₦airaland Forum

Candour: I agree with you too though i'll clarify it DOES NOT have to be a formal registered body .A church is any group of believers So why can't i just give the tithe to a group of needy families with whom i fellowship since we agree they are the church? why can't i give it to you a brother in Christ who is in need if indeed you are the church?

Because the tithe is not alms.I has a different practice and purpose to serve. i have never given m tithe to my pastor BTW.

thehomer: Why is thinking through a simple idea so difficult for you? To repeat myself, my point once more is to show you why it is useless for you to ask me to draw close to a God I don't believe in. You asked me to draw close to a God I don't believe in and I'm telling you that it is a useless idea because one cannot draw close to a God they don't believe in.

But i did, and so have many million others. i was not born a believer of God.
He that comes to God MUST believe that He is, that He exists, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. There is no short cut to the leap of faith, as it were.

Candour: i agree with you. So now i ask, who is the church?

N/B: pls remember this is based on the assumption that Christians are even asked to tithe

Oh okay, based n assumption, the church is the gathering or congregation of believers, crudely defined.

Uyi Iredia: Wilberforce was an evangelical Anglican.

i'm aware, not sure if judas2013 is.

Candour:

exactly my bro.we don't need to go to heaven to give to God, so whom should i give them to? particularly the tithe mentioned in Heb 7 since it's Jesus Christ that now collects the tithe as i'm expected to believe

i suggest the church which is the body of Christ. Who do you suggest?

Judas2013: Atheists like William Wilberforce free the slaves not christianity. The Pope owned slaves too.

William Wilberforce an aheist? i feel your loneliness. You can feel free to add me to the wish list.

Candour: @Image123, praises and worship are intangible things and MUST NOT be compared to Tithes and Offerings.

Abi you want to tell me you give God's praises and worship to your pastor to deliver on your behalf just like your tithe?

If i give my praises, prayers and worship to God directly, why do i need my pastor to help me deliver the tithes to him?

hehehehe, bro i mentioned offerings and sacrifices and our lives too na. mentioned them all to wholly show tht we don't have to go to Heaven before we gve to God, tangible or intangible. When we give, or do anything, it is as unto God.

@OP
Because i do.



Everybody has their different reasns to love, some don't even need a reason. Everyhing des nt boil dwn to reason. Why do we die?

Candour: From your post i can deduce that we are no longer under Mosaic tithe since the Abraham's tithe to Melchisedek you referenced. TOTALLY DIFFERS from Mosaic LAW OF TITHING.

Since Melchizedek is a picture of Christ and Christ has finally come to set his High Priesthood in motion, the question then becomes how do i get these tithes to Christ? Melchizedek received Abraham's tithe by himself so how does Christ receive the tithes today? This is on the assumption that i agree with you that Heb 7 doesn't obliterate the tithe idea but rather it advocates it.

If Christ receives tithes today, wont you agree with me that it's better to do it with Matt 25:35-40 in mind with special attention to verse 40.

Matt 25:40
'Ant the king shall answer and say unto them, Verily i say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me'

Finally it's not those against tithing that are covetous and greedy but the greedy ones are those who tithe only because they've been promised returns on the investment and also those who threaten children of God with curses, failure, sickness for not remitting tithe while they know fully well that the bible says the following

Rom 8:32
'He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things'

God gave me salvation freely, why do i need to pay him to get my physical needs met? that's the question Paul asked in the verse above.

Cheers bro

Errrmmmm, hw do we give our praise to God? How do we give our offerings and sacrifices to Him? How do we give our very lives to Him? Who are His brethren?

i thought Sapphira was under this dispensation, Candour? It remains unto you accrding to yr faith. If a man believes he will be more blessed when he des something God does not frown at, i suggest that we do not discourage him.

Pastor Kun: Maybe you are under a curse for keeping parts of the obsolete Mosaic laws [Galatians 3:10/ 5:4] you shouldn't have started tithing in the first instance. . There are millions of brethen out there that would never pay tithes. Yet they remain blessed by God.

God does not deal with everybody the exact same way. What you might do as an hobby and get away with, a Saphira might do once and kick the bucket. Leave him alone with his Maker.

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

Paul says the truth IN Christ. It is not enough to say the truth, but we should learn to say the truth in Christ. Saying the truth in Christ is the real form of truth as christ Himself is the Truth personified. Something might be true about your neighbour, your friend, your spouse, an organisation or government, but believers should learn to remain IN Christ if they must say that truth. Because some truths are meaningless, some do not need to be said at some points and instance, some would be better left unsaid and forgotten. But at all times, we must say the truth and let the devil be ashamed. Lying remains a sin till date. As we say the truth, we should also let our conscience bear witness to it. Paul said the truth IN Christ. his conscience also bore witness IN the Holy Ghost. Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are two persons though God. We as believers are in Christ, in the Holy Ghost and in God, that is the Father. The same way, Christ is in us(Christ in you the hope of glory), the Holy Ghost is also in us, and God is in us. It is not a contradiction though it appears paradoxical. These seemingly paradox life is the life of the believer. The believer is not an extremist, but his moderation is known to all men. Our life is balanced on two legs and two ears, as it were. That makes it important that we study scriptures wholly and not just be driven by one aspect. One aspect makes one inbalanced and you can stray off the narrow path before us. There is Christ in us, and there is we(us) in Christ. There is God's part and Our part, there is abounding and there is want, there is grace and there is truth, there is godly sorrow and joy, there is sobriety and being besides one's self, cast down but not destroyed. As we continue in this chapter, we will do well to remember this simple but important fact, that all scripture is truth, and that we cannot cast away all other scripture and base understanding and truth on just one passage like the current passage for instance.

Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

The writer had great heaviness and continually sorrow. Yet he had in him the joy fruit of the Spirit and joy unspeakable and full of glory. He could tell to rejoice in the Lord always. This is the mystery and beauty of the christian life.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

The cause of his heaviness and sorrow was not imprisonment, sickness or affliction. He was not sad and thinking of backsliding, neither was he in depression because he lost something or God did not answer his prayer. What brought sadness to him was the spiritual condition of others. He had his wishes but he also knew the mind and plan of God which should supersede our wishes.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

The writer's brethren were the physical Israelites. There is the physical Israelites, and there is the other or spiritual Isaerlites, as we see that the writer says in verse 6 that they are not all Israel. So, we have "Who are Israelites" in verse 4 and then "they are not all Israel" in verse 6. Is it a contradiction, no. We need to study to understand the balance. This one is very close, some other seeming contradictions are books apart. And then some people would build skyscrapper walls to lean on on one right leg. The other sect would build another skyscrapping fence on the other left leg, and they may even call themselves denominations. And they will both get Bible verses to validly support their stance.
The physical Israel are children of God. they are even the original children of God as it were. The are the chosen, thy have God's glory to show forth, the covenants(both new and old) were given to them. There was no gentile present when Jesus was declaring about His new testament. The law was given to them. Every promise we can think of was given to them originally, all the fathers and heroes of faith(at the time of writing) are from their nation, Jesus Christ came through their lineage. They are the classic example of having everything going for them. But they themselves did not go! If anyone should have an edge or be predestined to go anywhere, they were. They were God's people and still are the apple of God's eye. But they did not get what God planned for them. They are a glaring example that it is possible not to get what God has planned for us(whether positive or negative). It is a relief to note though that even though the majority did not take advantage, Paul took advantage. So also did Peter, the 120, and more than 8000 other Israelites who got saved after pentecost. Some others must have stood in self pity and meditated on scriptures that say God has blinded Israel. But the 'smart' ones saw that the kingdomof God suffereth violence and the violent takes it by force.

thehomer: This is the sort of pointless response that I prefer to avoid. Do you believe in Brahma or not? Please answer with a yes or no before you go on to ask me to believe in your own God that I currently don't believe in. For some reason, you don't understand what I've said so far. You asked me to draw near to a God I don't believe in. Can you draw close to a God you don't believe in?

Do you know Brahma or are you personally close to anyone that knows Brahma? Why would you want meto believe in Brahma. i do not even remember eve hearing that name five times in my entire life. i believ in God and i am satisfied with Him You have heard about God all your life and we both know His conditions. What are Brahma's conditions and what does brahma have to offer us. Are you a believer of brahma?

1Timothy 6
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

thehomer: I take it that this means you don't believe in Brahma. So, can you draw close to Brahma since you don't believe in him? Asking me to draw close to this God of yours that I don't believe in is like asking you to draw close to Brahma that you don't believe in.

Didn't say that i do not believe in Brahma. i've drawn close to God and i am satisfied with Him. D you know Brahma or are you personally close to anyone that knows Brahma?

debosky: God bless you Image as you continue to share from that you have received and learned.

TBH, I still struggle with the pre-destination aspect. Not that I believe that we don't have a role to play i.e. accepting God's salvation by faith is necessary regardless of what is pre-destined, but that it does seem to involve more than that.

For example, Jesus says in his prayer in John: I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world.

Also in John 6:44 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Does it imply that only those who are drawn by the Father can come to accept salvation, i.e. not everybody is drawn?

But then later on Jesus did say: Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. Which implies that the decisive aspect is he who believes, not being drawn alone per se - and that clearly signifies our part to play.

Also, Romans 9 seems to imply certain things are decided without our input as the case of Esau and Jacob:

8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”[c]

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

This also appears to indicate that some will have mercy, while others won't. Further in the same passage, Paul says this:

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

18 So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.

19 Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?”

20 No, don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? 22 In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, [i]who are destined for destruction. 23 He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory. 24 And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.[/i] (NLT)

Verse 18 makes it clear that there is a division - some are hardened and some receive mercy. That to me is an indication of predestination, but is that 'ultimate' predestination or just momentary regarding a specific instance/situation? I do not know.

However, the latter verses say to the Christian: who are you to question this? My take from the following verses is thus: those who are reading this are already saved, so the question is immaterial - in your own case you have been called AND you've accepted, leave the called/not called status of those that are left to God. But it does state some are destined for destruction, and that others were prepared in advance for glory.

Subsequent chapters go on to hit the nail on the head for me: go out and teach and preach. Don't dwell on who is predestined or not, just preach! Regardless of whether they have been called or not, you will have done your part.

I am still uncertain on the whole subject, but I ultimately consider it a secondary issue for a Christian.

Our role is to teach and let people hear the message. It is God's role to show mercy on whom he chooses to show mercy on and to draw men to Jesus, and it is the individual's to accept or reject.

i hope to post the points on romans9 soon. Hopefully, it should settle this, thanks.

thehomer: And by God, do you mean Brahma?

i meant God, the One i've been discussing with you since you saw my username.

thehomer: Lord of the Rings. Vol. 1 Fellowship of the Rings Chapter 10:
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,



How can I draw near to a God that I don't believe in? Can you draw near to Brahma? The Brahmin cannot breathe on your behalf either so have you been able to believe in him?

i do not need to draw near to any other, God satisfied me.

Where's sdemi? Being awhile sincei read him.

thehomer: Since I don't believe in this God but you do, I'd rather find out from you. So, are you willing to share this knowledge of God that you have with me?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. i cannot breathe on your behalf no matter how much i love you.

kunle i dey suspect you.

debosky: @ Joeagbaje

I am a bit concerned at your stance - Jesus was maltreated by the Roman soldiers thousands of years ago. Is that account of wrongdoing hidden from view? Paul was whipped for doing nothing wrong - did he conceal it?

Peter exhibited hypocrisy in the church - was it concealed or shown about to other believers? Do we not learn about that very account today? Can unbelievers not read the same account today?

When Alexander hurt Paul greatly, did he not write to tell Timothy about it - warning him to avoid the man and even saying the Lord will repay him for what he has done? Did Paul conceal it?

So please tell me - where did you get this your own idea of concealing (alleged) wrongdoing simply because it happened in the church?

We should be concerned at the stance of the OP and his cohorts. They have made it a case against Oyedepo. Oyedepo was not even there at the time of the OP's incidence. He says it happened in Abuja nine years ago, between him and a church traffic worker or is it 12 people. How did this progress to a case between the accuser and Oyedepo? And then talking about cases to answer in UK or whatever. Is this arithmetic progression or geometric progression? How is it that two church bishops, some four other church elders have begged this guy with scriptures, offered him cold water and juice, fixed his tyres and whatever, and yet he is today looking for official apology? i find it very very difficult to believe that such a person is a christian. He might be oh, if he says he is, well i cannot say he is not. But assuming that he is a christian and a church member for 5 years, if he has a grudge or quarrel with a fellow church member, the Bible is clear about what he ought to do. Others have stated what he ought to do, even his elders told him what to do according to the OP.
Jesus was maltreated by the Roman soldiers. This is not a case of church member versus church member, or christian versus church. Its not exactly the same context, neither did Jesus personally go about publishing how he was maltreated. He did not go to any police station to report them, neither did he do wrong like the accuser. Infact, the same day, he openly prayed for their forgiveness. Most of the persecution of the church were not written by the persecuted themselves, and this is not a case of persecution. Anyone that has been to these 'big' gatherings know that most of them employ para-military and military to control traffic. Some of these are not necessarily church members but may be headed by a church member. Most of them have guard rooms because anybody can come to the gathering with ulterior motive. Recalcitrant people and juvenile delinquents end up in these places for some duration. A person who has been attending a place for five years should have noticed these kind of things, and know how to behave himself or herself. Some of these gatherings use public transport officers, lagbus, frsc, lastma, lawma etc to help with some things. Not all church employees are church members. So if one random person out of millions act in a particular way, we should not force our way to tie it to the GO's head or the Bishop's head. And then we start raining insult on his person and how he is a thief and must be punished and bla bla.
The accuser said "d state govt should come against them with d full might of d law, no institution is above d laws of this land and this kind of impunity disguising as "anointing" must stop." Do you really think that this is the way Paul felt about his persecutors? Church tradition tells us about the persecution of the apostles and their matrydom. It was not the apostles themselves that were keeping the issue for nine years, looking for vengeance. When Peter was at fault in Galatia, and Paul was writing about it, it was a believers to believers thing. i verily doubt that Paul thought that the whole world would get to read that. And bible students know the lesson to learn from the account. Peter himself was immediately corrected and so too were the Galatians. What exhortation have we gotten from the OP? Who has read the Op and said praise the Lord, or thank God? Is the OP's motive Paul's motive?
Can you tell us Alexander's offence to Paul? Paul wrote to Timothy as a son, and for Tim's safety. He did not gather scribes to tell the detailed account of what Alexander did to him. He did not appeal to Caesar or go to any centurion or court. It was all a church matter. Not concealed, but settled in house. that is exactly what Jo and co are telling the OP.

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
1Co 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
1Co 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

debosky: Let's be real here - if (and I repeat if) someone purported to be a church worker can call in the police, accusing a fellow church member of being an armed robber (knowing what the police do to armed robbers) over a parking issue, is apologising the solution? What would prevent this church worker from doing worse in subsequent situations?

What do you suggest as the solution? Do you have any words for the OP and his friend? Do you see anything wrong with them calling fellow forum members names like less than human, rodents and nitwits? i believe in correcting the one that we can approach, that is here, than the ones that are not here. If kunle and co want to correct others, they should be ready to be corrected too. Obviously so far, kunle is posing as incorrigible. he has no locus standi to correct others. Perhaps, the person(s) that carried out these purported acts have moved on, probably are presently pleasing God in one role or the other, we do not know. Its nine years ago. But what we know is that the OP and his friend have clearly disobeyed Jesus in this two scriptures at least.
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

debosky: How do you know the story was exaggerated? Was the account of the traffic officials calling the police to arrest him as an alleged armed robber exaggerated or was it the account of how many slaps and kicks he obtained?

I'm just wondering how you can make such a definitive statement regarding this issue - do you have any information that contradicts the claims made?

Debo, let's forget sentiments here and deal with the issue on ground. Note that i did not say that the account did not happen. Neither have i stated that it is right for church to harass anyone or treat anyone that way. My stance is that the OP is incomplete and exaggerated. It is incomplete as the accused is not here to defend itself.
Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbor cometh and searcheth him.
Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

It would be wrong for me to pass judgement or rebuke on the accused without first hearing from him. Now, the accused is not here, i'd rather not be a busy body in discussing his matter. That is why i initially made a one line remark about kunle and his divisive and seducing nature. But he kunle was asking if that is all i had to say to the matter. And since the accuser and his friend(the OP) are here, i had to at least point them to their own wrongs. If the accused comes and agrees to what he is accused of, he will also hear from us. For now, the report is incomplete.

exaggerate : 1. overstate something: to state that something is better, worse, larger, more common, or more important than is true or usual
2. make more noticeable: to make something appear more noticeable or prominent than is usual or desirable
It is to overstress, embellish, embroider, make a mountain out of a molehill, inflate, lay on, amplify
Below are some of the exaggerated claims from the OP;

-After attending Winners in Abuja for 5 years, my relationship with d Church ended on d day I was severely beaten
Obviously, his relationship did not end that day. He still went back there after etc.

-d overzealous church traffic guys would never tell u where to park
The operative word here being 'NEVER'. i find it hard to believe that the traffic guys will never tell you where to park. Do you believe that? This is enough to confirm that the OP was exaggerated, but i will give more logical instances.

-When I got in, I realized I had left my phone in d car so I went back out to get it, when I came out i discovered someone had willfully damaged my four tyres
They had damaged his four tyres in how many minutes, out of about 12 vehicles?

-he refused and he and his gang were threatening to be violent, i went to make an official report to d Police station nearest to d church.
i find this a very blank statement. threatening to be violent, what does that mean?

-The police man came with me to where d car was and immediately d Church guys asked d culprit to go into church to hide, the police said "oga we no tell u?" and when he could not find d culprit, he left back to his station
Got me scratching my head. The police came with him and IMMEDIATELY the culprit was told to hide, yet the police could not find the culprit. hmmm.

-

I was screaming and shouting so badly that d pastors on d pulpit inside had to send someone to find out what was going on.

Where did this shouting take place? In the church, outside near his car? The pastors on the pulpit(whatever that means) heard him? This story is so not complete.

-d police team leader called me aside and said I should not take this lightly
In the office upstairs or where? After a so called superior officer told him to leave?

Now as for the subject of having a 'forgiving spirit', I don't think having a forgiving spirit involves denying a wrong that has happened, or covering it up, or does it? As I understand it, the author shared his experience in the light of the news of assaults involving this same organisation. Doing so does not amount to being unforgiving does it?

If this latest incident is true (and if the OP's is also true) then clearly there is a wider issue that needs to be highlighted as keeping it 'in house' is not resolving the issue.

oh common debo. Nobody asked him to deny. He went on social media and published this. He did not have to, if he has forgiven the person(s) involved. For God's sake, he kept the shirt for the past nine years! Okay, it is this simple. Agyman agymsbaba, have you forgiven the accused? i hope he answers since he is here. Maybe you can ask him debo, it seems he is not interested in directly replying me so far.

debosky: Thou shalt not call thy brother's word useless.

You're getting more militant these days bro.

hehehehehe, na you talk say he kingdom don suffer violence na, i remain gentle sir, sorry for the harsh use of the word 'useless', would find another word asap

Pastor Kun: Sanctimonious hypocrite, I did not call Gombs a nitwit because he did not agree with me, I called him a nitwit because just like you he is a real nitwit. When he made false allegations against me that I made up the story, you were busy applauding him instead of you to point out to him that he should not be an accuser of the brethen. Now the Victim in the story himself has come out to reiterate the story with additional info including names to prove his story was true you are still yarning dust instead of you to ask your fellow nitwit to apologise to me for accusing me wrongly.

Unfortunately youre blind to see what the Bible said. Perhaps yu know more than Jesus and you'll give Him this your strong defence. Meanwhile, your OP remains incomplete and exaggerated like i've initially said. Bringing whoever is not the point, he came to corroborate an incomplete and exaggerated story, and to put himself and yourself in more mess before God. You will do well to point out where i accused you wrongly. i'm lso waiting for your proof as to what you said that Oyedepo said about Jonathan and Amosun. satan is a liar, hope you're not.

Pastor Kun: @gombs and other nitwits that accused me of falsifying the story

I had to call out my friend who was the victim of this assault, I am glad he is here to buttress his experience and establish the facts as they happened.

@ Ajags baba
Thanks for honouring my invitation

pastor, in case you do not know, a christian does not call others nitwits klike you just called gombs and others because they did not agree with you.
nit·wit \ˈnit-ˌwit\

noun : a scatterbrained or stupid person


Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


You would rather pull stops to clear yourself, but would readily call others unprintable names. We await your defence of your witness against Oyedepo. We need your proof too as to if he said those words that you affirmed that he said.
BTW, your OP remains incomplete and exaggerated.

dare2think: Never knew you have been appointed the over-seer of who should be a Christian!!

Sanctimonious goon.

i never knew that any one gave me any appointment. You must be assuming things. i said that i doubt that he is a christian. i do not declare that he is a christian or that he is not a christian. His unforgiveness makes me doubt that he is a christian, because Jesus said that if you do not forgive,neither will God forgive you. His bitterness and unforgiving spirit is clear as noon day. He has even declared that some people are undeseving of being called humans. If Oyedepo also says that, i will say the same thing, We have seen where he is going, he came to attack Oyedepo who was not even there when the said incidence happened. He has confessed to two church bushops begging him, even giving him appointmtnent. Church pastors begged him, gve him cold water and juice. He is more guilty than any of them, and so blinded that he does not even consider his own safety or that of others. He is willing to die or be injured for his grudge.

thehomer: Sure. If you in fact do have a clear knowledge of God and salvation and are able to demonstrate this knowledge along with how you came to obtain it.

God can give you a clearer knowledge of Himself, not me. God can save you not me. But you need to be willing, and to change your mindset.

Hemical: If you reverse "NAIRA", you will get "ARIAN". Arius was one of the first christians to go against the trinitarian doctrine. In 325 AD, during the Nicene council under constantine, he was booed out for his opposition of the trinity concept. The name "NAIRA" is a subtle way to bring that enlightenment back to light using the most populous country in Africa. It's a subtle way of telling people everything you believe is false using the strongest thing that has ever happened to christianity to show that there is a group of people who control what you believe even in your religions. Also, if you check the nairaland symbol, you will see it's a naira sign. If you remove the two slashes in the middle and separate †ђξ two parts of the letter N, you will get two pyramids if you put the two lines under both sides. Now, SEUN used the naira sign becuase he was carefully chosen to fulfil Illuminati's role. He created NAIRALAND, which means ARIAN-land, a place where more importance is given to atheism. That's why everything against religion goes to front page. Illuminati is conditioning us for greater enlightenment on a greater scale and bringing a new world order. SEUN's name when written backwards is "NUES", "NUS" is the plural of the 13th greek symbol, a significant sign in early masonism. And the E which is in seun's name looks like a rake to erase people's brainwashed mentality. Seun was a perfect candidate for this and was chosen. Nairaland is a forum to bring Nigerian youths under one umbrella to be monitored and those who qualify will be contacted to be part of †ђξ great scheme to bring about a new world order. Of course everything I just wrote is cock and bull and I composed it in my room on my phone just to mock the jobless person who instead of spending the naira is looking for masonic symbols. Rubbish! If you like, you can leave nairaland for what I thought up too. Lool. Let's hear word jor.

funniest post of the day.

bejeria101: you are funny pls stay home you arent doing God any favors,sometin happen 5yrs ago and you arent over it yet,if GOD was to count ur sins would you be alive,pple take tins for granted,o ya pele go to a church they wont beat you only to give you juice later.

It's even nine years according to the story, not five. Nine years of an unforgiving spirit and counting. He even kept the shirt to remind him incase he managed to forget.

agyman: (I see the fanatics are here trying to distort d story, so I re-affirm) everything written here is TRUE. I have written my real name and named names, I am afraid of no one but God)

Unlike many of you who hide your real identity, my name is Adebayo T. Ajagunna, I was d victim of the incidence described above. this man with the 12 points posted above is another BAD ADVERT FOR CHRISTIANITY. U can't claim to be a Christian when you come and LIE about an issue that you were not witness to, cast aspersion on the person just to protect the deceit of your church? You guys are the real agents of Satan. This is exactly what happened and it is as I have stated it and as it is reported on this blog. I named "Elder Gboje" as the man who came to intercede when the violence was going on he his still alive today, on that faithful Sunday Pastor Abraham who was the assistant Pastor and who preached the sermon that day was also a witness to what happened and the account as I stated it. A few weeks later I ran into the then Bishop Dayo Olutayo (a man I have utmost respect for) and Bishop David Abioye we were on the same plane from Lagos to Abuja and I told them the story, while I sat beside them through the flight. I was an official of the British High Commission in Abuja then and i took off very difficult time the next day to attend a 12 noon appointment Bishop Olutayo gave me for the next day to give him time to investigate what i told him (because he said no one reported it to him. When I got to his office I saw the same "Elder Gboje" who on seeing me walk into the Bishop's office said "Mr. Bayo sebi I have appealed to you?", Bishop Olutayo told me to forget the matter and open my heart to forgive those that wronged me. That was nine years ago, I never said it in public but everyone close to me knew. The first time I wrote this in public was when I watched the video of Oyedepo slapping the poor girl accused of being a witch. My anger was that it seemed this culture of arrogant violence pervaded the church and people need to be aware of it, I got as much spite and LIES as you are trying to do here then too, but the TRUTH will always remain the TRUTH. All the people I have mentioned here are alive today and if I have added to or removed from this issue as it happened and i have stated here on that fateful them let them call me out.

It is a BIG SHAME that you people insult the name of God, LYING to justify the folly of men and honoring mere men like Oyedepo as if they were God HimselfThe wrath of God is coming and it shall start from His own house. I just couldn't stop laughing reading your well constructed FABRICATIONS, for an incidence you were not even a witness to. Take my story to your elders and tell them to go and research this story, but you guys lack shame. God can never be where there is no truth.

ii don't think that we have learnt anything extra from this your post apart from maybe names. It goes to show the bile , bitterness and unforgiving heart and spirit that is in you, that one would throw caution to the wind and endanger himself by blindly mentioning his name to prove what? You logged in with this account after six years to post this. You are more dangerous than the people you accused, you better move on. i sincerely doubt that you are a christian BTW.