₦airaland Forum

logicboy01: Typical christian bigot/apologist. You avoided the point that calling all atheists "fools" is bigotry just as calling all muslims or black people fools. You instead went to challenge the other point about atheist technology. Kai.....you people just like to embarass yourselves.



There is no law concerning using the products of atheists. The point that I am making is that it is hypocritical to call atheists fools while using products MADE by atheists. Bill Gates (agnostic), Seun of Nairaland (Atheist). I mentioned specific products that were created by atheists. Bringing up food or schools is just a strawman.

logicboy01: Typical christian bigot/apologist. You avoided the point that calling all atheists "fools" is bigotry just as calling all muslims or black people fools. You instead went to challenge the other point about atheist technology. Kai.....you people just like to embarass yourselves.



There is no law concerning using the products of atheists. The point that I am making is that it is hypocritical to call atheists fools while using products MADE by atheists. Bill Gates (agnostic), Seun of Nairaland (Atheist). I mentioned specific products that were created by atheists. Bringing up food or schools is just a strawman.

logicboy01: The hypocrisy is just sad.


All muslims are fools
-Islamophobic bigotry

All christians are fools
-Anti-christian bigotry

All black people are fools
-Racist. Racial bigotry.


All atheists are fools
-It is okay and it is not immoral because the bible says so. Ironic that you are using computers and a website made by atheists.

OLAADEGBU: A fool, according to Psalm 14:1, is an atheist.

frosbel: I think you should rephrase it my saying , you cannot argue with scripture.

I keep a very open mind on any subject , but if you cannot prove to me beyond reasonable doubt , with the bible ,that your position is valid, I cannot but disagree with you , albeit amicably.

Like you I believed in the tithe and Hell doctrine until late last year when I started to read scripture and discover it's precious truths through God's wisdom.

frosbel: You cannot argue with scripture.

Go and buy a new bible, a plain one, stop reading that Schofield bible, it is full of heresy !!

thehomer: You did mention a faith realm see below. (Emphasis added).



Note that you've still not said what you mean by faith here. You're undecided on whether it is a realm, a transmission medium or an organ for reception. These concepts are quite different you know so stop skipping between them.
Your comparison using language is pointless since you already said you would perform the communication using words and gestures.
You are demonstrating a cognitive bias when you say that the only way to understand you is to already accept your belief as being true.
To cut to the chase, do you understand God?

cyrexx: ^^^^^

everything you have done is to rationalise a lying god who promises to answer prayers but didn't

therefore he is imaginary. everything i posted earlier still stands.

Indeed he did , but he used the word Gehena which depicted a rubbish dump outside the city where all manner of trash was burnt , including dead animals and sometimes the dead bodies of criminals.

Here , the heap of trash was always smouldering and maggots were in plentiful supply , feeding on the trash.

Remember our Lord always spoke in parables, using real life situations to explain matters regarding the kingdom of God and judgement.

First of all worms do not feed on bodies that are alive , but bodies that are dead.

Let me quote some verses to help you .

"All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you." - Isaiah 14:11

Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Here we see in Isaiah a prophesy of the end of the wicked, they will be destroyed in the lake of fire and worms shall cover them. The righteousness shall see it and God's justice will be vindicated.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Here we see that the Chaff is burnt up , with fire that cannot be quenched , which means that no one can extinguish this fire but God, it will be allowed to run it's full course till all sinners are totally destroyed.

And why not ?

Why would any moral being not frown on torture ? When the Jews were burnt in torture chambers, what happened to the perpetrators ? They were give the death sentence. Are we more just than GOD ?

These are your opinions, you are unknowingly following catholic tradition and not the the truth of scripture. You have heard it enough to believe, but this does not make it true.

Please compare scripture with scripture.

Sugar coated

Second death means just that DEATH !!

hmm, so the devil is now the poor guy and God is the bad guy !!

You are wrong again brother.

There is ONLY ONE Israel , not 2. We the Israel, the body of Christ , the Church of Christ , and yes you are right, God has a soft spot for us.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28

"by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two ( Jew and Gentile ) , thus making peace" - Ephesians 2:15

Please don't my brother

One thing I never used to do when I got saved was to challenge the traditional doctrines of the church , many I swallowed hook line and sinker, even though they had no scriptural basis and in many cases were sourced from the pagan Roman catholic church.

Do you know that 2 people committed suicide after Edward's so called 'love' sermon. God has called us to tell sinners to flee from the wrath to come , but he never asked us to terrorise people into believing the gospel, it is not by force.

indeed, there will always be the followers of SATAN and those who walk after their lusts.

Goshen360: @ Image123,

Please STOP all these long story stuff, it's boring and distortion to this thread. I asked you a question and you responded that the "old covenant was the covenant God made WITH ISRAEL THAT AARON....". So I asked you will you NOW agree with me that the Old Covenant was only given to ISRAEL?.

Now, if you insist on we obeying the laws of Moses (generalizing the law now), Kindly answer this second question and let's go straight to the point:

If you have a rebellious son/daughter, will you stone that child to death? Answer YES or NO Please and let's treat issues straight.

Goshen360: @ Image123,

I don't want to go into the debate of ceremonial and moral law stuff with you over and over again. If your claim is that the word "ceremonial and moral" don't appear in the bible and so, there is nothing like that. Well, permit me to say you err in that aspect. Ceremonial includes ordinances as I have stated before. Do you see any ordinances in the ten commandment? Where are you only holding onto trouser? What about stone rebellious kids? What about non-virgins? What about the ones that relates to eating? what about different cloths materials? What about mixed farming? What about wearing tassels and fringes?

For you to say because ceremonial as a word don't appear means we are not making sense is to say we should not believe in trinity, trinity don't appear in the bible. There are many words we use as terminologies today just to explain issues but they dont appear in the bible and you know it. So don't come up with such teachings as there is no ceremonial or moral in the bible. I can as well debate you on this topic without the use of ceremonial or moral law usage, if we are to generalize the law.

WELL, KINDLY ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOVE AND LET'S GO FROM THERE.

So now you agree with me that the first (OLD) covenant WAS WITH ISRAEL? AND NOT WITH THE CHURCH?

Deu 22:1 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt in any case bring them again unto thy brother.
Deu 22:2 And if thy brother be not nigh unto thee, or if thou know him not, then thou shalt bring it unto thine own house, and it shall be with thee until thy brother seek after it, and thou shalt restore it to him again.
Deu 22:3 In like manner shalt thou do with his ass; and so shalt thou do with his raiment; and with all lost thing of thy brother's, which he hath lost, and thou hast found, shalt thou do likewise: thou mayest not hide thyself.
Deu 22:4 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift them up again.

Deu 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Deu 22:6 If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:
Deu 22:7 But thou shalt in any wise let the dam go, and take the young to thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days.

Deu 22:8 When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.

Deu 22:9 Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.
Deu 22:10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.
Deu 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together.

Deu 22:12 Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself.

Deu 22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
Deu 22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
Deu 22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
Deu 22:16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
Deu 22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
Deu 22:18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
Deu 22:19 And they shall amerce him in a hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
Deu 22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Deu 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the LovePeddler in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
Deu 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
Deu 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
Deu 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Deu 22:30 A man shall not take his father's wife, nor discover his father's skirt.

@ Image123,

Can I asked you few questions please? Maybe you might be able to answer this? I guess you are preaching a strange and another Gospel, am just afraid. However, this is my question to you:

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. Heb. 10:9 Kjv.

Then he said, "Look, I have come to do your will." He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect. (NLT)

What do you understand by that verse?

Deu 21:1 If one be found slain in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it, lying in the field, and it be not known who hath slain him:
Deu 21:2 Then thy elders and thy judges shall come forth, and they shall measure unto the cities which are round about him that is slain:
Deu 21:3 And it shall be, that the city which is next unto the slain man, even the elders of that city shall take a heifer, which hath not been wrought with, and which hath not drawn in the yoke;
Deu 21:4 And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer's neck there in the valley:
Deu 21:5 And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:
Deu 21:6 And all the elders of that city, that are next unto the slain man, shall wash their hands over the heifer that is beheaded in the valley:
Deu 21:7 And they shall answer and say, Our hands have not shed this blood, neither have our eyes seen it.
Deu 21:8 Be merciful, O LORD, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of Israel's charge. And the blood shall be forgiven them.
Deu 21:9 So shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.

Deu 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
Deu 21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
Deu 21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

Deu 21:14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

Deu 21:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
Deu 21:16 Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:
Deu 21:17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.

Deu 21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Deu 21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
Deu 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Deu 21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Deu 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
Deu 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

And it is very good as you, haibe & image are talking it out - there are many silent readers who will profit from your discussion. And oh, I have discussed the issue of women speaking in church, women wearing make-up etc etc at least twice with snr brother Image in the past so I will just take the back seat on this one . Cheers & Godbless brother.

fridayiwere: Deut 21:18-21 commanded parent to kill their stubborn and rebellious child. How many parents have really obeyed this law? If wearing of trousers by female is a sin, then, not killing your own rebellious and stubborn child is also a sin. Do u agree? Both are laws contained in book of Deut but of different chapters anyway.
I'm yet to see a direct answer to d question posted above

thehomer: You seem quite confused on what faith is supposed to be.
Is faith a strongly held belief, a realm or an actual organ of the body?
What you seem to be saying is that if I don't already agree with you, then you cannot have a discussion. That way lies the cognitive bias known as confirmation bias. Are you willing to avoid cognitive biases in your discussion?

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to remove poverty in Nigeria and stop the suffering of innocent women and children. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.


We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.
Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect.
When Jesus speaks, he should speak the truth.
Yet when we look at what Jesus says about prayer,
he is clearly lying.
If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God ends poverty in Nigeria and stop the pain and suffering of the innocents . Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements.

Will Jesus answer the prayer now? Of course not. Your prayer will go unanswered, in direct defiance to Jesus' promises in the Bible. In fact, if you pray for anything that is impossible, your prayer will always go unanswered.

If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. The Bible clearly promises that God answers prayers. Yet when we pray, nothing happens What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true.

All who die are sleeping awaiting for the last day , it's in the bible.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

thehomer: Yet you cannot use these words and gestures to discuss this God of yours with me?

That there will be severe punishment and ultimate destruction of sinners is not under debate.

But we misrepresent God when we say that his creatures made in his image will be roasted forever and ever without end in the lake of fire. This is false.

As humans we frown upon the torture of people while here on earth , are we more moral than God. Even in our courts, the sentences are for a specified period of time , normally according to the seriousness of the crime with the ultimate punishment of death.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

The old order of things will pass away with the destruction of the wicked and there will be a brand new order , with no presense of wickedness anywhere in God's universe.

Again it says there will be no more death or pain or crying. This means exactly what it says.

Only Satan is capable of such sadistic ability to torture humans in misery and perpetual sorrow.

God will punish with fierce wrath and will destroy the wicked without mercy , but his anger will not last forever.

"I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me--the breath of man that I have created." - Isaiah 57:16

" will you always be angry? Will your wrath continue forever?' This is how you talk, but you do all the evil you can" - Jeremiah 3:5

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

Please let us stop misrepresenting God because we are trying to be tough by screaming about hell and brimstone.

The only thing that draws people to Christ is not the fear of HELL but the LOVE of GOD.

I have met not a few people who have rejected the gospel because of this myth of a non-ending lake of fire, a chamber of torture for billions of creatures.

Finally death is not seperation , this is something we have grown up with , even the catholics and many other false cults believe in this fable.

Death is Death and is of 2 kinds :

1. Physical Death
2. Second Death of the SOUL

If we escape the wrath that is to come by running to our loving saviour for refuge, our Souls will be immortalised and we will dwell with God forever.

The rest of mankind will be punished according to their deeds and ultimately destroyed.

There will be no endless fire. Imagine this , after 100 billion years , they are just starting their punishment, this is scaremongering and no one will be won to Christ with this Lie.

The soul that sinneth will die, will be destroyed and their remembrance will be forever wiped out.

The memory of the righteous will be a blessing, but the name of the wicked will rot.



Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth; he has no name in the land.

Job 24:20 The womb forgets them, the worm feasts on them; evil men are no longer remembered but are broken like a tree.

Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6 Endless ruin has overtaken the enemy, you have uprooted their cities; even the memory of them has perished.

thehomer: That wasn't what I asked. This is what I asked you.

thehomer: Can you discuss God with anyone on earth?

thehomer: You simply have to admit that you're then saying rubbish. You're communicating with me in English aren't you? How can you communicate these ideas to someone else even a Christian if you're not using some sort of language?
If God cannot be discussed, then how did you actually find out where he is and what he wants? You see, you're simply trying to hide your shrinking God from scrutiny.