₦airaland Forum

Sal C: Lol... Enigma na my own separated brother. Since am involved, I trust he will be sincere for once.

Enigma no fall my hand oo.
*waiting*

I hear o. "E go beta, e go beta, na him make man tey for Lagos."--Nigerian proverb.

ajayikayod: Please can u show me dt in d scripture dt Mary and Paul didnt go to purgatory? D bible say all will be tested. Where? U said its purgatory. By d function of d Law, Mary and Paul arent pure by ur standard. D whole church was called saints in d scripture. Whether they received reward or not is another thing, d major info here is dt Mary and Paul also were in ur purgatory

Not all people will be tested, but their works which is judgement.

Afterwards, some PEOPLE (Saints)will receive their rewards immediately without wahala(Heaven)

Others will be saved o, but they will suffer loss and it will be as if they passed through fire.(purgatory)

Where are the dead in 1Cor 15:29?

When will you ever answer a question?

chukwudi44: STILL WAITING FOR ANSWERS I SEE THE HYPOCRITES ARE DODGING THIS BIOIBLE PASSAGE THA MOST SUCCINTLY DESCRIBES THE CATHOLIC DOCTRINE OF PURGATORY SMH FOR COWARDS

They are waiting for their oga to twist and manipulate it...

evergreen247: So you believe marry remain perpetual Virgin, do you read your Bible with open mind? Have come across this verse matt 12:46-50, 13:55 etc
..... The usual verse you ppl quote about wedding, Jesus called marry "Woman" what does that tell you?

What has "woman" got to do with virginity.

I heard Nigerians sell their kidneys in Malaysia.

Have they started selling their brains?

Sal C: I've known you and your style for quite some time now so don't try to use those pranks here. You dodged my question and want me to answer yours.

Well irrespective of who practiced it, we cannot deny that it was practiced and Paul made reference to it. Now can you be sincere enough to answer that simple question begging for an honest answer?

You are looking for a sincere answer from that one?

It would be easier for you to find a live dinosaur.

Well...except God is about to perform a miracle.

adsonstone: you have a 'wuru.wuru' explaination there.
How can the initial fire mean 'judgement' and the subsequent mean 'purgatory'?

....and pls, note.: the passage says 'as through ('by' in some version) #figure of speech...and not that anyone will go through fire.

You're arguing in my favour. You've pointed out that the initial is not the same as the subsequent.

Thank you.

Another thing to note, we dont necessarily say that the purgation means being in fire.

But even if purgation is being in fire, we know that it is God who judges, punishes in hell, purges in purgatory and loves in heaven...and God is a "consuming fire. "

adsonstone: If your explanation is true, what happens to those that will be condemned to hell?

Find them in v17.

17 - But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.

chukwudi44: i am still waiting for someone to tell me where this "prison" is and for someone to interprete these bible passages




1 Peter 3:19-21

New King James Version (NKJV)


19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[a] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ



1 Peter 4:5-6

New King James Version (NKJV)


5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


WHY DID JESUS PREACH THE GOOD NEWS TO THE DEAD? THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DEAD SINCE THE TIME OF NOAH'S FLOOD

And its been days now. No answer.

adsonstone: first things first.
You question cannot be answered directly because it does not have a direct answer in the passage it is.

I believe we're getting there.
May we continue to hasten our getting there.

Do you know where the dead are or not?

adsonstone: but the passage says everyman's work will be tested 'by fire' (in the same place) that some will suffer loss and others wont.

If that place is purgatory, Mary and some other saints will pass through without suffering any loss and we both know that according to catholic teaching, no one passes through purgatory without suffering loss.

Thankfully, the Bible never mentions that the Saints themselves will encounter any fire. It only says that THEIR WORKS shall be tried and revealed in fire (judgement). If the works abide, Mary and adsonstone will receive their rewards (heaven). Amen?!

If the works dont abide, then comes suffering loss and being saved as through the fire (purgatory).

adsonstone: we are getting somewhere...calm down, they will be answered.



I agree thats (sheol/hades translated hell) is not eternal because the bible confirms its not eternal.
Thank God we are getting somewhere.

regarding the bold, if it has not always been eternal then the hell the rich man was, is not the eternal hell.

Are we on the same page?

Isnt it unfair practice to leave my question pending after I have asked at least two times, only to expect me to answer this question you just asked?

Teach me, Holy Father. Teach me

^^^

If you deny that Mary made a request of Jesus and he granted it, I have nothing to discuss with you on that topic.

I will save my breath for men of integrity.

loveroftruth: I dont know what you mean by "False".

Do you mean the prayer for the kingdom of God to come for the past 2000yrs that has not come yet ?
Which one is false Italo.

And mr turn turn turner, can you address what i posted befor ?

That you should show where the Jw point to a "day" let alone an hour ?

Or you are not ready to eat your lies against the Jws ?

As a matter of fact, i was thinking you have bolls to psot doctrinal issues here, but no.

Why not try that and see Jman05 send you to the cleaners ?

It is no prayer. It was a prophecy that Jesus would come in 1914.

And it was false.

This one is also doctrinal matter. It was one of your teachings until Jesus disgraced you then you lied again that he had come invisibly.

More doctrinal issues are coming.

loveroftruth: Is the last 'days' a single day or an extended period of time ?

See :

"This know also, that in the last 'days' perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:1-5).
......................

What did you read there up there ? A day or days ?

The start of this periods have a starting point and ongoing.

Different prophesies all points to this extended perion of time. Yes, they all fall into this 'last days'.

It is so long that Jesus had to say that those days will be cut short.

See :

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. " (Matthew 24:22).
...............

Did you see that ^ ?

So, diferent prophesies fall into this extended days, but all in all, this prophesies let christ followers know the period they live in, that it is the end time, that you and your rcc are blind to this is not the fault of jws.

This end time culminate to the end.

You better start shinning your eyes.

But your people lied that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would come to earth in 1925.

Why did you people lie to us?

Or have they come and gone invisibly, like your Jesus?

ajayikayod: To help u from running away from all u r bein asked, lets assume u r correct dt 1 Cor 3:15 is purgatory (so it exist). Ar u ok?
Now We can look at my early post and apply ds too, or u can answer otherwise.

From ur claim on purgatory as d location of d fire trial, dt means Paul, Mary (ur beloved mother Mary), Ur Popes hav all been to d purgatory. If i draw further on ur believe dt d purgatory is meant to clean some sins. That means Paul, Mary, Popes hav all suffered thr becos definately no one is absolutely righteous (pure) in obeying d law.

Was Paul in purgatory?
Was Mary (ur beloved) in purgatory?
Was All ur Popes (Visible head) in purgatory?
U, how long do u think u will burn thr with d way u ar going?

1Cor3:15 doesnt mention that everybody will suffer loss and be saved as through the fire.

Indeed, v14 shows that some will receive their rewards immediately, without any loss or hassles.

Mary and the Saints (known and unknown) fall into this Category.

As for the Popes, just like the rest of us, some of them are certainly Saints, the others could be Saints, in purgatory or in hell.

Maybe you can help tell us where the dead in 1Cor15:29 are.

adsonstone: a piece of advice for you- dont misinterprete me, if you dont understand, ask me before concluding.
Conclusion after misinterpretation is always false and the end result is a lie.

I said 'Paul did not state that' after your question which read 'where are the dead (Paul was talking about)'

the answer clearly meant that Paul did not state where the dead he was talking about were. Understood?
....and not the above conclusion you drew due to inability to comprehend.


yawns....


now that you understand what I wrote first (I assume), you should also understand the next.

I am asking you, not Paul. If you dont know, say so. Where are the dead in 1 Cor 15:29?

If they were in heaven, would they need the baptism?

If they were in hell, would baptism be of any use?

Pls answer those questions.

adsonstone: to justify Purgatory, Italo and Sal C have gone back to the greek word translated 'hell' in that passage which truly is sheol or hades which means 'abode of the dead' (translated Hell) and Jesus himself refers to it as a place of torment.

To link it with Purgatory, they have gone to the Latin meaning which says its purgatory.

Now is purgatory and hell the same?
No.
Catholics teach that souls in purgatory are all heaven bound.

The bible teaches that people in hell will be judged and anybody that his name is not in the book of life will be condemned into the lake of fire (study Rev 20)

we will go through this study and find out if purgatory (as taught by the catholic church) truly exist.

It is not Italo and Sal C that wrote the Bible in Greek and Hebrew. It was the Holy Spirit.

Hades/sheol have never necessarily meant the place of eternal torment. You must accept that. If it is not eternal, how can it be the heaven/hell you speak of?

obi alfa: Meaning you can't answer the question. There's no need for any argument.

I answered. I said "I DONT KNOW. But I do know that Mary is like God because the Bible says we will be like him when we see him as he is. "

That's an honest answer.

It is you who cant answer it with proof.

ajayikayod: Was Mary part of d early church?
Was Mary d head of d early church?
Did Mary obey d instructions of d early church?

U choose ur answer, I ve got better things to talk about in scripture than d folly of exalting or praying thru Mary which a kindergarten bible student knows its lies.

Pls, i m not telling u to believe wat i told u, hold fast to watever u believ. Its ur lot.

Why are you unable to answer my questions yet you ask more questions.

You never answer questions, even on the other thread.

What are you scared of?

obi alfa: It would just be very simple if you answered the simple question the op asked by a yes or a no.

I'd rather not waste my time arguing with someone who wants proof that Mary made a request to Jesus.

If such an insincere debater declares that to mean "I am ignorant and unable to refute truth," I am not worried about that.

I'd only be worried if a sincere person were saying that.

Thanks for your concern.

Talking about the OPs question.

I dont know. But I do know that Mary is like God because the Bible says we will be like him when we see him as he is.

Can you answer the OPs question with proof?

^^^

As usual, you get your devilish lies from your dumb and manipulative interpretation of the Bible...

...like when you lied that Jesus would come in 1914.

^^^

I will remember you as the one who argued against purgatory, yet agreed that there is purification after death by fire.

Amen! Alleluia!

adsonstone: Display of ignorance after being unable to refute the truth. Smh

When someone avoids you, it could be because he is ignorant and unable to refute the truth. Yes.

But have you ever thought that it might be because he has found you ignorant yet unwilling to accept the truth?

Is that not a good reason to avoid someone?

loveroftruth: Unlike you, i have a copy of the 1975 publications.

The Jw said that there is always soomething about the 7th with God.

Eg, in the bible, the sevent day = a sabath, seven creative days, God rested.

So, the publications ask "after 6000yrs, what else ? Christ milenial rule ?"

that ^ question up there that are living in constant expection of God'skingdom and praying for it daily and preaching about it, it is a seriouse thing since to them, God cannot lie.

Just like Jesus apostles had been in anticipation of the kingdom and asking if christ was restoring the kingdom when ? That made Jesus to tell them that the "day and hour" no one knows, Jw have the earger anticipation for that kingdom.

And the bible says that christians should be and stay awake so that that day does not catch them as a theif, the jw are ever awake, and paying attention to the signs of the times.

If you are now translating that question to mean that jw say they know the "Day and Hour", cant you see the lie ?

Keep living your life as though the kindom of God will not come again.

The jw never fixe a date at 1975, it was a question of anticipation, that you are always looking for what to grab against the Jw is your business. Till tomorrow, the jw are still in anticipation of the kingdom of God.

This are bible portions that advises christians to be awke to the coming of christ.

Read this:

"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[color=#990000] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.[color=#990000] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us be watchful and be sober." (1 Thessalonians 5:4-6).

And this:

"For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." (Revelation 16:14-16).
..................................................

Jw are ever watchful and in anticipation of that time so as to watch people and themself, can same be said of catholics ?

You're claiming it is the Bible that said the 1914 generation would witness Armageddon? !

Then in 1975, when the Bible saw that the 1914 had died out, it suddenly changed its story.

ajayikayod: u got me hav a feeling dt u dont study ur bible, u only hold to wat u r told and d lifted scripture given to u. U asked for honestly, u really need to do d same wit urself. D issue of Mary is so clear and explicit in d scripture yet u prefered holding to doctrine of men above wat d scripture says.

Thr is no need for argument here wit u because i ve seen dt u ar just adamant to ur hold irrespective of wat d bible has to say.
Mary was part of d early church which had leaders (Apostles) dt tot they. Mary was never given any special recognition than others. Her name was as silent as Magdalene name in d epistles.

U believe in d Holy Spirit? dt same Spirit tells u dt we are new creations (In Christ), changed lineage, changed parents, no more after d flesh but d spirit. i m struggling to believ u really kno d Spirit u believe whether it's HolySpirit.

If I have told a lie or misrepresented the truth, please point it out.

It seems you just want to force me to accept your personal fallible interpretation and opinion of scripture even when it doesn't make sense.

You are unable to show me where we said you must go through Mary to get to the Father...

...and you cannot show me in the Bible where Mary learnt at the feet of the apostles.

Mr, do you believe in Bible alone or are you telling me these things based on your personal oral tradition?

adsonstone: I'm interested in this statement.

Italo, hope you dont mind showing us from your bible where Mary 'requested' and not 'reported'

Clear road.

ajayikayod: Dt showed in all ur post. But a bad approach to d scripture. Go study bro and stop treating d scripture lik ur school materials, u ll fail excellently.

If you cannot answer the question, please stop bothering me.

six one: And why is italo dodging this post? Too complicated for His brain to comprehend?

I am simply awaiting his response to the question I asked since page 1.

It's been ages now and he is yet to answer:

Where is 1Cor3:15 talking about?

six one: Which visible head Peter? By what means? Reincarnation? Was peter called father in contrast to what Jesus taught that no religious figure should be called father on earth? Your ignorance is really increasing

You are the ignorant one, dear.

Matt 23: 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

Did you see that? Not just religious figure. ANYONE!

Yet Paul called the Jews "brothers and FATHERS."

Why? Because he was Catholic, not a Protestant that would protest against of things he doesn't understand.

@ Jehovah's Witnesses,

Since you claim you got all these your devilish and false prophecies from the Bible; arent the rest of your teachings which you claim are from the Bible too devilish and false?

Whats the difference?

loveroftruth: The bible said in the Book of Hebrews, that the "prophets of old awaits a city having real foundation in the kingdom of God", if Rutherford faith in the fulfilment of that prophesy was so strong that he went preparing a place for them, i dont know.
but such kind faith cannot be a sin, faith in the word of God.

If the popes have half as much faith in the word of God, they would have been preaching about God's kingdom, but no, they dont, they are the rulers of this current world that the bible said that satan is its ruler.

Do you know what the harlot driving the wild beast in revelation means ? You dont i supposed.

In this same world, Jesus christ was offered kingship, he refused and ran into the mountain.

Satan also offered it to Jesus, but he also refused, but your pope and you RCC, can they say the same ? Judge for yourself.

I for one still keep on praying every day for "thy kingdom come" as Jesus says we should.

Maybe, we should laugh at Jesus, that for the past 2000yrs, he had asked us to pray the same prayer till date and the kindom is not yet here, should we laugh at Jesus like atheist do ? You be the Judge.

But i will never stop praying for God's kingdom to come even though you have stop, or that your rcc have turned that kingdom to be in this satan world, but the bible says, when the kingdom comes, there will be no more death, take note.

That ^ is what faith can do, stop laughing at men of faith like Rutherford. He was not a thief.

This is not faith in God's word. This is faith in your own devilish misinterpretation and adulteration of God's word.

If it was actually what God was saying, it wouldn't fail.

Does God's word fail?

@loveroftruth, can you answer these clearly and honestly?

1. Did your orgainization prophesy that Jesus would be back in 1914? Yes or no?

2. Did Jesus come back in 1914? Yes or no?

3. After the expected coming, did your organization say the Jesus had already come and gone in 1914 invisibly? Yes or no?

adsonstone: who does your pope report to?
Tell me.

To the Church, even though he is the visible head, Peter.

Kumuyi reports to no one but himself. He is neither Peter nor Paul. He is a false teacher, not of the fold.

He is just the sole-entrepreneur to his business empire.