₦airaland Forum

[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=646198.msg8138012#msg8138012 date=1302914094]@jesoul
u remember that research I was doing in the other thread? I had to dump it. Was getting emotionally scary.[/quote]I don't blame you jare. Its pretty muddy waters trying to go thru all the information out there. Its best to follow Paul's advice - that in spite of all the noise, hold on that which you know by faith to be truth. If you have walked by faith, why start now by sight?

It is well jor my brother.


And oh Prez, I saw this awesome article written by a man of Jewish faith. It might be of help -

My Take: It doesn't matter who wrote the Bible
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/01/my-take-it-doesnt-matter-who-wrote-the-bible/

A Fantastic! article from one of the few Liberals in the media I love to death, Juan Williams. *smiley faces added by me for comedic emphasis  *

JUAN WILLIAMS: No Downside for Trump in 2012 Presidential Race Circus
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/04/19/juan-williams-trump-2012-presidential-race/

In three weeks, Fox News and the South Carolina Republican Party will host the first debate of the 2012 presidential primary season. A new Washington Post/ABC poll finds that none of the possible Republican contenders is currently running ahead of President Obama in a head-to-head match-up. And less than half of Republicans and Independents who lean to the right are pleased with list of Republicans most likely to make a run. The charismatically-challenged cast of Republican candidates likely to be on camera for that first debate is expected to include: Tim Pawlenty , Rick Santorum, Haley Barbour, Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul.


Now, against those nice but uninspiring candidates throw in billionaire Donald Trump. Let your imagination run wild. Let the fun begin. The blunt-talking real estate developer and reality television super-star has indicated that he may very well announce his bid for the White House in the coming weeks. If he does he will be on stage, too, because he qualifies as the leading Republican candidate in several polls. He certainly has the money and the name identification, two key ingredients for any successful run.


In a Republican field that is simultaneously wide open and overcrowded, the 64-year-old magnate is becoming the focus of attention because unlike even the most radical Tea Party politicians he has no inhibitions about making outrageous statements. In recent days he has condemned the Japanese, even as they recover from an earthquake, for “ripping us off for years.” He believes we seize Libya’s oil. This week Trump disparaged Mitt Romney as a “small businessman,” with far less wealth. He’s even made statements about African-Americans that could be interpreted as racially inflammatory, referring to “the blacks.” And he has even changed his position to become an opponent of abortion.


He has also become the nation’s leading “Birther,’ again playing to what some see as a racially sensitive issue, with his own investigators trying to dig up evidence that President Obama was not born in Hawaii. There is no downside for Trump in this circus. He is not upset at the thought of losing because losing makes no difference to him. He is still getting publicity and raising the value of his brand.  With a net worth of over $2 billion dollars to fund his campaign trump is says he still plans to ask people to send in campaign donations. He is rich but so far he has not spent a dime for all the free press coverage. And the bet here is that if he decides to run he will do it with other people’s money.


He may also lead the GOP down the garden path before deciding, like Ross Perot back in 1992, to run as an independent. For leading lights in the Republican Party this Trump triumphant scenario is a nightmare. The GOP needs the election to be a referendum on President Obama. They need a reasonable, solid, non-controversial candidate to soak up all the anti-Obama energy in the country. The GOP cannot afford to play into the President’s political hand by looking extremist or frivolous.


The GOP empire is striking back:
Ari Fleischer, the White House Press Secretary under President Bush, said: “I'm sorry, I think Donald Trump is making a fool of himself. When you look at what he did, it is not presidential….you do not go around saying that our current president, who I don't agree with, is kissing people's a**. It's just not the temperament people look up to in the oval office.”

Conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer on Monday night's "Special Report" said, "It's all name recognition. He is a celebrity, he is on television and a guy who talks about winners and losers. The vulgarity of him is offensive."

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and former Bush advisor Karl Rove have criticized Trump for advancing the theory of the “birthers” who believe President Obama was not born in the United States. Here what Rove told Bill O'Reilly on March 30:
The right- wing base of the Republican Party -- I'm part of that right-wing base -- is not in love with the issue of birthers. I mean, there is an element inside the Republican Party and outside the Republican Party that's fallen in love with this. But the vast majority of Republicans and the vast majority of Americans accept that he's a U.S. citizen and capable of being president. And this is a distraction… This is a mistake. It will marginalize him. And he's falling for Barack Obama's trap. Barack Obama wants Republicans to fall into this trap, because he knows it discredits us with the vast majority of American people when they do.



While other potential candidates have given weak non-answers to the birther question, saying they “take the President at his word,” Trump lays it all on the line. "What is he, baby Jesus?" ROTFLOL he quipped in an interview with Bill O’Reilly. "People have birth certificates…He doesn't have one…Maybe it says he's a Muslim, I don't know" he said. "If he wasn't born in this country, it's one of the great scams of this time." So where does that leave us? In a recent poll of Republican primary voters conducted by the Wall Street Journal and NBC News, Trump tied with Mike Huckabee for second place with 17%. Only Mitt Romney, with 21%, garnered more support for the nomination. In a general election contest against the President, Romney comes closest to the incumbent, trailing by four points at 49-45, and Huckabee trails by 6 points at 50-44. This is at a time when 57 percent of Americans, according to the Post poll, disapprove of the president’s job performance, a record low for President Obama.

There is no downside to all of the media attention for Donald Trump. He has already pulled in the equivalent of millions of dollars in free advertising for his name AND the Trump brand. Whether he ultimately enters the race for the presidency or not, there's one man in the Republican field who's already laughing all the way to the bank      .

Who knows . . . maybe this whole thing by Trump is one very big publicity stunt . . . talk about milking the media. Either way, me, I'm enjoying the show to the fullest, let the games begin! .

@omega25red, correct guy lol.

jay bee:
People generally get comfortable with asking once their first,second,third request doesn't get rebuffed.

Dude you gotta man up. These people will always survive regardless of you sending money or not. Yours is just an addition as Most Nigerian back home are built to survive regardless of whatever condition they find themselves in.

Don't be a mugu for people back home. At the end of the day you aren't plucking money from the tree so think twice and act wisely

@N.Delta, please re-read this post at least 100 times until it is engrained in you. People have given you good advice here, you better follow it before its too late.

Wow, the playoffs really started off with a bang! lol.

Felt bad for the Pacers. They could very easily be up 2-0 on the bulls if they had experienced veterans to help them down the stretch to close out games. But nevertheless, they have made their mark on the playoffs so far. Who woulda thought they'd be giving Chicago a run for their money. lol.

Lakers - Hornets. CP stole game 1, but I expect the Lakers to win in 6 games.

Everyone's expecting Memphis to upset SA . . . lol, poor Spurs still get no respect in spite of all the rings wey dey their finger. I say the Spurs will win in 6.

Boston - NY. Dagger from Ray-ray. Celtics lets go jare. NY cannot keep up playing this level of defense each game. They will revert to their old ways.

I know I'm not the only one . . . but the most exciting series in this playoffs is Denver vs. OKC wow! what a game 1. I'm looking forward to their game 2 more than any other series. I'm so suprised Denver is this good. George Karl has done a marvellous job with these guys. So so impressive.

montelik:
I just knew you would be d first to inject Palin's name into this thread. I am beginning to subscribe to Jesoul opinions about you.

Hehe Prez is and has always been secretly in love with the lovely Sarah Palin. And that's funny that no one had actually mentioned Palin so far on the thread . . . I didn't even realize that. Very interesting.

montelik:
Trump is a symptom of how rudderless d Republican brand has gotten. Let me say again politically d guy is complete JOKE.  There are far more credible businessmen who actual have some decent understanding and opinions e.g Forbes , Buffet, Zuckerman e.t.c.

Unfortunately, those guys don't have reality TV shows so we (the american public) don't 'know' them well 

@Jesoul. I also like people who aren't beholden to ideology and people who update and change their opinions. When someone goes from point A to point B and admits they were wrong or can actually explain their new found position, I applaud. But on d other hand when some one goes from point A to B and can't explain why they believed A but now subscribe to B, or when someone instead tries to claim they have not really changed their position, even though they clearly have. I find such pple to be dishonest, not smart and/or incredibly conceited and self absorbed. Trump falls into second category not d first.

Kai! see yab   Montelik the guy vex you oh. lol. I haven't dug deep into Trumps past . . . maybe what you say is indeed true. But mehn, am enjoying the show to much to spoil it with facts

Also if you want someone who can buck party lines I doubt Senator Brown won't end up disappointing you. D guy is another Romney prototype, he is just more handsome and still smells newer, but his hair isn't as good though.   

Unfortunately, you're right. Politicians will always disappoint us. But I have a feeling that any disappointment from Brown would be one I could swallow and still not have a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm telling you, the guy may have similar packaging to Romney, but the actual contents are vastly different. Plus Romney is hella boring, uninspiring and predictable - Brown is none of those things. I've heard Brown throw in support with Democrats and laud Obama on an occasion or two - and I have heard some local Democrats even singing Brown's praise - when you have believers from both sides of the aisle, you know you're doing something right. Brown is a figure that can actually unite both sides - Romney is the polar opposite - literally.

  The disaster called RomneyCare will forever hang over his head, which is why I doubt he will be the presidential nominee. Our gov. Deval Patrick was on ParkerSpitzer-CNN few days ago saying how 'successful' Romney care has been in Mass. I almost fell off my couch in laughter and disbelief. See hogwash of the highest quality and the spineless Arrow Parker is didn't even bother to challenge that obvious lie. As if its not front page news Mass is in the financial hole big time. Thank God when he showed up on Jon Stewart later that night, Stewart held him to task on the falsehood of what he was saying.

oyewolejos:
Did u watch their game against Boston?
Did u hear the commentator says this is how to win the championship?
I even like how u guys are underating the Heat.
How many team in the NBA can beat the heat in a 7 game series?
Well April 17 is near so until then let all fingers be crossed

And one game suddenly wipes out an entire season? lol. Did you watch their other games against the NBA elite teams? they ended up 1-3 against Boston. LA was the only team they beat 2-0. Overall, they are ~ 5-15 or so against Chicago, Dal, LA, Bos, Orlando, SA and just about .500 against .500 teams.

But in spite of that, the playoffs are all about match-ups, momentum and experience - which is why the regular season numbers won't count for much. That said, the Heat have no inside defense, and any coach worth his weight will exploit that over a 7 game series. But then again, we can all be surprised, nothing is guaranteed.

---

Hakim27:
Celtics will win the title

I pick celtics vs okc thunder in the final

celtics winning it

Hehe . . . I'm a Bos fan so I say amen to that, though I'll be surprised if they make it that far. OKC is a scary team. Durant is a stud and Perkins has given them a swagger to go head to head with the likes of LA. Its going to be an exciting playoff season .

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=646198.msg8133269#msg8133269 date=1302869988]^^^^^^^^^

I can see that some disgruntled rats have crawled out of their holes. Democ-RATS to be precise! [/quote]Lol  . . .
[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=646198.msg8130080#msg8130080 date=1302833111]Lord pls may Donald, Palin, Gingrich or Bachmann be the republican nominee Amen. May they never nominate pawlenty or Romney. Amen!!

May they never think of that fat goon in new jersey. Amen!

If donald is nominated, may he select Palin as running mate Amen
if Gingrich is nominated may he choose bachmann Amen

poops, boring thread [/quote]See your mouth like boring thread. Why you waka enter now? dem force you? 

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=646198.msg8129434#msg8129434 date=1302823946]@Jesoul,
I think say na only me see am.  At this stage, we need a leader who will dare to do the right thing irrespective of the consequences.  Trump cuts across as that kind of a guy.  Giving his background, he surely will be motivated by the desire to do what is right and become a legend, rather than succumb to Party politics and trivialities.[/quote]and this has become to me one of the top 3 qualities I look for in anyone I vote for. Because of who he is, he can afford to say certain things, do certain things without fear of 'ruining' his 'career'. He doesn't need to tread sofly, he can walk hard and carry a big stick.

On domestic issues I like what he's saying, but on foreign policy?   he's way in the sky and left reason behind

By the way, Bachmann is another person that I think will buck at Party loyalty to do what is right. The woman is fearless. Forget Pawlenty (T-Paw). He is a typical politician who is neither here nor there. You can't pin anything on him because of the malleability of his opinion and position. I like him as a person, but I think he is too much a politician than a fearless leader. At this junction in America, what we need is a bold and fearless leader who does not care what people think as he/she seeks to do the right thing.

My impression of Bachmann is not favorable. I agree with the fearless bit, but so far she hasn't come across as a politician willing to engage with the other side, but rather score cheap points on trivial issues. Few weeks ago she was riding all over Michelle Obama for her campaign to encourage mothers to breastfeed their children . . . she has to learn to laud a good move, and not always scream 'socialism' or 'govt takeover' at everything the Obamas do.

Honestly, the republican field is looking pretty shabby. At least Trump is keeping things interesting  [quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=646198.msg8129411#msg8129411 date=1302823688]@armyofone,
What choice do I have if I have to pick between two celebrities and a host of clowns? [/quote]My brother na correct truth you just talk for dia

This guy appears to have some real back bone o. See him addressing this birther issue head on when others can only tread gently. Many think what he is thinking but have no courage to speak out like he is doing.

LOL . . . I personally think whether or not Obama was born here is irrelevant . . . but honestly, I've been getting a huge chuckle out of seeing Trump infuriate people on the The View, Today show, Oreilly etc . . . the guy no send! "Show me your birth certificate! I don't want a certificate of live birth, show me the real thing. Everyone has a birth certificate, everyone, why can't he simply show his?" priceless entertainment!

montelik:
Besides Gingrich (needs to retire to book circuit) and Huckabee (needs to go back to being a minister) all d people you just mentioned are miles better than Trump. By the way how come you like Sen Brown, yet have a not too favorable opinion of Romney. Politically they are incredibly similar.

Brown and Romney may be similar on paper, but they are miles and leap years apart in practice, attitude and principle. I get to see/hear from Brown often here in the Bay State, and I have not agreed with every decision he has made, but I have understood and appreciated his reasoning behind it.

Romney comes off to me as a actor, trying to play the role - and many many people are seeing through it. While Brown is the real deal - he is IT.

Montelik, that was the spambot that tagged your last post, I've pm'd the admin to untag it.

montelik:
OMG. Trump is nothing but hot air and noise. It easy to talk d talk, but walking d walk is another matter. like my maths teacher would say, "its not d answer that counts, so please show your workings". Trump reminds of d BNP leader in d UK. A leader looking to make splash, therefore co-opting whatever political policies, position as well as rhetoric he can in order to gain attention, support and coverage.

But then Obama got very far using d power of celebrity, so I guess Trump is making a go of it as well.

Hehe . . . well, "what is good for the goose is also good for the gander"

There's no question Trump is working the media right now to increase his publicity - that is how the game is played ain't it? In regards to your last post, your criticisms are well in order. I would like to add though that it's a bit hard requiring a political history on hot button issues - from someone who hasn't really been involved in politics, until recently.

And I actually score him brownie points for having supported Democrats in the past and shown a willingness to change his mind on different issues (I've always wondered why that is viewed as such a bad thing). This shows he is not strictly partisan like most of the others, and that his beliefs and position on issues are constantly being 'updated' or informed by the latest evidence - not purely 'ideaology'.

^lol. That hair is hideous true true.

Honestly, the current crop of candidates being paraded out there leaves more than a lot to be desired. Mitt Romney? Michelle Bach? Huckabee? Gingrich? Pawlenty? (whom I don't know much about)

Looking at all the hats available in the shopping window, the one with very bad hair suddenly don't look so bad.

Pastor AIO:
I don't know how valid anything that he says above is. 'knowing what scripture is' is not as easy as he seems to think. He says 'we have it here, after all'. Someone in the audience should have asked him, 'what translation?'. Not to mention the numerous interpretations that can be extracted from it.

I wonder just how he separates 'this book', the bible, from 'the book we are so good at turning this book into'.

Gbam. And that's why I asked Enigma about what exactly qualifies as 'scripture' - because if we (author and readers and all of christendom) cannot have an accord on this, the rest almost all goes out the window.

Perhaps if someone (Enigma?) could write a short summary of it, distilling the key points that the writer is making then I'll be more convinced. As it stands there might not be any key points at all, but I wouldn't know cos it's covered with a load of verbosity.

Brother Enigma, abeg hellep Pastor hia. My brain was barely able to get the gist of the story yday, a macro-headache resulting from only 4hrs of sleep is not helping either.

When I read something and all sense of it seems to elude me it can only be one of two things. The writing is a load of convoluted bollocks, or it is way above my intellect.

Lol . . . I'm willing to bet you haven't met a subject that is above your intellect, abi na lie?

Pastor AIO:
Hi peeps. Okay, I haven't read through the entire quote. I found it quite dense and I was also a bit at a loss about what the writer was trying to say. I wasn't sure if he was contradicting himself or if I was merely not getting it. So I'm going to respond only to the very first paragraph.

Lol. Its not just you Pastor, the author is verbose and like Lager and I commented, it is a laborious read.

I don't know what the writer/lecturer actually means by the word 'Authority'. I understand Authority to be something that cannot be questioned. It's will is done and it's opinion is accepted in all matters over which it exercises Authority. I understand Authority to be related to Authorship. That is creator/inventor and in old english father.

If all authority is God's authority (and I agree with this claim) then the Third Reich of Hitler's germany was authorised by God. The Corrupt governments of Nigeria are authorised by God. Your wicked landlord is authorised by God. Gaddafi is authorised by God. If the people rise up against Gaddafi, are they rising up against God's authority? What then if they win and defeat Gaddafi and set up another government? That would mean that God is constantly changing the structure of how he delegates his authority.

Enigma please correct me if I'm wrong.

Going by Wright's position, I would say not that God 'authorized' it - but that in His grand, all-encompassing authority - permits it? as He permitted many wrongs as we see in the bible? and that in the exercising of His authority - by either intervention or restraint - God is working all things to ¹ glorify His name ² redeem mankind

I think that the lecturer is perhaps a little hazy on the history of the bible, and also on the work of the likes of St. Augustine of Hippo. The Authority of the bible was not invested in it by God himself directly. At least not as far as I'm aware. It got it's authority from the Catholic Church that compiled it and gave it it's place in the christian's life. The Authority was first vested in the Church and the church passed on some of it's authority into the bible. However even from reading the bible itself it cannot be denied that the greater authority is the Church itself. Matt 28:18 is quoted by the writer but it will serve us better to read that passage in it's full context:

I think this is exactly the nerve he's trying to strike . . . that the authority of the bible - is itself and by 'itself' - meaning God, because it comes from God (it may help to keep in mind he's probably writing to christian audience - hence an already existing belief system). Wright appears to ignore or dismiss as irrelevant how the bible 'got here' but that the words, stories, narratives themselves burst with power - and this is 'where/how' it has its authority. That the bible is not subject to secular standards of judgement or 'verification' - but that it is different in how it is to be ¹ Approached ² Apprehended ³ Analyzed (and verified to be legitimate) ^{and 4} Applied in our lives.

^^and I am well aware how this can come off - lol - the bible is 'special' and all of it must be accepted and followed whether or not you understand it

I hope any bit of all that made a little bit of sense?

Enigma:
Good question! First I am going to stick to the view that Paul wrote the chapter (a lot of the claims that this or that person did not write that book or the other are really not substantiated, I think).

OK: first the current 66 (or 73) books? Not likely! Why? The likelihood is that 2 Timothy was written close to the time that other books of the New Testament were being written; thus, Paul probably did not have in view/mind, on a purely physical level, all the books that came to make up the New Testament. We could speculate that he anticipated that some "scriptures" were still to be written or that he saw himself as writing "scriptures" but did he have some foresight or spiritual premonition of the New Testament as it was finalised?

So what did he likely mean by scriptures? First, in the New Testament, there are several references to "scripture" or "scriptures" not in the mere sense of "writing" but also in the sense of a sort of "sacred" writing or book. Jesus Himself did it all the time: "today this scripture is fulfilled", "[some people] have no knowledge of scriptures or the power of God" etc etc

So what book or books were they referring to as "scripture" or "scriptures". In some instances, we know precisely: sometimes we only need to look at the footnotes to the Bible we are reading: examples would include Jesus reading Isaiah, quoting Psalm 82 etc. In most instances, the quotations are traceable to the Old Testament as we know it (minus the Apocrypha for now). I think there are maybe about three or four such OT books not quoted in the NT. Thus we know that Jesus and the early church considered much if not indeed all our OT to be "scriptures".

*nodding along* . . .  

Here I want to interject a point: in the piece by NT Wright you will see that he said that Jesus and Paul treated the OT with "a mixture of respect and cavalier freedom"! Thus although something is "scripture" doesn't mean we follow blindly --- e.g. Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath; Paul explaining the place of the OT in light of Christ's death and resurrection (or in light of "NT"; author of Hebrews saying "useless law" is disanulled etc etc etc

The situation concerning the Apocrypha is more difficult: there are references to some books of the apocrypha in the "regular" Bible. [b]But it is not always clear and still debatable that such references treat them as part of "the" "scriptures". All I would say is that they were, like many other books not themselves in the Apocrypha, available in the era of Jesus and His apostles/disciples including the authors of the gospels, epistles and The Apocalypse. I would also say - that references were made to some books did not automatically mean they were considered "scriptures" in the sense of sacred books. [/b]I would also say that what are considered references to a/some particular book may actually be disputed: e.g. conventional view is that Jude quoted the book of Enoch but there are legitimate questions that "did He really or was he quoting that saying of an Enoch from another source"?

Bang bang bang!!! thanks for this! and here is the heart of the matter I think. We cannot exactly pin down what qualifies as 'scripture', as 'authority', as God's 'revelation' to man . . .  even Paul spoke once about how an instruction was not from God but his own personal opinion. Its made me wonder many times just how many more times were his 'personal opinion' - but he didn't explicitly say so.

One thing that could help is some amount of study of the debate concerning an/the Old Testament Canon and in particular whether by the time of Jesus and the apostles, the Jews themselves had finalised what books were in and what books were out {of "the canon" and thus what books constituted Old Testament "scriptures" in the sense of sacred text}.

Well, it is a debate and for many still ongoing: the article in the following link helps to put that debate in some perspective. NB the article does not have all the answers and, specifically, section 2.2 of the article should have had a clear and heavy qualification that the Council of Jamnia is disputed by some who say that it is only a hypothesis that such a Council, even if it took place, established an Old Testament canon.   http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/sbrandt/canon.htm

Thanks, I will check out that link.
 

There is of course a simplistic way of looking at all of this, which is not wholly devoid of merit, that the Bible as we have it is what God intended us to have and thus the reference to "scriptures" in 2 Timothy is indeed to the Bible as we have it. 

Everyone to his own poison, innit?

Indeed! lol.

Enigma:
Hiya Sis

The one of whom I'm jealous is shouting his hellos in the background here.

Ah! my small husband, abeg give him one big kiss for me

Of course the task is a hard one and I dare say we all face the difficulty of 'holding on' to what we have understood as you highlighted. Sometimes you wonder why God chose to allow things to be this way with the scriptures and even with the Church but then you check yourself that do you fully know the designs and ways of God?

True. We have to trust that His infinite wisdom is working all to the glorification of His name and the redemption of mankind. But ehn sometimes, its hard . . .

With regard to extra-biblical stuff, I certainly believe that there are various materials that may inform our understanding but, ultimately, I concur with Wright that once we properly understand the place/meaning of its "authority", our authority lies in the scriptures as understood in the truest sense possible of what God is communicating.

Got it, thanks.

Another question. When the author refers to 'scripture' he is refering to the 66 books we have today. When 2 Tim says "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" . . . what 'scripture' is it refering to? Just the OT? he had foresight of what would become 'scripture' today?

I've been a fan of Trump for a while. When he started making the political circuit, I was very skeptical of his motives. Not another over-fed celebrity dabbling into politics . . .

Fast forward a few months and I feel differently. His ideas on foreign policy are radical and not really practical in today's world . . . however, the vast majority of his beliefs I think are very very appealing to the average American.

Listen to his well articulated views here on Obamacare, Illegal immigration, Abortion, Gay Marriage, The Mosque at ground zero etc  . . . I was very impressed (though not necessarily agree) by practically everything he said. He comes across as a reasonable, sensible, honest and down to earth guy . . . in spite of the uhm birther drama lol. I especially admire that he is simply[b] fearless [/b] and does not kiss anybody's backside. The guy no send at all! lol.

[flash=600,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hNsH6FCKI4?fs=1&hl=en_US"[/flash]

As a side note, I can't wait for Scott Brown to run in the next cycle or two . . . so that America can see what a star he truly is.

Challenging stuff Enigma. A laborious but enriching read.

I am saying that we mustn’t belittle scripture by bringing the world’s models of authority into it.  We must let scripture be itself, and that is a hard task.  Scripture contains many things that I don’t know, and that you don’t know; many things we are waiting to discover; passages which are lying dormant waiting for us to dig them out.  Awaken them.  We must then make sure that the church, armed in this way, is challenging the world’s view of authority.  So that, we must determine—corporately as well as individually—to become in a true sense, people of the book.

And a task it is! Interpretations, understanding and applications of scripture are as diverse as there are christians - and often we (churches - depending on which institutions are truly 'churches') are unwilling to relinquish our positions on these issues. Me sef is guilty. This is a hard, and seemingly impossible task. Honestly, his charge is a noble one, but an acheivement of this on a massive, corporate level . . . *shaking my head* . . .  I dunno 'bout that. How can we let scripture be scripture when it is flawed, biased humans that are handling this scripture? May God help us through His Holy Spirit.

Question. Is there room for extra-biblical (not contra-biblical) material/understanding/revelation in all this? We all know scripture does not (and I don't think was intended) to address minute details of entire sphere of the human existence - but rather gives us principles and standards by which we live by. Can we sort of put ourselves in a box by prescribing only scripture? while also keeping in mind the kinds of abuse that occur when this door is opened.

Sleekymag thanks for the response brother.

As a side question, what do you think about modern pastors living lavish lifestyles? as representatives of God and examples to their flock, ¹ do you think for these men to live in opulence is out of step & inconsistent with the examples Jesus and His disciples set? If not, can you please say why? ² furthermore, do you say there is a possibility for church funds/finances to be misused?

thanks again.

Just out of curiosity . . .

Sleekymag, can you give examples of what geographic locations in the world Oyedepo (and others who'll use the planes) travel to for missionary work?

Thanks.

^Welcome Maverick (fellow Celtic fan) . . . unless you're a return ID? 

I think we're going to be suprised this playoff season . . . and I would like to be suprised. Teams like OKC and Chi that have been on the verge actually have a shot to breakthrough because they're playing with a ton of confidence and momentum. The other side of the equation is nothing trumps experience - championship experience - something LA, Bos, SA all have - regardless of how badly they're playing right now.

Also LA and Boston really sucked leading into last years playoffs, and suprised us all by making the finals, so one can never write them off. Miami is a wildcard. I agree it'll be hard for them to better any of the top teams in a 7-game series . . . but hey, anything is possible!

Let the Playoffs begin . . .

^Ob sweerie, I've been around . Wassup now?

Re: NL Movie-Club: Summer 2011 Stakeout

eldee:
Aiite . . . it's not a real stake-out obviously, how cool would that be??

it was the word "Stakeout" that made me click on this thread  I demand a refund eldee.

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See list from Hollywood inside man Obinna lol. Is it me or do most of those flicks sound like jello? . . .

- Thor: Seen the trailer . . . other than the dude is seriously ripped, I didn't take anything away

- Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides . . . This I'm actually looking forward to

- The Hangover: Part II . . . what

- Kung Fu Panda 2 . . . who

- The Tree of Life . . . Huh

- X-Men: First Class . . . YAY!!! they better not screw it up like the last one

- Super 8 . . . sounds like 'Seven lucky kids'. OB what's this?

- Green Lantern . . . the trailer reminded me of a kid that tried too hard to be cool. We'll see

- Cars 2 . . . didn't see Pt 1 so . . .

- Transformers: Dark of the Moon . . . YEAH!!! On the top of my list

- Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2 . . . I stopped watching HP after the 3rd installment I think

- Captain America: The First Avenger . . . *yawns*

- Cowboys & Aliens . . . I think I saw the trailer for this, and I think I was impressed enough to want to see it

- CrazyStupidLove . . . what?

- The Smurfs . . . lol, I somehow don't see this as a 'blockbuster'

- Rise of the Planet of the Apes  . . . ehen now, they have to milk the franchise to death

- Conan the Barbarian . . . lol, who's starring as Conan?

- Fright Night . . . another 'Scream'?

- Spy Kids 4: All the Time in the World 3D . . . *insert Lol here*

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=628461.msg8074723#msg8074723 date=1302197344]Look, I love what you say here and the way you positioned it. love it!!! [/quote]Thank you oga. You know I'm just trying to follow in the big footsteps you have put before us 

On the blame game. . . .we are guilty as the rest of racial types in other terms. Here are few examples:

1. Reports that attribute health diseases by black racial types are just that. . . RACIST! Unless in the same report, attributes are also given for known health syndromes and diseases prevalent among other racial types.

Going by that, then every black-related statistic - health or otherwise - that doesn't include other races, is also "racist". I don't see it as terribly offensive if doctors/researchers are trying to identify and highlight diseases unique to a certain group - most of this kind of work is done out of noble intentions - to raise awareness and combat the disease, and not necessarily to stereotype or cast aspersions on a group of people.

  I mean it is a fact HIV-AIDS is more prevalent among blacks, specifically black men I believe - the fact that this may stereotype black men in the process is an unfortunate casualty of the truth. While there may be a few powerful illuminati honchos taking pleasure from or even generating any negative-black news, I think most of the reports and research have no dark ulterior motives behind them. But hey, I could be wrong right?

2. When the issue of reparations was brought up some years back, AAs were talking of about $2B in compensation. White America shut down the idea on the grounds that first, the oppressors were dead and the living souls that will be taxed for the payment are by most accounts fresh and recent immigrants of 1st, 2nd, 3rd but no more than 4th generation citizens. But they forgot that the heritage of the economy and social securities they enjoy are legacies of slavery, so how can you qualify for the privilege but disqualify for the payment?

Since then, America has spent over 5billion in warfare in Iraq alone. So where is the justification beside the fact the beneficiary of that huge money is Black?

I personally think undertaking a reparations campaign will do no good - it will only deepen the divide. Our fathers were wronged - on a scale and to a degree that money cannot even begin to repay or address - its so much more deeper than that. It will always be true as I mentioned before, blacks start off with a disadvantage - and for the govt. to throw money at this will not solve the problem no more than throwing water ballons at a car will fix the engine. Look at the Education system. We're spending more and more money per child over the last 10yrs but yet we're declining in quality of education among industrialized nations. I think programs from different kinds of organizations (and there are many) that attempt to level the playing field by giving blacks opportunities are by far better than a simple handout check - which going by our predilections, would sooner be spent on 20inch rims on a Caddy rather than saved up for a college education.

  Calling for Reparations forces us to continue looking backward, fixated at the baggage tied to our ankles . . . instead of pressing forward in spite of this baggage and slowly and steadily begin to take the shackles off one by one. It is true that blacks not being afforded the full spectrum of civil rights until recently has had a terrible, terrible effect on our collective psyche - one that I hope we can overcome someday. But asking for a pay-out is not the way Negro, how about we just take it by the force of sheer will and hardwork and determination? we can't continue to sing in church and hope Capitol Hill will pay us mind. We have to get into capitol hill (and other halls of power) and effect the changes we want seen in our communities, use our swagger, swank and skill to swing the ball our way and see our people prosper from those changes - this is the real reparations! There'll always be racists and great forces that are profiting from the black cycle of mediocrity - but our resolve must be stronger. Opposition is not an excuse for failure. David killed a giant with 2 pebbles - if the context was fast-forwarded, the complaint would be the giant was too big and that he had an unfair advantage of being trained by the best trainers in the best combat schools in ancient times and that his parents were acclaimed fighters etc etc

   David took the 2 pebbles and silenced all those valid (if I might add) excuses. We can do the same - we have the numbers and the intelligence, if only we can harness it properly.

but hey wetin I know? I'm just a small girl from beantown lol.

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=628461.msg8075188#msg8075188 date=1302201714]

Well, "sis."  The first thing you can do is, remove that reference to MLK in your location.    The second thing is, you can apologise to our bro Cap for all the hours he spent tryna learn ya!  [/quote]Lol. Ok. ¹ Can I keep it on if I said I lived in Atlanta or Missisipi?    ² If you can prove to me why, I will tender a 10pg apology with a cherry-topped chocolate cake on the side.

Seriously though, I have no option but to conclude, amongst other things, that your husband is not a black man.  So I will leave you alone.  For now.  

I like this girl, seriously  . What difference would it make if my husband were black or white? The only thing that should matter is whether he is smart and fine - and he is both to the n^th degree. Nah but seriously, I would like to understand why you think it matters? if not here or today, we can meet at your house, I prefer pounded yam with egusi and goat meat - and water will be fine. I'm not too demanding  .

So because I'm not fanatical about Black supremacy or 'victimacy' it must be because I'm married to a white boy?  common now my sister.

P.S.: If I braid ya hair, it will hurt like a mother!    And it will come loose overnight.  I suck at it.

Chai! I thought you had skills? so you cannot even do twists? I can settle for that one  

morpheus24:
A far better analysis that can be understood and argued intellectually, unlike some others. I don't have time right now to respond but might later in the day

Kudo's!!

^ you see why I roped him into the debate  I second your post 100%.


[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=628461.msg8074646#msg8074646 date=1302196687]Each of those other ethnic groups have political representation - PAC - that act as the sentry into the communities, they monitor and control social, economic, cultural, academic and informational access into and out-of their respective communities. So that when something derogatory happens in a majority Asian community the news feed is first reviewed and approved for dissemination. Their arts and history is positioned positively by Hollywood. Mob movies like Godfather and Scarface . . . and now Gotti. . . ., where brute force and bloodshed is the mark of honor are promoted as a cultural pride. However, Bloods and Crips, the black equivalent, is derogated.[/quote]I see what you mean and you have a solid point in that 'black equivalent' of ____ is usually the 'bad' one - and that really sucks for us. No doubt. The way I see we can react in two ways:
^1- continue to feed and nourish the stereotype with our actions or ^2- prove those stereotypes wrong by our actions. If this was a race, I'm sure we'll all agree that blacks in America start off 50yds behind, at a disadvantage by virtue of different kinds of factors, some our fault, others not. We can either choose to use this disadvantage as an excuse to remain forever behind, and continue playing the victim card, or we can run faster and harder (and in the process make ourselves better as a group) than others and win the race. Now more than ever, there are so many avenues and opportunities (not available to whites) for the black man to rise up, scholarships, foundations, quotas from Ivy League schools african migrants would die to have. Sports, entertainment, politics etc . . . There's a univ in my neighborhood, ranks high in the nation, students who've lived in the community with their families can attend for free - yes FREE! can you imagine? but yet to my distress not many black youth take advantage. 
   

The militancy you see in Farrakhan is justified. If he was laidback and timid as most of these so called Black Church leaders are then Nation of Islam will end up same way SNC, Black Panther and SLCC have ended up. If you notice, NoI is treated differently than the rest of Black community social groups. . . .they are reputed to have discipline, organization and creed as well as a very tight and orderly hierarchy and so the Govt has learnt not to jerk them around like they do the mega Churches and all.

You can regard Nation of Islam as a model of a desired Black PAC, if there were to be one. . . and Farrakhan as the archetype of a Black voice. He may not be desirable but at least he represents what we need and should have for us.

wow at this whole quote. Your point is very well taken and appreciated. And to "regard NOI as a model of the desired black PAC" is a happy concession I can make. If only Farrakhan can put aside his racist inclinations and hatred of "white people" . . . but I do understand your point "it may not be ideal, but its what we got right now". 

  I would rather say however that Farrakhan's millitancy is understandable - not justified. He still has no moral right to damn an entire race because of the sins of the godfathers. You've seen the movie 'A Time To Kill'? Complex racial interactions - with good and bad guys on both sides of black and white. If Farrakhan can embrace this, and see that he has many untapped supporters, allies to the black cause in the white community - imagine the 'damage' he could really do!

I hope this is nothing but a small ripple. These guys have more than enough on their plate

Isale my sister wassup now?

you wan put me for budweiser hot seat abi? lol. If you were braiding my hair like I had hoped we could've had a nice girl conversation where I could answer your questions properly away from all these strangers . I'll answer the last two since I've previously divulged that information on NL.

-I live in surburb of Boston, Mass.
-My husband is not Nigerian. My parents are.

Oya over to you . . .

size12,

  Obowunmi has some nice ideas there. How fancy do you want to get? what kind of food will your friends like? also how many people will be at your party? If more than 15 then some finger foods would be excellent, especially for appetizers/desserts.

1 - How about a fruit platter done kebab-style? It shouldn't be too expensive if you buy the fruits whole and chop them up yourself.
[img]http://creampuffsinvenice.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dscn8999.JPG[/img]
or alternatively, some stores sell fruit platters ready made. See this example from Edible Arrangements
https://blogs.targetx.com/pbu/Janice/EdibleArrangements_Basket.gif  www.ediblearrangements.com

2 - Since you're using chicken, maybe you can also have some chicken-kebabs with mixed veggies?
https://www.grillxpressny.com/images/ChickenKebab.jpg

3 - To spice up your drinks a little bit, if you have a blender, try making a large batch of smoothie (or else just buy in the store or use wine or a mixture of the two) and serving in chilled, brown sugar or chocolate rimmed glasses like this (drop in strawberry or cherry for added effect) - [img]http://www.fotobank.ru/img/SF14-6824.jpg?size=l[/img]

4 - For your dodo, you spice it up a bit if you don't want to serve it regular style. You can buy those frilled toothpicks (they come in all shapes, sizes, plastic, color etc) you stick in finger foods and serve around a dish with a tomatoe sauce/stew dip.
https://img.tootoo.com/mytootoo/upload/52/528127/product/528127_96a0189cb5015a0d39be67cd59cf3f0d.jpg

5 - For other side dishes . . . some dinner rolls? steamed carrots and green beans? a light chicken soup made with some of your chicken stock? a tossed salad of lettuce and tomatoes? or a mozarella and tomatoe salad with sprinkled basil or other greens like this - https://assets.kaboose.com/media/00/00/09/85/d04ac5677a4f2cdecabef999c04b72f2f89408af/476x357/article-Caprese-Salad-A_476x357.jpg

or a proper Naija "salad" with all the works drenched in some Heinz .

Goodluck and have a blast of fun!

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=628461.msg8059953#msg8059953 date=1302038022]@JeSoul
If this is the normal side of you slipping into naughtiness, all I can say is God help dat broda when you get down right naughty.  ^{Enjoyment yanfun yanfun!!} [/quote]      oooh Tayo, lol, look who's being naughty now 

By the way, I'm gonna be in Boston sometime next month. Will be there for two nights with family. Sister graduating!

Oh fantastic! I can't believe its already flown by so fast . . . I never got to meet up with your sis like I planned. I hope this time I will be able to sneak in a little time to say hello . Pls do let me know when! you got my email

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=628461.msg8058538#msg8058538 date=1302023875]In defense of Farrakhan's position on foreign and domestic policy, read the following Statement of Foreign Policy proposed on June 3rd 1997 and then implemented by the Bush Administration in Iraq in March 2003.



This proposal was authored by the following civil servants:

Elliott Abrams; Gary Bauer; William J. Bennett; Jeb Bush; D. Cheney; Eliot A. Cohen; Midge Decter; Paula Dobriansky; Steve Forbes; Aaron Friedberg; Francis Fukuyama; Frank Gafney; Fred C. Ikle; Donald Kagan; Zalmay Khalilzad; I. Lewis ; Norman Podhoretz; Dan Quayle, Peter W. Rodman; Stephen P. Rosen; Henry S. Rowen; Donald Rumsfeld; Vin Weber; George Weigel; Paul Wolfowitz.

On the surface these ipeople, collectively,  are no more than honorable public officials and private businessmen . . . .social leaders and accomplished citizens.  When you scrutinize their individual closely a pattern begin to form.

Who speaks for the Africans?
  In absense of a voice. . . Farrakhan has filled the void.  When a more respecting and influential voice come up I am sure Farrakhan will step aside.  Until then, he has a sweet voice on the issue.[/quote]And who speaks for the Chinese americans? Mexican Americans? Italian Americans? Armenian Americans? Indian Americans? African americans make up ~13% of the US population. Surely we cannot expect equal representation in all facets of the government - especially when AA's hardly participate or show interest in politics or community affairs. Rather you see too many of the youth tuning in to 106 & Park.

  And while diversity is always a huge plus, we cannot let ourselves be jaded into thinking that just because we throw some dark chocolate into the cream, it will suddenly taste better. Yes diversity is the soil on which a better, culturally rich nation can be grown, but it must not be 'forced' or imposed, but rather be the natural overflow of the black community rising up to the challenge and challenging ourselves to be and do better - rather than continuing to blame the 'white man' for 'oppressing' us.

  If Farrakhan is the only representative 'voice' for AA's in the limelight (I personally think they're others) then it is probably better that AA's have no representation at all. I'd rather have no Nigerian's in boston 'representing' us than a crooked racist one, giving a false impression that all Nigerians are like that.

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[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=628461.msg8058390#msg8058390 date=1302022236]How did I miss that? Yes, this Spring. I was initially scheduled for Fall but then I pushed it forward to Spring. Get with me in email. Neegronations@gmail.com[/quote]Ah! awesome. I will get at you sir.

^ lol.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Player-poll-rates-notorious-floppers-as-NBA-821?urn=nba-wp868

Sports Illustrated Top Floppers in the NBA (from polling nba players):
1. Anderson Varejao
2. Manu Ginobili
3. Luis Scola
4. Derek Fisher
5. Kevin Martin
6. Shane Battier
7. Jarron Collins
8. Raja Bell
9. Jose Barea
10. Andres Nocioni

I especially agree with the bolded. Ginobili is really shameless in that regard. And Fisher as well. Top notch flop artists.