₦airaland Forum

Pipsland78: This dude is really funny. Nowhere in the verses quoted is it suggested that any sin will be forgiven in the world to come. So how did he come about the idea of sins being forgiven in the afterlife?

People should stop assuming and misinterpreting the Bible .

With due respect, if this is your inference from Matt 22:32, what you need urgently is an elementary grammar textbook, not a Bible.

chocopearl: Ngige and Ifeanyi Ubah were NEVER at dat crusade ground on d said day, pls get ur facts right.
And for CAN banning campaign in churches thats a very good development, the Rector of the Basilica of the Most Holy Trinity(the mother church in d diocese where dis incident occured) warned all his parishoners last sunday in all masses dat he doesn't want to see any group holding any political gathering within d church premises. He even went ahead to say dat he doesn't want to see anybody wearing any political ''aso ebi'' within d Basilica premises. So u see dis is nt abt CAN and it's members and non members is jst d right thing to do.

Catholic parishioners will listen to their Rector, not one CAN man.

@ try69,

Let me advice you: that guy will not admit even the glaring truths you'll present him.

You'll just be wasting your time.

That's someone that says "The Church in Rome (probably Catholic) compiled the Bible in the 4th century.

That's some who insists that men like St. Jerome weren't Catholic despite all the evidence in their writings and works that the were.

That is someone who claims he and his Deeper Life Church are infallible and they see the Bible as the final authority yet they cannot agree on what the Bible is.

Dear Catholic,

Why do I have a feeling that the devil is glad that we are arguing with the adversary instead of sharing the graces from "The Meditations on the Mysteries of the Holy Rosary?"

adsonstone: Dont misquote me, I never said sins will be forgiven up there.
It seem you forgot your question, you said 'where is this place that people suffer loss and are saved as by fire' and my answer was 'where the 'judgement will be done by God.' How does that contradict?
Literaly, that passage says a man's work will be burned (not the man) and he'll suffer loss (which is in line cos wen one's work is burned, itz a loss to him) but he'll be saved (I dont even think youll xpect him to burn with his work)-thats straightforward (literaly)

You mean some people heading for heaven will suffer loss after this life?

If yes, it is that state of "suffering loss" that we Catholics call purgatory. No one suffers loss in heaven...and no is saved in hell.

adsonstone: I only helped you do what you were already doing since nothing is hard for you even implying(infering) what Christ did not say from what He said. I did not put it down to you.

Matt. 12:32 clearly implies that there are sins that will be forgiven in the world to come.

I dont know why you are fighting me over words that aren't mine but the Lord's.

adsonstone: No, I wont.
Why?
I'm not in the position to give you that.

If you're not in a position to give a more guided study than mine, what then are you doing trying to give a more guided study on the same 1 Cor 3:15 above?

Or perhaps you wont because you haven't found Enigma to teach you how to twist the verse.

adsonstone: intead of referring me to this, I think you should refer me to someone God punished after Christ died for his sins.....that would be better.

This is sufficient!

Your question was:
Concerning the bold, if you are still punished (temporarily) on earth (and even after death) after you've been forgiven, then what exactly is forgiveness?

That shows you what exactly (God's) forgiveness is.

asco15: You honor her by making her images, bowing down to her images, kissing and hugging her images, offering novenas to her, dedicating the month of May nd Oct. 2 her, by praying 200 hail mary (20 decades) to her daily and by wearing her images in form of chaplets, medals and scapula on ur body, and u claimed to be honoring her. U gave her all titles in ur various litanies and sing her songs daily and u call all dat honor?
By words u may be honoring her but by actions u r worshiping her. What different are u with wat is written in Jer.44:17-19, Rom.1:23,25.
Why practise wat d bible condems in Ex.20:4-7, Deut.5:7-9, etc. The roman catholic church has been hijacked by d roman god samiramis aka queen of heaven.
Run 4 ur life as i did.

I challenge the enemy of truth who accused Catholics of "haunting" asco15 to provide a quote by any Catholic that "haunted" or attacked asco15 before this attack of his on this thread.

JMAN05: Yes, but we cant be certain which one is the truth cos it cant be proven. So to the one who has the prove, he still believes he is correct. So you cant come and say 'hey, you are wrong', and you expect him to believe. Truth is proven.

Oh! Thanks be to God. You have seen the folly of your previous position.

See how long it takes and how hard it is to get you to be truthful.

So if you agree that your interpretation could be wrong. Then when I said "But anything that contradicts YOUR PERSONAL FALLIBLE INTERPRETATION of the Bible is not necessarily false." (Meaning it is possible for one to contradict your interpretation and be right) I was right. True or false?

JMAN05: the fact is: If you want to follow the bible and bible alone, dont follow catholics. They themselves are aware of that.

And even the Bible never said "Bible alone." It never even said "Bible."

Mary, the apostles, Stephen, Timothy...

...All these holy Christians never followed Bible alone.

We Catholics will rather emulate them than follow Jehovah's Witnesses who changed their Bible to say "Jesus is a god" like sango and amadioha.

adsonstone: sure, you cant claim youre forgiven and still choose to live in sin.

Concerning the bold, if you are still punished (temporarily) on earth (and even after death) after you've been forgiven, then what exactly is forgiveness?

You surely have not read how God forgave David yet made him pay for the sin.

adsonstone: Answer: where judgement will be done by God.

To start with, we both know that if sins are not forgiven here on earth after Jesus' death and resurrection, then the sacrifice is a total waste of time. Perhaps, He needed not to come here on earth if sins could be forgiven somewhere up there. (theres no debate if you disagree).

You already answered that these sins will be forgiven where judgement will be done (up there). That is contradictory to the rest of the above. Sort yourself out.

adsonstone: The matthew scripture, interpreting literaly, following your analogy,
it would mean;
1. There are some other sins that will not also be forgiven in the world to come.
2. There are some that will be forgiven in the world to come (as you said)
3. There are some other sins that wont be forgiven in this world.

I hope thats right.
....and if 3 is right, which sin exactly did Christ's death pay for?

Dont put it down to me. It was Christ who said so.

Matt 12:32 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

adsonstone: For the 1 Cor scripture, I recommend a more guided study as I perceive that this is the most misinterpeted verse in the bible.

That is why we are here. Give us the "more guided study," if you can.

skydeexie: I have a few questions for the 'purgatarians':
1. Did Jesus ever taught purgatory even remotely or alluded to the fact of its existence?

Yes.

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8 ) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.
Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.
Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

skydeexie: 2. The dying thief who asked the Lord Jesus Christ for pardon and to remember him in His coming kingdom, is he in purgatory now?

I dont know if he is there now or in heaven now. But I know that Jesus said he would be with him in paradise that day...and Jesus did not ascend to his father that day.

skydeexie: 3. Where are Moses, Elijah and all the other prophets of old, are they in purgatory including Mary the mother of our Lord?

These people are surely in heaven.

Now can you answer these questions?


Matt. 12:32 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

That verse clearly shows that there are some other sins that can be forgiven in the world to come.

Since there's no forgivess in heaven or hell, where in the world to come are sins forgiven?

1 Cor 3:15 - If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Where is this that people suffer loss and are saved as by fire?

purpinkx: no one comes unto the father except through me !

Yes, yes, dear friend. We Catholics believe that. But we have a question.

Q 1: How did the couple at the wedding in Cana get to the Father.

Our answer: Through Jesus.

Q 2: How did they get to Jesus?

Your answer? Through _ _ _ _. (Fill in the gaps)

Penboy: Will you guys be humble enough to know the truth about purgatory?? Is purgatory found in the bible or is it another doctrine of man?? 1 tim 4 vs 3-5. What is the origin of purgatory?? Satan once told your fore grandparents : "is it really true that you will after eating this fruit? You will be like God." Today, he has twisted that same lie to we, Adam's grandchildren by saying : 'Youre grandparents didnt die, they just went to enjoy somewhere or suffer somewhere as the case maybe"! Ezekel 18 vs 4 say's : a soul that is sinning, it itself will die. <not go to purgatory>. Does the teaching of purgatory underscore's jesus teaching of resurrection as found at john 5 vs 28,29? The wages of sin is death, not life inside purgatory. When God told Adam : 'from dust you came and to dust you'll return, was there water in his mouth? Or was Adam not the first sinner?

Purgatory is not for those with sins that lead to death.

Purgatory is for those whose sins do not lead to death.

1 John 5:16 - He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask, and life shall be given to him, who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death: for that I say not that any man ask.

These people's sins dont lead to death but they need purgation to enter heaven.

You need to first understand purgatory before you argue against it.

adsonstone: Your analogy fails terribly.
Why?
Reason: God is not a man, He can never be deceived or lured to do something.

Okay?

No. It doesn't fail.

John 2:3 - And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine.4 - And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.

Jesus -God clearly said it wasnt the appointed time by God for Jesus - God to reveal his glory.

Yet Jesus - God went ahead and did just that at the request of his mother Mary.

But then, this thread is about purgatory. Some people are trying to deviate because they can't answer the questions we ask about purgatory.

adsonstone: As for the topic;

I thank God I'm not vunerable to cheap and evil deceit of darkness!

@Italo and other catholic brothers, the topic is open for a biblical debate if you dont mind. Show interest by answering these two simple questions if you believe in purgatory.

1. What happens to the people in purgatory afterwards (are they all heaven bound)?
2. If they are heaven bound, who releases them into heaven and when is or will this be done?

Everyone in purgatory is heaven bound.

God releases them sometime between their particular judgement when they are sent to purgatory and the general judgement when all those in purgatory are received into heaven.

You see how clearly I answered your questions?

Now please answer me the same way.


Matt. 12:32 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

That verse clearly shows that there are some other sins that can be forgiven in the world to come.

Since there's no forgivess in heaven or hell, where in the world to come are sins forgiven?

1 Cor 3:15 - If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Where is this that people suffer loss and are saved as by fire?

passion007: Italo, good job! Unfortunately, your co-debaters are either foulmouthed or frivolous.

Your argument is flawless, and I can see how you aimed to bring the answers from Amara but she's awfully tetchy, and would rather spit fire than answer your queries.

Thanks. Unfortunately, that's what we're lumped up with. It is refreshing to know that there are still people who believe in reason.

[quote author=amara.lizzy%40y]In d world to come mean anoda generation afta dis generation and nt purgatory. So ur bible quotatn did nt correspd wit purgatory. take it or live it notin lyk purgatory.[/quote]In the world to come NEVER means another generation.

You see that you cannot handle truth.

In the world to come is surely the life after death.

Sins can neither be forgiven in heaven nor hell.

Only in purgatory!

What about 1 Cor 3:15?

Where is it talking about? Another generation?

CAN are just trying so hard to be relevant since the Catholic Church rubbished them.

They know very well the the Catholic Church has never and can never be answerable to them.

They know very well that they have never and will never had any power to sanction even the smallest Catholic parish...not even the tiniest Catholic society.

They cant even sanction the smallest gateman in a Catholic Church.

That how irrelevant in this matter they are.

obadiah777: dont you have a virgin somewhere you need to be bowing down to ?

Dry!

[quote author=amara.lizzy%40y]Ur comment did nt in any way show an evidence to existence of purgatory,notin lyk purgatory. I knw say na dysame pple.[/quote]You failed to answer the questions I asked you.

Where is 1 Cor 3:15 talking about? Heaven or hell?

Where is it that sins are forgiven in the world to come as Jesus implied?

obadiah777: yeah you worship the virgin mary and you think you are right thinking ? lmao. deluded fellow

I only take the opinions/insults of people I have adjudged to be right-thinking serious.

Thank you.

Chukwudi and Peter!

obadiah777: i suggest you go to this thread. they are talking about people with your kind of attitude.https://www.nairaland.com/1504466/helping-most-nigerian-women-end

I take advice from only people I have ajudged to be right-thinking.

Thank you.

obadiah777: that wasnt what you were saying when you were in my pm box begging and crying like a lil girl for me to release you. you seemed so humble and polite then ? what changed ?

"Title: pls unban me.

Content: please help unban me. I was banned by the anti-spam bot."

If that sounds like a crying little girl, then you have a lot to learn from little girls, old man.

That is what is called courtesy. Not a sign of worship. Not that I didnt know it was your duty.

Humility and politeness...perhaps they mean stupidity in your dictionary, not mine.

Alfa Seltzer: I know you were confused but you just confirmed it for others. I am not god nor my god. I am just me.

You are your own god. You decide your dogma and believe it is the one true doctrine.

Alfa Seltzer: Can't you be yourself? Why must you attach yourself to something else or someone else's ideas?

You do that too. Everything your say, you were taught by someone.

JMAN05: hahahahahaha italo, my brother, the PERSON IN QUESTION will believe is right. but you cant say he is wrong cos you cant prove it. if you do, that is a claim. He can even say that you are the one who is wrong cos he has his prove.

My dear, without proves we all can claim we are right. I dont even know why you argue with people. why dont you accept that they are correct? on the other hand, I can come and say, "hey! catholics, you are wrong by praying to God". To me i think I am right, to catholics, they believe they are right, but two of you cant be right, one must be wrong. how then can we know?

Prove your case, let me prove mine. In all, we know who is right. You must have a reason for your faith na.

If you cant prove me wrong, then why wont I believe that I am correct? after all I have a reason for that belief, and I ve not seen any good reason to believe the opposite.

The jews thought they were correct, but see how the early xtians showed them to be wrong. read acts 17:3, acts 18:28. without proves, the jews can claim to have the truth.

If you dont have the capacity to prove him wrong, and his believe is based on the word of truth, the bible, why will you want him to believe that you who cant prove him wrong from the word of truth is correct? Even when you yourself is fallible but the bible is the word of truth? listen to urself.

You cant just come and say "hey, you are fallible, as such you are wrong". I can equally say the same to you, afterall you are also fallible. So we will be dancing azonto round about. "hey u ar wrong", "hey u are wrong". abeg no kill me with this funny submission abeg.

JMAN05: Of course, to me, I have the truth cos you cant prove it wrong. Your believing you have the truth without proving it, is hilarious. But why are you laboring to prove other people wrong?

If I say, ITALO, christians shouldnt pray, so italo, I have the truth, not so? no matter your proves, I stand on my believe that no one should pray. so you will believe i have the truth? then dont argue anymore.

My good friend, stop beating around the bush.

Is it possible for an opinion to be false, even though it hasn't been proved wrong? Yes or no?

vickyO: How am I supposed to know? Am I God? I guess you've seen her in heaven cause of your surety.

If you dont know where she is, how can you tell if she intercedes in heaven or not?

Do you suddenly become God when talking about intercession?

Also, why would "all generations call her blessed" if she is in hell?

Do Christians refer to people in hell who have been eternally separated from God as "blessed?"

vickyO: you are, it's like interceding but Jesus is the only resurrected being who can do that.

Where did the Bible say this? It's just your personal opinion, isnt it?

MEILYN: erm, but we've answered her question now. Watin they vex you now . Yea the truth is bitter.

Thank you for showing how sensible you are.

obadiah777: is this the thanks i get after realeasing you from spambot 20 minutes ago? and people wonder why this world is cold cruel and harsh. no ounce of being thankful

Thanks. I didnt know who released me. I complained to several people.

But then,

1. You didnt do me any favour by releasing me from the spambot that bans people for no offence. You did your duty as a moderator. Let that sink!

2. You doing your duty by releasing me doesn't give you license to break the rules you should be upholding.

That's the problem we have in this country. The ones in power abuse it by using it to break the law. Then when they do the least of their duties, they want to be worshipped for it.

Bidam: Jesus is actually the mediator of a new covenant( Heb 12:24). The new covenant are laws witten in the hearts of believers(Heb 10:16).We are the ark of God cos we carry God on our inside(2 corinthians 6:16).

Isaiah 42:6 “I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles

Isaiah 49:8 This is what the Lord says: “In the time of my favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people,
to restore the land and to reassign its desolate inheritances,

My dear friend, Jesus is the new covenant...and Mary is the ark that bore him.

That Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant doesn't mean he isnt the new covenant.

Just like Jesus being the sacrificial lamb doesnt mean that Jesus isnt the High Priest making the Sacrifice and that he isnt God whom the sacrifice is being offered to.

Jesus is the mediator between God and man but he is also God.

Jesus is the new covenant and Mary is the Ark.

Joshthefirst:

Yes brother. Why seek the old which has been revealed in the new?