₦airaland Forum

talked on this somewhere, just lazy learning how to use the search engines to get my specific posts. Anyway then, i hope this would be read instead of drowned by the volume of posts due to frontpage disease. i want to mention from a biblical perspective please, ithink you are all entitled to your views. The Bible states/teaches that man can be divided into three parts/portions of spirit, soul and body. The first thing to establish is that in spiritual technicalities, there is a difference between the soul and the spirit.
1Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole[b] spirit and soul and body [/b]be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Things are muddled up in us humans and we may not immediately or ever realise this truth, or have this knowledge. It's a fact and truth, though not necessarily a saving truth or fact. It's not given much discuss or exposition or prominence in the Bible. Infact the three terms are freely used interchangeably even in the Bible to refer to the man/being. It's important but not necessary, just like we don't all need to know about the pancreas, or endocrine system to live long on earth. Knowledge of this doesn't exactly/basically make you more spiritual or holier or give you more life than others who may not know. Anyways, the scriptures alone can effectively and efficiently divide spirit and soul.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Man was created as a being, now one can be naturally a soulish being or a physical/fleshly being. Jesus Christ was a spiritual being, and all those that are reborn or born again are made spiritual beings and are expected to Walk in the Spirit not in the flesh.
1Corinth 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

We worship God and communicate with God basically in our spirits,before being born again our spirits are separated from God's Spirit, that's why we are considered dead. Man was created as a living soul. Living in the sense of been connected to God, the spirit been alive as it were.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The bolded are the three parts of man. dust is the body, breath of life is the spirit from God, and the soul is ofcourse the soul. They were so fused together that there were no strivings against the things of God or of the Spirit. The spirit reigned, but then man fell/died and now his soul or body now reigns. there is an ursurping. man is now primarily referred to as flesh, fleshly i.e relating to the soul and body who are now more pronounced and reigning as the spirit has lost its source of true life. Self now sits as king.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
We are now commonly referred to as all flesh, every[b]body[/b], and as souls.

Gen 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
The souls in the verse above is very much interchangeable with body or person or being.

Gen 46:27 And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.
The soul is our natural life, the spirit is where our spiritual life is. The soul is the seat of self life, awareness, reasoning. the spirit is where the Lord dwells. It is innermost just like the temple of God, that had the outer courts, the holy place, and the holy of holies. You meet God in the holy of holies.

You are taking scripture out of context, The SOUL that sins will die . so says the Lord.


Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Proverbs 8:36 - But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

James 5:20 - Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


But we agree that at the end of the age all sinners will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone for everlasting destruction.

Matthew 3:12 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Luke 3:17 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
Matthew 13:42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

the soul that sins will die in the sense of being separate from God. The Bible clearly states that death itself will be thrown into the lake of fire after it has given up all the dead that were in it. There will be no more dying. The life which is in hell is no life but death itself. Anything outside God or with Life from God has no life, even if the doctors say he is alive, 1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. .
Sodom and Gomorrah are left to us as an example, they suffered the veangance of ETERNAL fire, but it's common knowledge that they will still be punished on the Judgement day.
Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

The word 'destroy' is used in different senses in the Bible which you may want to consider. It doesn't necessarily translate into ceasing to exist after.
Matthew 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Matthew 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to[b] destroy us[/b]? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
These are evil spirits that cannot die as it were.

Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Talking about destroying the devil, i hope you know the sense in which.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Some people have destroyed the earth it says.

@frosbel
no qualms then. Just make sure you stay in God's life and make it to Heaven, that's most important than understanding or explaining deaths. i'll not really bother re-replying after this except ithink it very necessary.

Death means Death , Pal.

When God pronounced death on Adam , it did not happen immediately - Point 1

So God was speaking with tongue in cheek when He said the scriptures i quote below.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam was chased away from the garden because if HE had taken of the fruit of the tree of life and eaten he we would have lived forever - Point 2

One can be alive physically and yet have no Life in him. Same way one can be physically dead and yet not dead. It would have been terrible if Adam ate of the tree of life afterwards. God sent him out out of love for we humans. Imagine if no man ever died, evil men would forever be evil and treating us all in evil. Many political rulers will never leave the seat of power. See how much people wish for the death of the likes of Hitler, Abacha and co. Imagine if their likes were physically alive forever, and the likes of terrible thieves and other such sinners. they would do themselves and the world more harm than good. they are still going to live in eternal damnation like sodom and gomorrah would. A life without God's eternal Life is no life before God, even though in the world we might say the person is living a long life, or living a large life.

The initial death sentence came to fruition when Adam and his subsequent descendants all experienced death , albeit physically - point 3

At the beginning when Adam sinned he was alienated from God's eternal life but he was not yet dead, let us stick to scripture.

Again, the Word of God ichoose, and let God be true.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
the same trick that Eve fell for, and we think she was a dumbo?

(CEV) except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over!"
(GNB) except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad. You must not eat the fruit of that tree; if you do, you will die the same day."

You seem to be helping us redefine death !!

Death is death.

Death is a sentence , but in most cases it is not carried out immediately because God is giving us a chance to repent of our sins and lay hold of eternal life.

i'm not redefining death, only giving a biblical perspective. there are different types of death, physical death, spiritual death, death to the world, death to self etc. Paul said i die daily. He was truly dead and crucified with Christ. He urged us to mortify the things of the flesh. All these are types of death in the Bible, it's not a private idea.

His spirit does not belong to him , it is the breath of God that gave him life and returns to GOD.

"and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." - Ecclesiastes 12:7

Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

"If God were to take back his spirit and withdraw his breath" - Job 34:14

Job 12:10 In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.

Psalm 104:29 When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust.

There is no argument about who owns all spirits so no need for the many verses. The argument is that death is separation. When a man dies, his spirit is separated/disconnected/detached/taken away from his body.

No believer has gone home to be with the Lord.

This happens at the time of the Resurrection.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

1 Corinthians 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." - John 3:13

Anyone who dies in Christ is in Christ. He has gone to what may be referred to as rest or paradise.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that t[b]hey should rest yet for a little season,[/b] until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The altar by the way is before God in Heaven. please let's rightly divide the Bible.
The ressurection morning involves when believers would be given changed BODIES, and raised as it were, from their sleep.

On the cross , the sins of the whole world were laid on his shoulders,God was pleased to bruise him for you and for me and the entire human race. God never forsook his son.

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Your quote here is insidious and an indictment on our Lord Jesus Christ.

Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

By His very nature, our heavenly Father could not turn away from His only begotten Son, especially at the moment for which God has been preparing him all of his life. Jesus Christ was the crux of history, the one on whose shoulders the salvation of mankind was riding, the one who trusted his Father step by step all the way to this defining moment of His-story. And then God forsook him? That just doesn't make sense. More importantly, it is not what the Bible says.- Source / Truth or Tradition.

You are just repeating tradition, things we have learnt without basis from our childhood.

i'm surprised to say the least. So it now has to 'make sense' to be true or believed upon. Be watchful, iadvice you as a brother. You may also check up sound commentaries on that verse and hear from sound believersinstead of pushing out the tradition card. That something is traditionally accepted does not make it wrong, it is traditionally accepted that Jesus died on the cross and rose again.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

@frosbel

From the verses above, this is proof that ONLY those who are born again will ONE DAY experience immortality. This is not one of our attributes as beings today.

So therefore the damned will remain Mortal, which means they are capable of experiencing death , the second death.

The Soul that sinneth shall die, not live !!

The wages of sin for the mortal soul is death !!!

Why do people keep erroneously insisting , contrary to scripture that even the souls of the damned will be immortalised forever in the lake of fire ?

At the moment ONLY GOD has immortality.

In the lake of fire all mortal unrepentant and damned souls will be devoured by the fire of God and experience the second death which is total destruction from the presence of the Lord.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power" - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

Anything that does not have God's life(i.e the life we receive when we get born again) is considered dead in spiritual parlance.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Having eternal life means you will 'live forever' with God. Anything outside God is no life in spiritual parlance, even if the person thinks he/she is enjoying life.
1Timothy 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

It is in this perspective that Jesus spoke when He made statements like
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
The person of course will die physically in our little understanding, although to Jesus, the believer simply sleeps because he is not separated from God but his spirit is received by God.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

@frosbel

Show me in the bible where death means seperation, it does not !!

'Dead to the world' is a metaphor. It literally means , to be in an oblivious state to the corruption in the world and the system thereof.

We should really begin to examine the scriptures and stop believing anything and everything we have heard from childhood.

Examine the scriptures !!

Death is basically separation my friend, just as true life is connection to God. Anyone who is not connected to God is considered dead in scriptures and in God's view, hence scriptures like let the dead bury their dead, and in the day you eat of that tree, you will die.

Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

alienated from the life of God. These refers to people that are alive in our physical sense, but spiritually dead.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Adam and Eve surely died the moment they ate of that tree. They lost connection/network/fellowship with God, and went into hiding. Their spirits became 'dead' to God. God is a Spirit, and they that worship MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth.
A dead body is simply/basically separated from his inside man. When a man dies physically, he gives up his spirit/ghost i.e his spirit departs from him.

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
To God, and godly language, a dead believer is not dead in that sense we mention 'dead', instead he is sleeping(in sleep mode) or has gone home to be with the Lord. But a sinner even while yet alive is dead because he/she is separated from God.
It is this death/separation that our Lord was said to have feared i.e a separation from God which happened while He was on the cross, and He cried Eli Eli lamasabathani.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Of course, it's not the physical death he feared, that one He freely gave His life for.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

As believers, we are supposed to be dead to sin i.e separated from sin.
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
i should stop here now, i hope to contribute on other similar threads around. please read through and ask questions if not clear. thanks.

OLAADEGBU: May God have mercy on the wify now.

Amen ooooooo my brother, a big AMEN. Because now she doesn't now have a demonic challenge, she has many demonic challenges.

cyrexx: now you are talking.

i always have great regards for christians who serve their God for who he is, not because they fear hell or want his blessings. if he exists at all, i wont serve him because of hell. cos thats no true worship, but forced coercion.

Mr Anony, now i promise you in all sincerity of heart, if i find any true undoubtable evidence for biblical god's existence and his validity as the TRUE CREATOR, I will SURELY get back to you and tell you i found him.

ive been looking for him and he is nowhere to be found.

just in case he will hear me now, let me shout:

O THOU GOD DECLARED TO HUMANITY ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE
MANIFEST YOURSELF TO ME AND PROVE BEYOND DOUBT THAT YOU EXIST AS THE ONLY TRUE CREATOR
I AM SEEKING TO KNOW THE TRUTH
YOUR REFUSAL TO MANIFEST TO ME CONFIRMS THAT YOU ARE NOT DIFFERENT FROM ALLAH, OBATALA, AMADIOHA, VISHNU AND OTHER GODS WHO ALSO CLAIM TO BE THE TRUE CREATOR


amen

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice, that's the Word and promise of God. If you are true, God will reveal Himself to you, location is not a problem. If you are not true, you can't deceive God.

Goshen360: Great work @ Apostle Image123. Keep teaching the Kingdom of God.

yes sir..

very funny stuff, is that a chant up there or what? typical antitithe pattern,repeat it and repeat it until no one bothers to challenge it.

hisblud: in essense you agree i can speak in tongues also?

if you are baptised with the Holy Spirit and have the gift of tongues, then sure. go ahead

1Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Like we’ve seen, keep silence in the churches has to be looked in context. The context of the epistle already shows us that women can pray and prophesy in church gatherings as seen in 1 Corinthians 11. What he is talking of here is silence in teaching men. This is further buttressed and clearly stated in the epistle to Timothy. Of course she can sing, she can pray and lead prayers, she can prophesy, share testimonies, edify to an extent. But she is not permitted to the role of teaching men.

1Cor 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
It’s simply not her role, it’s not about hating one gender or disrespecting one gender. Every part of the body has it’s roles to produce harmony. The ear never wishes to see at times, even though it can argue that it is also two ears and can be larger than the eyes. The brain would not play the role of the lungs. The woman is to bear the baby in the womb, its not the man’s role either. The man doesn’t have that opportunity, or to breatsfeed. The woman has zillion and one many things she can do for God’s glory, and to get great rewards in Heaven. Prayer ministry is an arguably greater ministry than teaching men. She is even permitted to teach women and children as seen/instructed in Titus. Women can be great labourers in evangelism, the Father’s main meat/business.

1Cor 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
The Word of God is not localised, the same word applies to all.

1Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
This is obviously not Paul’s idea but God’s. They are the commandments of the Lord. He says any one that is spiritual will know this, but others would continue to argue.
1Cor 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Again,
1Cor 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Cor 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

1Cor 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Cor 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Prophecy convicts of sin, it is revelation that instructs more perfectly in the ways of God. It’s not all these petty prediction of scores, or subverting of souls common in false prophets. In the case of false prophets, they take center stage, and glory in the heart of the listener. There is no focus or nearness to God, there is no correction or conviction to holy living. It’s all about how the ‘prophet’ would controlling the life and decisions of the listeners.

1Cor 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Let all things be done unto edifying. This is emphasized as the goal. Here we see how the church meetings were conducted in the early church. It’s not about democracy, or about what’s reigning/popular, or making everyone happy with the pastor. Everything has to be done to edification and after a particular order.

1Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Cor 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Very clearly, the mode for speaking in tongues in a church gathering is again stated. If there is no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church. let him keep silence in the church. He’s simply saying that the tongue talker should not come up to blow tongues on everybody but either speak to himself, and of course to God. He can stay at his seat and speak to God without disrupting or disturbing others. It’s not saying he can’t say Amen, alleluia, etc, exchange pleasantries, or join in congregational singing. He is in the context of coming out to speak in tongues TO the congregation of believers. Interpretation by the way, may not be as direct as translation. Translation involves more of word for word, but interpretation may be of the thought line of the tongues. And it should not take the whole course of program. Let it be by two, or at the most b three, and in order.

1Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
There should be discernment/judgement when prophets reveal, speak, exhort. Prophecy/revelation is supposed to be in line with the written Word of God. Many people fall pray to man of God said, man of God said even when he is clearly against what the Bible teaches. Our practices should be in line with the Bible. We shouldn’t be carried away with signs, angels,visions, dreams, spirits and spiritual displays of “thus saith the Lord, my daughter, do this and that”. Don’t be fooled.

1Cor 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

let the first hold his peace, meaning wait for the first person to keep silence. This is opposed to the misconceptions practiced where someone else just shouts and interrupts and the first speaker is forced to keep silence. The house of God should have some form of order, not confusions and politics.

1Cor 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
ye may all prophesy one by one, wait for your turn. You can sit and wait, there is no message too urgent you have to disrupt the service.

1Cor 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. You can control it. If you cannot control it, it probably is not from the Spirit of God anyway. The fruit of the Spirit includes temperance i.e self-control. It is evil spirit that usually possesses one by force and without control. We can actually keep silence.
1Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1Cor 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Cor 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Paul was not despising the gift. He even thanked God for it. Many people are quickly of the opinion that if a person talks down something or speaks against something, then he is jealous, or he hates that thing. No! Paul wasn’t jealous of the baby Corinthians speaking in tongues, neither was he hating on the gift. He also had the gift, and spoke in tongues even more than the Corinthians. He knew how to exercise his gifts, instead of just show off or selfish interests in the house of God.

1Cor 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Yet in the church. We need to know that there is a difference when we are in church and before others. Some people just act selfish with the excuse that they are before God and no one should ‘judge’ their actions. We are not in the church to impress others, but to instruct and impart. The gift of tongues is primarily a private gift. Paul spoke thousands in private but would rather speak five words with his understanding. This is the way of God’s Spirit. We would do well to adjust, and renew our minds to this.

1Cor 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
Be mature.

1Cor 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Here is what I mentioned earlier about tongues been a sign to unbelievers. A very good example is like on the day of Pentecost. Many spoke in other human languages, and the unbelievers were convinced and 3000 souls were added to the church. This is not the speaking of mysteries to God that no man understands. This is not the tongue that nobody understands except the interpreter, that one is to the believers for knowledge, doctrine, revelation. This one is, not to them that believe, at least primarily. This also happens many times with evangelists or missionaries in foreign lands. It is real and still happens today. There are testimonies where one is supposedly praying in tongues, while a passerby or a foreign neighbor is surprisingly hearing a direct warning or message. This type of tongue may not be common or necessary in a place where everybody gathered understands one another. The Spirit of God doesn’t do show-off, He acts with holy purpose.

1Cor 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
Obviously, this is not the tongue that is a sign to the unbeliever, where the speaker probably speaks in the unbelievers’mother tongue. The tongue here is likely the one to be spoken to God, or the one spoken for revelation without interpreter

1Cor 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
Apart from speaking to God which is the primary tongues gift that edifies oneself and is speaking of mysteries as said in verse2, this verse teaches that a tongue can also be used for a) Revelation, b) word of knowledge, c) prophecy, d) doctrine or teaching.
So it means that the Spirit of God has shown us 5 uses of tongues gift, the first and primary one been praying/speaking to God. The other four uses are speaking to men, and only become useful when interpreted. For any of these four uses, there has to be clarity of interpretation, else the person does not need disturb others(us). The next three verses give reasons why.
1Cor 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Cor 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Cor 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
There should always be a balance in the christian life. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Christian should not live off the cliff. There is the balance of faith and works, charity and spiritual gifts, tongues and prophecying. We should not despise any or exclude any. We need both.

1Cor 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
Here we have another dimension of tongues gift. Speaking in tongues MAY be speaking in another world language, like say Chinese, Spanish, Hausa. In this case, there may not necessarily be a need for an interpreter as it acts usually as a sign to the unbeliever. This is different from the tongue trhat speaks mysteries to God that verse 2 says NO MAN understands him. It’s slightly different from thje one that is a message for the believers in the church when interpreted i.e the revelation, doctrine, prophecy one.
1Cor 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
1Cor 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Whatever gift we have or use. It should be primarily with the aim of building up the church, not for show off or for making money. seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Many people want to turn to demi-gods with their gifts, some demand for pay at all cost, these is not right whatever the gift or skill.

1Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Cor 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
We should not be discouraged or hide whatever gift God has given us. Instead, we can pray to be able to use them more, and God does answer when we ask.

1Cor 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Here is the balance again. God wants us to pray in our natural tongues, and also in other tongues also. Do not neglect one or despise one. Many ‘hate’ anything that deals with speaking in tongues, and try to mock it. Some others love to ‘skabbash’ forever. Let’s be like Paul the apostle, I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Cor 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
This verse indicates that Paul has a gathering in mind. Our purpose of leading others in prayer or in singing or whatever is to edify them, not ourselves. It’s unfair to come to lead us in prayer and continue blasting in tongues, you are only edifying yourself, except there is an interpretation. If you cannot interpret or there is no one with the gift to interpret in the meeting, please do this blastings in private or at home or to yourself. It’s unfortunate that the opposite is exalted in many of our churches today. The one leading in prayers arrogantly says that he is talking to God and doesn’t have to interpret. If you want to talk to God, go and sit down and talk, and allow someone who has a word from God to edify or correct or build or teach us to speak. Let someone else lead us in clear prayer requests, that we may call on God in one accord like the early Christians did, and the place may be shaken and we all be edified.

1Cor 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
We should pursue love, and make love our aim. Desire the gift of prophecy. Prophecy in the NT is not as directive as in the OT. In the NT, we don’t have to go mainly via a prophet to know God’s will. Prophecy is exhortation or building up, encouraging or challenging

1Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Speaking in tongues primarily involves speaking to God, not to men. No man understands him. This sort of tongue builds up only the speaker, unlike prophecy which builds up everyone. There is though another kind of tongue-gift that can be interpreted/should be interpreted to edify the listener. But primarily, tongues is speaking to God.
1Cor 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Prophecy is better than speaking in tongues, and it is even the wish of the Apostle that all prophecied.

1Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh, with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh, with tongues,
All can prophesy and God wants all to. Prophesy can just be sharing God’s Word briefly to exhort. But there is the office of the prophet, like the office of the pastor or evangelist. In the office, there is a greater measure of the gift. Tongues with interpretation is equated to prophesying, showing how great a gift the Spirit of God rates prophesying unlike we men that prefer to speak in an unknown tongue for show-off.

should be back here later in the day. note though that death is simply separation, not only separation from God. one can be separate from the world i.e dead to the world.

Goshen360: So in your church, women don't speak? Are they kept in silence? Women in your church don't lead praise and worship? Women in your church don't teach in the children church or in sunday school? Women don't make any speech as in announcement or something related? You need to explain this please.

you threw away the context of the passage, and the point haibe passed across. his point is AS ALSO SAITH THE LAW, striking on the relevance of the law to apostle Paul and the early Christians.

mabell: A deeperlife pastor got healed by TB Joshua in one of their services.
Does anybody have any information on this.
Thanks

a christembassy pastor is in hell.
Does anybody have any information on this.
Thanks

haibe: @Goshen is deut 22:5 not a moral law?

the guess is that it points to Christ and has been fulfilled by Christ?? don't be tempted to ask how.

JeSoul: Much words but no substance. Religion that is a mile wide, but only a inch thick.

I wish 'believers' are able to simply recognize the difference between ceremonial laws & moral laws. Laws instituted for a season and for a specific reason vs. laws that are written on our hearts & are eternal.

what is the difference between ceremonial and moral laws?

thehomer: How is it irrelevant?
If you cannot answer that basic question, then there really was no point continuing the discussion with you especially once you abdicated reason.

it's not basic but irrelevant because God cannot be well discussed in the soul or flesh plane, but in the spirit plane. i'll be wasting good time and energy because the Bible says so. you can't understand what I'm saying on the mind realm. it's like talking to a dog in english, very little will sink in no matter how i try, because we're not on the same plane.

ijawkid: Read jude 7 and tell me if it really quenched then we can really understand what we are talking about...

Ok let me quote it....

New International Version (©1984)
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding towns gave themselves up to
sexual immorality and perversion. They serve
as an example of those who suffer the
punishment of eternal fire.
New Living Translation (©2007)
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and
their neighboring towns, which were filled with
immorality and every kind of sexual
perversion. Those cities were destroyed by
fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire
of God's judgment.
English Standard Version (©2001)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in
sexual immorality and pursued unnatural
desire, serve as an example by undergoing a
punishment of eternal fire.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
around them, since they in the same way as
these indulged in gross immorality and went
after strange flesh, are exhibited as an
example in undergoing the punishment of
eternal fire.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities
about them in like manner, giving themselves
over to fornication, and going after strange
flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering
the vengeance of eternal fire.
International Standard Version (©2008)
Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
near them, which like them committed sexual
sins and engaged in homosexual activities,
serve as an example of the punishment of
eternal fire.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Just as Sadom and Amorah and their
surrounding cities, in which, like these, they
committed fornication and went after other
flesh, are subject to demonstrations of
eternal fire while they are condemned to
judgment.


Sodom and gomorah were condemned or fÀced the purnishment of ETERNAL fire...

That's why I asked if sodom and gomorahs fire has quenched??

Is sodom and gomorah still burning??

The fire is eternal........

I'm trying to make u understand something with this fire/hell fire/fire that never quench theory....

Hope u now know where I'm Ðriving @??

i know where you are driving but do not like where.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah are an example, suffering the vengeance. They are an example of how eternal fire would be. their judgement was utter and permanent. The city never rose again, unlike other some cities punished in the OT, like the Philistines, Egyptians and co who still sort of bounced back even till date. Obviously the people of Sodom are still under judgement, as says Jesus severally. They were not annihilated. The verb is not 'suffered' but suffering.
suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom, in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
the people of sodom would collect their own 'prize' on judgement day too, they never start.

Pastor Kun: It's quite instructive that after 29 pages of heated debate, our tithe merchants have not been able to justify the teaching of monetary tithing from income in the christian church using un twisted scriptures. Tithe preachers are really going to difficult questions to answer on the last day.

you really are not any different from people that teach that giving tithes is basic to salvation, just like i've said before.

thehomer: I've asked you these questions directly yet you choose to answer something irrelevant. Now I'll ask you again;
does your God have a mind? Do spirits have a mind? Stop making irrelevant statements and give direct answers. Use the brain you claim your God gave you.

Thank God you see again that you were faster than yourself, sometimes you need to really make good use of your God given brain. The question is irrelevant, and i'm not answering it. i have the answer with more than two Bible passages to confirm, but it is irrelevant to our discuss, i choose not to answer. Any other question? i hoped you would have supplied bible passages to your baseless assertions on work though.

musKeeto: Hmmm... hypocrite.. the questionable ones are those whose services draw less attendance and have clearly fraudulent names like Sign Fireman.. but Oyeds and Oyaks and Adebs are not cos a lot of engineers, scientists, politicians attend their services...

Bullshiitt...

you are the hypocrite here, i do not know what you mean by separating the names above. they are all subjectable to questioning if they do anything questionable.

Kay 17: This is where Faith comes in. An alternate path to discern reality, just that God, bible, pastor, Jesus, angels etc are absolute and unquestionable.

hope i do not interrupt the assembly? faith should be in God, not in men or angels, so says my Bible. in other words, pastors and angels are 'questionable.'

gugulezwe: In the begining I was afraid of going to bed I would stay up all night feet soaked in holy water rosary on my head holding the bible. At times I would put the crucifix on my pillow and would wake up in the middle of the night to find it facing down. Overtime I learned to be strong in prayer although I am still afflicted I believe I am protected one day this too shall pass. I am not married, no child(had ectopic pregnancy and miscarried) its hard to keep a relationship was a professional now am not emplyoyed. One day I just walked out of my job. For those who think its Africans having a field day with their superstitious beliefs better think again be informed. Ignorance is not always bliss

this is quite sad. Well the good news is that Jesus came to set the captives free. It's written that for this purpose the Son of God was manifested.It is to destroy all the works of the devil in your life. 1John3v8.
Jesus is setting you free the moment you see this, but you also need to come out of that prison. you're a sinner, and you need to forsake your sins, as in FORSAKE. I'll be waiting for your reply.

thehomer: Do you recall saying that the mind was in the domain of the soul not the spirit? Yet you wonder why spirits don't have minds?
You do realize that the task wasn't to go about making money or fathering children but to go out and preach the gospel, perform miracles, fast, pray and other things ignorant Christians like yourself shy away from?

knew what you were going to say. according to the bible, man is flesh i.e body, yet said to possess spirit, soul and body, not only body. That a being is said to be a soul or a spirit doesn't automatically translate that he possesses or doesn't possess the other members. It's not just brainwork. this is not general math and english.
don't know where you get your work doctrine. maybe some bible quoted might help your cause, else it remains figments of your imagination.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Dude, let me clarify something before I answer you. I do not necessarily hold that hell will be literal fire but I hold that it is an everlasting punishment.

Now that said, from what I understand from scripture, the fire that befell Sodom and Gomorrah did quench. I would like to know where you are going with this question.[/quote]wants to pull out a card from Jude about sodom and eternal fire.

thehomer: Have you even been reading what you've been writing?

yes why?
BTW, to cure one of your many ignorances,
Mark 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

the Lord has left His followers with a task of being OCCUPIED till. He comes. there no passage stating that Christians should lazy around until Christ coming. Romans 12 mentions not to be slothful in business.not to forget the popular passage in 2thrasalonians that says that if any doesn't work, neither should he eat. i love my God the way He is, thanks for offering me the option of a 'better god' which you've never met, and doesn't exist.