₦airaland Forum

plappville: mark 9:35 He sat down, called the twelve disciples over to him, and said, "Whoever wants to be first must take last place and be the servant of everyone else."

I hope this is clear enough ...

I knew it, I knew it. These pastors are servants, they shouldn't even sit. We are 'making progress'.

Neddivine
you must have a lot of faith, frosb fast and pray? what! That's tradition and of Babylon babies. frosb that can't say he is born again will fast and pray? Tell that to mazaje instead, well your faith might work hopefully.

Eko Ile: Do I need to visit anywhere to see the same roads in this thread that cost the people of Akwa N1.4 trillion and a phoney scam called e library?


Please shut up.

if you were sincere in knowing the truth, you'd care to. Its easier to remain an armchair critic.

plappville: After preaching today, My pastor sat down in the congregation crossing His legs, and some members sat crossing thiers while He was preaching..
I laughed and thought of this thread...These people had just disrespect God according to some comments here....

well, you should have learnt that its a contextual and cultural thing. I believe if your pastor visited a place where he knew his action will offend others, he wouldn't do it.

I need to imbibe this greeting culture, its so cool looking so far.

amazing grace. grace told.

braine: Ermmm... I wouldn't want to go into that as I wouldn't like to stir up contoversies.

hahahahahaha devil can be quite hilarious sha.

hahahaha this must go for a rhetoric question, I'd be highly favoured by God and other gods to see answers here.

dey wan bomb TB ma guy sha.

they don come again ohhhhhh. The pastor should not even sit sef, as a humble servant.

it's not news that even the OP is a scam christain.

woahhh this is an all time low. Asides the hypocrisies and established ignorance, I'm surprised to see christains telling me that Jesus is yet to conquer but will in the future. The general implications that He failed in His coming to earth is just endtimic.

seriously, eko ile needs to visit akwa ibom. Someone has even offered to sponsor the trip. Every state has maternity homes, schools, parks and technical colleges. its not exactly expected to be taking pictures of that to show transformation. All these things are in even small ekiti state, and they are in akwa ibom too but are the norm not major accomplishments. Most government schools in akwa ibom are big and well equipped. The thread says uncommon transformation, not all those gragra likes of agagu ondo state and Daniel ogun state can beat chest about.

brushparke: While you guys are still green with envy let me just make matters worse for you all.
Akwa Ibom will never sack over 700 doctors. For your information, Akwa Ibom state pays its doctors far more than even the Federal Government.
If you doubt, which i know you will (because you are brainwashed to), take a trip to any hospital in Akwa
Ibom and ask the first doctor you meet.

iyah

frosbel: Oh , btw, 119 comments later , and our eternal torment gurus have not answered ONE question out of the thirty raised .

These are the kind of Christians that when preaching , will tell their listeners not to challenge this doctrine for it is fact irrespective of how illogical it sounds.

Then they become worried when their message has no impact or has an impact that is short lived.

nonsense talk. If we wanted to answer each of your copy and paste questions, we would. But we know that you are not asking to learn, and are unwilling to be affected by the responses. you just want to please yourself. i often wonder why folks who don't believe in the Bible's teaching on hell are never truly satisfied or at peace. they are forever asking questions on the veracity of the teaching. i have peace in the truth of the word of God. you are still looking for that something, i hope you find it.

deebrain: Some people here are getting on my nerves. For Jerusalem's sake, "everlasting fire" from yr jude vs 7 as used against sodom, is fire that burns until the thing that it is burning is burnt out of existence-not where it burns and leaves effects. That portion of scripture says they (sodom) are burning with everlasting fire and are in eternal punishment, but sodom and gomorah dont exist again. They are forever gone as nobody has deem it fit to even build something in where those cities existed. The lake of fire will be the total end of everything evil. People wont live in the lake of fire! Satan himself will be DEAD in this fire. If satan knows he has just an opportunity at life either in heaven or hell, he wont be as desperate as we know him today.
Can we close this talk of hell fire now and focus on the gospel?

Perhaps they are actually burning. They are not forever gone, the people of Sodom will still stand to face judgement on the last day.
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Except you know more than Jesu on this issue, please keep quiet.

ijawkid: And didn't you read from the book of isaiah Jesus quoted from that the worms that don't die feed on dead bodies??....................frosbel quoted the excerpt from isaiah but you failed to pay attention........

Satan and his demons,wicked humans,grave and death would not be literally tormented endlessly........they would be extinguished/destroyed completely.......read your bible well and stop this running arounds...............

they will be tormented, so says the Bible. Read your Bible too.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

ijawkid: Alexleo my man .............the®e isn't aÑy dilusion my bro......this is what the bible reÀlly really teaches.................total destruction is what awaits the wicked...nothing more nothing less..........

i'm interested in the answer to that alexleo's question. Are you born again? i hope your tradition will permit you to answer this harmless, simple question.

frosbel: Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[/color]

Hell here translated to Gehenna, which was a rubbish dump outside the city. By inference, the wicked will be thrown into the 'rubbish dump ' aka lake of fire and destroyed.

The result is :

"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." - Isaiah 66:24

Note the word DEAD BODIES , because Jesus quoted directly from this scripture and knew what he meant.

Even if you wished anyone eternal torment, it will be more of fantasy than reality, because it is not gonna happen.

There will be punishment and destruction.

You are oscillating here. Is everything not literal in this Isaiah passage? Is the first part more literal than the second part? Will their fire never be quenched? Is that literal, because if the dead bodies are literal, don't you expect the unquenched fire to be literal? i'm trying to think in your wave here, don't go vacillating on us please. And Gehenna now has an aka? congratulations gehenna. When will hades get its own aka, and tataroo? Don't be partial oh. Gehenna is rubbish dump na. All sinner's souls are going to be thrown in the the rubbish dump outside Jerusalem abi? Or it doesn't apply here? You fail to realise that God describes thing s we do not know to us by things we know. If He calls the lake of fire/hell the real name, nobody will know what He's on about. but when He uses things they can refer to, they get the picture. try to get the picture too, instead of stubbornly saying it must be that very thing and all its characteristics, nothing more.

frosbel: HELL is Hades Pal, study , study and stop this myopic, biased and counterproductive methods of study, it suggests you are not rightly dividing th word of TRUTH.

Hades and DEATH , will be cast into the lake of FIRE and destroyed ,this is what PAUL meant when he uttered the following priceless statement.

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." - 1 Corinthians 15:54

The DEAD are not HELD in your BOGUS and UNSCRIPTURAL HELL , they are in the GRAVE , the DUST of the earth , sleeping and waiting for the resurrection, either to damnation ( lake of fire ) or glorification.

Besides DEATH in the BIBLE means DEATH as understood by all peoples, it is a cessation of existence, but according to your heretical position, the seoncd death means something else, a never ending death of billions of souls , who will be dying for all eternity, even death will never be swallowed up in victory because death itself and the grave will be continually burning for all eternity , and then to make matters worse, your false position and doctrine of demons, suggests that when God said in Revelation 21 that there will be no more death , pain or sorrow, he was in fact not serious, he was joking.

Mate, your doctrine on HELL is FALSE and from the father of LIES.

Hell is Hades? Tell that to the hundreds of scholars who have interpreted and translated different versions of the Bible for us. Your OP's 30 questions assumed that this "new revelation" was common knowledge to teachers of hell like myself and Jesus. Are you now double mouthing? The dead are not held in hell? Tell that to John the beloved and Jesus, not to me.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
(BBE) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and Hell gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man by his works.

(GW) The sea gave up its dead. Death and hell gave up their dead. People were judged based on what they had done.
(LITV) And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell gave up the dead in them. And they were each judged according to their works.

1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Act 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
Act 9:37 And it came to pass in those days, that s[b]he was sick, and died[/b]: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.

Is this death really understood by all peoples, or you are grossly exaggerating your position?

frosbel: You are obviously not able to understand the difference between a Parable and a realtime event.




Since you are a member of the KJV cult, you seem to translate HELL all the time to mean a literal HELL. Pal , take some time to perform real study to show yourself a workman who can rightly divide the word of truth.

5020 tartaróō – properly, send to Tartarus ("Tartaros" ). The NT uses 5020 (tartaróō) for the netherworld – the place of punishment fit only for demons. Later, Tartaros came to represent eternal punishment for wicked people.

The bible again and again states that the DEVIL , ( and by implication his demons ) are roaming the earth seeking who they may devour.

"Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour." - 1 Peter 5:8

Even the demons asked JESUS if he had come to torment them before their time, as they were quite aware that the time had not yet come. So if the time had not yet come for demons, you think it has come for human beings after death , smh.

"Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God." - Luke 4:34

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" - Matthew 8:29


It appears you know something these demons do not know , lol.





Well , the bible says there is an appointed time for their punishment , it obviously has not arrived as we still see people possessed with demons, demons and SATAN wrecking havoc in the institutionalized CHURCH aka Babylon the Great .

"With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird." - Revelation 18:2





I pray that you will be delivered from ignorance sooner rather than later.

You are turning this into a farce of some sort. What is the difference between a parable and a realtime event(whatever that means). And who mentioned anything about parables/ Are Bible parables not truth? Are they lesser truths? Mention some of Jesus' parables that are impossible? What is your point about parables? Did Abraham not have direct conversations with the rich man? you think Jesus was giving a favorite cinderella, aladdin and the forty thieves fable?

What is the KJV cult. You love to spew up all sort of nonsense to distract and detract. Who mentioned a thing about KJV? Lemme show you five translations and release a vista in your brain.
(BBE) For if God did not have pity for the angels who did evil, but sent them down into hell, to be kept in chains of eternal night till they were judged;
(CEV) God did not have pity on the angels that sinned. He had them tied up and thrown into the dark pits of hell until the time of judgment.
(DRB) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment:
(GNB) God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into hell, where they are kept chained in darkness, waiting for the Day of Judgment.
(Webster) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment;
You are free to add the KJV to that if it permits you to sleep at night.
If you like call it Tatarshe, the fact remains that some angels are being punished, contrary to your initial claims that devil and all angels are still roaming about free.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
You can't question the appointment and decisions of God, can you?

The fallen angels know that there is a place where they can be tormented before the final punishment. They knew very well the possibilities of Jesus sending them there, that's why they pleaded with him to enter pigs and into the lake.
Luk 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
Luk 8:32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]A man has a child who disobeys his simple command. The man decides to deal with the child for disobeying him. He flogs the living daylight out of the child, taunts him and makes the child kneel down under the sun. You pass by the house the first day and you notice the child suffering under the scorching sun; you say to yourself, "the child probably deserves it". You pass the second day and you still meet the child outside the house under punishment. The third day, the same thing is still happening. For one whole week, this child is still outside kneeling down, he has not eaten nor drank water nor has he slept. You pass by after the one week has passed and you still meet this child outside. What would you think about the father?
Is it possible for a father to treat his child in such a way?
No?
Then why would you think that the perfect Father would roast His creation for all eternity?[/quote]this is lame. The people in hell are not children of God. Use this analogy instead. A man has cancer in one of his leg. The leg is cut off for life and replaced so as not to contaminate or kill the whole body. Despite how useful the leg is or has been, how many races he has run with it, and how it helped him escape from many enemies.
Or look at good food like a loaf of bread, and the top part begins to grow mould. The owner can cut out the mouldy part and keep the good part or throw it all out completely instead of thinking, Oh i bought this bread with my precious money, i even trekked far to get it, i put butter and prepared tea for it, and i am hungry for it. No, the bread is already bad and only fit for the dustbin forever.
Or look at a file in your computer corrupted with a malicious virus like sin. Yep, no virus as dangerous. It is better to delete that file forever or even format, instead of feeling sentiments. Oh, after one week it is still deleted, oh this file is still not back, Is it possible for a father to treat his child in such a way? Stop all this sentiments and read the Bible.
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

TroGunn: Here I was thinking we were gonna have a scripture-delving exchange? And Frosbel my new god? Where that one from come?

So according to you what happens to death and hell in the lake of fire?

Keep in mind 1 Cor 15:26 - "The last enemy to be destroyed is death".
Also Rev 21:4 - "....There will be no more death..."

i've answered this already but lemme start from here. It seems you were not able to make contact with Jesus the chief teacher, too bad. Let's see how much time i have for you. What happens to death and hell in the lak of fire? We are not straightly told but it can be safely assumed that the lot of other hell inhabitants will befall them i.e satan, antichrist and co.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever
It may help to note that the beast and the false prophet have spent a thousand years in the lake of fire at the time of this verse chronologically. Speaking of the word 'destroy', many things are 'destroyed' in scriptures and exist after the destruction. Three examples are Jesus, the devil, and the works of the devil.
Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Luk 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Christ through death destroyed the devil. He bruised his head etc. Is the devil still in existence today? CHORUS ANSWER please.
(CEV) We are people of flesh and blood. That is why Jesus became one of us. He died to destroy the devil, who had power over death.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Did Jesus destroy the works of the devil? Yes. Are the works of the devil still existing? Your answer is as correct as mine. So destroying death doesn't mean that it will no longer exist. it simply means death will be defeated/ruined/caged. You also need to look at Rev 21v4 in the context of the new Heaven and new earth. In the present context of Heaven, God's throne, thee is no death there. But on our present earth there is death.

plappville: What makes you think that crossing of leg disqualifies one from having the fruit of the spirit?

it doesn't. Inability to obey simple instructions show a deficit. Same also is lack of awareness and self control.

Oahray: why harp on her needing it when you know we all need it? Why call me a judge when you just judged the op with the bolded statement?

So the op asking a question about something she doesnt understand means she lacks the fruit of the spirit?
Mehn... I am done talking to you and your likes.
The hypocrisy in some christians is sickening. Smh.

get well soon then mr.judge. You called me a self righteous pretender, a liar and a selfish person and even refused a chance for me to defend my statement. You hardly know the meaning of 'harp' and you're here implying that I'm an hypocrite. You can't take 1% but you feel good giving 50%. i adviced that the op seek to grow in those areas of the fruits of the spirit, you should mind your business instead of poking your posts into what you can't take.

Oahray: "the op needs..." and you don't? Another self righteous pretender. When was the last time you were selfless for others? You don't have to answer, you'd likely lie anyway.

The bible never said YOU HAVE TO lay your life for others. It simply says you should love others enough to lay your life for them. Its not the same thing.

Stop trying to paint a human tradition as something from God. Just say that is what the pastor or religious leader wants, and because he is a demi-god, he should be obeyed without any objection.
That is closer to the truth than these piles of unscriptural trash you guys are disguising as support.

and where did i say or imply that others or myself do not need the fruits of the spirit? If she displayed those fruits, we won't be having this thread from her. i gave out my food today if that counts for selflessness, so what of you mr.judge? Go and read 1John3:16 and cure your brazen ignorance.

KnowAll: I agree with 'Abagaro's' argument, you see the 2.7 billion Naira statustory income given to Akaw Ibom can be use to for Infrastrutural development without a penny of that money stolen. But 1/2 of the 11.2 BILLION they get from derivatives might all be going to his pocket. Whilst the other Governor's of non-oil producing state would have to manage their mearge amount by stealing some, showing some development strides, and paying wages the south-south Governor's have a monopoly of un-precedented and unchequered stealing.

IS it any wonder that Odili is the man behind 'Arik' or the rumour that Rotimi Amechi has 2 refineries in Ghana, or better still Sylivia's confistiated houses hitting the headlines recently. Akapbio give or take is one of the richest Nigerians, if all funds accrued to the state are spent judiciously and with a population of 3 million people, that place would be Eldorado. You will think 'Eldorado' does not exist, but give those funds to a sefless man and see eldorado emerge from the swamps of the Niger Delta.

the big point is that he is working, and doing what others don't do. gej has alot of money too, what is he doing with it? what are the other states doing with their monies. What are other governors, senators and presidents doing? It's easy to assume what they are not doing, a visit to akwa ibom any part, shows what they are doing.

plappville: This is a Nigeria tradition, not from the scripture.

its not limited to just Nigeria. i think JeSoul mentioned how a white man talked against it while she was in France or so. Anyway even if it's a Nigerian or African thing, nothing spoil. Each people have their etiquette and culture, Paul talked of being all things to all men. I strongly say it was cases like this that he alluded to. I'm not talking of compromise to sin, its not an issue of sin but of what's right or appropriate. The Yoruba have their traditional way of greeting elders and rulers. The same goes for other tribes. They have cultures and traditions in marriage, wedding, burial etc that are harmless and not ungodly.

plappville: Tell us how is it a way of a Christian not to cross leg? Ur argument should be base on the Scripture! Is it wrong to displease oneself to please others?

you ought to lay down your life for your brethren, that's Scripture. So it is scriptural to displease yourself to please your church members, who are indeed your brethren. also, like I stated, the op needs love, meekness and temperance, all basic fruits of been born of the Spirit.

Goshen360: With or without any 'logical' or scriptural reason(s)?

frosbel: [/quote][quote author=Goshen360]With or without any 'logical' or scriptural reason(s)?

reality is not always logical or subject to logic. frosb and co, how does not crossing the legs oppose God or His Word?

Goshen360: This topic can only be argued 'scripturally' or 'logically'.

Scripturally, we do not have anything against someone siting and crossing legs while in worship place. If a man does it, it might not be an issue but because it's a woman, now it's an issue. This is nothing but tradition - that is, if it can be done in one part of the world but cannot be done in another part of the world. That is not the gospel - whatever you can't preach anytime, anywhere is not for the universal church. Jesus and the Apostles warned against traditions of men.

New International Version (©1984)
You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." - Mark 7:8

New International Version (©1984)
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. - Colossians 2:8

New International Version (©1984)
I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. - Galatians 1:14


Logically, what is the explanation that crossing legs in worship place(s) is wrong?

1. Is it that it offends another person? If it offends another person, how?
2. Is it that the lady who crosses her legs closes up properly or opens up carelessly? which one?

If we are going to explain why it is wrong to cross legs in worship places logically, then we must explain or give the reason(s).

who made you the judge/arbiter to limit parameters? how about contextually for instance? you're the one forcing the issue to be a gender issue, and dragging it as a matter of eternal life. There is nothing wrong with tradition except it opposes the Word of God, or if it is exalted above God. you've only punctuated your ideas with Bible passages and attempted to force it to say what it doesn't.

frosbel: Before you were born, I was a member of the apostolic faith, don't even get me started.

From my experience, people who belong to denominations are subconsciously fearful of challenging any doctrine that they do not quite understand , so they stick with the pack , for fear of disfellowshipping by the church authority.

story story ancient on daze. So much for all your experience, yet you learnt nothing. I'll respond to your other posts when I get a computer perhaps