₦airaland Forum

QuinQ:
Oga, see my previous post. STOP CHERRYPICKING THE BIBLE!!! You'd get lost in details and minutae. Taking everything together do you really believe that the person who came some 2000 years ago was Angel Michael or even a little like him or like Moses or like any person who came before then or who has come since then?

Ruke1991:
Don't even go to the book of revelation because JW doesn't get a single verse correct in that entire book of the bible. People who don't believe in being born again, second coming of Christ, the
resurrection of the just and rapture cannot understand events of the afterlife or end time escatology. I am even surprised you guys believe Jesus is still alive (given that you believe he is the man moses). How were you able to comprehend the fact that Jesus is not late or that he is alive?

QuinQ:
Read screenshot below written by your fellow JW.

I don't know what you gain by twisting what Christ said. See His words below, verbatim and in conext. But the thing is, it was foretold in the OT that God was comming to dwell amongst us (Everlasting Father, Mighty God, Emmanuel). JohnTB came just to prepare His way. When He finally came He said directly Himself that He was God (and Jews tried to stone Him for saying that). Over 2000 years later He's still being worshipped as exactly that: God!
WHAT ELSE WILL IT TAKE TO PROVE TO YOU HE IS INDEED GOD??!!
How many times did Angel Michael come to earth? Were there any extensive foretellings and preparations before he came??

John 14:
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?

Ruke1991:
you don't make any sense. You are the one that insisted on original greek manuscript because you want to win argument- not because you want to learn. I gave you a link to biblehub for a word for word translation of the original greek manuscript. It doesn't say that jesus WAS (formally) in the form of God. It doesn't use past tense. So don't alter the bible for argument purposes. It rather uses a present continuous tense. That's why king James says, "Who being in the form of God....". Jesus was not formally God, but still continues to be God. Refer to the original manuscript of that chapter and end all arguments forthwith

You know the original manuscript has no punctuation marks: no commas, hyphen, colon or full stop. So you are trying to play around that lapse to destroy the meaning of that text in the original manuscript. Even without punctuation, it reads I know word for word may make it loose some meaning, for example, God existing in a contextual translation will be: who exists in the form of God or who in form is existing God. But let's leave out contextual translation and go with word for word translation so that you don't have any further excuses:

Word for word, it reads:
"Who in the form of God existing" before saying, "something not to be grasped considered". Why do you throw away the word considered which followed grasped in the original manuscript. Because you want to hide the meaning of the statements

Ruke1991:
The Bible says that angels worship Jesus.
Hebrews 1:6 states, "And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him.'" worship here is greek word for worship ("proskynēsatōsan". So what are you going to do now?

Bending your knees down before any spirit is actually an act of worship. That's why Ex 20:5,6 instructs us not to bow down to any gods or serve them. Stop confusing your culture with Jewish culture. Jewish obeisance has nothing to do with bowing down your knees as .modecai resisted that for the very reason that Jews consider it idolatry to bow down to any other except God. In Jewish context which is bible context, bowing down to any spirit or creature is worship not obeisance

Ruke1991:
Heaven is not a house - it's beyond that. A complete study of the book of revelation reveals the fact that heaven has God, angels, healing trees, and even beasts that worship God. Those beasts are clearly defined has having face and features of animals eg lion. So we cannot say everything in heaven takes on thesame form of existence. All living things in heaven have different forms of life ie God, angels, 24 elders (whatever it means), beasts, trees. They all exist in the spirit realm just like how humans, animals, trees are different life forms here on the physical realm

Ruke1991:
The greek text is "morphe" which means "form". And that texts in Phil 2:6 word for word greek translation reads:

"who although existing in the form of God, not something to be grasped, considered - to be equal with God".

The fact that Jesus is God is not something Paul expected JW will find so hard to grasp- but it's disappointing.

The word form is "morphe". So before you start attacking words. I cited other translation using that word "form" as well. Use this bible gateway link and see the original greek texts in full word for word interpretation.
https://biblehub.com/text/philippians/2-6.htm

QuinQ:
You are quoting indirect things.
Here are statements Jesus Christ made directly to everyone around (not indirectly to one person as in your quotes), so everyone heard Him DIRECTLY:

** I and the Father are one

** The Father is in Me and I am in the Father

** Jesus said unto him, “Have I been so long a time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, ‘Show us the Father’?

When your Father sends you to give me a Letter you bring to me, having seen you QuinQ, have I seen your Father?

Oga, did Jesus make the statement in Revelation 3:12 in the spiritual realm?

The inspired expression of Hebrews 6:13 came from QuinQ?

QuinQ:
**
Everything you wrote people said in favor of JW, you can find 10 times more people saying worse against JW. Then there is the robot-like cultish following of governing board and disfellowship that negates everything

Nah so you dey follow your pastorpreneurs.
You buy their tapes, cleave to anything they say,buy anointing oil to protect you while a retinue of bodyguards protect them in your church altar to their residential houses.

QuinQ:
Emmanuel is a statement. Simply means "God with us" NOT "Archangel with us". Why do you not believe God was with us?

QuinQ:
That's what I've always said.
BTW angel Michael was/is a servant of Gid with specific duties. Who was doing those duties while he was playing THE only begotten Son?

QuinQ:
** I and the Father are one
** The Father is in Me and I am in the Father

QuinQ:
** He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, ‘Show us the Father’?

Jesus Christ HIMSELF said these DIRECTLY to groups of people. Why do you still not believe Him? I just want to know WHY.

Emusan:
Tell me what those verses say in the first place.



If they all share the same NATURE as Jehovah God then it means you have multiple Gods.

because Only God's NATURE makes God to be God.

That is why THERE'S NO ONE LIKE GOD.



See this one

Were you not the one who claimed above that even DISCIPLES also SHARE the same NATURE with Jehovah God now now

So is STATUS different from NATURE?

Did you know that it was NATURE of God that makes God to be God?[ /quote][quote author=Gabrielshow24 post=135441603]I still don't get what they don't understand 🤨 about trinity. Every trinitarian knows for a fact that the Father and the Son are two different identities!

They are just looking about to further their own propaganda 🤨 but we are certainly not buying it😂.

achorladey:
The moment you tell them where was it allowed that what they called blood components is a conscientious matter for Jehovah's witnesses and why what they call the major blood fractions is not a conscientious matter they pick race.

Truthseeker10:
The concept of God is beyond human capacity and you are teaching me that Jesus has a lower peak of divinity yet he is divine as the Father? Na wa oo😂😂

QuinQ:
He was saying Jesus was not named Michael because it is name belonging to the spiritual realm

QuinQ:
Here is the ultimate question:
HOW DO YOU KNOW??!!
Answer: YOU DON'T!!!
Not only don't you know how the spiritual realm works, you are INCAPABLE of grasping how the spiritual realm works!!
It is like somehow whose entire world and thinking is limited to straight lines trying to understand a sphere!

QuinQ,
So you know spiritual realm more than Jesus Christ @
Revelation 3:12 ?


Oga,so you know spiritual realm more than the spirit led apostle Paul inspired to pen Hebrew 6:13?


Oga, that copy of your Bible you cherish so much, do you have Revelation 3:12 & Hebrew 6:13 in it?

Please STOP DECEIVING yourself.

Emusan:
So the NATURE OF GOD DOESN'T MAKE GOD TO BE GOD, then what make God to be God?



Good which means I can say the truth.



@color-red: Re-read what you wrote again and again to see it doesn't make any sense.

@color-blue: It's good as you acknowledge the usage of the imperfect verb "WAS" as being used.

The intent of the author is to convey the NATURE of the WORD. So, God is the Word will be wrong but THE WORD WAS GOD which is about NATURE.

Any interpretation other than this is fraudulent.

Also, I like how you also acknowledge that Jesus was the foundation of the CREATION which means He wasn't CREATED.

Which means Jesus is God because Only God is UNCREATED.



One thing very astonish about you people when it comes to this verse is lack of simple comprehension or basic English.

This verse is the one that boldly says JESUS IS EQUAL TO GOD but IT DIDN'T CONSIDER THIS EQUALITY SOMETHING TO BE TAKEN BY FORCE because He already HAS IT then HUMBLED HIMSELF.

Below is how @grok explained it.

The challenge for you is to look for a good English teacher who is neither a Christian nor familiar with Bible, give the person this verse to explain what it means to you. Then come and gist me.

Also, the fact that this verse equivocally says Jesus HAVING "THE FORM(NATURE) OF GOD" shows Jesus is God which the author later affirmed.



Read the two @color-red side by side to see how illogical it sounds.

If The Son isn't EQUAL TO THE FATHER he can't say people should HONOR HIM JUST AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER.

The assignment for you here, walk to any person you know is older than you and respect your dad/mum in your area and tell the person "Sir/Ma, I want you to be respecting me JUST AS you do respect my dad/mum"

Let's see how the person will react.

Or better still, let any guy you're older than ask you to be respecting him JUST AS you do respect his mum/dad, if you will not beat hell out of the person.

You have to REMOVE Hebrew 6:13 , John 14:28&
1 Corinthians 11:3 from your Bible to prop up that script you invented.


Jesus Christ,the disciples and Jehovah God share the same nature, John 17:22.

NO OTHER Being share the same status with Jehovah God, Paul and Jesus Christ said so.

QuinQ:
*People are named Michael today
*There is a huge difference between knowing the difference between good and bad and CHOOSING to do good, and not knowing the difference at all to start with
*My friend, Angel Michael was not Jesus. Stop disgracing yourself and making me little angry. Michael was a servant, a messenger. That's all. Hence the Devil told Jesus His Father would send His angels (Michael) to make sure His toe did not strike upon a rock (if He threw Himself down)

People are also named Jesus till this very day.
The name Joshua is the same as Jesus.

QuinQ:
Who is accusing you of anything?? Jesus Christ is God. Either you believe it or you don't. Case closed

Ruke1991:
Jesus has the nature of God.
That's why he is God.

Ruke1991:
He is worshipped by angels. Angel cannot worship angel.

Ruke1991:
Abi you have not read my previous verses where bible said God [the father] has put all things under Jesus. And all things must bow including all things on earth, in heaven and all things below the earth.

Ruke1991:
The king James version rather says, "who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery [was not offended to be temporarily deprived his godly nature] to be equal with God, but made himself"

Ruke1991:
JW members have human nature and are considered human. JW members exist in human form - not in animal form or angel form or God form. So we cannot consider them animal or angel.
Michael exists in form of angel. Jesus exists in form of God. Moses existed in form of man.

Ruke1991:
The Transfiguration of Jesus as described in Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:2-10, and Luke 9:28-36 shows the appearance of Moses, Elijah to Jesus and the apostles. How then is Jesus=Moses and yet appearing as two distinct persons on the mount to the view of Peter and other apostles.

Ruke1991:
JW for the last time, be warned! Desist from the error of your elders

Ruke1991:
Using the very translation you quoted,

Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in his very nature God.." Other translations say, "Who exists in the form of God..."

Phil 2:
6 Who, being in his very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing [willfully downgraded himself tem
porarily to accept human nature] by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Jesus has the nature of God. That's why he is God. He is worshipped by angels. Angel cannot worship angel. Abi you have not read my previous verses where bible said God [the father] has put all things under Jesus. And all things must bow including all things on earth, in heaven and all things below the earth.

The king James version rather says, "who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery [was not offended to be temporarily deprived his godly nature] to be equal with God, but made himself"

Your Trinitarian rendition of Philippians 2:6 is NOT correct.
The Trinitarians REMOVED morphé meaning form & ADDED "nature."
"Thought it not robbery" (KJV), is not in the Greek manuscript.
Na so wayo take dey start dey deceive people.


Oga, check the screenshot evidence of Mounce Greek interlinear word for word of Philippians 2:6 & NOTICE the difference conflicting against all your Trinitarian biased versions you quoted.

QuinQ:
First answer me, how can Jesus and the Father be ONE and how can they simultaneously dwell in people all over tha place??
These, like your rudimentary questions, are not answerable from human perspective!

QuinQ:
Define archangel and show source of your definition.
And also tell us why Peter didn't yell "archangel!"

QuinQ:
Do you think "archangel" is Hebrew or Greek?
You obviously don't know the meaning of "archangel" which is a compound word

Greek lexicon 743
arxággelos (from 758 /árxōn, "of the first order, chief" and 32 /ággelos, "angel" – an archangel; an angel of the highest rank (see Dan 10:13, 12:1; see also Lk 1:19; Rev 8:2, 12:7); "a ruler of angels, a superior angel, an archangel" (Souter).

Screenshot evidence with Bible references:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

MaxInDHouse:
Apart from Michael please quote a verse where another is called Archangel?

QuinQ:
Ok, so there are seven ONLY begotten son of God since there are 7 archangels

QuinQ:
Who told you I'm a "Trinitarian"?
You should have asked them why Peter did not answer that Jesus was angel Michael

Job 1:6 , Job 2:1, angel meaning son of God.

Jesus Christ is an angel,son of God.
@ John 5:28, Jesus Christ is doing the work of archangel Michael @Daniel 12:2.
He quoted John 5:28 from Daniel 12:2.

@ Genesis 3:15
We read of the Serpent as well as the Seed who defeated the serpent.
John the apostle revealed their identity @ Revelation 12:7-9 & 1st John 3:8.

IYKYK

Ruke1991:
If he is not God, can you explain Phil 2:6?

Lot of verses given to you guys already. If you are not brainwashed try to reason it with your own brain - stop viewing bible only through your elders eyes - use your own

QuinQ:
*People are named Michael today
*There is a huge difference between knowing the difference between good and bad and CHOOSING to do good, and not knowing the difference at all to start with
*My friend, Angel Michael was not Jesus. Stop disgracing yourself and making me little angry. Michael was a servant, a messenger. That's all. . Hence the Devil told Jesus His Father would send His angels (Michael). to make sure His toe did not strike upon a rock (if He threw Himself down)

At no time did any Trinitarian mouth your claim.
QuinQ is even claiming that Michael is many angels.

Before king James Bible was printed,As far back as before 1599, your fellow Trinitarians have been teaching that Archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.
Read Daniel 10:13 & 12:1 in the Geneva Bible & confirm.

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing about arrogant people is the way they keep on asking questions but never give a definitive answer when someone now gives such answer all of them will gather to counter what he says.
WHY?
All of them are sitting on the fence so to give a definitive answer could mean they have someone teaching them and they don't want that therefore they float with whatever they say unlike JWs who always bring answers showing we have authority! Matthew 7:28-29

TenQ:
The question is still waiting for any iota of intelligent answers


What is your understanding of this
Which is higher between the titles "King of Kings " and "Prince of Princes" and why?

QuinQ:
Explain what??
It is beyond your ability to fully comprehend or describe God just as you can't describe 5th and 6th dimensions; just as someone living in a two-dimensional world can't describe our 3-dimensional world!

Leave your theories in the dustbin.

Jesus Christ used earthly concepts to describe spiritual things.

.

QuinQ:
Still trying to describe what is beyond your ability to describe.
Ok, scientists have determined there are at least 12 dimensions. Oya, describe six dimensions to me - our three dimensions plus time, then plus two other dimensions. What would the 5th and 6th dimensions look like?

No mind am

Truthseeker10:
MaxInDHouse, Janosky, Aemmyjah, Gabrielshow24, QuinQ.
This is the evidence that Emusan claimed that Jesus is Yahweh/Jehovah according to Psalms 110:1.
But it seems the Trinity doctrine is against him now.

Legacy Standard Bible
Of David. A Psalm. Yahweh says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand Until I put Your enemies as a footstool for Your feet.”

American Standard Version
A Psalm of David. Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Nah Emusan way to dey deceive himself.

He's coming to deflect & digress to irrelevant matter.
.