul really was with Peter.

You've done worse falsely and severally to me, the world did not end. Paul wasn't gloating like a rabid animal over Peter's mistake. You and your fellows majorly are gloating like a rabid animal over others' mistake.

Now age and material acquisitions have come in. No wonder Paul told Timothy to care less about his age when the old wolves come along.

PS- In no way did they compare to Paul in any way or form according to scripture. When Paul decided to speak as they would do, bragging about credentials, none of them came close to what Apostle Paul presented.

2 cor 11
22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;

26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

Truth is what came in. i didn't mention anything about age, i said they were mates. And i immediately explained in the SAME SENTENCE that they were both apostles with marks and credibility. It wasn't apostle to new convert. You(i mean you all) and most of the fellows you guysattempt to gloat over are not mates in any sphere (physical/biologically, academically, materially, ministerially, and whatever ally you want to compare). You couldn't achieve a fraction of what they've done in three lifetimes. you can contest that please. Are you a spiritual leader in Nigeria or any part of the world?
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

You twisted 2Corinthians 11 BTW. Paul wasn't referring to Peter or any of the apostles in that chapter. Read carefully who he was referring to.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Peter or John or Matthew were not the ones bragging about credentials. It was deceitful workers that came to the church. These are the ones that couldn't come close to what Apostle Paul presented.

trustman:
Thank you for your response.
It has gone a long way to further reveal another side of you.

Congrats but no congrats. Go and get better revelation, like revelation about God and His ways. Stop having revelations about me.

Zikkyy:
What has Abrahams tithe gat to do with Leviticus 27 where God defined his tithe? Are you trying to extend God's definition of tithe?

Abraham's tithe is as much the Word of God as is Leviticus. Are you trying to cut out of the Bible?

Zikkyy:
Says who? ya pastor?

Basic maths.

..and a whole what? a whole human being?

unless you provide a proper definition of tithe, there is no way ya definition will make sense. you are yet to tell us if the tenth car waiting to be served at a petrol station should be offered as tithe to the Lord, or if the tenth person waiting to pay for purchases at a check out counter should be offered as tithe to the Lord.

Those are foolish questions i do not need to deal with. You will only hear such from depraved minds bent on logically twisting the Word to their own destruction.

..and you forget that 10% of a whole may not be another whole. What is 10% of a whole egg? another whole egg?

i didn't forget. You have resorted to the ridiculous, you used to present saner points than these, what happened.

MarkMiwerds:
And you, Image123, forget that God said in His Word what "whole" He required to be tithed from.

Was it from the whole Earth? Nada! It was from the whole of the land that God had promised to Jacob. That is where God said tithe was to come from.

He also said that what was to be tithed from that "whole" was agricultural products, not money.

It is you who is hurting, not us who rightly divide the Word of Truth.

Abraham tithed before Israel was born, how do you always manage to forget that? Tithes do not need to be 'required 'before it can be given, why do you consistently fail to internerlize that? You have also been shown scriptures of Israelites who gave tithes of more than agric produce, God did not complain.

WinsomeX:
Since, I am the only one who has refuted Hagin here, I know this comment is for me. Now provide one statement of mine on this thread or on the one that led to this one, were I "praised" the book to high heaven. If you cannot, you are apparently the confused one.

While I do not deny that some of my friends here believe there is something to learn from Midas Touch, my position on it is that it is a hypocritical work that was never designed to birth any lasting reforms among WoF adherents and that is why its message has been largely ignored by them.

i referred to many people (fellas and LOT) in my post. Your comprehension let you down yet again, or you decided to claim it by faith personally. Your statement here seems to be different from this your earlier one sha. i'm not like your fellows that excel in false accusations. i've not accused you.

https://www.nairaland.com/1939255/bankruptcy-prosperity-gospel-exercise-biblical/6#27263211

Zikkyy:
...and the Lord did not request for a tithe of the 'many things that belong to him'. His command was clear enough, he requested for a tithe of farm produce.



This is not about the many things that belong to the Lord; it is about the 'tithe' that belong to the Lord. Yes, the earth is the Lord's but he did not command that a tithe of the 'earth' be given to Him. Instead he requested for a tithe of Farm produce.

Like the one Abraham gave et all, there goes the circle again.

Zikkyy:
Its not me 'carving ma opinions', it's the message you are sending. You told us 'a tenth is a tithe offered or not'. meaning all tenths are tithes.



The cars at the petrol station owned by more than one person. If we go by ya definition that a tenth is a tithe, it therefore mean that the tenth car on the queue is a tithe, abi? Remember that ya definition did not say that all items must belong to one person. We can also say that the 'tenth' person (in a queue) waiting to pay for purchases at a check out counter is a tithe. So you understand why ya definition of tithe cannot be coming from God.



10% of 13 children will require taking a whole and maybe an arm or leg from another child. Your tithing practice is definitely Babylonian. Can you imagine image123 tithing children, and in bits for that matter

Ridiculous conclusion, you forget deliberately that tithe is 10% of a whole. You hurt yourself when you unthink this way, i should warn.

vooks:
It is your lame defence on tithing; that ALL scriptures is inspired and tithing is part of 'ALL' and you would not hear none of 'that was not meant for us'. You want me to remind you of how Candour and Miwerds wiped the floor with your illogic?

lol, you've being making attempts to read already. Good for your health, i should add.

trustman:
If you truly know please be kind enough to tell us.
Kindly make your explanation as simple as possible for easy comprehension.

Oh, you don't have time or know the way to God? When did i become the one that teaches and explain bible to you? i'm i no more a bible twister and other such names you think of me?

HAHAHAHA, now fellas are "refuting" Hagin? i thought this book of his was the bomb praised to high heavens? Confused lot.

trustman:
Here you go again seeking to divert attention from the issues at hand and go through an 'escape route'.
As soon as you're unable to face reality you look for a quick way out.

You talk like an ignorant man, i don't escape. Ask your seniors on NL.

MarkMiwerds:
maybe you needs to find out what that means. Nadab and Abihu offered that which the Lord had not commanded. It did not become "sanctified" on the altar.

The Priests in Malachi offered sick and blind animals. They did not become "sanctified".

That is why you need to find time and God to tell you what it means. It is God that said it, not me. i knew already that you do not know, hence the advice.

vooks:
So, why stop at tithes, kill bulls as well, grow hyssop and sprinkle the blood and the ashes

You may need to dedicate time to reading my previous posts on tithes on this forum, i really don't have the time to babysit your types.

vooks:
You imagine that GIVEN;
1. All Scriptures is inspired and
2. Scriptures taught tithing

THEREFORE tithing is eternal and saying tithing is not for Christians is rejecting divine inspiration of the scriptures
Two facts and a fallacious conclusion. pathetic

You imagined that if you met a healed leper, you'd prescribe that he offers animal sacrifices because ALL SCRIPTURES IS INSPIRED, epic.

vooks:
So if everything belongs to the Lord, wasn't it redundant saying so in this verse?

You'll need to ask God or maybe your pastor.

Zikkyy:
I will mind ma business if you stop making ya business ma business.

As long as you or ya pastor continue to teach or refer to the pastoral tithe as God's tithe, i will continue to make ya business ma business

You need a life then.

MarkMiwerds:
any tithe that is given contrary to the tithe that God decreed in His Word is a pagan tithe.

God said His tithes were to go to Levites, widows, orphans & strangers in Israel. He said that it was to be observed as He had declared.

So, Image & company are only fooling themselves if they think their form of tithing is pleasing God.

It is the altar that sanctifies the gift, and it is the temple that sanctifies the gold. Go, find time and God to learn what that means.

vooks:
Why not teach circumcision and animal sacrifices then since you would not go to hell for saying that?
And while at it, don't let your wife near the church during her you know what

You're the one with issues bro, it's your interpretation. i should be the one asking what is hindering you.

Zikkyy:
See the bit in blue font colour...

Leviticus 27:30-32 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.

We've been through this before. Many things belong to the Lord in that chapter if you care to read through. It in no way implies that whatever is not written in that one chapter does not belong to the Lord. For goodness sake, the earth is the Lord's.

Zikkyy:
I don't know what you talking about.



@bolded, you are saying...in a queue of vehicles waiting to purchase petrol at a station, the 'tenth' car is a tithe? or in a family of 13, the 'tenth' child is a tithe, abi? You see ya self Are you sure you are not practicing babylonian version of tithe?

check your posts history maybe.

At@ , you're the one saying not me. Learn to ask questions intelligently instead of stereotyping or carving your opinions on another. If your queue of cars belong to one person and are the same model, the tenth would be a tithe, which of course is 10%. When you calculate 10% of your 13children, the answer is the tenth which is your tithe.