₦airaland Forum

potent5:
Whatever. It doesn't change the deceptive teachings you people propagate. It doesn't change the lies in your translation of the Bible. It doesn't change the fact that the founder of JW was a high ranking illuminati. It doesn't change the fact that JW is a place for devilish indoctrination, where people live in pretense. It doesn't change the fact that JW are...

SIONKPO1:
following a verse in the bible,I have no problem but don't condemn others cause there are verses in the Bible that supports it
why don't JW like using other versions of the bible?

Myer:
Now the Holyspirit is not a force but a loud speaker?
Like I always tell people, you can defend what you want to believe in the bible. The bible is an interesting book like that.

Anyway, I've shown you portions where the Holyspirit was addressed as a Person by Jesus Christ himself and also the apostles.
I understand you don't believe in trinity but that doesn't mean you should deny portions of the bible which personify the Holyspirit.

Anywhere in the New Testament you see holy spirit addressed as "him" , the translators were being DUBIOUS.
Romans 8:16,26, John 1:32 (KJV) says the spirit itself, "it".. that's is the AUTHENTIC , faithful rendition in the Greek manuscripts. (Shine your eyes, Bros. It's never easy to learn the truth ).

emmnprince:
You want us to argue over Scriptures.

Because Studylight website support your position on this matter, you quickly ran to them.

This same Studylight didn't refer to Jesus as god as you portray Him to be in your New World Translation, neither does it support your claim of the Holy Spirit as an active force. This same Studylight didn't support most of your erroneous beliefs and spurious doctrine. But you won't quote them. Why do you now think they are reliable sources in this case. You just want us to argue unnecessary over words.

God is a spirit as John 4:24 says. Is a spiritual being not a spirit? The Father and Jesus Christ are spiritual beings. Jesus came to this world in human form. We have finite knowledge and understanding about the Godhead - these spiritual beings - because only what God want us to know He has revealed. Deuteronomy 29:29.

If we continue like this, as I earlier said, it will only amount to arguments over words/beliefs/concepts. We've not even started yet. Time & other engagements won't allow me to do this. Aside that, it will look like I'm attacking this denominational sect (JW) because of her erroneous and spurious doctrines about Jesus Christ, Jehovah God, the Holy Spirit, the state of one who died, life after the advent [/b]of Christ, the spirit and soul of man, heaven, government, to mention a few. [b]Even the name Jehovah Witness chosen and used by this group is a misnomer.

My final word for you: Try to study the Scriptures with an open mind, not with a mind closed by JW concepts and beliefs. When you do, you will come to know the real truth, not a truth "slanted" or "coloured" according to JW's beliefs and concepts.

Only a thoughtless person will remain in that group after careful study and research of JW's origin, belief and doctrines and their failed prophecies!

Open your Bible and study the words of Jesus Christ and Apostles John and Paul.

Jesus Christ speaking, John 20:17 and Rev 3:12,
Whose God did Jesus Christ ascend to ?

John 20:30-31, John 17:3,17 what must you believe to gain everlasting life?

Acts 3:13, 1 Corinthians3:23 . 11:3 whom does Jesus Christ in heaven belong to?
Whom do you belong to ?
Is God the head of Himself?

Bros, these very Scriptures here are what you have claimed to be " erroneous and spurious doctrines"

We have seen that sonofElElyon ,an imperfect man, knows the Bible and knows God more than Jesus Christ to the extent that the teachings Jesus learnt from his Father (John 15:15. John 7:16) he shamelessly rejected on this public forum.

Bros, enjoy your night and day.

Aeman:
My lord and my God

Jesus Christ himself quashed that FRAUD yakata. @ Revelations 3:5,12 and John 20:17.

If you believe your employees have authority over you, their employer who employs them , na your own problem be that.

sonofElElyon:
I have said I won't reply you anymore but you keep presenting materials that your sect has provided to prove its erroneous assertion


This is one of the most common verses of contention between the Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians. Their false assumption is that Jesus is not God in flesh but Michael the archangel who became a man.  Therefore, since they deny that Jesus is divine, they have altered the Bible in John 1:1 so that Jesus is not divine in nature.  The New World Translation has added the word "a" to the verse so that it says, " . . . and the Word was a god."  The correct translation of this verse is "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."  This is how it is rendered in the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, ASV, RSV, etc.

The New World translation is incorrect in its translation of this verse for several reasons.  First of all, the Bible teaches a strict monotheism.  To say that Jesus is "a god" is to suggest that there is another god besides YHWH, which is contrary to scripture Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8, etc.. Of course, the Jehovah's Witnesses will respond that Jesus is not the Almighty God, but a "lesser" kind of God.  He is the "mighty God" as is referenced in Isaiah 9:6, "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us, and the government will rest on His shoulders, and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."  Therefore, they say that Jesus is the mighty god but not the Almighty God.

The immediate problem with this explanation is that YHWH is also called the Mighty God in Jeremiah 32:18 and Isaiah 10:21.  In all three verses, including Isaiah 9:6, the Hebrew word for "mighty" (gibbor) is used.

Isaiah 10:20-21, "Now it will come about in that day that the remnant of Israel, and those of the house of Jacob who have escaped, will never again rely on the one who struck them, but will truly rely on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel.  21A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God."

Jer. 32:18, "who showest lovingkindness to thousands, but repayest the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God, the LORD of hosts is His name."

We can see that the Jehovah's Witness explanation is not valid; both the Son and God are called the Mighty God.

Furthermore, how many actual gods are there in scripture?  The obvious answer is that there is only one God in existence.  Though there are others who have been falsely called gods 1 Cor. 8:5-6 or even said to be "as God" like Moses (Ex. 4:16; 7:1, there is only one real God Gal. 4:8-9; Isaiah 44:6, 8. If Jesus is "a god" that was "with God" in the beginning, then is Jesus a true god or a false god?

But, the Jehovah's Witnesses often claim that Jesus is a god in the sense that Moses was called a god; but, Moses was not called a god.  Rather, he would be "as God."

"Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and it shall come about that he shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be as God to him." Exodus 4:16

"Then the Lord said to Moses, 'See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.'" Exodus 7:1

Why was Moses going "as God" to Pharaoh?  Because Moses was given the authority and power to display powerful miracles that decimated much of Egypt.  Was Moses really a god?  Being "as God" with regard to the power given to perform miracles over Egypt is not the same thing as being called "a god" that was in the beginning with God. John 1:1

John was a strict Jew, a monotheist. Does the Jehovah's Witness really think that John would be saying that there was another God besides Jehovah even if it were Jesus? Being raised a good Jew, the Apostle John would never believe that there was more than one God in existence. Yet, he compared the word with God, said the word was God, and that the word became flesh John 1:1, 14

John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus:  "In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word."  Notice that it says "God was the word." This is the actual word-for-word translation.  It is not saying that "a god was the word."  That wouldn't make sense.  Let me break it down into three statements.

"In beginning was the word . . . " 
(en    arche      en  ho  logos)

A very simple statement that the Word was in the beginning.

"and the word was with the God . . . "
(kai  ho  logos  en  pros ton theon)

This same Word was with God.

"and God was the word."-Properly translated as "and the Word was God."
(kai theos en   ho  logos)

This same Word was God.

Regarding statement 3 above, the correct English translation is " . . . and the Word was God" and not "and God was the word."  This is because if there is only one definite article "ho"="the" in a clause where two nouns are in the nominative "subject" form "theos" and "logos", then the noun with the definite article "ho"="the" is the subject.  In this case "ho logos" means that "the word" is the subject of the clause.  Therefore, " . . . the Word was God" is the correct translation and not "God was the Word."1 But this does not negate the idea that John is speaking of only one God, not two, even though the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that Jesus is "a god" or the "mighty god" as was addressed above.

Is there suddenly a new god in the text of John 1:1?  It is the same God that is being spoken of in part 2 as in part 3.  How do the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that the word had somehow become a god in this context since there is only one God mentioned? Remember, the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus was Michael the Archangel.  Therefore, is there any place in the Bible where an angel is called "a god" besides Satan being called the god of this world in 2 Cor. 4:3-4

John 20:28--"Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

In the Greek in John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus, "ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou," "The Lord of me, and the God of me." If Jesus was not God, but "a" god, then shouldn't Jesus have corrected Thomas?  Shouldn't Jesus have said, "No, Thomas, I am not the God.  I am a god."?  But Jesus did not.  To do so would have been ludicrous.  Nevertheless, the Jehovah's Witness will say that Thomas was so stunned by Jesus' appearance that he swore.  This is ridiculous because it means that Thomas, a devout man of God, swore in front of Jesus and used the Lord's name in vain in violation of Exodus 20:7.  This is hardly the case since we find no New Testament equivalent of a disciple of Christ using God's name in vain.

In conclusion, John 1:1 is best translated without the "a" inserted into the text.  "The Word was God" is the best translation.  This way, we do not run into the danger of polytheism with Jesus being "a god."  We do not have Thomas the disciple swearing and using God's name in vain; and, we do not have the problem of Jesus being a "mighty god" and yet not the God--even though God Himself is called the Mighty God Jeremiah 32:18; Isaiah 10:21

https://carm.org/john-1-1-word-was-god

Thomas (in John 20:28) and Jesus (in John 20:17, Revelations 3:12, who has MORE authority?
Does Thomas have authority to circumvent Revelations 3:12 and John 20:17?
Thomas called Jesus "my lord , my God", according to Jesus Christ,is Jesus the God in heaven?
Trinity FRAUD no dey taya you,Bros ?

Myer:
Show me where it is written in your bible that the Holyspirit is an active force?
You are just echoing what your JW founders taught you outside the bible.

Myer:
Theres a difference between personification and an actual person.
Let me ask you one simple question.
Is God a person or is personified?
Because the Holyspirit is the Spirit of God.

JesusPeople:
it is very simple,

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Angel proclaimed that the power of the highest shall overshadow. It also added the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, therefore that Holy thing that shall be born given a name, which is Son of God

So we have the power of the Almighty, we also have the Holy Spirit(Holy Ghost) which is the Spirit of God.

I would like us to know that God can proceed out of Himself and when He looks back He still sees Himself.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

So Philip asked Jesus, show us the Father and we shall be satisfied, Jesus turned and said, have you been this long with me yet you can not recognize that I am the Father

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Then Jesus went further to say, the Father dwelleth in me, He is the one doing what you see.

We all know God is a Spirit. And that same Spirit proceeded out of God.

Lemme shed more light, God can be in Lagos speaking to a prophet, yet another prophet is in Laguna(let's say Selman) and Selman is expressing a great manifestation of the Spirit in his church, some metres away, a sister is hearing from God. Does that mean there are many God's. No, God can proceed out of Himself and look back and see Himself, and it is not like one is half the other one, such that when they come together, they become one. Everyone of them still remains God because they proceeded from God.

There are many proves both old testament

For instance, Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

It says, a child shall be born, His name shall be wonderful, counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was manifested

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Now talking about begotten, begotten mean to give birth or to cause to come to existence. As far as the humanity of Jesus is concerned, he is the Son of God, but when we go into the divinity (Spirit) that is God, because at birth, the power of the Almighty was what caused the child to come forth.

Jesus was man(body) and Spirit.

But the body is subject to limitations, fatigue, tiredness, needs food, and yea, prayer. Prayer is basically a dialogue. There are time we something are meditating. The question is, who are you meditating with. Yourself of course. You are basically transferring from the subconscious mind if that's the word to your mind. That is, what you can not reach to, to something you can reach.

Jesus was basically connecting to His Spirit.

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

The spirit is full of strength, but the flesh has its weakness, so pray and strength would come. Meditate and you would come up with better ideas and answers.

Razzness:
I don't have strenght to type too much. But just know that jesus is not and will never be God. there are a lot of verses where jesus refered to himself as the son of man. Jesus is just one of God's numerous messangers. know this and know peace.

Razzness:
Lies

potent5:
Don't mind them with their deceptive teachings.

Emusan:
Who introduced the text unto that verse?

emmnprince:
I changed location where MTN internet service didn't allow me to come online. And what made you think the Godhead is a FRAUD. It is because JW and some who misrepresented it called it FRAUD.


And you trusted it because it supported your belief. Good! I can also bring out sources more reliable that disproves your position. But the only source that is reliable to draw from is the Scriptures, the Bible, using translations that aren't biased and closer to the earlier mss.


If we are to continue like this, it will only amount to argument. I didn't want to engage you on Scriptures from the onset because it will only lead to "this is what I belief/this is what you belief." while drawing up sources that support JW beliefs, but neglecting other sources that clearly kicked against their unfounded beliefs. But you threw 2 Bible verses to catch my attention and engage me. I have reasoned online and offline with members of JW well versed in your doctrine and beliefs in-depth. Only one could admit the your erroneous position, while others, as is the manner of JW members respectfully ended the discussion when we couldn't agree on certain things. We learn from the other though!

About the trinitarian doctrine: Because the Scriptures didn't use that term doesn't mean it is a FRAUD as you put it. There are some words we use to refer to certain concepts in the Bible, like spirit/ghost, rapture, trinity, etc. Trinity means trio, three.

In this context, it means "Three Spiritual Beings that make up the Godhead, The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. Colossians 2:9; Romans 1:20; Matthew 3:16, 17, Colossians 1:19, John 14:26, to mention but a few, alluded to the fact of the three Spiritual Beings and their relationship.

You only picked one verse and misinterpreted it to fit JW's doctrine without addressing others and even went as far as quoting a source to buttress your position. And you feel contented

I prefer we discuss outside NL if you want us to address Scriptures in-depth, not you drop one, I reply one.

I will respond to your 15 basic JW's belief online before Sunday.

Myer:
Maybe you should read your bible again to confirm the pronoun used to address him

fredopareto:
hmm..bt dsame Bible...it is well

Jesus Christ has risen to heaven. John 20:17

Revelations 3:5,12,21 , Jesus Christ himself CONFESSED that John 4:23,24. 17:3.
Acts 3:13. Isaiah 43:10-12 . 1 Corinthians 3:23 is the truth.

Compare John 14:28, John 20:17,30-31 and Revelations 3:5,12,21.
Is the spiritual realm Superior to the physical realm?

Therefore, Jesus utterances of Revelations 3:5,12 in the spiritual realm is solid EVIDENCES of his inferior status in heaven as well as earth.

Trinity GIBBERISH goes straight to the Sewage Tank

Jonasbadoo:
Jonasbadoo:
I'm not surprised, you guys only quote verses that support your brainwashed doctrines

You're just living in denial
i will send you a screenshot of that bible passage
you can keep wailing then

Chibae4real:
Please study and meditate the Bible very well. Read and study John chapter 1 vs 1, which says
'In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God' mean. It's a reference to the Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity - Jesus Christ, who is the Word incarnate.

nwaimoroseyaho:
U made no point at all. If the punishment for sinners is only to wipe them away from existence still there is no punishment

Since you ,nwaimoroseyaho ,an imperfect person is "wiser" than the Almighty God and reject God's word @ 2 Thess1:7-9 ,Romans 6:23, and Almighty Yahweh's Decree on sinful Adam
@ Genesis 3:19, Bros, go and write your own Bible dey DECEIVE YOURSELF

ospido:
Like i said earlier on I've come to know these people inside out.
You did say that Jesus is God Almighty if i get you correctly. But that is not true.
Under inspiration Stephen when being stoned to death said at Acts 7:56 he saw the "heavens opened up and the SON of MAN [/b]STANDING AT THE [b]RIGHT HAND OF GOD."
So you tell me how can someone standing at my right hand be me?
Did he double himself there?

sonofElElyon:
I cannot convince a dogmatic person like you to accept the biblical doctrines.. you have been indoctrinated and it is only God that can convince you . not man.... my purpose simply was to point out to you that the material you yourself quoted from provides you with more than enough evidence to prove Christ's Divinity.. you don't need to seek anybody to spar with...

selah... shalom..

xamuell:
Honestly I'm still confused on that issue because some part of scripture say that but another says something else. But let me ask you this. The gift of God is eternal life to those that are saved. Are sinners in eternal punishment not also eternally alive? According to your standing, even the damned have eternal life

SIONKPO1:
Jehovah witness not collecting Tithes and offering doesn't mean that they are better off to other denominations,FYI,its just their doctrine

ospido:
Who Bleep help?
Is Bleep a virtue?
They try to be chaste as God's word stipulates though they're not perfect.
I know many of them and if it's true you Bleep anyone of them as you asserted,then it means that one is not a serious member.
Take that to the bank.

sonofElElyon:
why don't you provide all other proofs of the Divinity of Christ as contained in your own attachment instead of hiding them.

you people are not christians and the Bible enjoins me to avoid vain arguments.. you guys have attacked practically every foundational doctrine of Christianity.
**2)
. you are pseudo christians.. all your prophecies about Christ's coming have failed.. you have now chosen to engage in self deceit by convincing yourselves that the 2nd coming of Christ took place in 1914.. the Bible said the sea, hell, death gave up all the dead so they could face the white throne judgement and be cast into the lake of fire (revelation) yet you argue against this... Jesus spoke about hell over and over again but you argue against it.. you guys broke out from seventh day Adventists and the Mormons.. you are not christians...

This is what sonofElElyon is running from:
I challenge you to mention one Scripture in that screenshot which studylight.org claimed supported your FRAUD claims.
The point must be made Very clear:
Study light.org your Trinity Comrade RUBBISHED your FALSE claim on Acts20:28

Metronomy:
They do not belief in the oneness of Jesus the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

sonofElElyon:
1)
you know nothing about scripture... only regurgitating what your leaders have indoctrinated you with..

only one version out all the ones you quoted uses the word angel... the others use messenger which is a more accurate word..
*2)
you go and study about old testament Christopanies (appearance of Jesus) and you will understand that appearances of Christ in the old testament though as a messenger did not deprive Him of Divinity as He spoke as God.. not as an ordinary angel which Michael is.. but as God.. anywhere you see an Messenger or "Angel" speaking as God and being worshipped by a man and He accepts that worship, that "Angel" was Christ.. eg burning bush when Moses bowed in worship and, as Captain of the host of the Lord when Joshua bowed in worship..

to now clearly disprove your ridiculous argument that angel Michael is Jesus, refer to the book of Daniel in which Daniel (Daniel 10:13) refers to Michael simply as "one of the chief princes" meaning just one of the archangels whereas he refers to Christ as the "Prince of princes" (Daniel 8:25) that is the Ruler of all rulers.. similar to King of kings..

how many versions

Bros, calm down
*1)
Hebrew malak, Angels are messengers, ministering spirits nau..
Receive SENSE

*2)
Deuteronomy 6:13 and Matthew 4:10 , John 15:15,

John 15:15, 7:16. His Father, Yahweh taught Jesus Christ.

Matthew 4:10, Jesus says Yahweh NEVER commanded anybody to worship Jesus.
Exodus 20:3-5, Moses can NOT DISOBEY Yahweh to worship Angel.

Moses paid homage, NOT worship.

*3)
Ignorance is bliss
Please read the screenshot and get proper understanding of Daniel 10:13

Strong's Hebrew 259 in Daniel 10:13 is the same meaning in Genesis4:19..
Strong's Hebrew 259 'one' = first.
Shine your eys , Bro.
JWs are genuine Bible students.
HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!

xaggar:
You quoted acts 20 vs 28.
Could you explain that verse in relation to Christ being Jehovah?

Clonus:
Did you read the Bible portions cited?

femi4:
The gathering is not referred to as Kingdom hall

The gathering is called CHURCH and it was used several times in the new testament

QED!

omoharry:
Thank you. That was well said .
So many Christians and so called men of God will not make heaven becos they don’t have love in their heart toward their neighbors .
The Bible said “above all, love your neighbor as your self but that is not what is obstainablenin christaindom.
So many Christians have it all wrong about making heaven

femi4:
you need to unlearn and re-learn

sonofElElyon:
what you attached said that there are more enough proofs in the Bible showing the Divinity of Christ apart from the one you disputed..

I will not argue with a dogmatic person. nothing I say will make any difference.. only the Holy Spirit in His mercy can show you the light.. He is indeed merciful, even to those who deny his personality..

Please name one person in your Bible who your own holy spirit showed mercy


I challenge you to mention one Scripture in that screenshot which studylight.org claimed supported your FRAUD claims.
The point must be made Very clear:
Study light.org your Trinity Comrade RUBBISHED your FALSE claim on Acts20:28

Why you refused to quote the words of Jesus Christ at John 5:37 and 6:46?

If the words of Jesus Christ is dogma to you, na your own problem be that.

Shalom