₦airaland Forum

September 12 Knowledge in Acknowledgement

1Corinth 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

REMEMBER- That is one big word. Nobody can pass if he does not remember. It is very important that we remember. There is no proof of knowledge if you do not remember. The three phases of time are before, now and after. In the quest of life, each phase has to be remembered in its own compartments.Do not blank out any phase. There should be acknowledgement.
Acknowledgement of your past should produce gratitude. Your acknowledgement should increase your knowledge. You know, acknowledge, that you were gentiles. You were! As a believer, always remember that. You were gentiles, but are NOW of the commonwealth of Israel! It is unfortunate many believers think they are still gentiles. You were gentiles. now, all things are become new. New culture, new custom, new tradition, new language, new style. YOU WERE. Stop acting like a gentile, talking like a gentile, thinking like a gentile.
Acknowledgement that you were a gentile should produce a change. Some people claim to be of the Israel of God without a corresponding change from their previous lifestyle as gentiles. They do not KNOW that they WERE Gentiles, carried away with dumb idols as they were led. They still worship gentile, dress gentile, pray gentile, eat gentile, walk gentile and work gentile. They are still in ignorance. From today, remember, know that you were gentile. No more gentile, you were. Now therefore, you are now focused, with your affections set, not carried away unto dumb things that have no eternal relevance. When you KNOW, you would not be so carried away by your job, or your music, or sport, or money, or learning, or internet, or social networking, or anything. You will boldly say "I am crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that lives, and I will not be carried away by anything but Jesus". Prayer and spiritual things will take priority and you will at last have those spiritual gifts that you only read about.

To the second question;

The Bible equates “the world” with the earth. In fact, this can be seen from your own post. Therefore, it is bad people, and not the physical earth that will be swept off. And equates “the heavens” with principalities and governmental authorities (See Eph 6:12).

Actually, the Bible refers to 'the/this world' in at least two different definitions. One is as a people, like we say the world's population.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Two is as the earth and its system, like we talk of the world map.
1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
The context determines what is been referred to. The heaven(s) is the sky, the atmosphere, or larger still, the universe.
Mark 6:41 And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and broke the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
There is no hint of any principality or governmental authority in these two passages.

While 2 Pet 3:13 was clearly a reference to a glorious future, Isa 65:17, where the new heaven and a new earth were first prophesied, was in reference to the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon and had nothing to do with the creation of brand new heavens or earths. From the points above, it can be inferred that it is bad kings, not the physical earth, that will go. At least, that is how that argument goes.

Isaiah 65 starts with, and majors on the calling of the gentiles. It ends with the end of time, paradise.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die a hundred years old; but the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed.
the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon? B.C? ithinknot.

Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
This is a reference to the period of the 1000year reign i.e verse 25. the whole chapter is prophecy, most of which is yet to be fulfilled in fullness. What do creating new heavens and earth have to do with Babylon captives BTW?

The Bible is emphatic that the heaven and earth will last forever and will not be destroyed.
Psalm 45:6 (NKJV): Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

The heavens are the throne of God. Any suggestion that the heavens will be replaced appear to suggest that God’s throne will be ripped off and replaced.

Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Scriptures should be interpreted with all other scriptures in mind. Else you would end up with contradictions that are not there, like the muslins. Also, the heavens in question is our sky, where the sun, cloud, moon, stars, planets, satellites, space ships are. That's not where God and the angels are, rumor has it that some dumb scientists went to look for God there and did not find Him.

Psalm 115:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’s; But the earth He has given to the children of men.
Thus it has been argued that “heaven and earth shall pass away” found in Luke 21:33 should be read metaphorically. That is, like Jesus saying that a camel will pass through the eye of the needle before a rich man enters the kingdom of God. In fact, here is how Matthew relates the passing away statement: Matt 5:18 (NKJV) 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

This doesn't add up. How does the Psalm verse make the Luke verse a metaphor?

And the earth? Here:
Ecclesiastes 1:4 (NKJV)
4 One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever.

Already talked about this. It is 'the earth', and not 'this earth'. You have the benefit of hindsight, and a greater than Solomon said "Heaven and earth shall pass away", the new earth will abide forever, this earth will be dissolved in fervent heat, and there would be found NO PLACE for it.

As for the verses talking about saints in heaven and under the altars, there are quite a number of verses stating saints did not go heaven. I will cite just one:
Acts 2:34 (NKJV)
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,

i've not being quoting from the koran or ababio. Elijah went to heaven. It is in the Bible also

2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Moses also went to heaven, and came down with Elijah to Jesus Christ on the mount of transfiguration.
Luke 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah:
Luke 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
Moses didn't come like the witchdoctor from the living dead. He came from heaven, with information about Jesus' decease.
Enoch went to heaven, God took him personally.
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him

Heb 11:5
(BBE) By faith Enoch was taken up to heaven so that he did not see death; he was seen no longer, for God took him away: for before he was taken, witness had been given that he was well-pleasing to God:
(CEV) Enoch had faith and did not die. He pleased God, and God took him up to heaven. That's why his body was never found.
(KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

It may be argued that Stephen went to Heaven if your spirit is truly the real you as some like Joagbaje would say, but i'll skip that.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

The three instances i gave in Revelations are in Heaven. Here they are again, and two more to help.
- Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
- Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:
- Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, [/b]clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
- Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood [b]out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
- Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
These are quite a number of verses stating saints did go heaven, and i did not mention aleth's altar souls.

Now the question: Given the Bible’s position that the heaven and earth are going nowhere, how do you reconcile this with your view that the heaven and earth will be replaced? Don’t you think the “metaphor” explanation of the verses you cited should be allowed to stand?

To be thorough again,
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
The Bible's position is that when the going gets tough, this earth and heaven will take to their heels in such a frenzy there will be no place found for them again forever and ever and ever and ever. Amen.

@MyJoe
Sorry fros and ijawk, i'll answer your posts in this response to MyJoe. You both sidestepped the passages i presented though.
So we are in the second phase and i think it is good progress, plus the point that we started with NO ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN to a new point of 144000 going to Heaven. It's some movement.

The believers will inherit the new earth. Their portion is heaven. You need to reconcile these. I am ware some explanations have been proffered. For example, Joagbaje, I hope I’m recalling him correctly, is of the view that Christians will be raptured to heaven to be with Jesus for 1,000 years. Then they will come back to the earth. But they will all land at Israel where they will done Israeli army fatigues to join the beloved Jews to vanquish the Arabs and all the enemies of Israel.
What is your own explanation for this matter of going to be with Jesus in heaven and also inheriting the new earth?

The scripture teaches destination Heaven. We would not be strangers and pilgrims if we are to inherit this earth. Its undeniable that believers are citizens of Heaven.

Philippians 3:20

(ALT) For our citizenship exists in [the] heavens, from where also we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

(ASV) For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

(BBE) For our country is in heaven; from where the Saviour for whom we are waiting will come, even the Lord Jesus Christ:

(CEV) But we are citizens of heaven and are eagerly waiting for our Savior to come from there. Our Lord Jesus Christ

(GW) We, however, are citizens of heaven. We look forward to the Lord Jesus Christ coming from heaven as our Savior.

(ISV) Our citizenship, however, is in heaven, and it is from there that we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

(KJV) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ:
This point is clear, lets not forget that or have me requoting myself. Now to the reconciliation. i would love to go through several passages from the scriptures but for time/now, let me use Revelation and perhaps some chip in from other passages. The book of Revelations mentions of people in Heaven.

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:
These are UNDENIABLY people in Heaven. And like Jesus said "great is your reward in heaven". I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. After this phase, these people will come down to this earth WITH Jesus Christ to reign for 1000years. They are not staying in Heaven to reign by bluetooth or whatever method ijawk is proposing.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
This passage references Jesus Christ about to come to earth, not just to the skies but to touch down on earth.


Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Notice He's not coming alone but with an army of saints.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Incase you didn't get it before, i hope you get it from these verses that it is referring to Jesus Christ and that He would smite the nations.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
As is customary, Jesus gets the victory when He comes to this earth with His saints from HEAVEN. Then they proceed on a 1000year reign to show the world how its been done. It is in that period that there will be peace unprecedented from the Prince of Peace, and the wolf and the lamb will ..., and the paradise pictures on the JW mags will make sense etc.


Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
At this same time, Satan would be bound concurrently, there will be no tempter, no accuser, or destroyer. 1000years of some sanity and the saints/believers will reign on this earth for that thousand years with Jesus.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
This is the momenttime Jesus spoke of, when the 12 would be in charge of Israel, and maybe me in charge of Nigeriahahahaha. On a serious note, observe also the souls that alethia talked of 'under the altar', they also get to reign and their friends. And ofcourse, ijawk's 144000 would also be there. It's all the same time. But this is NOT forever and ever. This is for a thousand years. Reigning on this earth is for 1000years. This is not our inheritance. After the 100years, Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Satan would come to earth and deceive some of the people that the saints are reigning over.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Incase you didn't get it that the saints are on earth for 1000years, this passage should settle it. They COMPASSED THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS AND JERUSALEM. This time around, God the Father sent/sends down fire, and captures the devil for final judgement. After this, everybody gets to go to Heaven, yay but no yay, for the great white throne judgement.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Jesus is back in Heaven with the saints, and alot of visitors. Just to chip in that Jesus is the scary 'Him that sat on it'
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
The bolded is the part where this earth and heaven pass away LITERALLY. Peter clearly says that this world would be destroyed, and i've shown of Jesus talking of 'this world' and 'that world'. He is the One who knows all things, and through whom grace and truth came. He is greater than Solomon and Ecclesiates or Psalms or whatever passage(which BTW all referred to 'the earth' and not specifically 'this earth', not having the benefit of hindsight, a complete Bible or the Holy Spirit in the fullness that we are opportuned).

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
This earth and its heaven would be destroyed by fire.
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Looks like a contradiction coming from the Psalms, but with Jesus comes the light and the revelation that there are actually two earths, and the context determines which is being referred to.

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. Quite peteric imustsay. There is an END to this world.
Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be forever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
All these heat cannot be happening and people are on the earth. You may want to ask the geologists and scientists, this is a very simple and catastrophic thing for God to do. It simply takes Him a distabilizing of the system. The earth will be burnt up and its elements. It's not referring to an age or metaphor or people, its talking of physical things
(CEV) The day of the Lord's return will surprise us like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a loud noise, and the heat will melt the whole universe. Then the earth and everything on it will be seen for what they are.
(GNB) But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. On that Day the heavens will disappear with a shrill noise, the heavenly bodies will burn up and be destroyed, and the earth with everything in it will vanish.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
All these things will be dissolved. the earth is all vanity. These things are the physical earth and what's in it, its not just people or an age or system, it is the tangible earth.
1John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
This Peter passage is so repetitive of this issue that this earth will be destroyed and a new earth would come. that is why our hope is in Heaven, that is where there is no corruption. That is where things will last.
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Heb 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

And so, at this great white throne judgement, the earth and the heaven, or more specifically, this earth and its heaven will be destroyed. and there was found no place for them.

Then follows the judgement of others,

---

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

---

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
The bolded is clear, i don't need to reexplain. There is a new heaven, a new earth, a first heaven, and a first earth. None of the four is metaphoric. the verse even geographically states as a matter of fact that there is no sea in this new earth. It's geographically said that this earth has 70% sea and 30% land, but that new earth has no sea. This is so physical, it is not talking about ages, or a set of people. If anything is talking about a set of people, it may be the Holy city COMING OUT OF HEAVEN. Talk about NO ONE GOING to Heaven.
Well, this new earth and new heaven is itself nothing short of Heaven. there is no sun in this one.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.
No night in Heaven, alleluia. God is there physically dwelling there. Why would anybody argue that this kain place is not Heaven, just to play with words or what? God is there 247, Jesus is there 247, the tree of life is there, the angels are there. The river of life is there, the throne of God and of the Lamb is there.
Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Obviously now, the set that are in the place these verses talk about are in Heaven anyway we put it. that's the reconciliation.

it's a public place of worship, one should not forget commonsense simply because he's going for altar call or first timer call, or nature call, or deliverance call. you should take your belongings with you or tell someone to keep them for you. Its the same way some would be 'under deliverance' and get pregnant or robbed. The church is a public place of worship, not a Heaven of angels.

every version and translation has its 'facts'. Nothing do you kjv , you are loved.

September 11 Kicking against thorns



Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

God gave life, and His purpose is that life must be centered on Him.. If a company or an individual manufactures something, they do it with a purpose or goal in mind. they state that this machine or equipment or noun should be used for that that purpose, at this temperature range, that current/voltage, having a warranty of Xdays, don't touch these parts or remove that part, else you lose the warranty. Once the machine, equipment or noun cannot perform its purpose, it is no more fit.
This is so similar to man. Man was made to obey God, to please God, to show forth His glory. Anything outside this grand purpose renders you unfit for Him. This is why it is not just disobeying the law of the land and nature, like stealing or killing that can earn you God's wrath. Sin is failure to meet the mark of God's standard of righteousness. it's the bull's eye or nothing. It's more than being good or right. it's about knowing what god wants and doing it. When and if you ever understand this, then it becomes less mysterious to you, why God would remove Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden without them committing murder or adultery or some 'terrible' sin. Why God would stop Moses from Canaanland, why God would punish Uzzah for touching the Ark, or the young prophet for eating bread and water, and some other such cases.
We are created by God and would function best if we follow God's will and plan for us, regardless of how sweet, good and made we may think of our plan for ourselves. God told Adam and repeated to Noah that His plan and will was for man to be fruitful, and to multiply, and to REPLENISH the earth. men came together in our today's passage, and felt that they had a better and cuter plan. their plan was to stay together and make a name by building a city. They ended up kicking against thorns, not a very pleasant activity to engage in. Today, we are still trying to pick up the pieces of the divisions their actions resulted in. The lesson is to do the will of God. the will of God will bring joy and fulfillment, man's ultimate pursuit.

@MyJoe and others

Not yet. We still need you around here - who will anchor the brilliant "Today's Rhema" thread?

I'm not sure the thread is not about a new earth. Op said no heaven for the good guys and brought copious amounts of scriptures to show that instead their portion will be a new earth. I doubt you can address one without addressing the other.

Okay at your service. iguess i was initially narrow on frosbel because of his recent history and his direct statements as "Believe me no one is going to heaven" and this below.

no one is going to Heaven, absolutely false.

We are going to inherit a new earth.

I have quoted dozens of verses , please show me yours that back up this strange concept of ' we die and go to heaven '.

To be more broad though, there is no disagreement to the existence of new heavens and a new earth. The subtle difference is that i believe that there will be a new earth, but frosbel believes that this earth is the new earth. The Bible teaches that there will be a new earth that is DIFFERENT from this earth. Fros and the gang(including your JW friends,sorry) believe that believers are going nowhere but will be in this earth. i believe we are not going to be in this earth but another which is the new earth, and that we are going to Heaven (actually, the true 'shocker' is that we are all going to Heaven, both saints and sinners).
The Bible makes a distinction between two different earths. the verses below are some examples.
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Jesus didn't say "heaven and earth MAY pass away", He said "heaven and earth shall pass away"
Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Obviously, He knew that this earth would not continue forever. Peter talks about the destruction of this earth.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The Bible characters knew that we(believers) were STRANGERS in this world and pilgrims, travelers, visitors. they said that our citizenship is in Heaven, frosbel without mincing words says it is here on earth.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Jesus Christ made several distinctions between this earth and the new earth;
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luk 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

So when the Bible talks about 'the world' or 'the earth', it behooves us that we consider the Spirit and the context, is it this world or that earth that is been referenced, instead of fumbling it all together and confidently confusing others in the process.

That being stated, apart from the saints/believers inheriting the new earth and NOT THIS EARTH(Like the song writer says "This world is not mine own", the Bible teaches that the believers would go to Heaven and are from Heaven. Here are scriptures like was asked for;
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also
Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. .
Jesus went to Heaven to prepare a place, it's not this earth He's preparing.

Phi 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ:
our conversation, our citizenship is in Heaven.

Heb 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, KNOWING in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
This heaven is common knowlegde even to the athiest until frosbel and his gang comes along with strange teaching to catch attention.

1Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Some sect usually say that some few people are going to Heaven, but frosbel boldly states in topic thread and posts that NO ONE is going to Heaven. Yet the Bible states otherwise. Enoch and Elijah are in Heaven. Moses and Elijah came to Jesus during His transfiguration from Heaven, not to forget the souls at the altar that have been previously mentioned. here are three other instances of people in Heaven;
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:


If frosbel and the gang don't want to go to Heaven, well I have heard about Heaven, and I want to go there. Many of us have our affections set there. SOrry its a little long, understand this first phase and then perhaps other phases unclear or unexaplained can be further explained.

The first reason i gave ( The Genesis is a genesis/beginning of man i.e as it concerns man's race. It is our beginning and of that which concerns us.) explains why we do not bring into our own race, the creation of angels and devils and the fall of satan. They are not of our race, neither do they have our salvation. The angels were already in existence when God laid the foundations of the earth.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Okay, so to the PreAdamic and gap theory. ithink it should be clearly stated that knowledge is not what saves us but faith.

1Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The Bible does not say specifically that there was no gap between Genesis 1:1-3, neither does it say specifically there was. For instance,
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Benefit of hindsight gives us the opportunity to see the 'gapS' in these two verses from Isaiah even though the Bible doesn't directly state it. In a similar vein, there are serious reasons and verses in the Bible and in reality that suggest that there MAY have been a gap. Without wasting time on preambles, lemme immediately state some of the reasons i[b]think[/b] there is some gap in the Genesis account.

1. The Genesis is a genesis/beginning of man i.e as it concerns man's race. It is our beginning and of that which concerns us. Not all facts are stated in the scriptures but such as concern our salvation and pilgrimage.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing. Not everything is left bare on the surface HoHa for us. And not everything is compulsory to know or have. i believe that when the new heavens and earth God promised commences, that race would also have a reference point "In the beginning God".
2. Central to my reason is this passage and its likes.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Two words are used there interestingly CREATED and MADE. They may appear the same to us and can even be used interchangeably in our everyday language, but its notable that the writer of the first five books of the Bible is very careful in using the word 'create(d)' as opposed to the use of the word 'made/make'. i sincerely don't think it a coincidence. To create is not as general as to make. Genesis 2.3 says God created and made.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
It may not be coincidence that after verse1, God began to make instead of create, except in two cases, verse21 and man. The two cases can also be said to have been made, but the word 'create' is put ithink to show that there was a new thing in them that never existed prior. i stongly believe that light existed before our day 1, God Himself is light (1John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. ) Genesis doesn't say God created light on the first day, He spoke light into our world, and that's why it later says on another day that He made the lights and the stars. Its not a create but a make, an appointing in this case.

3. the Bible never ever states that God created the heavens and the earth in six days, but it says God made in six days.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Coincidence in word choice? ithink not.

i do notsupport dating, neither does God. It's complete walking by sight. Mary was espoused, in courtship with Joseph, not having some frivolous dating fun.

Ola mi, how and why would Dr. Snelling say ALL the available evidence? Is he talking about just the evidence available to him which doesn't even look like evidence but conjecture?

bank customers can reject 5000naira notes? what of we common people who are not bank customers? the conductors, the gala, la casera and bread hawkers? the recharge card seller and pure water vendors, how do we also reject the 5000naira notes without fights, curses and hype and at no loss?

Yes, today officially marks my resumption from my nl leave. ihope to contribute to this thread and others in more words than quips later on

even atheists are persecuted. Persecution is not necessarily a mark of been in the right path. What Scripture teaches is that we should expect it it's not a cushion for your folly.

MyJoe: @Image123
How is you doing?

The man has quoted many verses demonstrating new earth. Why are you dismissing them with one Corrinthians? What happens to the New Earth?

hey I'm fine ithink. the thread is not about a NEW earth is it? it's about going to heaven and I'm on my way dia.

dangerous, how?

you mean when the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters, justthinking He probably spent some while ontop naija. Anyhow, was the earth created in verse2 or verse1 and is the right verse day1? thanks Gosh .

sad times really, talk about drawing back. Just to throw in though, how Jesus compared the Holy Ghost to Himself, calling Him Another Comforter.

MacDaddy01: My family knows that I'm an atheist.


Thanks for bearing false witness

clueless as usual. i GUESSED that your family don't know HOW/ THE DEPTH OR INTENSITY of how Antichrist you are, not that they don't know you as the fringe depresso who has lost hope in religion.

i didn't expect you to see it.I'll be a little surprised if you see or hear anything in your state. my post was for those that have ears to hear and eyes to see.
about polite, which btw is relative, you were the first to admit to being personally under a deluded impression. good night

you're a clueless, faceless sissy. I guess your immediate family don't even know how Antichrist you are, na to come internet dey droll you sabi. Go and sleep lad.

*are you already vomiting?

frosbel: Ah okay , sorry

I was under the deluded impression that you meant we all go to heaven when we die !

you certainly sound deluded. The verse you are v.happy to quote says nothing about this earth, which you claim as your home, but speaks of a HEAVENly city. not this earth been referred to as a city.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Bros, please tell me you are not taking that question seriously[/quote]does it sound unserious, Anony?

frosbel: Next time bro, add the other part of the verse

"Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them." - Hebrews 11:16

OR

"For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." - Hebrews 11:10

what's funny? that the earth is a city?

obviously, fros has never experienced the real Holy Spirit, else he won't be talking about Him being just a force and not a person. had the deeper life form of godliness with no power. my sure view BTW

nl's theoloGISTS are still playing here. Goshen which day do you think God created crude oil?

I can bet you have many insects and rats to vomit should you seek such wet dream with TB

They knew that they were Pilgrims and they desired a better place, that is an heavenly.

this op wants to die young by all means

garrrri has blocked somebody's ears apparently.

@OP
You forgot to add "God is Omnipotent", "God is Omniscient", "God is Omnipresent", "Bible", "Posting on nairaland" to your list of shocking christian practices and ideas. Such a shallow and insidious thread.
2Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

2Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.