₦airaland Forum

Bishopkingsley:
The biblical evidence does not substantiate this. The fact that Michael is called a chief prince only means that he has authority over other angels- not over everything that exists.
In addition, Jesus is never called the chief prince in Scripture. On the contrary He is the king of kings and Lord of Lords.Though Michael has protected Israel, it is as God's representative. It is ultimately the Lord, not Michael, who is protecting His chosen people.

Voice Like

The fact that Christ comes with the voice, or cry of command, like an archangel does not mean that He is one. The voice He uses will be "like" or "as" that of an archangel. In other words, a powerful voice.

Michael Highest Of Angels

Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings. He is one of the angels, he is not the Creator of the angels as the Bible says that Jesus is.

for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16).

There is a further problem with the identification of Jesus with Michael. The Book of Jude says:

But when the archangel Michael contended with the Devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9).

Michael is obviously not the Lord. He could not rebuke the Devil on his own, but rather called upon the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus has no such problem with the Devil - He personally rebuked him, since He is the Lord.

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Then the Devil left Him, and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him (Matthew 4:10,11).

His Name Bears Testimony

Michael, the one who is closest in proximity to the Lord at the top of the angelic creation, bears testimony to the great gap between the Creator and the created. His name means, "who is like God?" The answer, of course, is no one. The closer one gets to God, the more they realize their own nothingness and His greatness. Neither Michael, nor any of the angels, is like God.

His Name Bears Testimony

Michael, the one who is closest in proximity to the Lord at the top of the angelic creation, bears testimony to the great gap between the Creator and the created. His name means, "who is like God?" The answer, of course, is no one. The closer one gets to God, the more they realize their own nothingness and His greatness. Neither Michael, nor any of the angels, is like God.

Summary

There is no biblical evidence to equate Michael the archangel with Jesus. To the contrary, Jesus and Michael are two different personages. Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings while Jesus is the uncreated Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son.

johnw47:
Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool:

deceiving fraud jw janosky

truly, the name/title Mighty God and Almighty God in the bible is referring to
the one true God, and not to two gods, and not to angels

oh heap big know nothing

shadeyinka:
Rev 13:8:
"And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

22jumpstreet:
Should I tell them that their Jesus never existed. That he is just a Roman creation or invention..?

Or I should just step back and read comments..

johnw47:
false jw mad max

you polytheist false jw's have two god's: a mighty god
and a almighty god

the truth is Mighty God and Almighty God is referring to
the one true God, not two gods: a mighty god jesus and a almighty god the father

Mighty God is YAHWEH

Deu_7:21  Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.
Psa_50:1  A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
Psa_132:2  How he sware unto the LORD, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob;
Psa_132:5  Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.
Isa_10:21  The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
Jer_32:18  Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,
Hab_1:12  Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.


Almighty God is Yahweh

Gen_17:1  And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Eze_10:5  And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.
Rev_19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Gen_28:3  And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;
Gen_35:11  And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
Gen_43:14  And God Almighty give you mercy before the man, that he may send away your other brother, and Benjamin. If I be bereaved of my children, I am bereaved.
Gen_48:3  And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,
Exo_6:3  And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

shadeyinka:
That's why even the Father calls the Son God

Ps 45:6-7:
"Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the scepter of your kingdom is a right scepter. You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows."

Sorry, please find another argument

shadeyinka:
See how you twist words "....beginning of all other things".
How was the Word formed?

Jesus is called first born of all creation meaning PREEMINENT with respect to
Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth ().

As firstborn from the dead.

If Jesus created all things, he can not be a creature else God Himself would be created by the Word


Colossians 1:16,17
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together (

2 Questions for all Trinitarians:
Trinitarians, Did Jesus Christ create his Father?
Was Jesus Christ dead before he was born?
Was Reuben PREEMINENT because he was dead before birth?

Genesis 49:3 & Colossians 1:15 meaning the same thing.
Trinitarians LYING like kilode

Romans 11:35-36. Jesus came through his Father.
1 Corinthians 1:24. Proverbs 8:22-30, Jesus is the first born Creature personified as "Wisdom."

Genesis 49:3, Reuben is PREEMINENT because he is first born.
Jesus Christ too is PREEMINENT because he is first born of all creation meaning he came through the Father, Romans 11:35-36. Col 1:15.
KJV deliberately refused to use PREEMINENT for Reuben @ Genesis 49:3. E get why

Your Trinitarian mentors knew he was the angel of Jehovah @ Genesis16:7,13 Amplified Bible & Geneva Bible, Daniel 10:13

MaxInDHouse:
Please brother Janosky, each time you use this phrase in the highlighted i don't feel it's right because i bear them witness that most of this people have a zeal for God but not according to accurate knowledge {Romans 10:2-3} so don't think they are lying because deep down their hearts they feel they're doing what is right even when they can't come up with one line of thought under their god!

EFULEFU1:
9. JWs make mockery of Jesus everyday ; mocking at His deity, same thing the High Priest and elders did to Jesus when He stood before them In trial

10. Jws lie that, Jesus' ressurection wasn't physical; for them, Jesus' body corrupted

s

Mr LIENUS, John 20:17 & John14:28, did Jesus tell you he is equal to God his Father?

John 19:6-7, did the Jews themselves refute their own FALSE claim @ John 5:18?

Revelation 3:12, did Jesus tell you he is deity?
Revelation 3:12, Efulefu,who does your deity worship?

10.
John 17:4-5,24 "Father give me the glory I had before Creation of the world".
Was Jesus Christ a human when he was given glory in heaven?
Would Jesus receive back the glory as human?
.
John 17:4-5, Jesus Christ proven your claim is Spurious

EFULEFU1:
8. Jws have doctored the Bible to form their nwt to make Jesus an angel and a god

LIAR
John 1:1, Moffat Bible.
Theologians James Moffat & Goodspeed are your Trinitarian mentors.

John 1:1,Goodspeed Bible
Bros, go and confirm.

Did the Greeks Bible refute your claim?
Do you know Greek language more than the Greeks?
Did the Screenshots proven you are LYING?

EFULEFU1:
7. Jws say Jesus is angel Michael when the Bible says Jesus is God and Saviour; by extension the saviour of jws is angel Michael

EFULEFU1:
Jehovah witnesses hate Jesus to the bone

JWs believe in Jesus Christ & his TEACHINGS
@ John 14:1 & John 20:17, John 7:16, the doctrine Jesus received from his God and Father.
Matthew 4:10, we Obey Jesus.
JWs refuse to worship 2 persons which you Efulefu & All polytheists are doing.

EFULEFU1:
4. The Bible is clear that Jesus created all things (Colossians 1:16) but Jws say NO, it was their God Jehovah who first created Jesus and Jesus created all other things wow

5. The Bible commands us to do ALL things in the Name of JESUS, jws say no, they will do all things in Jehovah

6. Jws will not sing or listen to a song containing JESUS, they will rather sing a dirge. Same Jesus who is worshipped by even angels

S

Colossians 1:15-16, did Jesus the first born of every creature create his Father?
Polytheists wey no deh reason on the scriptures
Romans 11:35-36, who came through the Father?
Jesus of course!

Yes !
John 9:4, we follow Jesus to work for his Father.
John 17:4-5, we are JEHOVAH'S gift to his son.
Na Jesus Christ talk am, argue with him. .

1 Corinthians 3:23 apostle Paul agreed.
The man who had a personal encounter with Jesus. Na so Jesus tell am.

EFULEFU1:
Jehovah witnesses hate Jesus to the bone

1. Jesus told His disciples to witness Him (Jesus) in Acts 1:8 but Jws say they will rather witness Jehovah

2. The Bible calls Jesus God (Isaiah 9:6, John 14:8-9, john 20:28, Colossians 1:16 etc) yet jws say Jesus is a god.

3. Jesus said all eyes will see him when he appears again, jws say Jesus appeared invisibly in 1914 Even they themselves didn't see him; this is madness

SeniorGee:
Jehovah of the old testament is the same Jesus Christ of the new. The Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Spirit in dwelling inside you and me. The same God manifesting in three offices. Only Jesus Christ, of all prophets and servants of God in the Bible accepted worship. Jesus never used "Thus saith The Lord!" He uses "verily I say unto you!" The Jews wanted to stone Him in John 10:30 because they understood what He meant when He said I and my father are one!
He is more than a man, in Him is the fullness of the Godhead dwelling, Col 2:9. Rev 1:8, Rev 4:8. God bless

Nicenancy:
Funny the ANTICHRIST couldnt speak to the verse (John 1:1)

Jesus is God Almighty

Broveens42:
Be careful, you might even be the Anti Christ

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the FLESH, is not of GOD ; and such is the spirit of ANTICHRIST, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already it is in the world.

is the creator of flesh a flesh?
Religion sef

EFULEFU1:
JESUS WAS KILLED FOR BLASPHEMY (HE CLAIMED TO BE GOD)

Matthew 26:64-66

[64] Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man (JESUS) sitting at the right hand of the Power,�, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”���

[65] Then the high priest tore his clothes,�� saying, “HE (JESUS) has spoken blasphemy! �What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!�
[66] What do you think?” They answered and said, “He is deserving of death.”���

JESUS IS GOD�

splendournoni:
Jesus christ is God in human form... as you are confused I pray you accept him as your lord and savoour so that he can show you deep truths...

Muhammed died as a man and was buried but Jesus christ was raised on the third day,glory to God
Accept him and enjoy the good life

Emusan:
[s]Now You see how the dumb JaNosense is exposing his ignorance the more.
[/s]
For Tyndale to use a lower case in verse 1 for God which the Word is with, shows that the second God and the First God means the same thing to Tyndale.

Now, as you've been lying, isn't the same thing other Trinitarian Bible said?

But your demonic translation changed it to "A god"

Emusan:
[s]You forgot this is your first attribute with the name JaNosense
Keep crying, I enjoy your cry

[/s]


Las Las you will still never find where Jesus is called Micheal



See the clown talking when in reality he's the very one who refuse the Biblical truth when Bible openly say Gabriel is the Angel of the Lord.

Emusan:
Was it not the same reason you claimed ALL ANGELS are called Angel of Jehovah when no where to hide your shameless lying face?



Not only that you added that John the Baptist, elders in heaven, Moses, Aaron, even yourself and the 8 old men in New York are ALL ANGELS (since they are sent by Jehovah) that means JaNosense is also an Angel of Jehovah

I love this show

ALL angels belong to JEHOVAH their God.
Genesis 16:7, Daniel 10:13, Jesus the archangel Michael is "ha malak,"the angel of (the Lord) Jehovah.
You can't change the Biblical proof of your Trinitarian mentors.

Emusan:
JaNosense always spews nonsense as his name implies.

William Tyndale John 1:1 "1In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word."

What do you notice here?
Tyndale used lower case "god" in the two cases.

But the lying liar JWs won't see that.

No wonder he couldn't answer why Tyndale Bible so differ from his demonic translation

Emusan:
The same screenshot you couldn't learn from before you start your ranting.

Moses is an Angel, Aaron is an Angel, John the Baptist is an Angel

Even the screenshot says the human elders in Revelation is an Angel.

Emusan:
God sent MOSES and Aaron, that made them Jehovah Angels.

Sense truly far from you.

So John the Baptist is also an ANGEL, wonders of watchtower delusion

Emusan:
Las Las, no where says Jesus is Michael.

@Daniel 10:13 & Genesis16:7, Judges 6:11 reads " the angel of the Lord", the same Archangel Michael, Jesus Christ in heaven.
Who leads angels in glory, 2 Thess 1:7-9 & Matthew 25:31, Revelation 12:7-9.
"The angel of the Lord,"Archangel Michael says: " Jehovah rebuke you"
Zechariah 3:2= Jude 1:9

freshboi88:
Seems you are a Muslim. But u r using the scripture to deny the deity of Jesus.

First of all, you are wrong in your initial assertion inferring that angels are inferior to man. In God's hierarchy angels are superior beings to man. Let me prove it from scripture.

Hen 2:7You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor.

So you see Christ becoming man made him a little lower than the angels or angelic beings.

So u say u r not meant to worship Jesus..another lie....To not worship Jesus is not not believe in the one who sent him. Let me prove it again with scripture.

New International Version
John 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

My brother you are to honor the Son just as u honor the Father. That is what Yahweh commands you to do.

So my question for u which is rhetorical is how exactly do you honor Jehovah?

1. Is it in prayer, praises, worship and what have u ?

Jehovah wants u to honor Jesus in the same way. For if u don't honor Jesus in the same way u would honor Jehovah, then u don't honor Jehovah.


My brother them lie give u oh...go and read your Bible. Jesus is God because Jehovah is not in the business of idolatry

Perfectbeing:
Even if the word "prayed to" was used, you would have still said it didn't mean Jesus was prayed to.. After all, people pray to judges. You would have said it wasn't "literally" praying to Jesus..

Same way after Jesus was called everlasting father by Isaiah, you guys claimed Father isn't Father in the real sense..

Ddokie:
Simpy question you can't answer: is Jesus God, Man or Angel? you giving me bible passage.



I am going to visit my father in the east, i am also a father myself.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
Context!!, janosky, Context!!!

@ John 1:1 , who is Greek 3588 2316?
According to Jesus Christ @ John 14:1, who is Greek 3588 2316?
According to apostle John @ Greek John 1:1 & John 14:1, who is Greek 3588 2316 "the God"?
@ Greek Ephesians 1:3, John 1:1, 2 Corinthians11:31, who is Greek 3588 2316?
Bros, no dey DECEIVE yourself jare.

Emusan:
You have moved from Williams Tyndale now to another thing, typical brainwashed JWs.




Always attacking strawman argument, your demonic translation will remain demonic.

Remember your translation also inserted many fraudulent words.



So to be sent to make one be an Angel

O ma se o o
You always represent this your name wella JaNosense.



God sent MOSES and Aaron, that made them Jehovah Angels.

Sense truly far from you.



So John the Baptist is also an ANGEL, wonders of watchtower delusion

When you finally receive sense kindly let me know.

Perfectbeing:
If the word "called" was used for God, wouldn't it mean he prayed to God? If the verse said "... they went of stoning Steven as he called on Jehovah and said, Jehovah, receive my spirit.." Wouldn't that mean he prayed to Jehovah? Would you say he didn't prayed to but called on Jehovah?

Ddokie:
To help you, because it is obvious you have an issue with understanding.

My point (which even a 10 year old would have gotten since) is that if it isn't wrong to use the word "prayer" when approaching a magistrate, it cannot be wrong to use the word prayer when trying to make a request from Jesus. To pray simply means to request.

The question you now must answer is: do you believe that Jesus exists, and if you believe he exists, in what form do you think he is existing now - God, Angel or Man? If your answer is Angel or Man, then we have no basis for discussion because that is the crux of the matter. If your answer is God, then you shouldn't have a problem making a request from him because God is Omnipresent.

sagenaija:
Remember where we progressed from: Is Jesus just an angel or MORE THAN an angel.

I referred to Hebrews 1:3 which says that the Son is the exact representation of God's being.
I also said that in Phil. 2:6 we are told that Jesus' very nature is God.

You still insisted that:


You then brought in John 1:1 using your translation to try to show that the Word was 'a god'.
You posted this:

Your pal janosky joined you in this, attempting to show that your translation of John 1:1 was the better one. Both of you were exchanging views.

I brought in a video by a man who explained the Greek construct of John 1:1. You pushed it aside as it were.
You then vied off into your idiom on looking at the dress that a person who wants to give you one is wearing. And thereafter what you said was:


How looking at Scripture is now being an issue I wouldn't know. That was when I reminded you of your earlier statement:


You have REPEATEDLY refused to answer many questions I raised, including whether you are disowning your above statement.

The bottom line is this: KNOWING comes before DOING. Right KNOWLEDGE is what will lead to right APPLICATION and right LIVING. I mean acceptable living before God.

John 1:1 CLEARLY shows that Jesus is God. He is more than an angel. John 1:18 corroborates this his status. I have shown you guys that even the Strong's screenshots you pasted also talks about the word in John 1:1 later portion to include it being used as "supreme deity". The word can be 'God' or 'god'; context will determine the usage. The article 'a' is not there in the Greek. So, how did your translation come about that? Changing the translation to make it conform to a [b]DOGMA doesn't cut it. You have to shift your standards from one portion of Scripture to another and engage in TWISTS and TURNS to do that. At the end of the day you end up accepting not what the Scripture says Jesus is[/b] but what you want him to be: a person of your own creation. That is being disingenuous.

Sagenaija where you see "is" @ John 1:1?
He done shepaly add "is"...

The truth is straight forward jare

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
This is why I find it hard to engage you in any meaningful discussion.
I ONLY pointed you to what YOU pasted up there from Strong's. I didn't bring up ANYTHING new. Check what you pasted and see if what I mentioned is not listed there. Check your screenshots. Is it simple enough now?

The million dollars question is :
how should English translate the same Greek 1510 Greek 2316 @Acts 28:6 & John 1:1?
On this matter, NWT/JWs did NOT shift the goal post!

You posted YouTube video of a man whose claim disparage John 1:1 NWT.
It is the same Greek 1510 Greek 2316 @ Acts 28:6 & John 1:1, is your YouTube friend dishonest?

Perfectbeing:
So you mean this wasn't a prayer to Jesus? Acts 7:59-60
[59]And while they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, Lord Jesus, receive and accept and welcome my spirit!
[60]And falling on his knees, he cried out loudly, Lord, fix not this sin upon them [lay it not to their charge]! And when he had said this, he fell asleep [in death].

Ddokie:
If you lack understanding i cannot help you.

Have you not seen the word "prayer" in legal documents before?
https://definitions.uslegal.com/p/prayer-for-relief/.

candelahria:
If you like pray to the Father,Jesus or the Holy Spirit.If you pray in Jesus name,God will answer because they are one and they agree.Period.