₦airaland Forum

thehomer: So spirits don't have minds? Is that what your Bible teachers taught you? If a spirit doesn't have a mind, what makes you think it remains you when you die? You're putting me in an awkward position of educating you on what you're supposed to believe as a Christian. This is why the polls show that atheists actually know more about religions than the religious people themselves. The religious ones don't bother to read and inform themselves on what they're supposed to believe.

how you came to your conclusion about spirits not having minds or having minds is another proof of your ignorance of bible matters.do you watch soccer?

you mean not knowing how Paul died is ignorance of Christianity? you are pathetic for one who claims to think.
you haven't met any god yet you have the right' specifications for how a god should be? religion section is doing much damage to your reasoning, you need to stay away for awhile, my advice.

faith is required for fellowship with God, and to receive from God.It's the link to the spiritual realm. the bible teaches that man is made up of spirit, soul and body. the mind is of the soul not of the spirit. you're doing very poor for bible knowledge.

a God worth his salt would love Christians more than Jesus? you've met a god worth his salt?

afraid? you do suffer from poor retention. so you're a believer now to know what faith is it its crises? you think Jesus suffered a crises of faith on the cross? well, God gave you a brain to think, go ahead.

thehomer: Does he have a mind or is he just some mindless spirit? If he is a mindless spirit, then can you please tell us what a spirit is?

pointless discuss, any other question

my faith is not required to tell me how fast a car is moving, that's not its function. don't know what you mean by what plane to board, but you seem to be mistaking the mind for the spirit.

Good you read that my plans and dreams are very subject and petty to God's plans and will.

the link respect nonsense. Go to a bible store instead. check through some of the bibles there. some of them should write on how paul and some other disciples died. that's basic enough.Jesus was not a Christian,Christians follow Him. you don't know? the disciples were christians. is God supposed to grant christians more 'pleasant' deaths than Jesus?

@thehomer
so because all that you know in your how many years in earth now? says humans can't think without minds, so God must use mind to think? God is not a man mr, stick that in your mind. And i didn't say He has or doesn't have a mind. it remains pointless because you can only have hope of reaching Him on the spirit-plane.

Martian: You are a slave and it seems it suits you to perfection. This jewish diety you worship sound more like a terrorist than a benevolent being. And what crime did you commit for you to be so grateful to him for not murdering you in his self righteous anger??

Most of you would have done very well on the plantations. Singing negro spirituals and waiting for good lord jesus to come save you. Hell, you'e still doing it even though you are upposed to be "free".

rather be God's slave than be in free fall to hell-dead.
i was once a sinner but the Lord saved me. O amazing grace He saved me. He saved me from my sins, myself, from the coming judgement, from the sorrows of sin, from eternal separation from my God. hallelujah.alleluia, Hossanah forever. I'm saved and full of too much joy.

cyrexx: @ image 123
the christian with the "un-christian attitude" of throwing insults here and there. go and read my reply to the insult you gave me in another thread

https://www.nairaland.com/963288/second-death-death#11102325

you may not know that your attitude will turn people away from your religion faster than anything else.

the christians, their teachings and their deeds are the greatest single cause of atheism in the world today. they are just "unbelieveable"

keep turning people to atheism. well done

you repeated basically the same thing you posted on that thread here, why refer me to it, you need followers? you seem toknow v. little about Christianity. BTW, i didn't insult you, technically at least.but since you feel insulted, accept my apologies then.

cyrexx: while i am tempted to to return insult for your insult, i will refrain from doing so. so much for your "un-christian attitude"

you said atheism religion. because you follow a religion, you assume everybody follows religion one way or the other. well refresh your your English Language knowledge. atheism is absence or lack of religion or beliefs in gods.

you may not know that your attitude will turn people away from your religion. christians, their beliefs and their deeds are the greatest single cause of atheism in the world today. they are just "unbelieveable"

keep turning people to atheism. well done

as in seriousness? no be your type them they look for for Heaven. I didn't insult you , only stated your open folly to help you in case of next time

i'm lost here. Does the word 'everlasting' mean something different when it comes before the word fire or punishment or hell? So everlasting life or everlasting God is eternal forever and ever, but everlasting fire is just a little time? Who is really fooling who here? Folks are fooling themselves for free in here no doubt.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

Once you die, you leave this flesh that cannot survive earthly fire. Your evil spirit that refused to repent would survive in hell fire for ever and ever. Your spirit cannot 'die' in a sense, it is eternal having proceeded from the Eternal One the giver of life. No be small matter to be created in the image of God.

see how religion is changing the basic meaning of glaring truths. death is not death but separation. birth is not birth but first birth. life is not life but jesus. na wa o.

for your info, death means death, nothing more. that means the total end of what started as a birth. the human life, plus the so-called human spirit has a definite beginning at birth and it must have a certain definite end one day. nothing more and nothing less.

the myth of a second life of eternal torture is not death by any defintion, not even spiritual death. your so-called spirit has a definite beginning at birth and a definite end at death.

the myth of second life was invented by religions as a carrot and stick mechanism of promising reward or threatening punishment in order to gain followers. simple.

he who has an ear and a mind, let him hear and use his brain to think.

Unfortunate how your atheism religion makes you close minded to basic and simple truths. Death means death, how convenient. Death is a separation basically. It could be the common separation of body from the spirit. It could be the separation of man from fellowship with God as revealed in Genesis 2:17. It could be a separation from the world as alluded to in 1 Corinth 15:31, or a separation of the new man/creature from sin as read in Rom 6:11.

It is very foolish of you to log into a forum, go to the religion section and act surprised to find religious viewpoints. You should stay in the techmarket section, or webmasters, or maybe politics or sports.

So, What is the significance of this command even at the time it was given?
When God gave this command in Deuteronomy, what was the relevance to the Israelites, if truly they all wore the same thing? Is this command not for us, simply because it sounds senseless or purposeless? Was it of more purpose or sense in the time of Moses, than it is now? i do not think that the Word of God is ever irrelevant. Anywhere we want to throw it, it is the Word of God, Deut 22v5 is scripture. That should be established. Whether this scripture should be obeyed is another matter.
First matter, in line with Deuteronomy 22:5, trousers belong to men or pertain to men, and The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. . Another scripture similar to this and found in the new testament is
1Corinth 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

The word 'effeminate' as to do with a person dressing like or behaving like the opposite gender. It is the same Spirit, thought line and wisdom that wrote the two passages, and in which the two passages are written.
i don't think i would consider any christian serious who says/suggests/infers that the book of Deuteronomy is irrelevant or should be waved aside. Jesus Christ didn't wave it aside. Coincidentally, He(Jesus Christ) quoted on record, three times from the book of Deuteronomy when tempted by the devil. It sure must have been a very important book to Him.
1) Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that[b] man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.[/b]
2) Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Deu 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

3) Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Deu 10:20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.

i'll say it again for emphasis. i do not know true followers of Jesus who would trifle with the book of Deuteronomy, or any book of the Bible for that matter. Jesus had utmost regard for all the commandments of the Lord, and so also did all the apostles. It's today we find men more godly than God, and more apostolic than the apostles, telling us that the Word of God is useless, playing religion, or is irrelevant.

So, Is it for us?
So is Deuteronomy 22v5 really for us. In one word, yes. The whole of scripture is for us. Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things (including Deuteronomy 22v5) were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
The sincere question should be what am I learning from here, this verse. Or else, you've already concluded there is nothing to learn, It's OT drab, i'm of the NT blab.
Also, there is a point that should be made, that there is a significant import given to that Deuteronomy 22v5 verse that is conspicuously not given to the about 10verses surrounding it. It's unequal to compare them with each other. People love to quote them in order to discredit the verse. The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Not just to you an abomination, but an abomination to the Lord. How i can explain that now, i can't. i can't explain everything BTW, neither can you the reader.
Jesus was asked Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
The answer He gave proves that not all the law are equal in God's eyes. Leviticus 19v18 is a strong testament to that fact. It lies in the midst of what many will seemingly call irrelevancies. Same too is this Deut 22v5 passage. Deut 22v5 is in the class of;
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an[b] abomination unto the LORD:[/b] and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

---

Deu 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Pro 15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
Pro 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

i do not know of any of these other 'abominations to God' that have been revised in the New Testament, or that do not count as abominations to God again. An unjust balance is what many of us are getting into here BTW.

Apostle John had this to say,
1John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
sin is the transgression of the law. Ever thought of that? Anytime you transgress the law, YOU SIN.
Apostle Paul said,

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

He's not giving the gentiles an excuse to disobey the law, on the contrary, he is commending some gentiles who obey/do the things contained in the law. the problem with the OT is not the law or the commandments, they are good and holy, not were. The problem with OT believers is their marriage to the law. NT believers should be married to Christ, not to the law. With Christ, we can obey God's law. When married to God's law, we can't.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
If you paint wearing or not wearing trousers as a burden, then you need to paint NT laws. NT laws are impossible without God's grace. OT says don't kill, NT says don't even be angry. Agree with thine adversary quickly. OT says don't commit adultery, NT says don't even think about it. Which is easier? You don't even need to be a christian/jew to keep the Old testament. For the new testament, you can't even be a human being and keep it. What's with praying and blessing your enemies, not putting away your wife or husband, rejoicing in persecution, praying without ceasing and recompensing good for evil? That's all impossible but by God.
The real and main difference in the OT and NT is that the OT says do this and that, but will not help you one bit, but is to prove that you cannot fulfill it all. The NT says far more than do this and that, but you have a bridegroom who is willing to help you, and has been helping many like me. Forget all that story about OT is old and irrelevant.

i hope this post would be read.

Well i find it needful to take some time to talk on this matter, seeing as my friend Goshen has said that we should prove all things, and hold fast to that which is good. i DO NOT proclaim this as the gospel of salvation pleaseeeeee,it's a teaching in sincerity and truth. i do not normally 'carry this on the head, or condemn anyone for wearing what they wear, anywhere. But if truth needs be told, and honesty need be our watchword, then i find it important to say a bit on what is known. As childen of God, we are sheep, please remember that. Sheep are not too strong or too intelligent, like dogs, or goats. We should not count ourselves intelligent, especially in spiritual things, and by all means, Deut 22v5 is spiritual thing.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

i asked a question, and glaringly but shamefully noticed our pride in answering the question. Pride is of satan, and so also is dishonesty. And those may just be the motives God is looking at as we prove these lines of scripture.
DEUTERONOMY 22v5

(BBE) It is not right for a woman to be dressed in man's clothing, or for a man to put on a woman's robe: whoever does such things is disgusting to the Lord your God.

(CEV) Women must not pretend to be men, and men must not pretend to be women. The LORD your God is disgusted with people who do that.

(GNB) "Women are not to wear men's clothing, and men are not to wear women's clothing; the LORD your God hates people who do such things.

(KJV) The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

(WEB) A woman shall not wear men's clothing, neither shall a man put on women's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to Yahweh your God.
For those of us used to the king james, pertain simply means to belong to. Trousers are not the only things, but it is the subject of the thread. It is obvious that trousers belong to men, from history and from scripture, without bias or dishonesty. Many questions arise from this thread.
1. Who do trousers belong to?
2. What is the significance of this command even at the time it was given?
3. Is it for us?

So, who do trousers really belong to?
From history, it belongs to men. Without prior research, many would rightly conclude that trousers belong to men. But for our many researchers and provers on this forum/thread, please kindly read on fashion, and on clothing, and on the history of the trousers, ans slacks, and skirts maybe.
- You would come across with sentences like In the west, trousers have been the standard lower body clothing item for males since the 16th century. It became prevalent by the late 20th century for females as well
Traditionally, they were first introduced by king Wu of Zhao in 375BC, who copied the custom from non chinese horsemen on his northern border
Trousers trace their ancestry to the individual hose worn by men in the 15th century

Also please read on transvestism, and on cross dressing.
History tells of the likes of
a) Amelia Bloomer (1818-94), American reformer. Amelia Jenks Bloomer was born in Homer, New York. Famous for her stand in favor of dress reform, she appeared at her lectures during the early 1850s wearing full trousers, gathered at the ankle, under a short skirt.
Microsoft ® Encarta ® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

b)Rosa Bonheur (1822-1899), French painter, born in Bordeaux. She was given governmental permission to cross-dress, and made animal studies in markets and fairs while dressed as a man. In 1894 she became the first woman to receive the Grand Cross of the French Legion of Honor.
Microsoft ® Encarta ® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

c) Joan of Arc (1412-1431)
d) Otzi the Iceman, 5000 year old male with trousers. An interesting read BTW.

These four and others plainly show that trousers were originally pertaining to men, except we want to erase history. Also, note the dates.

From scriptures, it's common to hear people say there are no trousers in scripture. But the keen observer would see that the men wore trousers, even with whatever else they wore. As far back as the Exodus, they knew what trousers were, not to mention Otzi the Iceman.
Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their unclothedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:
The word 'breeches' is another word for trousers, and it appears five times in my word search on the kjv. It's rendered trousers in some other versions BTW. It puts paid to the ignorant assertion that they only wore skirts in the Bible.

thehomer
1. what i know is that God is a Spirit. it's pointless on whether He has a mind or no. There is NO ACCESS through the mind anyway.
2. what do you mean by accurate answers, with examples?


meanwhile, i didn't complete my previous post

Now you're simply trying to be evasive. My question to you is do you care about what happens to the dead body?

Thought i already said Yes i care, but that is subject, very subject to God's grand plan for me. Everyone has his/her little dreams and desires, like wanting to be the president of the whole earth, or the richest man in the world, or study medicine or whatever. but just as we can't always get all what we want physically, so also in the spiritual realm. Some would wish that they never leave this world even, but we all have to go home someday. the main issue then is are you ready to go home. What home are you going to?

Actually, not like faith. There are several definitions of faith and some of them do not apply to all humans.

stick with the Christian definition as found in Hebrews, you are 'discussing' with a christian, remember?

How do you know how Paul died? Historians looking into it don't know so how do you know? What is the relevance of how Jesus died?

I've read from historians who know how Paul died. that you haven't doesn't mean the whole world hasn't. Or you are omniscient too? Jesus' death is even more relevant than Paul. Shows you were not even following the discuss. Jesus the beloved Son of God died a 'not so pleasant death', therefore atheists like thehomer shouldn't be giving us conditions on how they expect christians to die.

What newer options are you talking about? The guy was crying that God had forsaken him. You seem to misunderstand what you were saying. You were talking about someone's faith being shaken not that they're feeling pain.

what exactly do you mean by one's faith been shaken then. Jesus didn't disbelieve God on the cross or lose trust in God or become an athiest(that to me, is faith being shaken). he simply cried out after going through an experience He had never had since forever/eternity. Like you scream when you are injected or whipped.

Unless they're all masochists, they would have preferred not to die in pain. If you still think otherwise, then I suspect you're just being dishonest.
Why don't you prepare for eternity by constantly praying and meditating? Rather than surfing the net and going to work?

well whatever name you label them, i follow them, not your opinions. And the Bible clearly speaks of them been happy and fulfilled to go through all they went through. And they did go through so much.
God did not tell me to only prepare for eternity by constantly praying and meditating. i am permitted, even commanded to work. You've not read the Bible i must say, or perhaps you read selectively and forgetfully at the same time. Ever heard of the term 'multitasking'?

The idea of burning in Hell for eternity isn't a compassionate one. Besides, God being the owner of everything and not being petty should actually be able to continue being compassionate rather than becoming a monster.

you only have such views because of your pride. you think God is your mate/equal. The relationship between you and the muskeetos, cockroaches and lizards in your house is closer than your relationship to God. what a monster you must be to your neighbours.

I've answered this before. An example would be a person dying in peace in their sleep. And note that I'm not talking about a pleasurable death but about a less painful death.

Some have a different viewpoint. Some see it as badluck, witchcraft to die in the sleep. Some forever hold their relatives in the village in badlight for shooting an arrow on their bread winner who, to you, died peacefully in his sleep. It took the victims of the plane crash less than a minute to feel pain and die, if they all felt any even.

Gosh, pls shut up about haibe's denomination and focus on the discussion please, it's starting to irritate. what's the denomination, ironically?

cyrexx: @ observer2
thanks, mankind will never know true peace and freedom until religion loses its grip on human mind.
One love, man.

wrong, stick this in your brain instead. Mankind will never know true peace and freedom until Jesus Christ comes again.

cyrexx: another tales by moonlight. Have you been following this thread from the beginning?

old wiise one, you think you're on the thread?

Jenwitemi: What was that? My race? You mean, the black race? That sounds rather racist, bro. But that wouldn't surprise me if your god is also a racist deity who sees the black race as an afterthought he can "invite" to his stupid kingdom.

pathetic and not well thought as is your custom, ever heard of 'human race' it you only live to play the injured card?

ijawkid: Lol

Definitly satan with a pitch fork in hell....

Its funny when I hear these stories...

Instead of many to be struggling to decipher what d book of revelations has to say to us and what we shuld expect in this stream of time many are busy dispensing spurious dreams and revelations...

I never listen to prophecies or dreams or visions of people today,because all we need is in d book d bible.....

I rather find it interesting to delve into bible chronology and see how events recorded in d bible fit into our day....

not to downplay anyone's experience though, but all experience should be in lieu and light of the Scriptures and the Spirit of God with discernment.

is it a new book? who did she see in hell and heaven BTW,

Jenwitemi: Thank you, bro. Need to hammer some sense into this christian whose way of thinking is totally weird and off track.

folly should not be so dignified jenwit, God has myriads of uncountable angelis, He only shows your race a huge favour by extending an hand of invitation into His kingdom.

1. what i know is that God is a Spirit. it's pointless on whether He has a mind or no. There is NO ACCESS through the mind anyway.
2. what do you mean by accurate answers, with examples?

jacobscros: How does one get this? Isn't being born again all u need

thirst, ask and believe basically.

ATMC: @image123, here is d answer to ur question. D first person to wear trouser is an asian woman who is a farmer, she had to sow her flowing skirt in d middle cos breeze blew it about as she cultivated

guru, any source or backup BTW? i thought though that the question was plural and initialized with a WHEN.

Jenwitemi: As a christian yourself, i'd expect you to think that since you've been pumped full with christian dogmatic bollocks all your life. Anything outside the trash you hear from the pulpit weekly will always sound like bollocks to you. They don't call it "indoctrination" for nothing.

a wonder then that i've always surpassed and excelled my atheistic and unbelieving colleagues even in matters outside theology and religion

[quote author=Mr_Anony]The question is not difficult at all, it is just irrelevant and silly that's all[/quote]abeg, siddon for bench jare, make i enjoy haibe nice epistle.

ooops, almost forgot. You need the Holy Ghost ASAP.

it takes grace. simply rest on God's grace every single step and hide yourself in God's word and in fellowship with other believers.

talking philosophical bollocks with reckless swag, that's jenwit for you o

Image123: [/quote]

Image123:
deuteronomy 22.5.
i want to ask everyone, the first trousers, when was it worn and what gender did it belong to?

[quote author=Image123]

it appears the question is more difficult than i imagined. i am sincerely amused.

it's good to hear that you're enjoying it. i asked you first.