₦airaland Forum

davien:
you tell me i'm the atheist here
....from mormonism to ebionites to yahwehists to church of "christ" etc.....they all cling the name "christianity" and the same holy book....but differ in little but noticeable ways.....for example most orthodoxy accept the theory of evolution.....the church of "christ" doesn't....they don't even have crosses or musical instruments....

You insinuated there were about 41000 DIFFERENT views in a bid to discredit faith and Christianity. Now you say little but noticeable ways. He that has the Son of God has life, he that has not the Son has no life. It is that plain, there are no 41000 ways about it.

WinsomeX:
I think I get what you mean now: you are saying if anti tithers do not see giving as a requirement and thus are at liberty to give or not; we should also maintain the same stance for tithing which we also see as not a requirement. We shouldn't insist people should not tithe. To do so is to maintain double standard.

I agree with you. If this is the attitude, then it is double standard indeed.


.

Exactly.

davien:
asalimpo......and image123 can you see why these accounts serve as 0 proof to anyone but a particular individuals' taste of already chosen religion? ……


does this claim make you want to convert to islam?...or would you require more than someone's traumatized oxygen deprived delusion..? then you should understand why your claims also don't convince me....

CHRISTIAN CONVERTS TO MUSLIM AFTER NDE
MUSLIM CONVERT TO CHRISTIAN
CHRISTIAN TO HINDU
HINDU TO CHRISTIAN
PAGAN TO CHRISTIAN
CHRISTIAN TO ATHEIST AFTER NDE
ATHEIST TO MUSLIM
MUSLIM TO ATHEIST
CHRISTIAN TO CHRISTIAN
ATHEIST TO ATHEIST
MORMON TO ATHEIST
ATHEIST TO JEHOVAHS WITNESS
JEHOVAHS WITNESS TO ATHEIST


what do you think is causing all these shifting convertions.....are all the "gods" real

For one, the report is most likely false as the website claims. Two, faith is in Jesus, should be in Jesus foundationally, not in people's experiences.

WinsomeX:
Mr Whatever-that-means, if you have ever written a vague text, this one will take number one. But let me assume I understand you.



If I claim giving is not a requirement I mean this:

1. Giving is not compulsory.
2. Giving is not a prerequisite. If it is, that put an end to the grace concept in the NT.
3. Giving is not law.
4. But giving is fruit of Christian love and that is what compels. Not a requirement.

If you understand this, you will understand why I am at liberty to give or not.



Tithing is not a requirement in the NT. I cannot see a double standard there.

You may however shed more light on whatever-you-mean by double standard.

I edited the post just now.

davien:
In myriad of ways yes....some things are similar....but all in all the bible is sourced for all.....

Do they serve 41000 gods? Do they believe in the lordship of 41000 Jesus? Do they believe Jesus died in 41000 ways? How are they fundamentally different, and in how many ways?

davien:
I am not talking of positions to "god"....but rather which one of the 41,000 is true and how you know its true.....compared to the vast majority that also tag "christian" to themselves.....and contrasting to other beliefs....

Are the so called 41000 different?

You say giving is not a requirement (whatever that means), yet you do it or claim to. If we say tithing is not a requirement(whatever that means), you will INSIST don't do it. Double standard.


edited. Sorry I missed the second not.

davien:
okay....but why are all religions based on faith and yours as well?....doesn't that place the god of christianity on the same grounds with the rest?.....and even still christianity is divided into over 41,000 denominations how do i know the right one....

It's like asking why there are millions of websites on the internet. Not all are on the same level. There are over 200countries playing soccer, only one is champion. About 41000 denominations or whatever, are you insinuating that they are 41000 DIFFERENT ways to God. That would be a crass and misinformed position/view to take. It's either Jesus is Lord or Jesus is not. It's either God is holy or God is not. There are no 41000 different positions on the fundamentals of the christian faith.

Dapo777:
That's a very weak analogy,.this is a Better one: the legislative, judiciary and executive make laws,But does that exempt them from abiding by the laws They make?
Strong analogy ^^

Your lawmakers are your equals in a sense and appointed by you. Your teachers were not.

Weah96:
School teachers speak for themselves. God doesn't ever speak for himself.

Irrelevant. The point made is that the school teachers/lawmakers/judge is not always necessarily subject.

Dapo777:
Is it not ur Bible that states that If They slap u on one side of the face,turn to the other side to be slapped,So why is Yahweh revenging? He simply can't obey his own rule!!!!!

What an ironical deity

You dodged ALL my questions? Why? Yahweh is not human, you are. Did your teachers wear uniform and white socks and Brown sandals?

Dapo777:
You still haven't answered the question. I wonder how u pass ur exam.

Let me repeat the question.

Is it right for babies to be killed even If their parents are evil?

Couldn't the Israelites adopt the children as theirs rather than kill them? Those children won't Remember a thing When They grow up.
I understand revenge,But If They had adopted them When They know Nothing,They won't remember anything When They are adult.

Same question goes to braveguy Since he is the one doing most of the answering here.

Oh so you want us to pluck leaves? You've gracelessly accepted you were wrong about Psalm 137? You forgot to paste the link to where i ignored your question? Do you really think this is like some exam for me? Think again.
To start with, we should iron out the fact that you have little or no idea about what is right or what is evil BECAUSE you have no moral compass or base. Now for instance, if you claim to understand revenge or payback or cause and effect, is it right? Is cause and effect right? This is a good step in answering your question.

davien:
learning.....so why should faith be a factor in all these....is it the right way to know what is true?...

This is a turn from what we're discussing, not a bad turn though. Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. That's like a constant in the spiritual equation. Faith is the way to God as it were, so if one wants to know God or "see" God as it were, or even understand God better, faith is it. Believing is seeing in that realm. If you can believe, you will see.

davien:
really?....perhaps you fail to understand that spontaneous generation was introduced as how "god" did it......if you say otherwise i'm interested in your source.....solve my "delusion"...

Spontaneous generation is not how God did it. The bible records how God did it, by His power, by His Word, by His great might, by faith. Spontaneous generation is a dead and obsolete hypothesis, miracles are not. Spontaneous hypothesis allegedly have wrapped pieces of bread producing rats anything, anywhere. Decayed meat give birth to maggots. Those aren't miracle, The Red Sea doesn't part every other day. Neither does water turn into wine every weekend. Stop the folly.

Dapo777:
HahahahahaHahahahaha,So When Yahweh sent Samuel to tell Saul to kill every amalekite, it wasn't Biblical Abi?
Was Samuel not a man of God? Was it not God that told Samuel to tell Saul to kill every amalekites including their infants? So If that isn't Biblical according to you,why is it in the Bible?

Let me see your answer to that.

You've gracelessly accepted you were wrong about Psalm 137? You forgot to paste the link to where i ignored your question?
You asked about a pastor asking me to kill MY baby and i asked on what basis? You also mentioned stuff about becoming like Osama? All these have no link with the account you're trying to hang them on in 1Samuel.You've demonstrated very poor, vague and twisted knowledge of the bible thus far. You should be more careful and less assertive as regards what is biblical or not biblical.

You want to know why God told king Saul to exterminate the Amalekites. It has being told you, and i would also tell you why either the long way or short way. But you know what we're doing? We're plucking leaves as against pulling out the roots of a tree. Thanks be to God, i can conveniently do the two. It's up to you what you really want.

davien:
So far you've avoided all my questions....i thought a theist like you could defend your beliefs but you can't.....you open a book all your life and can't understand how a stick spontaneously generated a snake....smh!

Perhaps you think wrongly a lot. Sticks don't always become snakes in the bible, that is not what the debunked spontaneous generation is about. You deceive yourself to even attempt that. How long and how far would you deceive yourself?

Dapo777:
Ofcourse I know about cause and effect,But the ordering of babies to be killed has Nothing to do with cause and effect,It's pure wickedness at It's peak!!!

Why do Christians like u frown at abortion done by someone yet you defend your Yahweh that orders abortion and murdering of innocent children?
Would you kill ur baby If a pastor ask you to do So,because the Yahweh told the pastor that the baby would be a dangerous person in future more dangerous than osama bin ladin, that was the question I asked u that u ignored.

You see I am not lying against u,It's a difficult question I kn,But don't ignore it, just tell me the truth,u agree that Yahweh is wicked and sadistic.

i'm skipping a lot of things to try and accommodate you. You totally missed your interpretation of Psalm 137 and that is where my point is. You'd help yourself not to try to subtly move my explanation and posts on that passage to some other passage. It's onestep at a time, look before you leap. Psalm 137 says nothing about any order, is that clear?
Now, Yahweh is God, you're not. The difference is greater than day and night. i wouldn't frown at a judge judging without partiality. However, i'd frown at jungle justice.
On what basis would a pastor ask me to kill anyone? Please, paste the link of where i ignored your question, thanks. Is it biblical for God to tell a pastor to tell me to kill someone because he'd be like Osama bla bla? Or are you just making things up and spinning imaginary questions?
God is not wicked or sadistic, you have a very poor perspective and understanding of Him.

davien:
you told me
and so i am asking what amount or type of thinking can i arrive for an answer of alleged snake and donkey talking...?

[b] you do realise being open minded isn't accepting baseless claims right?.... nor any of those attributes.....and telling me whatever definition i see in the dictionary as "supernatural" is what it is does not satisfy the question.....much like me asking you to read what space is defined and whatever you see defines it...... you claim to have witnessed the "supernatural" and i want your expertise to know what it is and how i can detect what is "supernatural" and what isn't.....your definition of "not nature" makes it feasible for me to deduce imaginary concepts that indeed are not part of nature and cannot be artificially created e.g a minotaur.....half man....half bull.. or santa....

And also because millions believe something contradictory and unverify-able exists doesn't mean i should reconsider it being possible.....if i told you something like a married bachelor exists and millions believe me therefore you should have a re-think of it being possible would you automatically start believing a concept you have no idea of? [/b]

really?.....define what you understand to be outer body experiences and why you think its real? and also miracles please...

really?....so can you tell me how living things came to be.....i'd love to hear it...and please state how you knew.....because you could win a nobel prize by uncovering the mysteries of how life came to be... [/b]

i'm not connected to a computer so i'm replying in paragraphs as against quoting. When i assured you of getting answers if you work hard and think hard, thatis simply another way of expressing a biblical and even general truth "seek and you shall find". It was not a call or promise by me to answer every irrelevant question you repeatedly ask me.

i would not oblige you in your quest about the supernatural at this time. That is your cup of tea, make do with the dictionary definitions.
Again, my point about millions of people is that you be more circumspect in dismissing other people's claims especially when so many are claiming same.
Miracles are real, people experience them all the time. i have also.
Living things come to be by reproduction. The spontaneous ish purports that living things come out of non living things, they just appear as a matter of course.

Dapo777:
Ok I get ur point.

But u still didn't tackle the question I asked. What offence have babies committed to make them get killed? Let's overlook that ambiguous verse Since u said It's unknown let's consider other verses that God clearly orders the killing of innocent babies.
What is the offence of those babies?
Thanks

No baby committed offence, i said that already from beginning. It's reaping what you sow.It's payback, retribution. Babylon did what they did and were to be paid back. It's a law, it is reality, you reap what you sow. It's not about children offending. If a man is hardworking, he and his would reap the benefits. If a pregnant woman is careless, she and her baby would reap the reward. It's not about what offences the unborn child committed. The child may be born with permanent defects or disabilities or even die. That is the law of cause and effect, sowing and reaping. If a nation is careless and wasteful, it's citizens and future will suffer the consequences. This is reality and you face and use the facts, not play emotional tantrums with them.

BraveGuy:
@Image123
Let Dapo777 (or whoever) have the last say. Winning an argument does not mean a soul has been saved or God is pleased. For me, I'd rather please God than win an argument. What God expects me to do, I have done.... share the Gospel that God loves and has a plan for every man. But, if after you have shared the Gospel, the people reject it, there is nothing else to be done, the rest is just fruitless intellectual exercise. Your time would be better used doing something fruitful with your time. God bless you, my brother.

Thanks brother. i do know and understand what you've said. i'm leaving him and them without an excuse. i'd advice and encourage most christians to abstain from arguing with or even engaging unbelievers. We're generally not called or even built to do that, we're called to preach the gospel and pray and that we can all and should all do. i do what i do when i have the time because by God's grace, i have the gift and calling to do it. He's not left them without a witness and that witness stands against them. Not every believer has that, and i sincerely don't encourage others to do it. Thanks a million.

Dapo777:
So When u don't understand the Bible,the best explanation is that it is unknown?
So how is smashing a baby's head on rock a punishment or retribution?
Why are the babies at the receiving end,What have the babies done to get their head smashed?

Ignore this one and it means u Av accepted how sadistic Yahweh is.

You were the one i advised to read Psalm 137 again i think? Your laziness and insincerity didn't permit you i guess? The fellow "he" is unknown not just to me but to the psalmist writer. It's a general 'he', that is whoever. i've never ignored you or any of your posts. You can prove that statement wrong. However, if you again insinuate that i'm ignoring you again, i would ignore you. i'm done with your deceit.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. 137:2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof. 137:3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. 137:4 How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land? 137:5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. 137:6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. 137:7 Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof. 137:8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Retribution means payback. Verses 7and 8 show that Babylon has carried out some action and will be paid back, rewarded, served in the same coin, AS THOU HAS SERVED. Verse 9 is in the same context of retribution to Babylon. So much for literacy.

Dapo777:
When u say spiritual man,do u mean a brainwashed man that gives himself any explanation that makes sense to him for obviously senseless things?

That sounds like the average atheist so no. That's not a spiritual man's definition.

Dapo777:
You are still beating around the bush boy!
You haven't answered my question,because I can't see who "he" is in your response above.
And u Ar attacking me instead of answering my question, Which is a fallacy called argumentum ad hominem.

Let me ask again fr clarity. Who is the "he" in psalm 137:9?

Who is the "he".in psalm 137:9?

I need a simple answer ,not u telling me about who I am,or my ego bla bla bla.
Just a simple answer to the question! Stop committing argument ad hominem.

You made some assumptions and asked about promises and encouragement which i replied so stop lying. Perhaps you find it hard to stick to a line of thought. Good to see you learning new things anyway.
Now that it is ESTABLISHED that you goofed totally on Psalm 137:9 and most likely you do same on many theological issues, i'll help you. The 'he' in that verse is unknown, not specific, generic. It is a prayer for retribution stating how whoever would carry out the retribution would feel exactly how the Babylonians felt when they were sowing their action.

Dapo777:
What Ar u talking abt? U Ar So confused

PeterKen said "I don't want to jump". You're saying that he already accepted that he jumped. Go back and read.

queencalipso:
Honey am not beinng emotional okey, sentiments aside just take your time and watch the CCTV footage provided by the SCOAN a building can not just go down like that as a result of structural defect. Watch it and also watch other controlled demolition. Then u can tell me the difference.

I've watched it. It still doesn't answer the question na. Was there a structural defect?

Thanks, Nigeria is doing pretty well against Ebola and i certainly do not rule out the effects of prayers in curbing this plague. Show me your faith by your works as it were.

davien:


really so what amount of thinking would i use to verify a snake talked?..or do you employ wishful thinking



And i want you to define what you understand to be "supernatural" and how to identify things "supernatural"....(because all believers define it differently)



And saying millions of people believe "A" doesn't make "A" true...understand?



And how can you tell mo flied to "heaven"..let alone any "supernatural" occurrence to have taken place?...do you believe the account?...and why?



And how can you testify a "miracle" has taken place?....have you ever bothered to trace one?....if you did....did you find it to be "not natural" a.k.a "supernatural"?



Lastly do you believe in "spontaneous generation"...?

We've not talked about verifying if a snake talked, have we? Are you opposed to thinking about what i tell you? You want to swallow hook, line and sinker? i want you to think as against making hasty generalizations, emotional outbursts, and moral fallacies which are common traits of unbelievers.

Whatever you see in the dictionary as the definition of supernatural is what supernatural is. Saying millions of people believe is to make you slow down and be more careful as against your dismissive attitude to theological matters. Take more time, patience, carefulness, open mindedness and wisdom before making assertive conclusions.

i don't know or care if Mo' flew to heaven. i wouldn't rule out the possibility hastily too. Out of the body experience is real and not limited to a particular religion or group. i can testify of miracles as i have seen a few. They happened to me and close people, so it's not "dem say" that i need to trace anywhere.

'Spontaneous generation', like living things NATURALLY being formed from non living things regularly or as a way of life? No, i don't believe it. Why, because i know how living things come to be.

queencalipso:
Did they have permission for 12 story building or not? Some one. Gave you a factual answer and here you are looking for a yes or no because of your hate for the man. U just can't accept the fact that the man u so much wish death is not likely to be killed because he is innocent.

I don't know if they had permit for 12 storey building. i don't worship there and i don't work there. Having permit to build 12storey building is not an excuse for building 5/6 storey on 2storey foundation if that is what was done. Adeniyi seemed to be speaking on their behalf and may perhaps know more about them. That is why i asked him. What i heard was that the building that collapsed was on a two storey foundation. i was hoping to verify from Adeniyi if that was false or true. i don't hate any man not to talk of wish any man dead. Calm down and stop being emotional.

AdeniyiA:
your straight answer does not work.
i gave you a factual answer which you need to deduce. it requires a simple comprehension.

My straight answer? It's not my answer, it's simply the answer. Beating about the bush implies there might actually be something you're trying to hide afterall. What is the factual answer you gave? Anything can be deduced from insinuations. Your post was a group of questions and excuses. Questions and excuses aren't what is required.

AdeniyiA:
Did you ever read it that approval was obtained for 12 storeys and the foundations /reinforcement /iron bars prove that?
come on, isn't it obvious that we're too judgmental in Nigeria without any shred of proven evidence to back it up and most times these are propelled by our hidden &unprovoked hatred ? You can't believe all news on paper, most are guessed, insinuated and unsubstantiated

It was a question i asked and you didn't answer it. It's not time for sensationalism and autosuggestion.
Did SCOAN build a five or six storey building on a two storey foundation? Answers would sound something like, NO they didn't- YES they did but- I don't know.
Please answer.

davien:
cool so what is supernatural then?........"not nature" a.k.a "supernatural" you haven't defined nor gave an example of what i can point to as supernatural.....
you've been avoiding all these questions.....do not be a subtle person....remember the "devil" you believe in allegedly has this trait...

Cool or cold? You don't believe in anything supernatural, at least you see it in the dictionary now. Millions of people believe and attest to experience the supernatural. You're ridiculously rude and dishonest as i've noticed. Why not check dictionaries for the definition of supernatural or you need the links yet again? An example of a supernatural experience is Mo' flying to heaven, i thought i already referred to that as supernatural? Miracles are supernatural.
i'm not being subtle. i'd say maybe evasive BECAUSE i have to get you to think since you claim to and take pride in it. You wouldn't appreciate my answers if i spoonfed you, and i'd be neglecting one of the Lord Jesus' advice in the process. When you think honestly and sincerely and deeply, you'd arrive at saner and better conclusions i hope. If you stay through and think and work hard, you get all the answers, that i can promise.

Dapo777:
Have gone there to check but It's too long.can u summarize?

lazy boy.hehehe