₦airaland Forum

Wilgrea7:
As usual... Unwilling to discuss

Why do i even bother?

You won't get anywhere near getting a level headed, cerebral discourse with these lots. Some of them attempt to have a discourse, but a great deal of them are plain thick headed. And these 2 are as thick headed as they come

Righthussle:
If you believe that story then you have a tuber of yam in your head not brain.

Huge tuber of yam, with a bottle of palm oil beside it. Religion truly has damaged Nigerians ' brains beyond repair

RoyalDiadems:
I can now see without an iota of doubt that the devil has spiritually blinded some people, and they've also chosen to remain blind.

Churches don't keep names of people. Sometimes, you don't even know that healing would happen. You just call for testimonies, and then, you hear people testifying. Keep names for what? The church's main assignment is to save the lost, healing is just by the side. That's not our main task.

In Bonkke's crusades, miracles are numerous because of the mammoth crowd that flood his meetings. When it's testimony time, people mob the platform in a bid to share their testimonies. Bonkke does not know any of them. He doesn't even have their history. They share their testimonies right there on the platform, and depart. For the sake of time,only few individuals among the mob of testifiers are allowed. Infact thousands go back home without anyone hearing their testimonies.

There are hundreds of thousands of blog posts and websites today that attest to the fact that miracles take place in Bonkke's crusades, but you chose to ignore those. You prefer to embrace the lies of a few blogs written by satanists to disparage the work of God. Your choices would certainly lead you somewhere someday.

Have you read about Marrion Branham? Have you heard about Benson Idahosa? These are people who raised the dead live in meetings. Marrion Branham even had a lot of supernatural manifestations in his ministry. The photos are on the internet.

Anyway, those who love to feed lies would end in disastrously. The Kingdom of God is established by truth, and propagated by truth. One day, this truth would stare you in the eye face to face, I just pray it wouldn't be too late for you at the time.

Take up the challenge I gave you. That's the only way you can say something meaningful about these matters. Don't ask me to go online to read lies about Bonkke. I witnessed a lot of miracles in his crusades firsthand. So, I don't need anyone to tell me what happened or what did not happen in those crusades.

Take up the challenge. Let's see how it goes.

Sorry bro. Churches keep track of 'testimonies'. I'm sure u have seen church bulletins where they list out testimonies of their members, though oddly enough, they don't put their names. Which is smart cos they know they would be found out if they did. Since they have the time to record the testimony in detail, what stops them from getting the details of the testifiers? Doesn't it sound odd in your ear?
About Bonkke, I gave you the story of one his the men he 'resurrected' which turned out to be a scam. So if they don't keep track, how did they get his name?
I gave you the names of born again Christian celebrities who have all sorts of afflictions, but aren't healed. You keep on dodging that topic
Its easy for your con men to convince us they heal by healing those people. That kind of miracle doesn't require checking up cos everyone know them. But guess what, they still are blind, crippled, deaf etc despite billions of billions of miracles happening everyday.
Marrion Branham was a racist pastor who believed in Serpent Seed, which believes that the Serpent mated with Eve and gave birth to the black race, including you. . I got the following clips….

[b]Throughout his healing revivals, Branham was accused of committing fraud by investigative news reporters, fellow ministers, host churches, and governmental agencies. Numerous people pronounced healed died shortly thereafter, investigators discovered evidence suggesting miracles may have been staged, and Branham was found to have significantly embellished and falsified numerous stories he presented to his audiences as fact. Branham faced legal problems as a result of his practices. The governments of South Africa and Norway intervened in order to stop his healing campaigns in their countries. In the United States, Branham was charged with tax evasion for failing to account for the donations received through his ministry; admitting his liability, he settled the case out of court. The news media has linked Branham to multiple notorious figures. Branham was baptized and ordained a minister by Roy Davis, the National Imperial Wizard (leader) of the Ku Klux Klan; the two men maintained a lifelong relationship. Branham helped launch and popularize the ministry of Jim Jones. Paul Schäfer, Robert Martin Gumbura, Leo Mercer, and other followers of William Branham's teachings have regularly been in the news due to the serious crimes which they committed. Followers of Branham's teachings in Colonia Dignidad were portrayed in the 2015 film Colonia. To his American audiences, Branham claimed several high profile events occurred during his international tours. Branham claimed to visit and pray for King George VI while en route to Finland in 1950. He claimed the king was healed through his prayers. Researchers found no evidence that Branham ever met King George; King George was chronically ill and died about a year after Branham claimed to heal him.[114][121]

Branham also claimed to pray for and heal the granddaughter of Florence Nightingale at a London airport. Branham's campaign produced photos of an emaciated woman who they claimed to be Nightingale's granddaughter. However, Florence Nightingale never married and had no children or grandchildren. Investigators of Branham's claim were unable to identify the woman in the photograph.[122]

Branham similarly claimed to pray for King Gustaf V while in Sweden in April 1950. Investigators found no evidence for the meeting; King Gustaf V died in October 1950. Branham claimed to stop in Egypt in 1954 while en route to India to meet with King Farouk; however Farouk had been deposed in 1952 and was not living in Egypt at the time. Branham claimed to visit the grave of Buddha while in India, however Buddha was cremated and has no grave. In total, critics of Branham identified many claims which appeared to be false when investigated. Weaver accused Branham of major embellishments.
Branham faced criticism and opposition from the early days of the healing revival, and he was repeatedly accused of fraud throughout his ministry.[124] According to historian Ronald Kydd, Branham evoked strong opinions from people with whom he came into contact; "most people either loved him or hated him".[125][126] Kydd stated that it "is impossible to get even an approximate number of people healed in Branham's ministry."[127] No consistent record of follow-ups of the healing claims were made, making analysis of many claims difficult to subsequent researchers.[128][129] Additionally, Branham's procedures made verification difficult at the time of his revivals. Branham believed in positive confession. He required supplicants to claim to be healed to demonstrate their faith, even if they were still experiencing symptoms. He frequently told supplicants to expect their symptoms to remain for several days after their healing. This led to people professing to be healed at the meetings, while still suffering from the condition. Only follow up after Branham's waiting period had passed could ascertain the result of the healing.[128][129]


A 1947 Vancouver Sun Headline about Branham Campaign
From the early days of the healing revival, Branham received overwhelmingly unfavorable coverage in the news media, which was often quite critical.[112] At his June 1947 revivals in Vandalia, Illinois, the local news reported that Beck Walker, a man who was deaf and mute from birth, was pronounced healed but failed to recover. Branham claimed Walker failed to recover his hearing because he had disobeyed Branham's instruction to stop smoking cigarettes. Branham was lambasted by critics who asked how it was possible the deaf man could have heard his command to stop smoking.[130]

At his 1947 meetings in Winnipeg, Branham claimed to have raised a young man from the dead at a Jeffersonville funeral parlor. Branham's sensational claim was reported in the news in the United States and Canada, leading to a news media investigation to identify the funeral home and the individual raised from the dead. Reporters subsequently found no evidence of a resurrection; no funeral parlor in the city corroborated the story.[131] The same year the news media in Winnipeg publicized Branham's cases of failed healing. In response, the churches which hosted Branham's campaign conducted independent follow-up interviews with people Branham pronounced healed to gather testimonies which they could use to counter the negative press. To their surprise, their investigation failed to confirm any cases of actual healing; every person they interviewed had failed to recover.[124][129][132]

At meetings in Vancouver during 1947, newspaper reporters discovered that one young girl had been in Branham's prayer lines in multiple cities posing as a cripple, but rising to walk after Branham pronounced her healed each time. An investigative reporter suspected Branham had staged the miracle. Reporters at the meeting also attempted to follow up on the case of a Calgary woman pronounced healed by Branham who had died shortly after he left the city. Reporters attempted to confront Branham over these issues, but Branham refused to be interviewed.[133]

Branham was also accused of fraud by fellow ministers and churches that hosted his meetings. In 1947, Rev. Alfred Pohl, the Missionary-Secretary of Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, served as Branham's guide and host at meetings across western Canada. Pohl stated that many people Branham pronounced as healed later died and produced witnesses to validate his allegations. Pohl stated that the numerous deaths "severely tested the faith" of many ministers who had trusted in Branham.[124][129] Pohl also claimed Branham was frequently given and accepted large financial gifts from individuals who he pronounced as healed, including those who subsequently died.[134]

In 1948, W. J. Taylor, a district superintendent with the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, raised concerns again following another wave of Branham meetings and asked for a thorough investigation.[107] Taylor presented evidence that claims of the number of people healed were vastly overestimated, and that multiple people pronounced healed by Branham had subsequently died.[98] While he stated his personal admiration for Branham, the troubling number of deaths led him to suggest "there is a possibility that this whole thing is wrong".[135][107]

Churches in Canada continued to experience crises following Branham campaign meetings as they attempted to explain the numerous failed healings to their congregations.[129] At meetings in Regina, Branham pronounced the wife of a prominent minister healed of cancer. The minister and his wife were overjoyed, and the minister excitedly shared the details of the healing with his radio audience in Ontario later that week. To his surprise, his wife died only days later of her illness. The confusion created by the situation led ministers to claim Branham had deceived them.[136]

According to Kydd, "the controversy surrounding Branham deepened" with time.[98] Kydd reported that by watching films of the revival meetings, "the viewer would assume almost everyone was healed", but "results were less promising whenever follow-up was made."[128] One such case was Carol Strubler, who at age nine in 1954 was prayed for by Branham at a recorded revival in Washington, D.C., when he preached a sermon entitled "The Deep Calleth Unto The Deep". One newspaper reported, "Rev. William Branham of Jeffersonville, Ind., prayed for her and assured the heartbroken mother her daughter would live.[137] A week later the mother told this newspaper she was confident the evangelist's words were true and had cancelled a scheduled visit to St. Christopher's Hospital in Philadelphia." However, Strubbler died "of acute leukemia, just three weeks after [Branham] told her mother she was healed of the fatal sickness."[137] Another case was four-year-old Donny Morton, who was diagnosed with a rare brain condition. At recorded meetings in California during April 1951, Branham pronounced Morton healed, but the child subsequently died in October. His story was published in Readers Digest.[138][139]

Similar allegations came from Branham's European campaigns. Rev. Walter Hollenweger, who served as a translator on Branham's European tours, reported that "very few were actually healed" in the campaigns, and the overwhelming majority pronounced healed by Branham failed to recover. Hollenweger said that while there were a few "well-attested cases of miraculous healing", Branham was "naïve" and "dishonest" and misled his audiences when he reported the number of people healed. Hollenweger was disappointed that Branham refused to acknowledge the numerous failed pronouncements of healings.[140][141]

In 1955, Leonard Steiner, pastor of a Pentecostal church in Zurich Switzerland that hosted a Branham meeting reported cases of failed healing and the negative consequences for members of his congregation.[142] Allegations in Norway led authorities to limit Branham's ability to hold meetings; the Directorate of Health forbade Branham from laying hands on the sick and sent police to his meetings to enforce the order.[143]

Serious allegations also were made following Branham's meetings in South Africa during 1952 and complaints were lodged with government authorities.[144] Michael Plaff, a doctor, was pronounced healed of cancer by Branham during one meeting. In February 1952, the Branham campaign published an article claiming Plaff had visited the hospital the day after he was prayed for and his cure was confirmed by medical tests. However, Plaff had died of his cancer just days after being pronounced healed.[145] A minister attending meetings in Durban with his congregation reported that over twenty people suffering from tuberculosis were pronounced healed by Branham, but all failed to recover. In another case, a woman suffering a heart condition was pronounced healed by Branham, but died less than a week later. A 23-year-old leukemia patient was pronounced healed by Branham, but failed to recover and died about thirteen months later.[145]

The Branham campaign published a book entitled "A Prophet Visit South Africa" to publicize the success of the tour. The book related the details of dozens of healings. Investigators in South Africa followed up on the reported healings and found that 46 of the people Branham said had been healed had failed to recover.[145] After reviewing the results of the investigation, one minister concluded "that the cures claimed are so largely exaggerated as to be almost fraudulent in their claim."[145] When Branham attempted to visit South Africa again in 1965, the South African government placed restrictions on his visa preventing him from holding any healing revivals while he was in the country.[144]

Ern Baxter, who participated in most of Branham's campaigns between November 1947 and 1953 including his tours to India and Europe, reflected on the exaggerated reports of miracles in the healing revival in a 1978 interview. He explained that the allegations eroded the trust of the crowds who attended the healing services.[146]

I remember in the beginning of the healing movement, simply to report a healing would produce great jubilation and praise from congregations. However, the cynicism became so deep that the people’s confidence was diminished. Even to this day, people are affected. People began to circulate healing testimonies which, when they were checked out by reputable journalists and reporters, even those who were friendly to the movement, were found to be false. The percentage of healings that stood up after investigation was embarrassingly low.[146]

— Ern Baxter
Some attendees of Branham's meetings believed that some healings were staged and accused him of selectively choosing who could enter the prayer line.[147] Some people left his meetings disappointed after finding Branham's conviction that everyone in the audience could be healed without being in the prayer line proved incorrect.[147] Branham generally attributed the failure of supplicants to receive healing to their lack of faith.[148] According to Pohl, Hollenweger, and Steiner, Branham's practice of blaming the supplicant for lack of faith was severely damaging in multiple churches and left many people who failed to receive healing in despair.[129][149]

Their expectations had been raised so high, only to be dashed after all the excitement was over. Some seemed to experience a momentary relief from pain, but all too many would discover no lasting benefit. And by that time the healer would be too far away to be questioned or to explain. The sick person would then simply be forced to accuse himself of lack of faith, or in some cases, throw his faith overboard.[150]

— Alfred Pohl
The "word of knowledge" gift used by Branham was also subject to much criticism.[125] Hollenweger investigated Branham's use of the "word of knowledge gift" and found no instances in which Branham was mistaken in his often-detailed pronouncements.[125] Criticism of Branham's use of this gift was primarily around its nature; some asserted that it was a non-Christian practice and accused him of witchcraft and telepathy.[128] Branham was openly confronted with such criticisms and rejected the assertions.[128]

Others alleged that Branham's discernments were not genuine. Many people Branham prayed for were required to first write their name, address, and what they were seeking prayer for on prayer cards. The cards were submitted to Branham's team who would choose the supplicants to be prayed for by Branham and organize the prayer line. Some critics accused Branham's team of sharing prayer card information with Branham before he began his prayer lines.
[/b]

In fact some Christian author activist Hank Hanegraaff, rejected the entire healing revival as a hoax and condemned the movement as cult in his 1997 book Counterfeit Revival. Even his own guys know he's a scammer, except Pastor RoyalDiadems, the maga
Quite an interesting guy, aint it?
Omo the guy na SCAMMER
About Benson Idahosa, I got this…
A claim made by Idahosa that he had raised eight people from the dead was dropped when challenged by the Advertising Standards Authority, who sought evidence that the individuals concerned had in fact been dead
Again, do u see how these scammers get slippery when asked for evidence? Na only Pastor RoyalDiadems and some mumu dem dey scam

RoyalDiadems:
We do not ignore medical treatments. Most times, we seek divine divine healing only after exhausting options. So, Oyedepo's clinics or hospitals do not negate the occurrence of divine healings.

Yes, I mentioned RCCG in my former post, that refers to Adeboye, perhaps you don't know.

Reinhard Bonkke was given a divine mission to Africa. Thousands of miracles happen in each of his crusades. You mean he fabricated millions of miracles during his entire missionary activities in Africa? Is that not a joke taken too far? By now millions of people whose miracles were mere fabrications would have spoken out. His crusades are attended by Christians and non Christians alike. Most times, non Christians attend his crusades when they see that a neighbor who attended a crusade received a miracle. They often know what ailments that neighbor had been battling with, so they follow the next day to see things for themselves. That's why his crusades record increasing attendants from day to day.

Now, I can understand that the devil works hard to completely seal some people away from the truth. These set of people would never see God in anything even when it's happening right in front of them.

You wouldn't need me to give you verifications of miracles. These are not things done in secret. Do visit the recommended venues and take up the challenge.

Actually, its the other way round. People go to the hospital when miracles don't happen. Thus u hear phrases like "God would 'perfect' his healing when you take drugs". Wtf! Why doesn't god just plain heal me instead of allowing me to suffer more and allow me spend more money(even when he knows I'm afraid pauper) in the hospital? So why set up the hospitals or medical departments if the healing is cheaper and faster? I mean if I know praying would heal me of an ailment, why would I bother to walk to the medical department, get a card, wait for ages for the doctor, who would still waste time on tests etc? Only a thick skulled person would do that. But Pastor RD says people go to those clinics first before reaching to God.
From thousands to millions of miracles now, abi? This una scam no dey finish. From your depositions, u obviously didn't read any of those links
Bonnkes' miracles couldn't be verified cos they don't exist. HBO couldnt get any info about the supposed healed people. There was no record of such healings. They were all staged. Same as Oyaks has been staging his since years immemorial. And run into 'thousands'. Same as TB Joshua. If u said you healed someone, provide the name and address of just one person. Just one. They would be investigated and their medical records unearthed. So if he was previously diagnosed with cancer, it would be on record. But Bonnke's people said they don't have any names. So u have been healing anonymous people, right?
Not surprised. Christians don't like researches. They prefer getting stuck in their lies

Even more exposure of your scam pastors here
https://www.thedailybeast.com/john-oliver-exposes-shady-televangelists-fleecing-americans-for-millions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

Have you noticed that when pastors need money or donation, they ask the Congregation. But when any member of the said church needs money, they're told to ask God or sow seed. Isn't it wonderful?
So why didn't the pastor sow seeds or even ask God when he needs money?
I understand y'all Christians gave your life and brain to Christ for safekeeping, but men, una mumu
I had a NYSC girlfriend that was always sowing seed to her church. Babes was always broke but makes sure 10% goes to the pastor so that she'd marry me and we become successful . Long story short, we didn't get married. And she's still single til now , at 39. And last I saw her on Facebook, she's very cachectic. I guess her brain is still with her savior

jaephoenix:
So my good friend, Mr RD, I need verifiable miracles. There are many famous or celebrity christians with many deformities, of which if any of them are healed, that alone wouldn't need verification. Yinka Ayefele, Cobham Asuquo etc have been smitten with different ailments which none of your conmen can heal, despite these celebrities being born again Christians. So heal them, and I believe you. You can't tell me Ayefele, Asuquo etc haven't heard and visited all these scam joints, especially Enenche's, Oyedepo's but guess what, they're still afflicted

I noticed you deftly dodged this post. Got you thinking… oh wait, Christians gave up their brains when they gave their life to Jesus. Oh crap

RoyalDiadems:
These are the rantings of a biased ignoramus.

Oyedepo slapped a witch, so his miracles are fake. Reinhard Bonnke didn't work miracles in Germany, he couldn't heal himself, one dead man he resurrected were verified by jaephoenix to be fake, so all his thousands of miracles are fake. It seems you forgot to mention Adeboye. As for Enenche, you don't even know what to talk about him. He didn't go to hospitals and mortuaries to raise the dead, so the miracles are fake.

So, from all your education and experience as a full blown adult, this is how you arrive at logical conclusions? I shouldn't be surprised anyway, the way you quickly diagnosed my dad to be having subacute appendicitis from my simple narration without asking further questions to first ascertain the facts, already tell much about how you draw your conclusions. If that's how all doctors diagnose cases, then more patients would be going to the mortuaries every day.

I have put up a challenge to you. The challenge is fair enough. Go to those places with a team of researchers. Video camera in hand, including medical equipments for verification of claims. Publish your findings on national TV, let's see out it goes.

If you're not ready to take such a fair challenge, then you have skeletons in your cupboard.

Omo, education to a Christian is a waste.
Did you read any of the links?
I told you Oyedepo's church members rely on medical science for healing and yet he's performing miracles. Does it make sense to you? At least, exercise the remaining part of your brain christianity left for you
Also, its obvious u didn't even read any of those links. Let me drop some more
http://web.archive.org/web/20030404040531/http://allafrica.com/stories/199910070143..
http://web.archive.org/web/20021219175453/http://allafrica.com/stories/199910130141.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20020615225618/http://allafrica.com/stories/199910180198.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030404031724/http://allafrica.com/stories/200201270072.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030404041257/http://allafrica.com/stories/200202260471.html

Go through them, if u dare
That's how your Bonnke works. Please don't start on the 'Thousands of miracles' because none of them were verified. If u read any of my links, u would have known. When the HBO team doing their investigations questioned Bonnke's camp, they said the healed individuals have no medical certificates or diagnosis sheet and they don't keep track of the healed people. Really?
So they don't even keep the records for follow-up purposes. Thats nice isn't it. Quite convenient
U didn't mention Adeboye initially but now u did, u just shot yourself in the foot. That nigga has no verifiable miracles.
Please give me verifications of the miracles Enenche performed. I don't do hearsays or anecdotes
By the way, I don't know you are this thick skulled. I told you I diagnosed ur dad with subacute appendicitis based on your history. Did you even ask me how I arrived at it? Even if he had acute appendicitis, he'd still be on antibiotics before ops

RoyalDiadems:
These are all lies.

Who are the many people that have done these fact fundings? Where did they go? When did they go there? What did they see? Verifiable video recordings of their findings? Video recordings of your assault scene?

I'll be waiting for the full details.

Did you read any of my links? Or u just wanna behave like the regular Christian, who ignores truth

So my good friend, Mr RD, I need verifiable miracles. There are many famous or celebrity christians with many deformities, of which if any of them are healed, that alone wouldn't need verification. Yinka Ayefele, Cobham Asuquo etc have been smitten with different ailments which none of your conmen can heal, despite these celebrities being born again Christians. So heal them, and I believe you. You can't tell me Ayefele, Asuquo etc haven't heard and visited all these scam joints, especially Enenche's, Oyedepo's but guess what, they're still afflicted

RoyalDiadems:
By cases, I mean individual testimonies. I wouldn't share any testimony with you because you'll disbelieve them, and that wouldn't be profitable to you. My advice: Go on a fact-finding tour in those places I recommended to you. Publish your findings openly on national TV. Go to those places with an intention to expose your presumed lies about miracles. Then, let's see what you'll find.

Many people have done these fact finding missions. Read up the links in my previous posts. There's more from where it came from
The problem of doing such tours in Nigeria is cos I may be assaulted or worse. This country is in the shackles of religion, so no anti-religious mission would work. In fact, the police would even mock me for reporting that I was beaten in a church for checking if their miracles were fake. I'd get "wetin carry you go there?"

RoyalDiadems:
Lol. If you think a church like RCCG has been pre-arranging miracles for 40yrs, you're the joker of the century. What do you think? Enenche would be pre-arranging miracles for almost 30yrs and the bubble no go burst? You must be joking.

Or Maldonado of King Jesus' Ministries USA, would be pre-arranging miracles right there in the USA for almost 40yrs, and continue to remain relevant?

Don't allow the devil to deceive you. My own first encounter with creative miracles was in 1990 during a Reinhard Bonkke Crusade. My mum was one of the Ministers on the crusade ground that year. She prayed for a Muslim boy without knowing the nature of his illness. About 10 minutes after the prayer, the boy's family came to my mum, telling her they were muslims, and that the boy she prayed for was both deaf and dumb, but now he hears and speaks. They later went to testify on the altar.

What kind of fake Christianity were you practicing while you were there? Christianity without power is no Christianity. I wouldn't be a Christian if I can't see the manifestation of God's power.

Tonight, I just finished praying for an old woman who has had a fracture on her leg due to an accident. She has medically treated and now she can walk but the leg still gives her pains, also she isn't balanced in her movements. She uses a walking stick.

According to the woman, she said when I was praying, she felt as though someone was straightening one of her veins on that same leg. She said it was as if the vein was not in good condition, and someone was working on it.

She didn't walk out looking healed on that leg but I know she would return with a testimony. Yeah, another testimony loading. Jesus has started working on the leg already.

David Oyedepo, during the 40th year anniversary of Living Faith Church, he said "It's a proof that we're not faking it. If we've been faking it, we wouldn't have gone this far." He was very correct.

Oyedepo has many enemies. Many of his pastors who left his ministry have one thing or the other against him. Especially, due to the mass sacking of pastors in 2005. He sacked more than 3,000 pastors during the time, and over the years, he has sacked even more and more pastors. A lot of them are disgruntled, but no matter what fault they may find with Oyedepo, no one, and I mean, nobody, can ever say he was faking miracles. Gigantic miracles happen in that ministry.

Let me tell you, Enenche is not afraid of any of his doctor colleagues. That man walks in raw power. Go to his church and challenge him on open TV, you would be amazed what you'll find. Don't come here and spew lies to me. I've witnessed his services live and direct. However, if you want to remain ignorant, it's your choice.

1. So I took my time to go through your miracle workers.
Pastor Maldonado, who is a divorced wife abuser, has been accused of scams. His 'miracles' were said to scams(though I haven't verified the claims).
Oyedepo, the witch slapper . In saner climes, he should be arrested for physically assaulting a mentally challenged girl, but Nigeria is a far cry from being mildly sane. The same nigga who predicted the Owo killers would be arrested in June, but were only nabbed in August. Oyedepo has so many gaffes. He's not even known for 'miracles'. Shiloh has a medical department that run full time in patient and out patient. Now tell, how can you be claiming he's a miracle merchant when his members depend on medical science for succour? Lol.
Now Reinhard Bonnke. . Reinhard Reinhard, ma nigga. Hushpuppi dey learn work where dis guy dey. He is the worse of these scammers. He never had any miracles in his native Germany but multiple miracles in Africa. Why? He'd be found out! Germany and many countries have strict scamming laws. U do anyhow, u see anyhow. In Africa, especially Nigeria, we encourage scamming. From individual to government. So ogbeni Bonnke strut his stuff here. His most notorious miracle was resurrection of one Nigerian. I read that story, and I picked up many holes. And my holes were corroborated by many news outlets. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rhetoricraceandreligion/2012/05/was-this-guy-really-resurrected.html
From the 'doctor' review, to the lack of death certificate, to the fresh coffin. All of them screamed fake. In fact the guy was so scammy, he couldn't predict his own death, like TB Joshua. Reinhard Bonnke died of throat cancer, which funnily enough probably resulted from his numerous preachings and crusades . Dude couldn't even heal himself. Nor could any of his cronies like Benny Hinn. His other miracles were also scams https://scribalwell./2019/11/25/the-miracles-of-reinhard-bonnke/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pastor-bonnke-lays-claim-to-miracle-cures-andrew-brown-sees-a-german-evangelist-conducting-one-of-his-four-openair-shows-in-birmingham-this-week-1537347.html%3famp

About Enenche, I don't even know how to talk about him. You say he's walking in power and the nigga doesn't know where hospitals and mortuaries are in Abuja? What better way to demonstrate God's power than walking to those places. Remember Jesus didn't have a permanent spot. He was moving from place to place, doing good.
By the way, have you seen any of your conmen heal an amputee? Lol. That one go expose them. They'll rather go with people with 'HIV' etc which can't be verified
There was a paranormal challenge in the world and all the preachers, shamans etc were told to prove they have powers. None of them could do anything https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

2. About your powerful miracles, I have nothing to say to u. I have told you I have some patients booked for elective lower segment C/S. Pray for their babies to verse, yet you were running around in circles

RoyalDiadems:
The examples are too numerous to mention. How many can I remember?

However, I would advise that you take on a personal research. Visit Prayer City at MFM Headquarters. Tell them your intentions, they'll be very much ready to assist. Also, Dunamis Gospel Centre in Abuja would also be ready to aid your research. In fact, you could view live healing and deliverance sessions on Tuesday mornings if you visit the Headquarters. Everything would happen before your eyes live and direct, and you'll be able to decide whether what you're seeing is fake or real.

Paul Enenche, the Head Pastor of the church and his Wife, Becky Enenche are both medical doctors. They would provide you with documented proofs. Just introduce yourself and make your intentions known.

On Tuesdays, get there early enough to secure a place at the front. The crowd there is always massive. You would see live miracles. You'll see lame people abandoning their wheelchairs and throwing away their sticks. Sick people often come with their diagnosis paper (I don't know what that is called in the hospitals), you'll be able to scrutinize the authenticity of those papers as well as confirm whether a miracle had happened in deed or not.

MFM Prayer City and Dunamis are recommended, not because they're the only places where miracles happen, but because I'm sure they would be willing to cooperate with you and help you on in your research.

Been there, done that. Bros, I was once a die-hard Christian like you. No be today dem begin arrange miracles. Why'd do u think Pastor Chris was banned from South Africa? So since Enenche is a physician, he can't arrange miracles? I have been in practice many years, 18 years or so. I have seen patients with both terminal and non- terminal cases prayed for on their hospital beds. Nothing happened.Sunday evenings are the worst. They disturb us with the prayers. In the end, the patient is the same. Enenche knows if he tries to convince any of his physician friends that those miracles of his are legit, they would tell him to bring proof and invite him to hospitals to preform them. But he only chooses to do them in his church, where the miracle props are already pre-arranged. Why do u think with so many miracles happening, hospitals are overflowing with sick people. Ogbeni leave talk

RoyalDiadems:
You're right. Most Nigerians fail to follow medical directives, then turn around to blame the system while running the church or fetish priest for help.

In spite of that, God still shows them mercies in very numerous cases.

In what cases? Be specific, sire

RoyalDiadems:
Atheist and their way of reasoning.

I challenge you to quote me in bold where I said "Some diseases are caused by demons." I said cases. Or, you do not understand what the term 'cases' mean? Cases are determined on individual bases. One person can have the same sickness as the other. For one, it's caused by gems, for the other, it's a demonic affliction. So, what are you listing here? This is simple logic. There's no list. Demons can cause any type of diseases but not all cases of sickness is demonic. I think I've made it simple enough.

Have you seen a spirit before? Can you analyse it In a laboratory? So, calling for proof for an invisible phenomenon is laughable.

Even in psychiatry, not all cases of mental disorder can be cured. Psychiatrist are faced with tons of incurable mental cases till today. Visit mental. Where insanity is caused by demons, no amount of medication can cure it. Some cases of insanity begin after a demonic dream where the person was attacked. You don't actually know anything.

If you want a proof of these things, go to where deliverance sessions are taking place. Go there as a researcher. Don't stay in the hospital and be dabbling into things that are higher than you.

Bro, once again, try and inquire from another physician about mental health before spewing trash. Cases are also diseases.
And please, just because our healthcare is poor doesn't mean some diseases are incurable. And yes, some diseases are idiopathic, meaning we don't know the cause. What it means is we haven't gotten the cause yet. Many of cases that have been labelled idiopathic cases now have cures because of scientific research. I gave examples of diabetic foot ulcer, stroke etc
And if u say the idiopathic cases were healed by pastors, please give me examples. Verifiable examples

RoyalDiadems:
I didn't say psychiatric diseases are demonic. There's no generalization as far as sicknesses are concerned. A lot of diseases are caused by microorganisms and health mismanagement. There are few demonic cases. Those demonic cases may escape your notice since you are not required to follow up the cases of your referred patients to the end. But, pastors handle such cases when they become the last resort where medicine fails. We thank God for medicine too, it has saved many lives.

Bro, reread what you just said. Youre still saying same thing I did, that psychiatric cases are demon oriented. I didn't say u meant all psychiatric cases. Please can u enlighten me on those cases that pastors eventually healed after referrals. Give me the hospital they went etc. The truth is Nigerians are dishonest. Someone would be told to be taking his haldol everyday and warned that defaulting would cause him to relapse. Instead of continuing the drugs, he stops the drugs and when there is a relapse, his people drag him into the church and tells them the hospitals cannot treat his case. Or happens time after time

Just so u know, psychiatric diseases have organic or somatic causes. That is why there are specific drugs targeted at different parts of the brain to handle them. They aren't demonic, Mr RoyalDiadems

RoyalDiadems:
1. I didn't say some ailment types a demonic. So, no list is needed. What I said was that not all 'cases' are demonic. When demons inflict sickness, medical science has no solution to it. It's either it continues to defy medication or, as one sickness heals, another surfaces.

2. The article was for your reference. Since medicine is your field, your submission about the article would be taken as good authority. However, my position on demonic illness isn't based on any article anywhere. Rather, it's based on practical day to day experience.

You see, demons are real and are able to cause diseases. You can't prove that clinically because demons are invisible things. However, their influences cannot be denied.

The matter is like the issues of the mind. You can't see the mind. It's invisible but you can see its influence.

Whoa. Theist logic. Quite a wonderful thing

Pastor RD: Some diseases are caused by demons
Me: Ok. List diseases caused by demons
Pastor RD: I don't know. I can't prove it but I know
Me: But if u can't prove it, how do you know they are real?
Pastor RD: I said i can't prove it. But I feel it everyday based on my experience
Me: You mean you meet people with demonic diseases regularly?
Pastor RD: My Holy book says they exist, so that means they exist
Me:

MaxInDHouse:
Even the Israelites never got the gospel until after Jesus has walked the earth so you need understanding Sir!

Good. So if the Egyptians never got the gospel, why would they be judged to be 'going against God's standard'?

I remember when covid was new. A doctor said it was demonic. Doctor, not layman. Christian doctor, anyway. That's when I knew religion is a disease

RoyalDiadems:
I do not imply by my statement that he never had any abdominal pain in his life, what I meant was that he never had stomach ache related to appendicitis. However, I may agree with you that he might have been managing series of mild occurrences before the unbearable one surfaced. I'm not in position to dispute that, since I wasn't the victim.

Now, regarding demonically influenced diseases, you're wrong. Not all cases of sickness are demonic but there are some that are clearly demonic.

There's what is called a spirit of infirmity. It is used in the realm of witchcraft to cause diseases. Since you're given only to logic, how can you understand?

We know this because we have seen many healings after casting out the spirit of infirmity.

You may want to look into the link below. Though, the article relates to psychology, but if demons can affect mental health as clinically proven in the article, know for sure that bodily health is also vulnerable to demons.

https://www.peertechzpublications.com/articles/APT-5-135.php

I think you should start looking beyond your medical books. Science isn't perfect yet. Science is still developing. There are still a whole lot of incomprehensible phenomenon.

1. Can you list the illnesses that are caused by the 'Spirit of infirmity'?
2. I went through that article, and to be honest, that was plain, premium, perfect bullshit. There was nothing scientific about that. Under the ICD 10 or even 11, no illness, whether somatic or mental, was listed as a mental disease with demon possession. To make matters worse, the author is not a psychiatrist. There was no scientific corroboration. You know the main thing between science and religion? Its universal corroboration. An experiment done in Lagos can be replicated anywhere, anytime, anytime. I found no other scientific proof or literature talking about demon possession in psychiatric illnesses. None. That Perrotta fellow had the ONLY article talking about it, and he had no proof. He is not a qualified psychiatrist even. Just to make sure I hadn't forgotten my psychiatric knowledge, I chatted up one of my psychiatrist colleague and the dude was laughing at the article. No psychiatric association or body knows anything about that and definitely no demon possession can be proven. Its all lies
Science flies in the face of religion

MaxInDHouse:
There's nothing called idols until the true God has been known, all those worshiping their gods (idols) from a sincere hearts have no problem with the true God as long as they don't know better!

Quick question. Did the Egyptians get the gospel?

RoyalDiadems:
Go where God is working.

Which is?

RoyalDiadems:
If you don't understand the import of what I said, then go back and read again.

I don't. And still don't get it after reread. So please expantiate

RoyalDiadems:
Yes!

Not by casting out the demon of Atheism from unwilling 'you'. But by allowing you to witness the move of God in a place, an individual or a congregation. That's what Elijah did.

Good. So make me to witness 'the move of God in a place, an individual or a congregation'. I'm all yours, buddy

RoyalDiadems:
I just laugh at your ignorance. God works through faith. The only reason godless people can boast is because majority of those who claim to serve God are hypocrites who are only obsessed with being religious. They don't pursue God, hence, they can't see the hand of God. Religion is bodily exercise that profits nobody.

Regarding Saul, he persecuted Christians because he thought they were anti-God. Paul was doing it in his zeal for God. He never denied God's existence.

1. So any sick christian is faithless?
2. So the Christians that go hungry or broke 'don't pursue god'?
3. So in your books, Saul who was persecuting(maiming, imprisoning and killing christians) is morally better than me cos he believes in a god and I dont?

MaxInDHouse:
Abstain from what you know is wrong based on what the gods you know says.
So if they get to know the true God they will surely comply with his rules!

Is worshipping idols part of god's standard

RoyalDiadems:
Did Saul ever deny God's existence?

He did worse. He was persecuting and harming Christians. Even me, I haven't harmed any Christians. I just heal them when they present to me(something your powerless god can't do)

MaxInDHouse:
Because they never go against His standard!

What standard are you talking about

RoyalDiadems:
Yeah. We do that every day.

Good. So cast out the spirit of atheism in us. Its a foul spirit that has been challenging the authority of God. We need cleansing. Show us

RoyalDiadems:
Matthew 13:58

And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

Do you understand what happened here in the verse below?

Mathew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Jesus truly healed everyone, but do you have the details of every single healing? I mean the process He undertook to heal each individual.

Out of the myriads of cases I brought, u cherrypicked a couple to retort. What about the many others I sent, including the ones that they used to test him if he would heal someone on a sabbath?

MaxInDHouse:
He did His job perfectly they never go against His standard!

But he allowed your heathen ancestors to be alive

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaa you missed it again!
I thought you people believe in science?
It's the mating that leads to conception so people will continue to mate and produce their kind Max will also grow old and expire just like all other humans. So it's not compulsory that Max exist the chance that i live comes from humans mating and it could be from any other race not necessarily those that were killed!

Yeah, you're alive cos God was too lazy to do his job of smiting your heathen ancestors