₦airaland Forum

adsonstone: who does your pope report to?
Tell me.

To the Church, even though he is the visible head, Peter.

Kumuyi reports to no one but himself. He is neither Peter nor Paul. He is a false teacher, not of the fold.

ajayikayod: Mr, d bible is not a yes or no letters. U study to know. I gave u an option for us to study all u do is give me a yes or no. Bad students do dt.

Its the easiest question in the world.

Where is 1 Cor 3:15 talking about...heaven, hell or earth?

Attempting questions is also a vital part of learning.

My teachers often started their lectures with questions - teasers. And I passed my exams.

Answer if you can, then go on to expantiate.

But if you cant answer, dont bother.

adsonstone: Paul did not state that.

Oh yeah? Maybe it was the infallible Kumuyi that wrote this then:

1Cor 15:29 - Otherwise what shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? why are they then baptized for them?

adsonstone: Though, we can reason and draw likely locations they can be (which may not be the exact).

By "reason" you mean the Nigerian street parlance which could mean "manipulate and twist to our favour." Right?

That's it up there, go ahead and twist it as usual.

adsonstone: Before we start that reasoning, I'll like you to answer this.

Where exactly is Abraham's bosom?
Is it heaven, or is it also in hell or maybe a place on its own?

Shouldn't you answer where the dead in the verse are before you ask me more questions?

adsonstone: Yes, people feel compassion in hell.

Reason: Jesus said the rich man was in hell....and we know he felt remorse and compassion.
Or do you want me to change what Jesus said?

The Greek word "hades" that was used in that passage doesn't just mean a place of eternal torment.

Hades is the standard translation for Sheol in the Septuagint, Josephus, Philo of Alexandria, and other Jewish works written in Greek.

Like other first-century Jews literate in Greek, early Christians used the Greek word Hades to translate the Hebrew word Sheol. Thus, in Acts 2:27, the Hebrew phrase in Psalm 16:10 appears in the form: "you will not abandon my soul to Hades." (this statement wouldnt make sense if hades were eternal). Death and Hades are repeatedly associated in the Book of Revelation.[36]

The New Testament uses the Greek word Hades to refer to the abode of the dead, a shadowlike existence forgotten by the living (e.g., Acts 2:31; Revelation 20:13).[37] Only[b] one passage describes hades as a place of torment, the story of Lazarus and Dives.[/b][Luke 16:19-31] Here, Jesus depicts a wicked man suffering fiery torment in hades, which is contrasted with the bosom of Abraham, and explains that it is impossible to cross over from one location to the other. Some scholars believe that this parable reflects the intertestamental Jewish view of hades (or sheol) as containing separate divisions for the wicked and righteous.[37][38] In Revelation 20:13-14 hades is itself thrown into the "lake of fire" after being emptied of the dead.

In Latin, Hades could be translated as Purgatorium (Purgatory in English use) after about 1200 A.D.,[39] but no modern English translations relates Hades to Purgatory. as 3 B

Like other first-century Jews literate in Greek, early Christians used the Greek word Hades to translate the Hebrew word Sheol. Thus, in Acts 2:27, the Hebrew phrase in Psalm 16:10 appears in the form: "you will not abandon my soul to Hades." Death and Hades are repeatedly associated in the Book of Revelation.[36]

...from Wikipedia

woky: Jesus christ him self don't even knw wen the world wil come to an end

Jesus doesn't know but Jehovah's witnesses always claim to know.

Then when the date comes and Jesus disgraces them by not showing up, they cook up another excuse.

The thing is: if a prophecy is false, isnt it from the devil?

JMAN05: My religion is not watchtower. I am a JW. And christianity wasnt founded by Russell but Jesus. He is not the founder of JWs, but they (not only Russell) sought to find the truth as apposed to pagan type of believe at the time. they werent establishing a new religion different from what Christ has established. He wasnt even alive when we began to answer JWs.

Secondly, I asked about the teaching of the witnesses not sin of any member. I can as well ask you, Has the priests of your church molested any child? yes or no?

Russell didnt molest any child.

I want ti conclude that you have no scriptural prove against what we believe. That is good.

It was Russel that started your organization. Stop lying.

ajayikayod: Well, u claim u ar to beg Mary to talk to Jesus so dt u can hav access to d Father. Mary herself dey rely on d blood which we all rely on.

Show me where we claimed we are to beg Mary to Jesus so that we can have access to the Father.

ajayikayod: Prove wat? Dt she needed Christ blood to be saved or dt she learnt at d Apostle's feet?

...that she learned at the apostles' feet. Prove it from the Bible.

ajayikayod: I wonder wat exactly u mean by "obeyed". If i assumed ur tot, then Jesus was fulfilling d commandment (Obey ur parents, honor ur parents) by obeying Mary.

All I know is that Jesus who is God always obeyed Mary. He even went as far as granting her request when it wasnt the appointed time for him to reveal his glory.

ajayikayod: Do u kno wat ds statement implies: KNOW WE NO MAN AFTER D FLESH? (11 Cor 5:15 - 18). Even Christ is not known after d flesh again, d lineage is now of d spirit. Jesus as d firstborn, we all are joint heir (including mary). Mary does d will of Christ now as we do also.



She wont be d first nor d last to be blessed. D blessedness was a fact dt at d period when Jesus would come, she was found innocent/available. Nothing special about her, Mary as a name of a person wasnt preplan to be d mother of Christ, d bible prophesy a virgin. Dt could hav been any available (true heart, God fearing) fellow.
Just like Judas wasnt preplan as d person to betray Christ, he only made himself available, yielding to d devil to fill d slot. If judas has refused to fill in someone else will.

In Matt 16, Peter was available 4 God's revelation of Christ and he recieved and Jesus declared him Blessed. Same Peter was available for d devil later on.

Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure (clean, ready by preparation) in heart, For they shall see (percieve, experience, recognise) God.

You say Mary is just like other women, nothing special.

The Holy Spirit says: blessed are you among women.

I will believe the Holy Spirit, not you.

I came on this thread to learn more about meditating on the mysteries of the Holy Rosary.

Now how can I learn anything in this free for all argument?

I will go away ignorant and my Rosary meditations will remain poor.

For some other person who might be weaker than me, he will go away and his Rosary meditations might remain non-existent.

The adversaries would have achieved exactly what they want...at least with me and that person.

Jehovah’s Witnesses may be "disfellowshipped" for a variety of reasons, such as attending a Catholic or Protestant church or receiving a blood transfusion. A disfellow-shipped Witness may attend Kingdom Hall, but he is not allowed to speak to anyone, and no one may speak to him. The others are to act as though he no longer exists. This applies even to his family, who may only communicate with him as much as absolutely necessary.

True or false?

HolyHolla: HolyHolla:
Quote: "So too, on the day when our works are examined, the fire of judgment will both PURIFY and remove. This will not affect our salvation, but it will affect our rewards. The theme of fire used as purification is also found in 2 Pet. 3:10-13."
See what I mean? He said purify the works for rewards, not the person. You put your words in his mouth again. Is there no difference? Please refrain from playing on our intelligence.

I see everyone who can discern the difference between doctrine of purification of persons by punishment in a Purgatory and Judgement of the works of the Saints for reward laughing at you.

I see JMAN05, adsonstone and many other Protestant and anti-Catholic brothers of yours laughing at you and mavister.

They believe there's no purification after death. They say Jesus blood is enough.

Will you join us in laughing back at your confused brothers?

In 1995 the Watchtower quietly changed one of its major prophetic doctrines. Until this point, they had maintained that the generation alive in 1914 would not pass from the scene until Armageddon occurred. Now that this generation has almost entirely died out—and Armageddon has not occurred and does not seem like it will happen immediately—they had to change their doctrine. Now, the Watchtower says that Armageddon will simply occur "soon," and it is no longer tied to a particular, literal generation of people.

True or false?

Knorr was succeeded as head of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, by Frederick Franz. He had been the Witnesses’ leading theologian, and his services were often called upon. For some years the sect’s magazines had been predicting that Armageddon would occur in 1975. When it didn’t, Franz had to find an explanation.

Witnesses believe that Adam was created in 4026 B.C. and that human beings have been allotted 6000 years of existence until Armageddon and the beginning of the millennium. This figure is based on a "creative week" in which each of six days is equal to 1,000 years, with the Sabbath or seventh day being the beginning of the millennium. Simple arithmetic gives 1975 as the year Armageddon would arrive. Franz explained that Armageddon would actually come 6000 years after Eve’s creation. But when 1975 came and went, the Witnesses had to "adjust" their chronology to cover up a failed prediction. They accomplished this by maintaining that no one knew exactly how long after Adam’s creation Eve came on the scene. Franz said that it was months—even years. Hence he was able to "stretch" the 1975 date to some indeterminate time in the future. In any case, Franz said that Witnesses would just have to wait, knowing the end is right around the corner.

When the final battle does occur—remember, it will be during the lifetime of "millions" of people alive in 1914, which means it can’t be too far off—Jehovah will defeat Satan and the elect will go to heaven to rule with Christ. But, following a literal interpretation of the number mentioned in Revelation, chapters 7 and 14, only 144,000 are among the elect. They will go to heaven as spirit persons (without resurrected bodies). The remaining faithful (Jehovah’s Witnesses), who are known as Jonadabs, will live forever on a renewed, paradise Earth in resurrected bodies. The unsaved will cease to exist at all, having been annihilated by Jehovah.

True or false?

Rutherford was succeeded by Nathan Homer Knorr, who was born in 1905 and died in 1977.

Since the Bible, as preserved through the centuries, did not support the peculiar doctrines of the Witnesses, Knorr chose an anonymous committee to produce the New World Translation, which is used by no sect other than the Witnesses. By means of former Witnesses, the names of the five members of the translation committee eventually came to light. Four of the five members completely lack credentials to qualify them as Bible translators, and the fifth member studied non-biblical Greek for only about two years.

The New World Translation was produced because it buttresses Witnesses’ beliefs through obscure or inaccurate renderings. For example, to prove that Jesus was only a creature, not God, theNew World Translation’s rendering of John 1:1 concludes this way: "and the Word was a god" [italics added]. Every other translation, Catholic and Protestant—not to mention the Greek original—has "and the Word was God."

True or false.

Rutherford said that in 1925 Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets would return to Earth, and for them he prepared a mansion named Beth Sarim in San Diego, California. He moved into this mansion (where he died in 1942) and bought an automobile with which to drive the resurrected patriarchs around. The Watch Tower Society quietly sold Beth Sarim years later to cover up an embarrassing moment in their history, namely another failed prophecy.

True or false.

Russell died in 1916 and was succeeded by Joseph R. Rutherford.

It was Rutherford who coined the slogan, "Millions now living will never die." By it he meant that some people alive in 1914 would still be alive when Armageddon came and the world was restored to a paradise state.

True or false?

Russell lied to his followers Jesus would return in 1914.

When 1914 had come and gone, with no Jesus in sight, Russell modified his teachings and claimed Jesus had, in fact, returned to Earth, but that his return was invisible.

True or false?

JMAN05: So the living will also go thru this purgatry which is in the invisible realm? or is the purgatry here on earth?

Purgation for the living will occur in this life and/or in the next.

He who is not adequately purified on earth will be completely purified in the next world.

I ve stated that the blood Jesus sacrificed is enough to cleanse the saints of any sin. no need to be cooked.

If the blood is enough and there's no need for purification, then there's no need to for the saints to be repentant of any sin, right? Yes or no?

"The blood is enough," you say.

JMAN05: What kind of blind arguement is that? I posted an interlinear, word for word as it appeared in the ₩₩₩manuscript and you are insisting. I am not here for blind arguement abeg.

You didnt post anything word for word.

My own interlinear says "day of the Lord."

Why should I trust yours with no responsible and accountable authority; just a multitude of confused denominations that continue to change beliefs and disintegrate?

JMAN05: What kind of blind arguement is that? I posted an interlinear, word for word as it appeared in the manuscript and you are insisting. I am not here for blind arguement abeg.

You didnt post anything word for word.

My own interlinear says "day of the Lord."

Why should I trust yours with no responsible and accountable authority; just a multitude of confused denominations that continue to change beliefs and disintegrate?

We are getting somewhere.

six one: And what if Kumuyi wasn't born c. 33ad? Does that mean he wont understand the scripture? You clearly showed that Catholic doctrin is based on tradition rather than the scripture.

Your doctrine is based on Deeper Life tradition.

For where does the Bible say Kumuyi understands the Bible.

Isn't it Kumuyi himself and adsonstone that say that?

That is oral tradition!

We Catholics believe in Scripture and Tradition.

six one: So someone born in this age cant have a better understanding of the bible? Smh and for the record catholic wasnt started by jesus

Where did I say someone in this age cant understand the Bible?

Yes, Jesus founded the Catholic Church.

six one: And what if Kumuyi wasn't born c. 33ad? Does that mean he wont understand the scripture? You clearly showed that Catholic doctrin is based on tradition rather than the scripture.

Your doctrine is based on Deeper Life tradition.

For where does the Bible say Kumuyi understands the Bible.

Isn't it Kumuyi himself and adsonstone that say that?

That is oral tradition!

We Catholics believe in Scripture and Tradition.

So someone born in this age cant have a better understanding of the bible? Smh and for the record catholic wasnt started by jesus

Where did I say someone in this age cant understand the Bible?

Yes, Jesus founded the Catholic Church.

HolyHolla:
Quote: "So too, on the day when our works are examined, the fire of judgment will both PURIFY and remove. This will not affect our salvation, but it will affect our rewards. The theme of fire used as purification is also found in 2 Pet. 3:10-13."

See what I mean? He said purify the works for rewards, not the person. You put your words in his mouth again. Is there no difference? Please refrain from playing on our intelligence.

Amen amen!

Catholic teaching on purgatory par excellence!

adsonstone: they're not different just as Paul's churches are not different from Christ's church. If you cant interprete for yourself, its advisable to go to the Church to be on the safe side

They are different.

Paul never had a Church.

Paul worked with Christ's established Church.

Kumuyi is on his own. Nobody sent him any message and he reports to no one.

He's just a CEO running a business.

adsonstone: Alright.
...but I guess that does not hinder you from asking the questions we were discussing before the biblical/non-biblical topic came in. Go through my posts and lets continue on that.

1. The baptism for the dead Paul was talking about...

...where were the dead?

Heaven or hell?

2. Do people feel compassion in hell?

[quote author=amara.lizzy%40y]Abeg shw sum respect by puting it Pastor kumuyi.[/quote]I will if you show me where the Bible says Kumuyi is a "pastor."

Or do you want me to just follow Deeper Life Church tradition?

JMAN05: That phrase never appeared in the bible. it reads for day will make evident. (interlinear).

Oh yes, it does appear.

13 - Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.

By the way, you've been invited to defend JW doctrines and practices.
www.nairaland.com/1506699/jman05-please-defend-jehovahs-witnesses

JMAN05: I asked a question and said, "Am I right?"

What you will say is yes or no. I didnt say i believe in it.

Now, what do you believe? that the body of the living will be transformed to be with the lord? will they pass thru ur purgatory before gaining perfection?

Pls clefify me if the above is not your believe about 1thess.4:17.

I believe that all with impurities will pass through purgation before entering heaven. Whether they are dead at the time of the second coming or alive; they will be purged either in this life or in the next (purgatory) or both.

What do you believe?

That people with impurities will enter heaven?

JMAN05: heb. 2:5

"For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking."

Rev. 20:6

" Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years."



I never saw the lord's day there.

1Cor3:13 - Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.

adsonstone: No, He is not.
We only know the right ones if they are in line with the ones He has taught revealed in the bible.

To whom do we go to interpret what the Bible teaches?

Kumuyi's Church of 1973 or Jesus' Church of 33?

HolyHolla: THE BLESSED CARDINAL SAINT JOHN HENRY NEWMAN? We are talking of great men!!! Not a man who himself declared that his theology was based on teachings of known pagans like Aristotle, Cicero, Hume, John Locke, and on Catholic Church-declared heretic like Origen? Now, it's time to holla! Is there any non Catholic and non Theological around here who's ever heard of that name; John Henry emmm, emmm, whatever... put up your hands.

(Counting)... 1, 2, ...

Now, is there anyone out there who's ever heard of Martin Luther?

(Counting)... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ... 1,234,567,889, 3,234,567,890..... and still counting.

That is what we mean by "great" men. I am a theologian, so I know about John Henry Newman, but tomorrow, go on the streets and ask the people around and get back to us, sir. You will need to carry a bell along to ring, because that name might not ring a bell for so, so many people.

In the Catholic Church, reputation is not decided by a majority vote.

I know that you Protestants protest that too.

six one: By your assumption dear Sir, those who did not listen to Noah are in purgatory. That implies that those people are heaven bound after they pass thru purification. the Bible made us to understand that those people were evil people mocking Noah and were cut off from the face of the earth.
You are also implying that after purgatory people still go to hell. Cos those that didn't listen to Noah aren't going to heaven if they are wicked people. Bros get of this thread and don't make another post. Cos its obvious you don't know a hoot about what you choose to believe.

He posted the verse and asked questions about it.

Why are you afraid to even attempt the questions?

1Where is this prison?

2.Why did Jesus preach to the souls in this prison?

3.Why was the good news preached to the dead?
"

@ loveroftruth,

It's step by step. We'll get there.

But is the OP true or false?