₦airaland Forum

adsonstone: Following.

That conclusion is inaccurate.

The passage (1 Cor 3:13-15) talks strictly about Judgment (and reward) only. No aftermath.
Is that ok??

It should be, only, you earlier told me it talked about eternal damnation too.

If eternal damnation isnt the aftermath of judgement, then does judgement day last for eternity?

Please clarify.

adsonstone: I can't believe all what I'm seeing here.

Italo, can you see your brother?

Don't make me believe you were taught all these at church because what the bible teaches is:

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them
which despitefully use you."
Luke 6:28

So where did you learn all these?
Cos It's not Christ-like.

Perhaps he learnt it from your fellow Protestants who make it their occupation to curse Catholics day and night.

Hypocrites!

adsonstone: Examples of these doctrines:



These are the major ones that majority go after as you rightly said.

and others like:

- Flogging of Church members
- Not wearing shoes to Church
E.T.C




The shepard- The Holy Spirit/ Christ wants us to speak the truth In LOVE.

.....Not everyone coming up with his doctrine.
We must all seek (and know) the truth.

Congratulations!

Jehovah's Witnesses also think you're doomed for not believing that Jesus is Archangel Michael.

Pastor Chris thinks you are in error for regarding masturbation a sin.

Many Christians think you and Kumuyi are retarded for preventing people from watching TV.

Why should I believe you or take you serious when your fellow Protestants think you're crazy?

JMAN05: God is here talking about His Godship as being superior to other gods. when He asked that question He still has other false gods in mind. Just like when he asked whether any other God exists in verse 8. Other gods exists, but He is talking about His superiority.

Jehovah used Jesus to create other things after He created him.

Prov. 8:22-30
" Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,"

Scholars identifed this person as Jesus as wisdom personified in view of the similar statements made about him in other bible portions. Col.1:15-16

So somebody was with Him. Contextually, God was not referring to His other faithful spirit sons but to false gods.

LMAO! See long story for simple question.

You say someone was with him but you are afraid to mention who.

Anyway, God says he was alone.

You're either contradicting God or whoever was with him is him.

So who was it that was with him?

JMAN05: You are very blind.

1. which of the verses has a definite article in greek, the Isaiah or Revelation?

2. what is the implication in greek grammar?

After answering the above question, you can still be blind.

Keep deceiving yourself.



God--Is 44:6, 7: I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
7 Who is like me? Let them proclaim it,
let them declare and set it forth before me.

Jesus--Rev 1:17 I am the first and the last.

OLAADEGBU: Those were the good early days when the church still had good intentions.

There are people who thought the Catholic Church had bad intentions even then, and people who thought it had good intentions.

There are people who think the Catholic Church has good intentions now and people who think it has bad intentions.

Thankfully, these opinions dont matter much.

"I will be with you till the end of the age."

"And the gates of hell will not prevail against you."--Jesus. His opinion alone matters.

OLAADEGBU: It is unfortunate that folks have now taken Christ out of Christmas because of him.

Very unfortunate!

Even St. Nicholas would rebuke them for it.

Also unfortunate that many have now taken "mass" out of "Christ-mass."

mumumugu: Why is goodluck ebele jonathan missing from the list?

Maybe because him head no dey der.

From the American Journal of Psychiatry.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/Mobile/article.aspx?articleID=177228

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim’s social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics. RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found. CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

OLAADEGBU: Should Christians Celebrate Christmas?

Every year around Christmas time, serious concerns are voiced regarding the validity of celebrating Christmas. Some note that the origins of Christmas are pagan, others point out that the Bible overtly denounces Christmas trees as idolatrous, and still others suggest that Santa Claus is a dangerous fairy tale.

In response let me first acknowledge that when Christmas was originally instituted, December 25 was indeed a pagan festival commemorating the birthday of a false god. While this is historical fact, what is frequently overlooked is that the church's choice of December 25 was intentional. Instead of Christianizing a pagan festival, the church established a rival celebration. While the world has all but forgotten the Greco-Roman gods of antiquity, they are annually reminded that two thousand years ago Christ invaded time and space.

Furthermore, the Bible nowhere condemns Christmas trees as idolatrous. The oft-cited passage in Jeremiah 10:2–4 might at first blush appear compelling, but context precludes the pretext. Jeremiah's description of a tree cut out of the forest adorned with silver and gold and fastened with a hammer and nails so that it would not totter is a reference to wooden idols, not Christmas trees. In fact, Christmas trees originated in Christian Germany two thousand years after Jeremiah's condemnation of man-made idols. They evolved over time from two Christian traditions. One was a "paradise tree" hung with apples as a reminder of the tree of life in the garden of Eden. The other was a triangular shelf holding Christmas figurines decorated by a star. In the sixteenth century, these two symbols merged into the present Christmas tree tradition. Next Christmas you might well consider using the Christmas tree in the home of an unbeliever as a springboard or opportunity to explain the reason for the season from the fall in Paradise to redemption in Christ.

Finally, believe it or not, even Santa can be saved! Far from merely being a dangerous fairy tale, "Santa Claus" in reality is an Anglicized form of the Dutch name Sinter Klaas, which in turn is a reference to Saint Nicholas. According to tradition, Saint Nick not only lavished gifts on needy children but also valiantly supported the doctrine of the Trinity at the Council of Nicea in AD 325. Thus, Christians may legitimately look to Saint Nick as a genuine hero of the faith. This December 25 as you celebrate the coming of Christ with a Christmas tree surrounded by presents, may the selflessness of Saint Nick be a reminder of the Saviour who gave the greatest gift of all: "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13).

--Hank Hanegraaff | The Complete Bible Answer Book

For further study, see Paul Maier, The First Christmas (Grand Rapids: Kregel Publications, 2001). http://www.equip.org/bookstore/books/the-first-christmas/

"And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, 'Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. Today in the town of David a Saviour has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.' Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, 'Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favour rests" --- Luke 2:8–14

Just to emphasize two things:

1. "The Church" in the above post means The Catholic Church.

2. Yes. St. Nicholas is already in heaven.

Miley who? Pope Francis is Most Discussed Name on the Internet


I was intrigued and amazed to read on uCatholic that a study conducted by The Global Language Monitor has revealed that Pope Francis was the most discussed proper name on the internet, eclipsing secular leaders, global celebrities, and proper names of places, organisations, and movements.

Additionally, the Holy Father’s Twitter handle “@Pontifex” was the #4 ranked word. What? Not Miley Cyrus, Katey Perry, Kate Middleton, or Richard Dawkins? The Pope of Rome? Am I in some sort of time warp? What year is this, 1274?

When you consider the way in which secular society often tries to enforce the myth of the irrelevance of faith and religious leaders and the indifference of the common person towards religion, this news becomes even more of a revelation.

Clearly, despite the best efforts of the devil (and the secularist's), Pope Francis has impacted the daily lives of the people of the modern world.


The Top Names of 2013 Rank /Name / Comments

1. Pope Francis — The former Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the 266th Pope of the Catholic Church, born December 17, 1936 in Buenos Aires
2. ObamaCare – Five years after Obamamania, the president’s name is still in use though not always in a praiseworthy manner.
3. NSA – The National Security Agency of the US collects intelligence through clandestine means of both foreign and (to the surprise of many) domestic sources.
4. Ed Snowden – Edward Joseph Snowden, the former NSA contractor and CIA employee, who leaked classified United States, British and Israeli surveillance programs.
5. Kate Middleton — Officially, Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, the fashion and style icon, the future Queen of the Realm, wife of the Prince of Wales, and mother of Prince George of Cambridge.

The Top Words of 2013 follow Rank / Word / Comments

1. 404 – The near-universal numeric code for failure on the global Internet.
2. Fail — The single word fail, often used as a complete sentence (Fail!) to signify failure of an effort, project, or endeavor.
3. Hashtag – The ‘number sign” and ‘pound sign’ reborn as the all-powerful Twitter hashtag.]
4. @Pontifex — The Hashage of the ever-more popular Pope Francis.
5. The Optic — The ‘optic’ is threatening to overtake ‘the narrative’ as the Narrative overtook rational discourse. Does not bode well for an informed political discussion.

This has to be powerful and a good thing.

http://marklambert..com/2013/11/miley-who-pope-francis-is-most.html?utm_source=&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=catholiclisa&m=1

^^^Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

Ukuts has never read Luke 6:37.

Can a Jehovah's Witness please answer this question that Jehovah asks in NWT (Jehovah's Witnesses) Bible?

Isaiah 44:24: “I am Jehovah, who made everything.
I stretched out the heavens by myself,
And I spread out the earth.
Who was with me?

hisblud: do you understand what inbetween the line means in the context.




sure, if it recognise what is not yet born as "it", so also what is not seen by your naked eyes is referred to as "it"... you get my drift! In other words, you accept a word in one context and then reject it in another concept what do you call such?

Hypocrisy!

truthislight:

It is there in black and white.

Enjoy.

Peace.

Okay. They below is also there in black and white, not so?

Meaning Jesus is God.

italo: God--Is 44:6, 7: I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
7 Who is like me? Let them proclaim it,
let them declare and set it forth before me.

Jesus--Rev 1:17 I am the first and the last!

Sal C: Mortal and venial sin proved.

!!!

JMAN05: pickin give me example of a serving married priest.

Drowning man! Stop wasting my time. You fail!

http://www.esquire.com/_mobile/features/ESQ1005PRIESTS_180

There's the story of 5 married Catholic Priests.

Again, you fail!

Can a Jehovah's Witness please answer this question that Jehovah asks in NWT (Jehovah's Witnesses) Bible?

Isaiah 44:24: “I am Jehovah, who made everything.
I stretched out the heavens by myself,
And I spread out the earth.
Who was with me?

JMAN05: I ve shown the difference btw these two scriptures sir.

God--Is 44:6, 7: I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
7 Who is like me? Let them proclaim it,
let them declare and set it forth before me.

Jesus--Rev 1:17 I am the first and the last!

I'm not blind.

truthislight: @Italo Italo

If you had red that the "God of the prophet sends his angel in verse 6 and the bright norning star of the rooth of Devid sends his angel in verse 16, you would not be asking about who is coming in verses 12 and 20 as though they are talking about the same persons. Read it again, but well this time.

Meanwhile, what did you do below here?

What is this your scripture post saying ?



i cant reconcile with this your choice of Scripturs o!

Did your post present words that is not the truth ?

Again, what is the message you are passing ?

What i posted, was it not correct ?

Why is your bible referenc saying 'spirit ' instead of the God of the prophets ?



I cant see what you are trying to say up there.

Did you actually read my post at all so ? Did you not get the message of that post concerning that John 22

see it again here :



I dont know why your own verse 6 is suspect.

If we see the truth lets be bold enough to say this is the truth,

Well, enjoy.

What I am saying is not that they arent different persons. We who say Jesus is God know that.

What I am saying is that they also the same person. Do you understand that?

That is why Jesus would speak as the Father so many times in scripture.

Look at the passage and tell me when Jesus started speaking. When, according to you, the Father started speaking in v6, John said "and he said to me," indicating either another speaker had taken over from the angel or the angel was giving another set of revelations.

When, according to you, Jesus entered the conversation v16, there is no such thing. John simply goes, "I Jesus." So did Jesus badge in on the Father? Of course not. It is the same person that has been speaking all along. That why he emphasizes it by saying the same things as the Father and as the son all over scripture. That's why I referenced Rev 22:6 and Rev 1:1. They are saying essentially the same thing and its Jesus speaking in Rev 1:1. Then look at the end when John says: "Amen, Lord Jesus, come quickly. Why doesnt he say that to the Father? In fact he did! Jesus is the same as the Father.

Just look at Rev 1:8 too. Jesus is the one making the revelation to John so who speaks in v8. If it is someone other than Jesus, John should have introduced him.

Lastly compare Is 44:6 with Rev 1:17.

What do you see?

(I dont know why your verse 6 is different too)

italo: God--Is 44:6, 7: I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
7 Who is like me? Let them proclaim it,
let them declare and set it forth before me.

Jesus--Rev 1:17 I am the first and the last!

Italo-- SMH for JWs.

"Out of context" too?

macof: Enigma big liar, go read about the history of ur religion properly.

The Bible was compiled by Romans and modified by some other Romans who had claimed catholism

Romans were also the ones who compiled the Hebrew Bible and Tanakh(holy book of judaism)

Before the Romans the Torah was the only book Jews held in high esteem(even know they still do)

The Torah is believed by Jews to be Yahweh's direct message to Moses

Catholics, non-Catholic Christians, Orunmila worshipper...

...they all know say this bros na lie lie..

Big grammar no dey fool anybody.

God--Is 44:6, 7: I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
7 Who is like me? Let them proclaim it,
let them declare and set it forth before me.

Jesus--Rev 1:17 I am the first and the last!

Italo-- SMH for JWs.

adsonstone: how can it be achieved?

14.That we should be no longer children, TOSSED TO AND FRO AND CARRIED ABOUT WITH EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

"Christians" these days are even seeking EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE.

They keep going to and fro like sheep without shepherd.

While the Shepherd seeks for them, may they not be devoured by wolves in the wild. Amen.

truthislight: Hehehe, very funny a place.

@Italo

I wish to show you something below, so, cool down and read it and see if there is anything you will take out of it from this Rev 22.


Rev 22:6-13 talked about Yahweh sending his angel, then from verse 16 and 17 talked about Jesus the root of Devid also sending his angel.

see:


"And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. " (Revelation 22:6-13).
..........:..........
That ^ is talking about Yahweh that sends His angel.

After Yahweh sends his Angel, then Jesus sends his angel in subsequent vers 16 below:


"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:16-17).
..................

The almighty is not of the root of David.

Yahweh is not a morning star.

"The lord God of the prophet" is Yahweh.

@Italo

did we learn anything there ?

Key questions:

1. Who is coming quickly in verse 12 & 20?

2. Compare Rev 22:6 And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place

With Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

And adjuge who is speaking.

JMAN05: what does it mean? immortal soul?

Why cant you just answer what the Jehovah's Witnesses say the soul is?

You look for the flimsiest excuses to avoid questions.

This one is talking about your current teaching and you're still afraid to answer.

JMAN05: Does it not show that God is greater than Him? cos I ve heard that anyone gave the almighty a revelation to go and give to somebody.

Yeah right...just like John the Baptist I the greatest but still human like the rest.

The Father is greater but still God like Jesus.

"I and the Father are one."

Is it Archangel Michael that is one with the Father?

JMAN05: go to google play and update ur intellectual apps. It is outdated. look up though.

God - the one greater than him, whom he serves. Does God have any? yes or no?

Another dubious 'meaninglessness.'

God has God. Yes.

As Spirit has Spirit.

JMAN05: chai, I will receive insult cos of being sincere!!! If I ask you, are you a catholic or a christian. what will you answer? assuming you are a catholic.

A Catholic can easily give you a simple answer without putting you through the torture of making you ask it 100 times more or subjecting you to long incoherent meaningless posts.

I am Catholic.

I am a Christian.

Simple as ABC.

adsonstone: we have agreed that the passage (1 Cor 3:13-15) talks about Judgment....and reward.
Now, the bone of contention:

what is this reward and what is the 'saved as through fire'

you said reward= Heaven (aftermath).
I insisted that it isnt specified...so, I cant conclude.

'Saved as through fire'
You said purgatory,
I said judgment.

Of course we tested both and purgatory was found to be 'without sense' in that passage.

....and I have told you (not once, not twice) that I cant conclude cos it remains unspecified.
Perhaps, If I study more and gain more insight, there might be a conclusion.

.....by the way, have you cunningly bowed in shame by diverting to this topic?
What happened to all whats in the post you quoted?
You gave a reply not relating to what you quoted.

Please, just stop making me waste my time. If you cant answer my question, I will only attend to your points if/when I feel like.

Whatever you feel about it doesn't move me.

Is it accurate to say that you dont know if the passage is talking about judgement alone, or judgement and its aftermath?

adsonstone: we want to know who to believe.... The Roman Catholic or the Orthodox cos you're both Claiming 'successorship'

Why should we bother our heads when you have absolutely no regard for apostolic succession?

You believe in those who set up their private businesses and call it God's Church.

adsonstone: Well, as Italo said, what is true to you may be untrue to others......and people are proud of what they practise.....even 'babalawos'

If Catholics believe all these to be true and God-approved, and they're proud of all these then fine, I cant label anyone as 'hell-bound' but I will not cease to pray the prayer Apostle Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:17-18 for all christians.

20 - And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me;21 - That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.22 - And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one:23 - I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.

That is a good prayer to start with.

adsonstone: who it is they believe: their Patriachs (bishops)

how they believe:
they believe the church was built on Peter's confession of faith.
Their same bishops that confess the same as Peter is his successor and not different from him (Peter).

How it conflicts with your position:
you believe the church is built on a man- Peter

You believe He's first pope and see him as leader of the other apostles. They believe He's not superior to any of the other apostles....and that they're all equal....so as their bishops are today.
You believe Francis is the head- The church is on him and hes not equal to your other bishops...he's superior.

I'm open to corrections on catholic positions and pls, be kind to clarify the position if I've made any error

Please what is the significance of this Orthodox matter?