₦airaland Forum

JMAN05: soul there stand for one's future life prospect.

What do you mean by "future life prospect?" Provide proof that this is your current official teaching.

Do you teach that the soul is the body...yes or no?

If I provide evidence that your teaching is different from this now, you'll say it's past teaching.

JMAN05: Your turn. you say soul never die, how then is that soul destroyed in hell?

I haven't said anything about soul. This thread is for you to defend your false doctrines. It isn't for me to defend Catholic doctrine.

JMAN05: You have to wait a little for the official position.

Which one is truth in RCC? Purgatory, Popes infallibility, celibacy, white gown, titles, Mary in revelation, first, second and third unscriptural popes, a mother, yet virgin, imaculate conception, worshipping saints, image as talisman, Pope authorise fornication, yet infallible, Pagan title pontifex maximus, pagan constantine and murderer saint, transubstantiation, falsely "made" dia bible, genesis myth, Adam myth?

You call those unscriptural positions truth? try and be sincere to urself bro.

Waiting for the official position of the Heaven filled up in 1935" lie.

The Spirit bears us witness that the Catholic faith is truth and scriptural. Why do you condemn us while you claim you can't argue with people who claim the Spirit bears them witness that heaven isnt filled up...as againt your lies that it is filled up.

JMAN05: there is no need for official position here.

Then explain what you meant be the crap you wrote earlier and tell us if it is your private opinion.

So what actually happened? Did they change God's mind and make him offer more vacancies in heaven or did God change their minds and make them know that heaven is filled up?

But the reason I need you to tell me the official teachings is that if I bring evidence of your teaching that is contrary to this, you will start to lie that it is not current teaching.

JMAN05: later.

Waiting for proof that your statement below is your official teaching.

"The fact is that you can never say with certainty the number that has been anointed to be in heaven. You can do that to some, but not all. that is our position. that is why i ignored that one. it is still among the past i ve been talking about."

JMAN05: The bold. They do admit it. Read g95 6/22 page 8, 9.

Please give us the link to read that or post the text here. Let us see if they actually admitted making mistakes or they just tried to lie their way around it as usual.

We cant trust you. Perhaps you're lying again.

true2god: This is not a good answer. Can a JW marry a non-JW christian who is God-fearing and honest in all dealings? Yes or No.

@ JMAN05, Please answer his question.

We ask you about your previous lies, you dodge, saying it is not current teaching. Meanwhile, you dont provide any evidence that it is not current teaching.

He's asking you current teaching now, you're still being evasive.

chuqudy: Go and sit down. I did not create this tread because of you but for Catholics or non Catholics who are looking for healing miracles, deliverance from satanic bondage etc. These priests have something to offer. There are many other priests but here can't accomodate all. That was why I listed just 10. If all is well for you, there are many people that have very serious problems and need serious spiritual assistance. There are particular priests gifted with the grace of tackling such problems.

At the end of your OP, you asked "any objection?"

Most of the Catholics here have registered their objection.

We do not appreciate you reducing our faith to the miracle-seeking business that is pervasive elsewhere.

Our faith is far too deep for that.

I do not doubt your sincerity of intention, but your good intention is distasteful to the people you intend to help.

Miracles are good, but they are a means to an end, not an end in the themselves.

We Catholics dont seek God because we want miracles. We seek God because we are in love with him...and if he grants us miracles, fine.

Perhaps it's the way you put the title and the content that makes it so distasteful.

JMAN05: 1. So the unrighteous persons are going to heaven after ur "purgatory", even those who died as disobedient persons in Noah's day?

By the way, that doesnt show me purgatory there, hope u know? am just assuming.

Now from my reading, I dont think that place is talking about the dead, but the living praying on behalf of the living which he sees commiting sin. It wont be logical if we say it refers to the dead. it says, if u catches sight of u bro sinning, then you pray. You cant catch sight of a dead person.

What do u think?

2. 2 Timothy 4:13 KJV
The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee , and the books (biblia = bible), but especially the parchments.

Aha! You're the clown that believes every document is the Bible, even your voter's card.

JMAN05: Wow. that is a great sin. however, if the assumption is that it is voluntary, we cant say God will still take him as a son in heaven.

In the case of a white lie you said God will take him to heaven because Christ's death has made him righteous.

In the case of blowing a plane, you dont think God will take him to heaven.

Let me ask you the question a Protestant asked earlier (its probably even you),

What sins did Christ die for?

If it is all sins, why are you sure the saint that lied will go to heaven while the one that killed will probably go to hell?

Joyce2510: Purgatory is a lie from the pit of HELL. There's no such thing like purgatory and let me remind you my brothers and sisters that there is no BIG SIN and SMALL SIN. Sin is sin so no need of decorating or painting it because it's still what it is.

You are contradicting the Holy Spirit.

1 John 5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

adsonstone: are you cleverly/cunningly trying to avoid that question?

I never claimed that Kumuyi is Peter's direct successor but you claim Francis is so does the Orthodox christians claim their bishops is....so, who do we believe? I ask again.

You have to first tell me who it is that the Orthodox Christians believe to be Peter's direct successor, how they believe he is Peter's successor and how it conflicts with the Catholic position as you're implying.

I'm all ears.

adsonstone: I'm not the one giving conflicting positions.
Thats exactly how the passage puts it.

It mentions- Judgment and its reward--which remains unspecified in that passage.

The same passage further states that 'anyone that destroys God's temple will be destroyed'

You dont expect me to imply conclusion (regarding the reward) and assume it to be right.

I cant just imply Heaven as the reward.
Why: the passage states that those that have unburnt works will get that reward.....with which work will others get reward? Is it the burnt same burnt works?

Did the passage talked about the aftermath of judgement...Yes, no or you dont know?

adsonstone: before we start....
Does the bold mean that the 1000year (which you say is Christ indefinite) reign has started?

Yes.

adsonstone: If you mean actually has, then you are utterly wrong!
And if you think youre not, tell me.
Now, the whole twist.
Lets set things straight again.

First, we know the book of Revelation talks about the future (second coming of Christ and its aftermath) in the broad sense and not 'last days' before the second coming as you twisted (matt 24 and other parts of the bible talks abt 'last days' before the 2nd coming) though, Revelation talks a little about what we have through Christ as a result of our redemption.

The above makes no sense and doesn't refute my position.

adsonstone: did you not read that passage?
Thats exactly what is said not 'my tradition'.

You ascerted that Lazarus and the rich man hadn't been judged. Scripture doesn't say this. You're appealing to your personal tradition and that makes you a failed hypocrite.

adsonstone: no, the judgment itself is the first resurrection.

And here's your earlier statement:

adsonstone: It is a fact that they had to live(resurrect) to be judged and to live after judgement.

You're saying life=resurrection=judgement?!

Meaning 'they had to be judged (live - resurrect) to be judged and to be judged (live) after judgement.' --paraphrasing you above statements.

You're saying:

1. Those who live and reign with Christ for 1000 years are judged for 1000 years.
2. Only righteous people are judged.

ROFLMAO! Arent you hilarious?!

adsonstone: we'll still get there, you dont need to rush.

Oh! First you accuse me of shying away; then when post, you say I'm rushing. You're one hell of a hypocrite, arent you?

So where does the Bible say only those who didnt die avoid hades/sheol. Your personal tradition again?

adsonstone: have you changed your mind?
Have you forgotten that you said that there are some that will 'be sentenced to' go through some form of purification after the first judgment?

And I maintain that. Can you show me another statement of mine that says some will not be sent to purification from the 1st judgement?

adsonstone: hopefully, we'll get there.
I really hope you will not shy away before then and claim you're ignoring just as you did on the other thread.

You're the one shying away...while accusing me of shying away. I thought by now you should have brought your proofs.

@ JWs, do you still teach that Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael?

What is your current teaching...and please provide evidence.

@JWs

In Rev 22:12-13, Jesus Christ, the one who is "coming quickly", says of himself, " I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end". In Rev 1:17-18, Jesus, the one who "became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever", refers to himself as the first and the last. Rev 21:6, in speaking of God, says, "...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end ...". God is also referred to as the "first" and the "last" in Isa 44:6 and Isa 48:12.

Why do you say Jesus is not God since by definition of these words there can only be one first and one last?

Jesus Christ is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 9:6 ("For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us ... And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God ...". Jehovah is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 10:20-21. Yet, there is only one God (1Cor 8:4, Isa 43:10, 44:6)?

Why then do you say Jesus is not God?

@JWs,

If the soul is the body, why does Jesus make a distinction between the body and the soul in Mt 10:28?

Ukuts gp: so what business do u think i hv with infants. Give me reasons why i should nt celebrate christ birth u are blabbing

I have given you reasons why you shouldn't celebrate a pagan feast on Dec 25 instituted by pagans to celebrate their idols birthday.

I just dont know why you insist on following the pagans.

The business you have with infants is to leave us a legacy of truth, daddy.

Daddy, where and when did all Pentecostals decide unanimously on Christmas?

JMAN05: 1. we do not hold to all those teachings you stated. I dont even know where to start and where to end. ok, you can tell me the one you need our current position on.



2. we thought that the number will be complete in 1935. but after that year, some new people began to declare that the spirit bear them witness to be in heaven. You cant tell them no, neither can you say yes.

Why then do you condemn us when the Spirit bears us witness that the Catholic faith is the fullness of truth?

Besides, give me your official teaching on this 1935 issue with evidence.

JMAN05: It is also noteworthy that some of these people could be those who came from churhes into the truth. Some of them do change the heavenly thought with time cos in there church they cant reconcile the idea that a righteous person will be here on earth. but after getting the accurate knowledge that those who will be on earth are still righteous ones, they change their thinking.

So what actually happened? Did they change God's mind and make him offer more vacancies in heaven or did God change their minds and make them know that heaven is filled up?

Official teaching with evidence please.

JMAN05: The fact is that you can never say with certainty the number that has been anointed to be in heaven. You can do that to some, but not all. that is our position. that is why i ignored that one. it is still among the past i ve been talking about.

Please provide evidence that this is your official position. Thank you. One cant just take the words of your mouth to mean anything. You have been trained to tell lies. One has to handle slippery snakes like you firmly.

adsonstone: The bold is a lie. I never said that they dont see him as peter's successor, I mentioned that they have theirs who they also believe to be Peter's direct successor.
.....and if thats true, who exactly is the true successor?
Theirs or yours?

Maybe yours. Kumuyi.

adsonstone: I've told you my position on that.

You have given me conflicting positions. You ascerted "judgement alone." Then you said the passage talks about eternal damnation (which is the AFTERMATH of judgement. Later, you said "Judgement and its reward." And you said you dont know what "reward" is...meaning it could be heaven - AFTERMATH.

What exactly do you say the passage is talking of...judgement alone or judgement and its aftermath?

adsonstone: ....and who says it is definitely Heaven?
Hope you dont mind showing me.

Jesus already reigns in eternity (1 Cor. 15:24-27, Rev. 4 & 5) and that in this world His reign, established as a seed, is found already in the Church. This is the 1000 years, which is the Hebrew way of indicating an indefinite long time - in this case, the time between the first and second comings, the era of the Church, in other words the last days in the broadest sense.The Book of Revelation situates this era between the persecutions of the Roman antichrists of the first century and the final unleashing of evil at the end.

adsonstone: I asserted that they have not been judged because I know they cant be judged twice, one that will make them suffer and another that will take them to glory.

You are ascerting not on what the Bible says, but on personal oral tradition. You're a hypocrite because you proclaim Bible alone and try to force I who dont believe in in Bible alone to give you proofs from the Bible. Meanwhile, you cannot prove or disprove my point from the Bible. You have to dubiously resort to personal tradition.

There you fail!

adsonstone: Besides, read the bolded verse. It said 'they lived not'. It is a fact that they had to live(resurrect) to be judged and to live after judgement.

Hope thats been cleared.

Stop trolling. Even those who came to life did so after the 1st Judgement.

adsonstone: I agree.
Only souls of those that did not die.

Good. Not everyone goes to hades/sheol. So where does the Bible say only those who didnt die avoid hades/sheol. Your personal tradition again?

adsonstone: that has been cleared in my former post.
Its a certain implication, unlike the one you implied.

You cleared nothing in the former post. You offered a blunder, saying it's a fact that only the resurrected (that live) could be judged...when rather resurrection came after the 1st judgement.

adsonstone: By that, do you mean these?
1. All souls in hades= certainly heaven
2. Others in death and sea= heaven or hell

if thats what you mean, give a proof.

My position is: category 1 =heaven/hell and same with category 2

What kind of proof do you want? Proof from personal tradition like you offered for your position above?

My position is that: there are souls who did not live after the first judgement who will live after second judgement. Whether they are in hades or sea before the final judgement, I dont know. The passage supports/doesn't oppose this. It's enough proof.

adsonstone: All what you have been saying, I'll still prove it all to be false. I'm just going through this discussion with you to show you that you're still making mistakes in these false things.

Why are you telling me instead of going right ahead and proving me wrong?

adsonstone: I pray you see light though, I know its not easy.
You'll rather stick to a wrong teaching than be embarassed or come out to accept that you were wrong.

Next time you want to say this, look in the mirror.

loveroftruth: i think am Getting sick with with christian propaganda.

If atheist or such kind people are to be doing such, it will not have been surprising.

But christians doing such Na wa !

Will Jesus be doing such ?

Are you saying Jesus didn't speak out against false prophets like you?

He did!

loveroftruth: You can say that again.

Those that copy falsehood from disfellowship Jw to post here are the honest ones abi ?

It is Italo that is honest abi ?

This your statement here is the honest one abi ?

You that is honest, was Jesus words not "day and Hour" ? Answer and shame the father of lies and proove you have not been deceived by him. Am waiting for you to show that Jesus words was not "Day and Hour", if you dont, we then Know the liars.

Am waiting.

I have been quoting a lot from JW publications.

If what I'm saying is false, it means your organization is lying in its publications.

All Catholic Priests stand in persona Christi.

They are all just as powerful as one-another.

God bless you OP for your honest effort.

Ukuts gp: childish talk. U are older than this u know.

How do you know I'm not a child.

You should be ashamed even a child can spot you big lie about all Pentecostals deciding on Christmas.

When & where?

Nigerian children are asking you, old man.

chukwudi44: Italo pity this poor dude naa.I know sabi say you wicked reach like this.De bobo even claim say na ll pentecostal churches come chose the date chei nottin wey pesin no go see for nl

Nothing we no go hear o.

People just dey hide behind anonymity dey jam-talk.

adsonstone: Don't you know they have their own bishops (popes) as you may call them that they believe is equal to Francis
and is fallible.

You were wrong when you said they dont see Pope Francis as successor of Peter.

Even that is too much to admit?

The person wey swear for you to dey lie don die?

adsonstone: How many will I answer this?
I have answered thisbefore. It talks about Judgment and the reward that comes with it!

The reward is not specified again, as I said!

Are you maintaining that the passage didnt talk about the aftermath of judgement or not?

adsonstone: That's why you and the catholic church say its heaven, right?

What if the reward is the reign with Christ for 1000 years?

Then you and the catholic church are utterly wrong besides, the reward of heaven does not come until after general judgment of rev 20:13.

And who says the 1000 year reign after particular judgement isn't in heaven?

adsonstone: Sincerely, that's the reason. Revelation 20 states clearly that those in hades will be judged in the second judgment and makes no implication that they are judged in the first.

The reason above applies.
I don't imply conclusions from uncertain issues.

You say the passage doesn't say those in hades were in the first judgement...and it doesn't say they weren't. Why then do you ascert that they weren't? Haven't you implied conclusion from uncertainty? Or are you appealing to tradition?

5 - The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

13 - And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works.

Aren't "the dead in death and hell" in v8 part of the "REST of the dead that lived not" after their particular judgement in v5?

I hope you know what "the rest" means.

adsonstone: How ignorant can you be!

You make a mockery of yourself with that question.
In your own bible, is stated that those men you mentioned died?

There are souls that never pass hades/sheol to heaven. No?

adsonstone: To yourself and fellow catholic brothers, you av made a point right??

Hope you don't mind showing me where that passage says they will be casted to hades after the first judgment....truth twister!

Aww...poor you. Olodo! Verses 5 & 13 tell that story.

adsonstone: and thats contrary to the bible teaching that they will be judged and casted into the lake of fire if found unworthy!

By the way, is it you or the catholic church that put the names of the souls in hades in the book of life?- truth twister!

Its not contrary. Some will be found worthy who werent among the ones who had being reigning with Christ all along: the souls in purgatory!

adsonstone: That's contrary to bible teaching!!
Prove from that passage that they are sent to purgatory!

Or can't you prove it from that passage?

Again: verses 5 & 13.
.

Oh...Obadiah...

My brother, if you dey pass for road and from far you see me dey argue or quarrel with mad man, you no go think say me sef dey mad?

Talk true.

MEILYN: lwkmd. You funny die.... You no see thread wey Obadiah create for you? . Nah this poor guy you cum dey bash.

Let us imagine that instead of lying once, she blew up an airplane full of passenger once.

Will she go to heaven straight still...

JMAN05: I do not know the heart condition. ok lets assume he wasnt frequently practicing such act. but had no time to pray for forgiveness, he is going to heaven na. God knows that he frequently asks for forgiveness, but cant do so now cos there was no time.

Note that God declare them righteous though they are sinners. God wouldnt approve someone who takes His undeserved kindness as a certificate to go on sinning. however, it doesnt mean that we have the credential in terms of righteousness to be in heaven cos we are imperfect in body. It is just a grace from God.

@JMAN05,

I say whay JWs teach with evidence from your publication.

You say it is not your current teaching WITHOUT evidence that it is not.

I ask you if you teach that heaven got filled in 1935.

You pretend like you didnt see it.

How do we go about proving your teachings wrong when you dont own up to your teachings?

JMAN05: 1. Ya, we ve made mistakes and admitted it. But you claim your popes are infallible, can you say they are really infallible? Your answer pls.

We both know there are countless threads on Catholicism where we have been answering your questions. You can open another one on Papal infallibility.

This one is about JWs. It is your turn to defend your false doctrines. Why are you desperate to make it about the Pope. Is there something you're hiding. Was it the Pope that made you lie against God many times?

JMAN05: 2. Maybe, but I dont know how. Can you identify them?

If you are probably making mistakes, why do you go about condemning other people when you could well be wrong about anything and/or everything?

JMAN05: 3. We are not deterred by what people say. Many choose to stick to a wrong teaching because of fear to lose face. we dont do that. We are the ones who even publicly proclaim our mistakes. It isnt easy to do, but that is what humility and teachableness calls for. Who else will God like to use if not humble fellows.

Many times, you have lied about your false prophecies (not mistakes). A humble fellow doesnt lie and say it was God that said.

JMAN05: After all some can see that their teachings are wrong, even receiving internal criticism, yet they stick to it cos they fear the ambarasment it brings. But we are not like that. If catholic had been humble they would have changed so many unscriptural teachings that even their scholars criticize. Leading to different groups with contradictory beliefs in a single church.

How can you tell for sure who is wrong when you could be mistaken again?

JMAN05: As many are backwards, we are meters in the forefront in terms of bible understanding. and are still moving.

You could well be wrong again. Probably, you know nothing about the Bible.

damerry: It's hightime you opened that thread on "strategies of defending the catholic faith"
you can also drop it here if it's not worth opening a thread for..

My brother, infact now that you've said it, I'll work on it and open it tomorrow.

Ukuts gp: i am talking about christ birthday not easter. D catholic are always puff up, blowing their own trumpet as if they own everything in christianity, when they always bring shame to the name of christ by bowing down to statues in public.

Christmas o...Easter o... Na Catholic Church wey you dey call pagan start am. Why you come dey follow "pagans?" Your brother asco15 say we dey worship samiramis, you say we dey worship Mary and statues. How you take know say Dec 25 no be samiramis or Mary statue birthday?



Dem no write am for Bible.

You come dey lie lie say Pentecostals come to unanimous decision to celebrate Christmas. When, where?

Chai! Una lie lie too much for that chosen o.

Double post