₦airaland Forum

[quote author= yah]Funny, this is the way i will describe you.[/quote]At least, for once, I can take a positive from your post.

"Funny" is such a compliment, considering that, before, you'd have said "idiot","dumb", "daft" or some other really derogatory word.

The Lord touched you this one time at least; praise be to his holy name.

seriallink: Italo, you are derailing this thread. Did you see my name on the thread's topic?

Well, @the bolded, I can't remember telling you that I have all the answers. But something similar to this has been discussed on another thread and I have learnt from it. Maybe this thread is meant for people with similar understanding of scripture! So, I'll be watching from the sidelines

The Bible has all the answers though. It's left for us to follow it precepts upon precepts as the scripture says:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

You don't have all the answers but you can condemn other people on issues which you have no answers on.

*sorry, I'm derailing the thread further*

Ask Jesus.

Ihedinobi: Is there something preventing you from going straight to God to get His teaching on it?

Also, I'm not here for you to rank me. If it were possible, this discussion might have been restricted to the named discussants. We have reason for discussing and it isn't to prove that any one of us is God's mouthpiece on the issue. It is for the different revelations granted each of us to come to one mature revelation.

So if you want to keep a scoreboard, you're probably on the wrong thread.

No offence meant though.

No offence taken, as I'm not even ranking anybody.

I'm only trying to know what God is teaching on this issue. Everyone of you has had an argument on doctrine with me at one time or the other and you all ascert your positions as though you were sure it's God's teaching.

This is only a good opportunity for me to get all three of you (and possibly more) to teach me again. It is also a chance for me to know if you will all teach the same thing or different things.

If you admit that you are fallible, how can you then tell another man with certainty that he is wrong on his own interpretation of the Bible. That alone is a claim to infallibility.

I would also like to know where this different revelations you mentioned is coming from and what the "mature revelation" will be at the end of the day.

But then, perhaps I am asking for too much; that would be derailing the thread.

seriallink: I dey see your vexation but we are not invited nah If dem show you scriptures you go gree *Smh*

Edit: Do you realise that some Christians are Atheists today because of some unscriptural Church doctrines?

But you could have used the space and time you used to post this to tell us what scripture teaches on this issue...you who has the infallible scriptural doctrine.

Deductions from Ihedinobi:

"I think" "I think" "I think". Unsure of almost everything. Though he made a good attempt. He is not claiming infallibility in any way...and he is not claiming to tell us God's teaching.

Who will tell us what God teaches on this topic?

frosbel: I hope you are not implying that the PAGAN catholic church is the church, that would be blasphemy !!

As Jesus told Pilate: "It is you who says so."

22 posts and still nothing.

Who will tell us God's teaching on this topic?

Where are those so-called non-denominational Christians that claim to interpret the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit? Where are all those who oppose Christ's Church when it claims to teach infallibly the doctrine of God?

This is your time to teach o... And pls anyone who attempts to teach us should please tell us if he is infallible or fallible in matters of faith and morals.

Jesus: "This is my body"

Ijawkid, Boomark: "No, it's not"

frosbel: The church was scattered into 40,000 denominations eons ago without bro.Frosbel's help.

The sheep are confused, many are turning to atheism, yoga and are disillusioned with the sorry state of affairs of churchianity , the tithe fraud, eternal torment farce , paedophilia in the catholic church and their acceptance of paganism and a host of other madness. The false teachers and false prophets are scattering the sheep , lay the blame on them not me.

I am only trying to play my small part by going back to the bible and exposing the real truths therein.

In other words, you are saying the gates of hades has prevailed against the Church...

...In direct contradiction to Jesus' promise.

I don't want to make this a Catholic apologetics affair but...

I still maintain that you cannot understand or imagine what all these mean to A FAITHFUL ACTIVELY PRACTISING CATHOLIC.

I'm just so eager to see this discussion really take off...

...So that we can see the danger of private interpretation of the Bible without the Church that Christ built.

*bear in mind that God's doctrine is ONE, so if no two people say the same thing, either only one of you is right or none of you is right*

cleric: To me, dat is plain stupidity. God gave us a brain. There is a difference between bravery ,matyrdom and suicidal tendencies. It is not as if they are gathering to win souls or spread the gospel. They are just trying to do an 'aluta' which is commendabl but it does not amount to defending your faith, or spreading the gospel afterall, boko haram didn't ask dem to renounce christ or get bombed.
However,the apostles went into hiding when they were persecuted. Paul went to Rome to die because that was approved to him by God.
I stand to be corrected.

cleric: To me, dat is plain stupidity. God gave us a brain. There is a difference between bravery ,matyrdom and suicidal tendencies. It is not as if they are gathering to win souls or spread the gospel. They are just trying to do an 'aluta' which is commendabl but it does not amount to defending your faith, or spreading the gospel afterall, boko haram didn't ask dem to renounce christ or get bombed.
However,the apostles went into hiding when they were persecuted. Paul went to Rome to die because that was approved to him by God.
I stand to be corrected.

I don't want to answer your post in detail, but I will say that...

You can't understand or imagine what it means for a faithful, actively practising Catholic to miss mass on Sunday. You can't understand or imagine what it means to abandon Christ and his priest at the altar on Sunday. You can't imagine what Church, mass and communion mean to us...

...So it's just best you keep quiet about it.

I have a feeling Boomark is just trying to make us laugh.

As for me -ve decided to just read his posts and laugh...as I'd do at a comedy show.

So can you define PRAYER for us...

So that we can know what it is.

I think this is the wisest thing you've done on this thread. I usually stay away from arguments I know little about too... Only, in my case, I don't even enter into it in the first place, much less start it.

.

advocate666: Ok. Apology accepted. Just don't make things up next time, ok?

I didn't deliberately make it up. I already explained what I meant by "doctors" and I thought you would understand it without my having to explain. Obviously not.

advocate666: No. You are saying he has documented evidence. (of death, I assume)

Your assumption was wrong, as usual... And I'm not calling you a liar for saying that I lied over this issue.

advocate666: Why are you telling people what you believe if you are not asking them to believe? Stop lying to yourself.

My friend, your whole argument is full of wild assumptions. I am not telling or trying to make you believe what I believe. Simple. I'm telling you what I believe because you told me that science declares my faith as wrong without even knowing my faith/religion.

advocate666: In anycase I already told you that science doesn't care what you believe. (Killing Galileo didn't make the sun start going around flat earth)

And I already told you that I don't know what that means, as science is not a person. But I know many Catholic scientists who are/were some of the giants of science through history (including Galileo). These scientists certainly cared about what I believe.

advocate666: Your faith cannot prove or disprove anything, which renders it completely useless.

It can/has proved things to us so it is very useful to us. Infact it is very essential to our lives. It only seems useless to you because you have closed your mind and spirit to it. You are like a blind man who expects someone to prove to him that the sky is blue.

advocate666: If you had taken care to answer my question you would have understood that the inability to disprove some unverified notion doesn't make that notion necessarily true.

Good! True! Then you must agree that the inability to prove some unverified/verified notion doesn't make that notion false.

TRUE or FALSE?

advocate666: argumentum ad verecundiam

Its not always a bad thing. Its okay if the authority in question is a subject-matter expert and/or there is a concensus among experts.

advocate666: To answer your three questions, here goes:
1- There are numerous examples here of you making things up. Like when you said that doctors said Muamba rose from dead. (lie. only one doctor Tobin said : "In effect he was dead in that time," ). Or when you claimed Dr. Tobin had documented evidence.

Okay, sorry. The doctor that treated Fabrice, the one in charge of the team of doctors that treated him, the one whom I believe would have the authority to make a public and official statement about the case, said! I hope that is not also a lie.

Are you saying the doctor that treated Fabrice didn't have documented evidence on the case? I can't believe this?

advocate666: 2- With reference to the bible, it is the book you are using to justify the same book. It is like a snake eating its own tail. I'm just saying "watch out"!
Put it another way. If I tell you that my phone took pictures of the other side of the moon when I was inside my bedroom and I can see the bugs living there? Will you believe me? Really? Why not? What if I show you the pictures in my phone? Will you believe? What if I can get an astronomer to "confirm" the story? Why won't you believe?

Pointless. I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm telling you what I believe and saying science cannot disprove what I believe. You keep missing or forgetting the very argument.

advocate666: 3- The final authority on what science says is empirical verifiable/observable evidence. The main thing your religious authority lack.

Empirical evidence can never be an authority because you need someone to analyze and explain empirical evidence of anything and its implications. With all the empirical evidence in the world there are Scientists who don't believe Jesus rose and there are those who do. This shows that different scientists have understood the evidence in different ways, how then can the evidence be an authority. But even those who don't believe Jesus rose cannot give evidence that Jesus did not rise from the dead. There just isn't a scientist that has or can prove that Jesus didn't resurrect from the tomb in Jerusalem 2000yrs ago. Give me his name if you have it.

...And I'm Catholic.

Peace to you too, my brother.

@ Boomark,

What do you mean by "Jesus or Communion?"

I thought Jesus is Communion and Communion is Jesus.

I didn't see you arguing against the one who referred to Jesus as wafer and compared him to agege bread.

Are you really fighting for Christ?

Rev 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]

who was, and is, and is to come.”

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
    to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
    and by your will they were created
    and have their being.”

Even the 24 elders never stop because the repeat their prayer anytime the four creatures repeat theirs.

This is the word of the Lord!

I told you there is nothing in my religion that teaches against fossils or anything that's true in science. That was my answer to you. Then you made a list of things you think my religion is wrong on and after I gave a general comment you complained.

I then went on to argue on "rising from death" specifically - for a start. And you left some of my questions in that argument unanswered only to move to another sub-topic.

Its okay if you don't want to answer. But don't expect me to move on to something else without you dealing with those questions.

You cannot expect me to address your questions while you conveniently evade mine.

You are free to go away with the imaginary gold medal that you seemingly crave.

Congratulations!

A Christian should not support or encourage divorce in any way, whether as a lawyer or otherwise.

Amen! I pray the same for you.

[quote author= yah]This is getting interesting. I cant believe anyone will be so daft like this italo, even in the face of evidence, he is still looking for a way out.
Well, there is no way out of this one. God bless the poster of this thread.[/quote]God bless you.

I do. But I have never met a Christian who says that his or his churches doctrine is unscriptural...and they all quote scripture to back that up and many say they are inspired by the Holy Spirit (who was only ONE last time I checked). Yet they come up with millions of different doctrines from ONE Bible and ONE Holy Spirit.

If I were to ask you, frosbel and yah, who all claim to interprete God's word independently, I'm sure you cannot come up with the same doctrine on all matters., which means that either one of you is right and the other two are wrong or all three of you are not having God's doctrine.

Who, among all you millions of independent "christians" and thousands of "churches" then, is teaching God's unchanging doctrine?

booqee: ^^Ok let us accept the fact dat the person doesn't exist, do you also want to refute the fact that anathemas also doesn't exist. Well if ur research was biased, mine wasn't. I checked..and behold the anathemas was truly practiced in the catholic church?? Wat u gon say bout dat??


dude you don't have to go on the defensive to evade the obvious question. Yes or No. I'm 100% sure U made ur research too and found out the roman catholic church truly practiced it. But because, just as someone said the concept of the papal infallability has eaten deep into you guys..there's this unexplainable fear not to refute anything the pope says or does prolly because he's 'perfect' and can never be wrong or sinful?? Who the hell is the pope dat he can't fall short of sin?? Now anything the pope says or practice u just accept all hook, line and sinker ..without giving so much as a tot to questioning it. If he tells y'all to start eating dog shi.t, the whole lot of you will start making a meal outta it without a 2nd thought. Talk about been dense?! For pete's sake, is he God?! God is the only infallible being i know. Papal infallibility my foot!

My sweetheart,

Perhaps you might want to be a little more civil in your statements.

I was answering the OP, and here you are accusing me of being unnecessarily defensive. You haven't even let me get to the issue of Anathema with him.

Anyway let me forget my answer to him and face your worries.

What is your problem with "Anathema?"

teeo: It has lost its place as a prayer item. Why dont people use the muslim tesbir for fashion.

What about those who still use it to pray?

Has it lost its place as a prayer item for them?

@ yah, seriallink and frosbel,

Ever since you quit the "false doctrines' preached in "churches", have you found the true doctrine?

If you have, what is it and/or where is it?

"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church."--Tertullian.

@ OP,

Did you see or hear any positive thing (in your opinion) in the Catholic Church you went to...

...Or did you fail to see or hear because you went there with the mindset that you could only see or hear things that are negative (in your opinion)?

advocate666: You can twist and turn whichever way you want, but you are in a losing position.

You can accuse me of twisting without providing proof and declare yourself a winner without being able to prove your point; it won't make it true.

advocate666: replying to your post will only be tantamount to repeating myself.

Replying dishonestly! Replying honestly will be tantamount to admitting to my position.

advocate666: now it is about your religion. lol.

*Now he's going to pretend like he didn't see it in my first post to him, even though I quoted it again*

advocate666: except this religion of yours, whatever it is, depends on the bible like hundreds of others, which makes your following assertion false:

"...whatever it is..." That's an admission that you don't know what you are even arguing about. You say science disproves MY religion...and you don't know what my religion is. For your information, my religion was in existence before the Bible ever existed (unlike your hundreds of others). To inform you further, my religion created the Bible (unlike your hundreds of others). My religion has the sole authority to explain and teach what the Bible says (unlike your hundreds of others). How then can it be dependent on the Bible? So my assertion is not false. It is your assumption of what my religion teaches that is false.

advocate666: I would ask you to research the meaning of "fossil" but i guess you will just go into the same fallacy as you did with death.

I never told you what "death" meant to me so how could have ended up with a fallacy on that. I just worked with the definition you gave me so if we ended up with a fallacy, I achieved my objective: to show you how fallacious your argument is.

advocate666: But for the sake of others reading this thread. Consider this, when you put petrol in your car, you are using fuel generated by decomposed dead animals (and humanoids) that lived on this earth millions of years ago. How does this reconcile with the first story very first book of your religion?

Before I answer your question, for the sake of people reading this thread, I think you should first answer 3 questions I asked you which you haven't answered:

What have I made up (you accused me of making things up)?

Weren't you referencing what the Bible says when you talked about "rising from the dead"? Why can't I do same? *this is even more relevant because you are asking me a question which will make me tell you what the Bible says, then you'll say afterwards that I shouldn't reference the Bible*

Who is the final authority on 'what Science says'?