₦airaland Forum

adsonstone: I asked for yours, and I'll give mine hoping we'll reach a compromise.
Well, if you say you agree with the definition in bold, then I assume thats your own definition

that I dint dispute that it has 73 books or more does not mean I agree with them.
I agree with only 66-book bible and thats what I use.


I closed dialogue on this cos Im sure we wont reach an agreement so, theres no point debating this. You've drawn your conclusion already which is different from mine.

Since you've given up trying to prove that 'asking if something is biblical' is biblical, let us give it a rest.

Mrlouis: is that so? Am not here to drag issues with you cos as for you u can keep on arguing. As for me am just happy that all thses lies u are telling me which i tot were true before when i was a catholic like you, i now know they are not the truth. Little wonder why a girl had a vision about the pope in hell. Guess the old man was hoping to enter purgatory.hahahha but he got dissapointed. May it not be your lot too. LMAO

Why should I believe the one who lied that they refused to bless a corpse because of Church dues?

Pls Catholics, what is "church dues?"

I never heard that.

Sal C: The prophet of doom whose heresies are the worst so far is here.

Kettle calling pot black.

The one who says purgatory is Africa.

ajayikayod: Dt Mary, Pope, u and I are on d same page. We all have access to d Father thru Jesus by one Spirit.

Why are you telling me this. Has any Catholic told you that we dont all have access to the Father through Jesus Christ?

ajayikayod: If u meet Mary today, she will laugh at ur claim becos she needed Christ blood to be save,

Laugh at which claim?
[quote author=ajayikayod]needed to be taught by d early church Apostles

Prove this from the Bible.

However, I do know that Jesus always obeyed Mary.

And Jesus is God.

ajayikayod: and was just as same as Dorcas, Mary Magdalene and all other women of d early church. No special preference.

You mean the Holy Spirit was wrong when he said "Blessed are you among women?"

Mrlouis: stop asking questions that are not related. See i was once a catholic and i prroved all this more than you are doing ok. Wen i still a catholic, a friends mother died, they were catholics too. Do you know what happend? The church said they wont bless the body with holy water yet cause she has not been paying her church dues. When i saw this. Another question arose in my mind. Is this not the practice of ritualists and cultists. Alot of dust-raising things are goin on in the catholic church in which i was once a partaker but now. Praise God. Am free.

ROFLMAO!

It's a good sign when someone who says something bad about you shows himself to the public to be a shameless liar.

Thank you MrLoius.

Now we know the truth is always the opposite of what you say.

.

Mrlouis: my friend italo you are making no sense

Ah! No explanation. Just because you say so?

Well, you are entitled to your opinion and talk is cheap.

Keep exercising your freedom of speech.

God bless you.

adsonstone: I did not request his. I requested yours(religion wise).

You never agree with my view. So let me agree with your Protestant view of scripture for now. In the interest of peace.

Scripture is any document e.g the receipt for you TV, your voter's card etc.

Or do you disagree with your Protestant view again?

adsonstone: I mentioned that, I did not also dispute Luther's 66 books (infact, thats what I use).

You believe the Bible is 66 books; you believe that the Bible is 73 books; you believe that the Bible has more than 73 books.

Still your Protestant definition of scripture is not the same as your Protestant definition of bible.

Asking someone if something is "biblical" never happened in the Bible.

adsonstone: I've heard that...cleared
we dont need further dialogue on this

What you're doing by requesting that something must be biblical then is unbiblical and not Christ-like.

six one: Maybe i should start a new thread with those little facts for you to discuss. you are to quick to start throwing insults. are you that butt hurt?

Where is the insult, dear one?

adsonstone: oh Sal C=She.....never knew that. Sorry.

The one you made bold isnt the one that draws the emphasis. Now, the one that draws the emphasis.


does that not mean I have told her how her qstn shld be?

Not exactly.

Mrlouis: Av bin folowing dis thred and ur making no sense at all

How, dear friend.

Please explain.

adsonstone: ....and Italo and the rest of the Catholic church says its 'purgatory'

Italo and others, answer these.
1. Does (or will) everyman pass through your assumed purgatory?

No.

adsonstone: 2. Is there forgiveness in your assumed purgatory?

In a sense, yes. More plainly, there's purification from uncleanness.

adsonstone: 3. What does 'the day of the Lord' refer to in that passage? Or is it also your assumed purgatory?

Answers pls.

Judgement day.

Now answer these:

In Luke 16: 19-31, where is the rich man?

Heaven, hell or earth?

In 1 Cor 15:29, 30, where are the dead whom people are being baptized for located?

Heaven, hell or earth?

six one: And you woke up this morning and decided to post your frustrations about JW. how pathetic

JMAN05 and I agreed to have that discussion.

Can you be civilized and respect both of us?

adsonstone: Now, I put it to you.
What are scriptures (religion wise)?

Your brother JMAN05 the JW taught that it is any document like his birth certificate.

adsonstone: What makes up the bible?

You taught that it was the 73books canonized by the Catholic Church in the 4th century...then your oga Kumuyi teaches that it is 66books.

adsonstone: Regarding the bold... Jesus also asked people if they read in the scriptures or not.
Go and study.

Yes. But he never asked anybody if anything was "biblical."

adsonstone: thats the reason I put the definite command in quote.

Examine what your brother said.



I never TOLD him how his question should be, I suggested.

SHE never said you TOLD her how her question should be.

SHE only said "it is not your duty to tell me how my question should be."

Are you going to accept that they are the same thing?

@ mods,

Your attention is needed here www.nairaland.com/1506699/jman05-please-defend-jehovahs-witnesses

@Six one keeps deliberately trying to derail the thread by posting off topic.

Thanks.

six one: How ignorant and wasteful one can be. for the records, JW teachings are more in line with the bible than ogboni catholic doctrine. a 5 year old JW child will trash you anyday when it comes to bible debate. cos they study the bible. your church doctrine revolves around Mary, rosary, pugatory. what else?

Please stop deliberately trying to derailing that thread by repeatedly posting you frustrations about Catholicism.

That thread has NOTHING to do with Catholicism.

It was open so that JMAN05 could defend the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines which many hold to be false.

Are you worried that I might expose your false doctrines?

adsonstone: when did 'I guess' stop being a suggestion and become a 'definite command'?

Even a 7year-old primary school student understands better. Smh

The 7 year old would also know that no one said you made a definite command.

Ubenedictus: @ mavister, instead of a long arguement, i'll simply hold you to your word. You have already admitted it that bible say some will be purified before entrance into heaven.
You cant say that some will be purified b4 entering heaven and still claim that there is no purgatory unless you are mad. I'll like to assume that you are not mad, so please make up your mind, are believer purified of their impecfection or not. amen, amen, amen, what you explained above, is the catholic church teaching on purgatory, on the day of judgement your worth will be revealed, before you reach heaven the hay and straws (human imperfection) must be purged out, even if it is burnt you'll still be saved but 2 thing will happen 1st you'll suffer loss, 2nd you'll "escape as though by fire".
Dear mavister, in simple terms what u explained above is purgatory, the removal of human imperfection b4 entrance into heaven.

I dont think he's mad too. Just confused.

adsonstone: biblical- 'in line with the scriptures in the bible'

asking someone if something is in line with the scriptures....is also in line with the bible.

Okay?

The bold are not the same thing.

Was it not your brother JMAN05 that taught that any document, even his birth certificate is scripture?

Asking someone if something is "biblical" is NOT biblical.

It was never done in the Bible.

six one: How ignorant and wasteful one can be. for the records, JW teachings are more in line with the bible than ogboni catholic doctrine. a 5 year old JW child will trash you anyday when it comes to bible debate. cos they study the bible. your church doctrine revolves around Mary, rosary, pugatory. what else?

The same JWs that teach that Jesus is Archangel Michael?

That have lied about the 2nd coming of Jesus several times. Once when the date came and Jesus didnt show face, they lied again that Jesus had come and gone invisibly...



Go and prove it on that thread. JMAN05 asked for it.

six one: 1 COR 3:11-15

stop abusing these verses. purgatorians

You explain where v15 is talking about then.

Adsonstone said it is where judgement will take place.

JMAN05 said it is persecution on earth.

Some other protestants say it is heaven.

Different explanations, yet you're all children of Martin Luther claiming inspiration from the Holy Spirit.

Tell me, whose version do you align with...or do you have a separate explanation from the same Holy Spirit?

adsonstone: I guess the question should be 'is rapture biblical?'

What do you mean by "biblical?"

Is "biblical" biblical?

Is asking if something is biblical biblical?

Sal C: Some people enjoy lying.

The bible verses Italo provided in a single post since yesterday is greater than that of all the protestants put together.

Non of you tried to refute it, yet you are telling blatant lies.

Typical of the protestant.

From purgatory to baptism now to rapture. I laugh.

The thing is I even have 100 more proofs. But whats the point when they haven't successfully or reasonably refuted 1 out of the previous 100?

Ukuts gp: we dnt pray to apron and bow down to it ok.

Why should I believe you?

@ JMAN05,

Pls come and defend you Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines which almost everybody finds false here:

www.nairaland.com/1506699/jman05-please-defend-jehovahs-witnesses

chukwudi44: Bros I did not just label two.all the people you listed were catholics.That Jerome opposed the deuternocanons does not make him protestant or orthodox as both forms of christianity did not even exist during his life time.Jerome lived during the period of development of canon and so many other people disgreed about the authenticity of not just those 7 books but several other books in the bible.

You dey mind person wey dey live to lie lie?

The sect now known as the Jehovah’s Witnesses was started by Charles Taze Russell, who was born in 1852 and worked in Pittsburgh as a haberdasher. He was raised a Congregationalist, but at the age of seventeen he tried to convert an atheist to Christianity and ended up being converted instead—not to outright atheism, but to agnosticism. Some years later he went to an Adventist meeting, was told that Jesus would be back at any time, and got interested in the Bible.

The leading light of Adventism had been William Miller, a flamboyant preacher who predicted that the world would end in 1843. When it didn’t, he "discovered" an arithmetical error in his eschatological calculations and said it would end in 1844. When his prediction again failed, many people became frustrated and withdrew from the Adventist movement, but a remnant, led by Ellen G. White, went on to form the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

True or false?

mavister: Italo had been in the room the whole time yet he eluded my questions. What does that mean, '' I DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO PROOVE MY DOCTRINE, BUT I'L JUST KEEP OBSERVING THEM'' funny!

I have answered to your biggest request.

I have given you tonnes of scriptural evidence.

What have you done with it?

You still want scriptural proof of purgatory?

...contd.


II. Purification After Death By Fire
Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).
1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).
1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).
1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, "but only" (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase "but only" (or “yet so”) in the Greek is "houtos" which means "in the same manner." This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.
1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).
1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God's temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.
1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.
Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.
Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).
Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.
Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.
Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.
Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.
Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God's purification of the righteous at their death.

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html