₦airaland Forum

rudedough: Still lying? I thought you said you did not quote the passage?



Still lying after picture evidence? Bro you need to come out of this religion cos religion will only teach you how to lie and fight and kill people. See how you are lying confidently after proof in picture. That is what religion teaches you.

Oh, so you think you are the passage? You need help.

mazaje: Answering islam is a christian website. . . Isra and Mi'raj is the hadith that talks about it. . .The Koranic verses have nothing to do with what you are saying. . .

http://quran.com/46

see verse 8 and 9.

Also read the koran passages given in that site. At least, you usually listen to atheists and other antichristians on christianity and the Bible. That hadith is a vision he purportedly had, he was unsure of his final destination and every good muslim is expected to be, they see it as humility.

mazaje: That is not yours. . .Their creator is different from yours. . .And he calls yours false. . .There is no God and creator but Allah who sent Mohammed as his last messenger. . .

Sure thing, he still is not in your class. And i'm sure no nigerian would be 'angry' with him as they may be with you.

mazaje: According to you. . .Accoring to Tbaba and the Koran Allah is the only God. . .

At least, he believes in the existence of a Creator?

mazaje: You want me to believe what you are saying about islam from christain apologist?. . . .

Mohammed according to the hadith ascended to paradise on the back of a white horse. . .That is all. . .

The links give you passages from the koran, you can check them up. Yahoo is not a christian apologist, is it? Your own research that i asked you to do is not a christian apologist, is it? BTW, what hadith says what you are saying? Remember to check up those koran passages.

peterphd: Is allah a god or God?

Jehovah is the only God.

OlaoChi: He's listening to you but why should he believe again since he claims to have surpassed your level of Bible understanding
You have to prove you are right and he's wrong and not just come claiming he doesn't understand Bible; He was once Christian like many other atheist

He's not listening and he was never a christian. A christian is a follower of Christ, who has become BORN AGAIN, saved and FORGIVEN.

OlaoChi: calling someone a liar and son of the devil just in attempt to make the person feel bad or what?

i'm not trying to make him feel bad. Does the doctor try to make one feel bad by telling the truth of one's condition? A human is either a child oof God or a child oof the devil, there is no sitting on the fence.

mazaje: Sure, he is presently in paradise with Allah. . .The hadith says so. . .He was taken into paradise on the back of a winged horse from the al'aqsar mosque. . .He was saved from the fires of hell to which you will go into for not accepting islam as the true path. . .

Google is still free in case you cannot read a koran. Try
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090830185320AAtaIxt

also, try http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/muhammad_salvation.html

That is just to start with. You can do your research. What makes a believer not corrupt as an unbeliever is that the blood of Jesus has washed him and made him a new man. Its like formatting a corrupt file, or using an antivirus.

mazaje: Ohh, from atheist don't do good to all humans don't do good what exactly are you on about?. . .Atheist are corrupt, care to show us how christians are less corrupt than atheist. . .




You claimed that animals know that there is a creator and you want me to prove your point for you. . .I never made any claim about animals. . .
Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript .

Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?

Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.

Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you'd say you don't know?

Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.

Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits.

Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?

Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.

Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you'd say you don't know?

Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.

https://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bill-gates.jpg

For Buffet here is a quote from. . .from Buffett: The Making of an American Capitalist

“He did not subscribe to his family’s religion. Even at a young age he was too mathematical, too logical, to make the leap of faith. He adopted his father’s ethical underpinnings, but not his belief in an unseen divinity.” . . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

Oh, you've never heard of ALL have sinned? The fool has said there is no God. Atheists are a subset of unbelievers, understand? The above quotes are in no way saying that Warren or Bill don't beleieve in the existence of God. It simply shows that they are not the religious types or ardent church goers.

mazaje: allah of the koran is not your god of the bible, he also saved mohammed, so what the hell are you talking about?. . .Your god is just a god idea among other god ideas, end of story. . .

What?? Tell me something new this year. allah saved Mo? Indeed, what the hell are you talking about?

mazaje: The person that wrote this passage is a fool, any body that believes it is also a fool. . .No atheist does good?. ..All atheist do abominable work?. . .Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are two atheist billioniares btw them they employ close to a million people. . .They own some of the largest charity organizations in the world that are helping in eradicating polio and reversing blindness by giving back sight to the bling to corrective surgery, many blind people have been able to see through their charitable work, many have averted polio because of their work. . .So you see I have just shown you how your bible and that verse is a piece of garbage that only fools will believe in. . .



provide an animal that told you he/she knows that there is a creator. . .By the way the creator of the world is shiva the hindu goddess. . .

hehehe, i dey vex this guy badly. And to think that he was actually accusing believers as the angry ones in the initial. Anyway, na their way be that.
BTW, the Bible does not say that atheists don't do good, it says they are not good.(all humans actually). Its like having some good food in the garbage bin, those waste management trucks, those septic tanks, yummyyy. They are corrupt, go figure.
Show me two things and i will do as you requested. Show me an animal that told you there is no Creator, then show me proof that Warren and Bill are atheists. Thank you.

OlaoChi: Why do Christians like playing this card when someone disagrees with them
This devil is infact holy and honest compared to the Bible God

What card do you speak of, my sista?

rudedough: How much do Christians have to lie even in the face of realistic proof? SMH for these followers of Christ, same way they lie about the bible.

Sir did you quote the passage or not? Just watch, he will give an apologetic excuse now.

Are you blind? You quoted the passage, i quoted YOU. You're being very childish, i just saw your post about me running away on some other thread. This is a social forum, not 2go or any other instant messenger. You need to start behaving your age at the least. Atheism is not an excuse for immaturity.
So, when you tell me that you're settled on the colt passage, we'll proceed to another, okay?

OlaoChi: This doesn't qualify anybody who has converted away from christianity especially through reading the Bible

Exactly, it does not qualify him. That is why he needs to listen to us. (you make me scratch my head BTW)

mazaje: There are many gods out of which the foolish jews claim theirs is the greatest or the only true god. . .Mohammed said there is no god but allah. . .It would be stunning if you also understand this line. . .

Talk is cheap, you know? My Jehovah God also bears Allah, you know? My Allah saved me, Mo's allah we can't say. Ever heard of counterfeiting?

mazaje: She created the universe and all that is in it. . .So why aren't you worshipping her?. . .

Again, you don't believe that, do you? Is there hope that you'll ever figure?

[quote author=frank3.16]@image,

I believe in bhudist God, hope i am nt a fool.[/quote]Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Kindly understand that i have no personal grouse with you or any of you. i'm not referring to anyone as a fool because of his IQ or educational status or logical intelligence or its lack. The qualifier is simply a result of the folly f not acknoowledging the existence of a Creator. Even the animals know that there is God. Your friend, mazaje meanwhile lost all decorum when he was shwn his folly. Thank God, he's more stable now, i was about to pray for him.

mazaje: Another contradiction in the bible , eh?. . .

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

From there is no god but me to i am the god of gods or the best of the gods. . .

No contradiction. There is one God and many gods. Beside God, there is no other God. Would be stunning if you understand this line.

mazaje: But shiva is god?. . .Go figure. . .

i never contested that shiva is god, would you ever figure?

Oga Jo, they said one drone crashed at IB, small small oh. lol, just kidding, underneath you are the everlasting arms.

mazaje: You don't believe what the bible says any more?. . .I thought in the bible it says there is no other god but yahweh?. . .Who ever wrote that is a fool and what ever concept of god that was attributed to the god remains a fool and who ever believes in any god he can not provide objective evidence for remains a fool, who ever also believe what the bible says about those that do not believe in god also remains a fool. . .

i think you need an update. Read and stop establishing your ignorance on this thread any further, i plead.

1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
Deu 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

mazaje: You know the Hindu goddess shiva?. . .She is the creator of everything you see go and read the verders. . . Jehovah is just a jewish and false god, there is no god except shiva because it is written in the verders. . .

Do you believe this shiva? i believe God, go figure.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Christ Jesus did not come to close the door of tithes, whatever that means. He came to make us one, to break down the wall of partition. To remove the hindrance. The covenant was the hindrance. The new covenant is based on faith in the blood.
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Just as faith and God's law existed in the past, even before the Old Covenant, so also today, faith and God's law still exist. What the Bible says is new is grace, God helping man.
Again, the law of commandments contained in ordinances is not tithes. the law of commandments contained in ordinances is the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was built on the Levitical priesthood and system, ratified by their sacrifices. The New Covenant is build on the Melchisedek priesthood of Christ, ratified by Christ's sacrifice. Christ came to abolish the old agreement, not to abolish the Word of God. As for the word of God, Christ said it will not pass away. The weightier matters of the law, mercy, faith and judgement are still here, and we will do well to obey them. The most important law of loving God is still here. And not one tittle or the least of God's Word is irrelevant or abolished.
Tithing REMAINS INCONTROVERTIBLY a practice before the Old Covenant. It is not subject to, neither is in a subset or offshoot of the Old covenant. People tithed centuries before the Old covenant. It is wrong to limit the practise to just the Old covenant. This has always being our view and stance. It becomes unfair when you continue to subtly infer that we are averse to the law. Our very first point state that we consider God's law as divine, as light as truth, and ALL PARTS worthy of emulation. We have not said that we should only emulate before the law. All Scripture remain, given by inspiration of God and PROFITABLE for instruction in righteousness.

When the question is asked how could the early Christians have paid tithe? Very simple. How could early christians have being zealous of the law?
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Any observant student of the Acts of the apostles would see that many of the early christians went to the temple, including Paul. They also met frequently at synagogues.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act 5:20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.
Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Act 24:18 Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.

Early christians knew their way to the temple including Peter, Paul and John. And the temple remained till most of them had died. The writer of the hebrews acknowledges the fact that tithes were being given in the temple.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

It appears to be a common practice and unrebuked practice in those days. The real question is, Is giving tithes a good thing? Is tithing a good work or a bad work?
It has been shown from the Bible that tithes was given of all things, and God did not reject it. ALL Scripture is profitable for us. we would do well not to be tied to some certain segments alone. Abraham and Jacob's examples show us clearly that one can give tithes of all God gives, not only on pawpaws and mangoes. We believe this discuss is focused on tithing, not on alms giving. Neither Rhymeyjohn nor Image123 is opposed to almsgiving or to any form of giving that s found in scriptures. What we are discussing is tithes and why we do it. We also give to every man as they have need and as God gives grace. i hope we stay on point. The Word of God NO WHERE reveals that tithing was abolished, nailed to the cross. We patiently await any real proof against this statement and not just inferences. Inferences are very subject to private interpretation. Let us know this first.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.

Let us not infer that apostle Paul and co cherry picked the law, and told us that the law is abolished, only to tell us severally to obey the parts they like, including the weighty parts like faith, mercy, love and judgment. Jesus Christ is not just to be admired, He is to be followed. He said "IT BECOMETH US TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS". Let us walk by faith, and not by sight.


END

RESPONSE TO REBUTTAL R5

We expect and do hope that our discussion would be progressive and that we are learning from one another in these discusses. i believe that the aim of the discussion is to clear the air and straighten views on why we all do what we do. When we keep going to the back, like we've not being clear or touched on certain things, it shows that we are either not paying attention, or we are not learning. Now to the response, we find it contradictory and incongruent with scriptures for our fellows to say that Christ did not tithe, and yet insist that tithe is of the law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Scriptures clearly teach that Jesus Christ did not break any of God's commands but was sinless. If indeed sin is the transgression of the law(1John3v4), we make bold to say that Jesus NEVER transgressed the law.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

You cannot say that tithe is of the law, and the same time truly insist or insinuate that Christ did not do it or encourage it. Do we really assume that this same Jesus, who told folks to go show themselves to the priests would in any way discourage anyone from tithing? Jesus is our example and He is who we follow. He NEVER discouraged anyone from giving the tithe.
Now, when you say NOT ALL PRACTICES IN THE BIBLE AUTOMATICALLY APPLY TO CHRISTIANS, that's a statement uncalled for. Nobody disputed this or was against this. Its like if i said and make bold that SATAN IS NOT THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST. You ought to be wondering why i would say that in this discussion. That would be an attempt to make/mislead the casual reader think that the other party was saying that satan is Jesus' father. What we have plainly stated and explained from our first point has been 2Timothy 3v16, that ALL Scripture is divinely inspired and profitable. that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong in people following scriptural examples and learning godliness from the Bible characters and passages.
BTW, you've got to be omniscient to be telling us what we DO NOT DO. In this same thread, we have clearly stated that there is NOTHING wrong with observing feasts. In fact, i recall quoting a scripture where Paul was telling gentile believers about observing a feast.
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

There is nothing wrong with observing the sabbath, i do. And Jesus remains the lord of the Sabbath. When our friends say "If they don't do all these, then their obedience is incomplete and their righteousness is unfulfilled." its either you have not been listening or reading what we have being saying, or you have forgotten so soon, letting it slip. i would like to ask if your own obedience is complete? Candour and Mark, is your obedience complete?
i'm not sure, i've not seen anybody whose obedience is complete. Perhaps, we are about to see one in Candour and co though. We are made righteous, justified, saved in Christ, after which we are called to good works. It IS NOT our good works that make us righteous. This does not stop us or deter us from doing good works as much as God gives us the grace. We have said it, and we say it again. If God givs you the grace to do more, please do more. Give more, give all the types of tithe known to you, observe all the feasts you can and obey all the Word you can. No problem AT ALL. The ONLY thing is that you do not do it unlawfully, that is as a means to obtain forgiveness or justification or salvation. But to come and discourage folks from obeying any one of God's Words. Jesus said this is so wrong. If He is Lord, we ought to walk even as He walked.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

All the Word of God is right to us. We are in no way claiming to have attained, even apostle Paul did not. None theless, we are asking God for more grace, and we ask that you do not come in to dissuade us.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

Talking about pick and choose, it ought to be evident to our brothers that they are the ones doing the cherrypicking in the law. It is either the law is abolished or it is not. IF you insist that the law is abolished, then you cannot pick on just tithes and some few that you do not like, then hold on to other parts of the law like love, mercy and faith for instance. Jesus Christ said that mercy, faith and justice are part of the law, weightier and important parts of the law for that matter. Jesus said the two greatest commands/ordinances in the law are loving God and loving neighbour.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Now, out of the whole law, these above take the greater percentage and sector in God's pie chart. Can we reasonably say that these are the enmity? Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances. Why do we refuse to rightly divide the Word of truth. Oh, i forgot, you don't think it is the Word of Truth, it is the enmity. No, it is not the enmity. The Word of God is not the enmity. Thou shall not kill, thou shall not be a witch, thou shall tithe, thou shall honour your parents, thou shall circumcise. These are not the enmity. The enmity is the covenant made, the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant/agreement did not pay or favour man. It condemned us, no man could keep it except Jesus. Are we saying all men had to kill, or had to steal when we say no man could keep it? No, those were not the covenant. Those are God's laws. The Covenant/Agreement was IF you obey ALL my Words/Laws, THEN you will be saved/justified/accepted. This was the agreement that men made with God on Sinai. This was the Law. This was what was and is against man, because man cannot meet God's standards till tomorrow. This is why Christ came. In the OT, there was faith but the covenant was not based on faith. We have many heroes of faith under the law, but their covenant was not faith based. The New Covenant is based on faith in Jesus, in His blood/cross, to be saved/justified/accepted.

Alfa Seltzer: But not of Mars. hehe.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

peterphd: You say atheists doubt the existence of a creator and you say this creator is the Jewish god.how do you know he created the world and not olodumare?

Who is this Jewish god? If you're referring to Jehovah, He is the Lord and Creator of all. BTW, have atheists stopped doubting the existence of a creator or wetin be "you say". i don't know who is olodumare. i would not be surprised though if it is yet another of Jehovah's names. In that case, He created all things.

rudedough: Are you telling me that you didn't realize you quoted the below passage? Man if you cannot explain the passage, like i earlier said shut the fvck up and sit your ranting a$$ somewhere.

i understand that the devil is a liar and that he is your master. But you would e lying so shamelessly nd blatantly if you cannot show where i quoted that passage. You quoted that passage, not me. If you want help on the passage, you're going to have to state that you've now understood the colt passage better and would not repeat your thoughtless mistake. Its one step at a time, i have all eternity, you don't.

OlaoChi: Ok keep deceiving yourself with this excuse, it's so pathetic

Quit deceiving yourself and read this truth below

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

rudedough: Shut up Bro and explain the passage. You like beating around the bush like you've been doing on the topic of tithing.

Just explain the passage you quoted or shut the hell up. We don't have time or server space to play around a topic as sensitive as that.

What passage did i quote? It seems an evil spirit is disturbing you ba?

peterphd: Same way olodumare is universal.he created the world.just ask macof

Well i don't argue against that, what's your point as it relates to the OP?

OlaoChi: It's above silly to say someone can't understand something because he doesn't believe it
That's like saying You can't understand Star Wars because you don't believe it

Btw the dude was a believer, so stop accusing him of not believing

i said one needs to be CONVERTED to better understand. You cannot compare a dog's understanding of human language to a human's understanding. The dog will need to be converted to a human being to really flow. That's what the Bible itself says. The natural man does not readily understand. That's why you need a conversion, or to at least listen to those who are converted.