₦airaland Forum

ijawkid: Have you ever thought of following Jesus once in your life??

.....

Which Jesus? The one you call "a god" or the one we call "God"?

The former - NO; the latter - I have never thought of NOT following him.

seriallink: You go fear where people dey bow down for statue nah Statue of a woman who died over 2000 yrs ago! *Smh*

How do you know she died over 2000 years ago? Show me where the Bible says that...

I'm not quarrelling with you o... I just want scriptural proof of what you said.

Afterall you've been asking me for scriptural proof of all sorts of things.

truthislight: the NT are writtings by the apostles of christ and the history of christ and the history of the apostles in the book of acts.

Since the books of the christians (NT) were from the apostles to congregations and the congregation were using it, then it Was a straith forward thing to gather this writtings of the apostles together, and that is the NT.
Peace

Who told you it was a straight forward thing? There were so many books and letters that were in circulation, including heretical ones.

Have you heard about the gospel of Thomas, the gospel of Barnabas, the gospel of Judas, the Acts of Peter, Enoch, etc...? Why are they not in the Bible? *because the Catholic Church did not consider them as scriptural so did not add them to the books of the Bible*

Have you read the books of Mark and Luke? What is in those writings to show that it was indeed Mark and Luke who wrote those books? NOTHING! And where is it written that those books were inspired? NOWHERE! So why do you believe that those books were written by Mark and Luke and were inspired? *because the Catholic Church determined their authors, considered them as Scriptural and included them in the Bible.

...But we are doing what Joshua did...

pastormustwac: Italo, hard to understand you atimes.
Pappville, you are on point. And you are understand me perfectly.

The thread is very clear, but it can be a bit confusing. But my language is very clear.

Of course, you only 'understand' those who agree with everything you say. Anyone who has a differing opinion is a trouble maker.

If I ask you what is it that you don't understand, you will say you can't answer because you don't want trouble.

Only a few simple questions I asked...but perhaps because the questions will expose inconsistencies in your theology, you dodged it and labeled me 'quarrelsome'.

vedaxcool: At least he got freed from a strange tradition that has led to more homosexual priest and thus damaging the credibility of Religion!

He got free?

I thought they have gay bishops and reverends in the Anglican Church.

@ Chukwudi44,

I dey for your back.

pastormustwacc: I know your reasons for asking me questions. But i am intentionally try to avoid controversy. And i hate fights between christians and anyone else (other than devils and aluminati) - but even those fights are meant to be on the spiritual level (mostly), and not verbal fights.

Jude 1:9

Understandable. But you should also understand my point of view.

1 Peter 3:15: But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

advocate666: You don't really believe the bolded, do you? There is no way you can reconcile religion with science without going against the fundamentals of your beliefs.

Try religiously explaining fossils. (dinosaurs)

There is nothing in my religion that teaches against fossils or anything that's true in science.

afam4eva: Is the Archbishop of Canterbury to the Anglican church what the Pope is to the Catholic church?

Not exactly.

The Pope is the visible head of the Catholic Church on earth; the Archbishop of Canterbury is not the head of the Anglican Church. Its the Queen of England.

Ask them where the Bible says we should go by The Bible Alone.

They won't be able to give you an answer.

Why?

Because The Bible doesn't say it. It doesn't even mention the word 'Bible.'

Rather the Bible says in 2Thess. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, WHETHER BY WORD, or our epistle."

------------

Then ask them where the Bible says we are saved by "faith ALONE."

They won't be able to give you a correct answer.

Why?

Because the Bible doesn't say that.

Rather the Bible says in James 2:24: "You see that a man is justified by WORKS and NOT by faith alone."

seriallink: Italo, you do know that the worship of the Queen of Heaven was there before Mary right? And God detested it because it was pagan! BTW, where is it written in the Bible that Mary is the original Queen of Heaven & that we should honor her? Just leave that pagan dogma, it's unscriptural!

Its not Pagan, its Christian.

In Jeremiah 7:18, God is indeed upset with the Israelites for worshipping a false goddess called the "queen of heaven". However, just because God rebuked them for worshipping the false queen of heaven, doesn't mean that we cannot pay honor to the true Queen of Heaven...the Blessed Mother.
That type of thinking would lead you to believe that just because people worship a false god that they call "god," we, therefore, should not call the true God, by that same name...God...because that's the same title the idolaters use for their god! That is faulty logic and it makes no sense whatsoever.

Again, the fact that there is a false "queen of heaven", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false goddess when we call Mary the "Queen of Heaven." Just as the fact that there is a false "god", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false god when we call our Father in Heaven, God.

And there is a true Queen of Heaven, we see this quite clearly in Revelation 12:1, "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars..." Let's see. There's a woman...she's in Heaven...and she has a crown on her head. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's the maid! No! It is the true Queen of Heaven, Mary, the mother of the male child who is to rule the nations.

We do not worship Mary, we honor her, just as Jesus honors her. So, there is absolutely nothing wrong, from a scriptural point of view, in calling Mary the Queen of Heaven, and in honoring her just as Jesus honors her.

A house that is built on sand cannot stand.

A Church that was started just because King Henry VIII wanted to be free to commit adultery...

...THIS IS THE RESULT.

It is indeed sad that many religious people are cowed by scientific knowledge.

Of course, that can only boil down to insecurity in their faith.

One who has the true faith should not be made insecure by scientific knowledge. He should rather pursue it.

True Science and True Faith will only lead to the same answers, though they take different routes. However, faith can transcends the scope of science.

This movie go tough well well.

@ Uboma, do you fully agree with this statement too?

Jesus never commanded that the Bible should be written or compiled. Even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible.

Where in the Bible did non-Catholics find that anything not found in the Bible must not be done? This way of worship is not in the Bible.

pastormustwacc: I am from catholic background, and we call it holy rosary. The non-catholics see it as a charm that will protect them from evils in various forms, and that it will draw goodluck to them. The ones I interviewed at least believed this.

I don't really see a problem with non-Catholics seeing the Holy Rosary as a charm that will see off evil and bring good luck, as long as they realize its a Holy "charm" and not an evil one. Its just like a non Christian putting a Bible in his house for the same reason. My only problem would be when they desecrate the holy object either deliberately or out of ignorance of its meaning. We Catholics see the Rosary as a sacramental which can ward off evil and bring God's mercy especially when it has been blessed by a Priest. That is in addition to it being a powerful prayer.

Now I don't know why you are not so forth-coming in answering all my questions. Perhaps you think I'm just trying to antagonize you. No. I'm only trying to know where you stand on these issues.

Let me rephrase and post my questions again.

italo: What about Catholics? Is it okay for us to wear the Rosary?

Do you think the Rosary is "HOLY" or EVIL or just ordinary, like any necklace?

Its okay if you don't want to answer, but please just tell me so so that I'll know.

pastormustwacc: I am from catholic background, and we call it holy rosary. The non-catholics see it as a charm that will protect them from evils in various forms, and that it will draw goodluck to them. The ones I interviewed at least believed this.

I don't really see a problem with non-Catholics seeing the Holy Rosary as a charm that will see off evil and bring good luck, as long as they realize its a Holy "charm" and not an evil one. Its just like a non Christian putting a Bible in his house for the same reason. My only problem would be when they desecrate the holy object either deliberately or out of ignorance of its meaning. We Catholics see the Rosary as a sacramental which can ward off evil and bring God's mercy especially when it has been blessed by a Priest. That is in addition to it being a powerful prayer.

Now I don't know why you are not so forth-coming in answering all my questions. Perhaps you think I'm just trying to antagonize you. No. I'm only trying to know where you stand on these issues.

Let me rephrase and post my questions again.

italo: What about Catholics? Is it okay for us to wear the Rosary?

Do you think the Rosary is "HOLY" or EVIL or just ordinary, like any necklace?

Boomark: Ok o. But what i know is that i can't join the Catholics and worship idol, carved image of thieves thinking they are Christ.

I can't bow and kneel before a big statue of a woman thinking it is mary and offer prayers to it.

You can't join us in doing these things simply because we don't do them... But you can and do worship your parents.

Boomark: Deuteronomy 4:15-16 (NRS)

15 Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely, 16 so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves, in the form of any figure—the likeness of male or female,

This is a very clear warning. Even a blind man will see this. You never saw his form.

You people just read and deliberately refuse to understand. Firstly, we have seen the form of Jesus, Mary and the saints so that verse has little to do with the images we have. Secondly, God said do not make IDOLS. Not every image is an idol. If it were so, then every sculpture or painting or picture would be an idol. An idol is one you use to replace God. Thirdly, I think you are the one violating that command from God. You have made your parents who were made in God's IMAGE into your IDOLS and you are worshipping them.

Boomark: Idol worshipers are not Christians(followers of Christ). They only succeeded in deceiving lots of Christians in history.

I agree, like those who worship human beings (like parents).

Boomark: Get out if you are still under their idolatry, if you want to server the only true God. For we know our root, our owner-Christ.

There's no idolatry so no need to Get out. Its you who needs to get out of worshipping your parents.

Of course, Italo has to be the trouble maker.

It can't possibly be anyone else.

Afterall, the rest are Christians and I am an "idol worshipper."

I still think its hypocritical to take a position that accuses me of standing by my faith and criticizing other faith...and then criticize my faith. Except you are about to change the definition of HYPOCRISY.

As regards your "Queen of Heaven" worries,

In Jeremiah 7:18, God is indeed upset with the Israelites for worshipping a false goddess called the "queen of heaven". However, just because God rebuked them for worshipping the false queen of heaven, doesn't mean that we cannot pay honor to the true Queen of Heaven...the Blessed Mother.
That type of thinking would lead you to believe that just because people worship a false god that they call "god," we, therefore, should not call the true God, by that same name...God...because that's the same title the idolaters use for their god! That is faulty logic and it makes no sense whatsoever.

Again, the fact that there is a false "queen of heaven", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false goddess when we call Mary the "Queen of Heaven." Just as the fact that there is a false "god", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false god when we call our Father in Heaven, God.

And there is a true Queen of Heaven, we see this quite clearly in Revelation 12:1, "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars..." Let's see. There's a woman...she's in Heaven...and she has a crown on her head. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's the maid! No! It is the true Queen of Heaven, Mary, the mother of the male child who is to rule the nations.

We do not worship Mary, we honor her, just as Jesus honors her. So, there is absolutely nothing wrong, from a scriptural point of view, in calling Mary the Queen of Heaven, and in honoring her just as Jesus honors her.

From: www.biblechristiansociety.com

tobechi20: I know a family frend who was born aglican.

To cut it short, dis family atends sunday service in chosen church,atends cros over nite in MFM church every month end, and shiloh at livin faith yearly.


I tink its awkward to atend multiple churches. Stick to one at a time

There is only ONE Church which Christ founded. All these other ones are founded by men and at best, I can only refer to most of them as "shops" not "churches."

So since they are shops, where people go to buy different products, there is nothing bad in patronizing a million shops in the quest for what you want.

Except they are ready to quit the shopping and seek the body of Christ...then, they should seek and stick with the ONE TRUE CHURCH.

@ Pastormustwacc,

First, I will comment generally, then I will go to the one aspect that specifically concerns me most.

I think its largely because majority of Christians (though they profess faith in Jesus), do not truly realize who Jesus is...and they do not have unflinching faith in him. Secondly, they don't really worship God in truth and in spirit. They only follow (or pretend to follow) God for selfish reasons (what they can gain materially), just like the crowds that followed Jesus around only because he had given them bread and fish the previous day, but when Jesus told them that the bread they had to eat for eternal life was his flesh, they left him. That's how many so-called Christians are and that's why they go to anywhere they can find immediate "miracles" whether from good or evil source. They do not really realise that Jesus is God. If they did, they would know that all they needed to do is to be good children of God and their Father would never forsake them. That is why some of us don't place so much emphasis on miracles. We don't need spectacular miracles to know the power and love of God. We seek them when we need them and welcome them when God grants them but wHen God chooses not to grant, we accept our cross and carry it with love for God. Instead of running from pillar to post looking for who will perform magic.

Now regarding your point 6. I have a few questions to ask.

What exactly is your problem with non-Catholics wearing the Rosary?

What about Catholics? Is it okay for us to wear the Rosary?

Do you really think the Rosary is "HOLY" or you just called it so because we call it so?

inurmind: Na wa for catholics o, they are already showing examples of what the op is condenming.

seriallink: Well said!

@ seriallink, you come here and act like Catholics are the one who like to criticize other people then you go on another thread to continue bashing us.

https://www.nairaland.com/1089908/pagan-mary-queen-heaven-worship

seriallink: Wow!! This has 100% pagan origin!! You can see the carbon copy here : Queen of Heaven Pagan Practice in different religions

Quite hypocritical as is expected from you people.

obadiah777: WELL YOU MY FRIEND JUST UNEARTHED A GEM WITH THAT PICTURE. THAT THERE PICTURE SHOWS THE SENSE OF HUMOR OF THE LORD. MATTER FACT HERE IS ANOTHER SENSE OF HUMOR STORY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsb2pMzwmdI

THE LORD STRUCK THAT IDOL WITH LIGHTENING.

Interesting!

The Catholic Church has had soooo many statues of Jesus, Mary and other Saints for thousands of years but when, as you put it, the Lord struck, he overlooked all of them and struck that erected and belonging to the so-called "Solid Rock Church." Meanwhile when the same fire gutted everything around the statue of Mary, it was left untouched.

Could this be a coincidence or is the Lord telling us something?

Its just interesting!

Boomark: One of your catholic friends once told me that the word "until" has a different meaning in Greek before it was translated in English. That's why i want to know what your own worship means.

So my brother whether it is worship or shipwor, you don't serve God with a carved image of an unknown person. It is idol worship.

...But you have no moral right to complain about other people. You worship you parents, according to you.

Keep the comments coming, people.

obadiah777: DAYUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM THTS THE LORD LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THIS IS WHY I TORE YOUR CITY UP. FOR WORSHIPPING THIS IDOL. THE IDOL OF THE BLONDE WHITE JESUS AND THE VIRGIN MARY LMBAO OUR LORD SHO DO AVE A SENSE OF HUMOR I TELL YA

I'm getting the expected rewards. Dramatic comments (either negative or positive) are what I expected.

YOU accuse me of worshipping all sorts of things, then you ask me to teach you what worship means. LMAO!

I won't teach you. I will go with your initial definition which would mean that you worship your parents.

...Just so that you can see how inadequate your reasoning on this issue is (and that is putting it politely).

If you cannot answer the questions, forget it then.

honeric01: I rather watch paints dry than continue with a public liar like you.

Somehow I knew you wouldn't live up to your word, as usual.

You showed by your last post that you'd rather continue with "a public liar." So now who's the liar?

Sorry for the distraction, but this also has to do with the hurricane. https://plus.google.com/+wsj/posts/EdKpKgVWGvJ

@ Ijawkid,

I asked you a few questions and until you answer them, don't expect me to answer to any issue you raise. I will only keep repeating the same questions.

How many Babalawos and Dibias have you tried attacking then? Be honest.

You would have supported the Pharisees?

What is idolatry?

If you cannot tell me the origin of the word "Bible" or the book itself, why should I tell you the origin of the Rosary?