₦airaland Forum

Richieboyn: Goodmorning mods. Please I will like this thread about Ascension to be on the homepage to remind the Catholic Faithfuls of their Faith and why they practise it. Thank you very much.

www.nairaland.com/1284366/today-ascension

AND

www.nairaland.com/1284366/today-ascension.

(The two threads are the same thing actually. So please delete the one that has less or no comments. It was network issues dat made me create 2). THANK YOU!

Done .

Reyginus: Mods, I'd like to know why my post was hidden?

HumbledbYGrace: simply because you broke one of the 101 rules of nairaland!

Lol. Uncle ReyG, because you quoted a post that was hidden.

[quote author=Bélla3]AM LOST ON THE BOLD.[/quote]No problem girl. Like I said before, sometimes these things take time and effort.

Lets try this, you familiar with the story of Joseph?

-sold into slavery by his brothers as a young man
-falsely accused & thrown in jail for years
-finds favor with the Pharoah
-becomes a great man in Egypt

After Joseph's father died, his brothers became afraid that Joseph would turn on them for selling him into slavery decades ago. This is what Joseph said to them (read the story and pay attention to the portions in bold):

Gen 50: 14 After burying Jacob, Joseph returned to Egypt with his brothers and all who had accompanied him to his father’s burial. 15 But now that their father was dead, Joseph’s brothers became fearful. “Now Joseph will show his anger and pay us back for all the wrong WE did to him,” they said.

16 So they sent this message to Joseph: “Before your father died, he instructed us 17 to say to you: ‘Please forgive your brothers for the great wrong they did to you—for their sin in treating you so cruelly.’ So we, the servants of the God of your father, beg you to forgive our sin.” When Joseph received the message, he broke down and wept. 18 Then his brothers came and threw themselves down before Joseph. “Look, we are your slaves!” they said.

19 But Joseph replied, “Don’t be afraid of me. Am I God, that I can punish you? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it all for good. He brought me to this position so I could save the lives of many people. 21 No, don’t be afraid. I will continue to take care of you and your children.” So he reassured them by speaking kindly to them.

See the key points...Joseph's brothers clearly admit the wrong-doing was theirs, they chose to do evil to Joseph. They freely exercised their freewill. And in Joseph's reply he says this so beautifully: "You intended to harm me, but God meant it for good".

^think about this sister. God was omniscient in knowing that Joseph's brothers would sell him into slavery BUT God did not stop or prevent it. Instead, God worked within the evil choices they made and eventually fulfiled His purpose of blessing Joseph and saving countless lives through him. Along the way so many other evil things happened to Joseph but they all aligned in such a way that resulted in an audience with the Pharoah and he found favor that changed his life. This is how freewill & God's ultimate purpose works. Hope that helps . And don't worry if you don't get it...that is what the Holy Spirit is for, to communicate godly truths that words will never be able to.
Blessings girl.

MMW, ejo please no vex for ^. A couple things you were/are not aware of and I forgot to inform you...check your inbox before you unhide that. Thanks dude!

striktlymi: Okay ma'am...I will keep quiet and just observe...

Uncle don't keep quiet now lol. Just focus replies on Bellas question and we can all discuss and get something profitable out of it. We can all learn from each other, all the side-shows are not worth it . Muchos gracias sir.

Ihedinobi: @JeSoul

Darling sis, I believe you understood her need better than I did. Grace be multiplied to you, sis.

Nah...its great to get input from different perspectives - the more dividers are present, the more morsels are cut into pieces for us all to chew & be edified . I always enjoy your take no prisoners approach to issues, very refreshing!

striktlymi: Evening Jesoul,

Are pictures prohibited? But LB has his very own pics and nothing was said about it. I thought you were only particular about the size...

No oga sir, pictures are not prohibited - derailing a thread is what I'm refering to in this case. Whether it is pictures, gifs or cartoons. Thank you dude, highly appreciated.

[quote author=Bélla3]I guess i need prayers coz am entirely lost here.[/quote]You're not "lost" sis. Sometimes, truth takes time. You're asking questions and thinking - you're on the right track.

Are you trying to say that God knows the future, bt at the same time isnt sure it'll come to pass? I dont know how an author can know how a story will end, at thesame time gives his characters freewill.

No, not quite sis. Consider these two statements at the heart of your question...(I'll provide scripture verses in a sec)

¹God is omniscient & knows all things - past, present & future.
²God gave human beings freewill to make independent choices

So how can an Omniscient God simultaneously also permit freewill? The two statements overlap - but they don't contradict. God knows what you will do, and the choices you will make - and He works within those choices that Bella will make to bring about His ultimate plan. This is very different from saying He controls or determines Bella's will. I hope you see this subtle but very important distinction. He will weave the choices that Bella makes, into the choices that Jesoul makes, into the choices that Ihedinobi makes - into a woven fabric that represents His ultimate will. He can and does this because He is God, and nothing is impossible for Him to do.

If God is omiscient, then he knows those destinied for hell.

Yes He does. And it doesn't negate the fact that those people still have the ability to choose for themselves.

I guess this isnt something you understand by mere common sense.

Indeed it isn't. But don't be discouraged. As many who freely ask, shall freely receive, wisdom & knowledge to understand His ways.

Is there a particular verse that says God is omniscient?

Just a few...
Psalm 139:15–16
15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. 16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

1 Kings 8:39
39 then hear in heaven your dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to all his ways (for you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind)

1 John 3:20
for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything

Isaiah 46:9–10
9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done , saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

Psalm 139:4
4 Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.

Thanks for all the humble replies, very much appreciated.

Thanks for the opportunity to divide God's word unto the edification of the saints . Godbless!

Striktlymi...your pictures again common now...lets not trash out the topic - this is how it starts. Thank you sir!

[quote author=Bélla3]Lately i have been doing alot of thinking because of this question: 'how can God give freewill, at thesame time be omniscient (ie be know all things- past, present and future)?'


*trolls not invited*[/quote]Hiya Bella, these are very good questions. This thread may be useful to you...
https://www.nairaland.com/336414/freewill-teaching-point-passed-across/1#4731737

JeSoul: ttalks, you're muddying the waters a lil bit here brotha. Lets look at Rom 9 in total context shall we?

---

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

---

I daresay this portion of scripture is not talking about God controlling our wills - it is saying God's ultimate will/purpose will be done regardless! and there's nothing man can do to stop or resist it. This is very different from saying He controls or determines our will. I hope you see this subtle but very important distinction.

and if you don't, how do you explain these verses in scripture?
John 7:17
If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Mk 3:35 Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother

there could not be a clearer portion of scripture that shows we do have a choice whether or not to do the will of God. Which is why this next quote from you is extremely problematic:
So in essence your position is we never have a choice? we are simply pawns in God's supernatural chess game who really have no say in determining anything about the course of our lives?

We agree God's purpose and ultimate will will always be accomplished no matter what, but where we differ is how this purpose gets accomplished. You say he determines our will and in essence our choices, I say He works within the choices that we make because He has foreknowledge of what we will do - and uses this to bring about His will and purpose. Does He influence our wills sometimes? absolutely! does He ever determine it? I don't think that is biblically accurate.

2Buff, its been submitted. Nice thread!

Ihedinobi: Great, sis. How you been?

We thank God oh. Glad you're well. Stay blessed .

Ishilove: I just stumbled on a thread now. I must say that I find the pictures there extremely offensive to my beliefs as a christian. I don't know what manner of possessed and demonised human beings that go about opening these kinds of threads that make a mockery of Christianity. I know Mac and deols won't allow such in the Islam section, so why on earth should such be allowed over here? I am deeply offended and I request that the satanic thread be deleted immediately. Freedom of speech does not translate to license to misbehave. Back in the days King David would have had their heads on a pike for this kind of rubbish

Here's the demonic thread: www.nairaland.com/1242560/jesus-zombie-myth-debunked#15614774

Sister, you're right. Its my responsibilty to take care of such, apologies on cases like these that I miss or drop the ball. Thread gone to where it belongs.
Thanks!

Ihedinobi: ^^



Couldn't possibly do better than this response of JeSoul's.

Lb, as always, your post was a heap of patent nonsense and lies.

Yo 'Hedi! wassup dude?

Logicboy03: "A true christian in every sense is one who is dead to this world"


The logical conclusion from the above quote is that a true christian is apathetic and only cares about his or her religion.


When I asked a question- given a choice, would you improve nigeria or choose to got heaven? Not one christian chose to save Nigeria.


Jesoul, it is insulting to our intelligence to make the above quote and then complain that we atheists are just rushing to bash christianity that we dont understand. Sorry, the quote is both silly and dangerous, no matter your rationalisation. We atheists understand christianity quite well and we understand the implications quite well- many of us have been christians longer than you and been through many religions.


You open your arrogant mouth once again to claim that most christians do not practice true christianity. Are you practicing true christianity yourself? Was it not you that I opened a thread about, showing how your christian views changed after meeting atheists? Have you forgotten your earlier threads where you were less tolerant of atheists?


Furthermore, your claim that atheists misunderstand christianity is hypocritical. Many atheists were christians before but you have never been an atheist. Worse, you then arrogantly go on to clsim that Majaze is doing pop tart atheism.....who the hell are you to label different types of atheism based on your opinion? You that cant even define atheism?


What kind of explanation is this-



“Atheists (by definition) have the unfailing ability to consistently mis-represent the Christian viewpoint - for obvious reasons."





By the way, atheism can not be evaangelical. Contradiction

JeSoul: atheists would do better to simply spectate while Christians are hashing out issues & working out their Salvation.

Atheists attempting to apprehend & counter christian matters...its like watching a white boy from surbuban Montana trying to rap about ghetto life in Brooklyn ...awkward, clumsy and simply embarrasing. I dunno why you guys are taking panadol for our headache, leave us with out foolish beliefs, wetin consign you?

1 Cor 2:
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Vikin: Made some tomatoes sauce with beef and champignons with sausage coupled with pasta...no time for pics, left overinI fridge,

"No time for pics" "no patience to wait for plantain to ripe" ...are we seeing a pattern here? lol. And I've learnt something today...honestly had to google "champignons". Sounds like a lovely dinner and hope it was whole wheat pasta ...
I think its fish & sweet potatoes for the jesoul household tonight (only 4pm here )

Vikin: ...

This one is free....

Damn. Lol.

Vikin: Lol....no time...I had plenty and only me will eat them, so the earlier I start the better...got them very expensive hence the eating all

Lol. Patience na virtue now ...so is sharing we can help you out here

You sef too like gist! Back to the food.

Lol. Oya what are you cooking tonight?

Roland17: Lol, me my sef would struggle without those guys, honestly i feel Paul pierce deserves the chance to end his career with the Celtics, he has been very faithful, i remember when he was draft and the dry spell we went through, but he stuck with us until KG's coming, i would be very sad to see him leave if Danny Ainge makes that financial decision, as for KG, i don't think there is a player more respected than this Guy in the NBA, save for Duncan, but his future with the Celtics is really bleak, but hey we can only cross our fingers and hope.

My fingers ain't crossed oh...they are in trigger position...let Danny Ainge just make one false move...FIRE! seriously, they absolutely deserve to close out their careers in green...especially as they are still productive on the floor...KG with 17rebounds the other day. They ain't scrubs at all.

---

Meanwhile, just to make sure ya'll didn't miss this news:
Thunder's Fisher fined $5K for flopping
http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/06/derek-fisher-fined-flopping.ap/index.html?cid=nba_13_OBNews
Waz a'bout time! hope members of the heat are soon tagged as well...those guys are drama queens.

[quote author=ekt_bear]chris bosh = bum[/quote]Chris Bum?

birdman: that was all wade...even after a week's rest dude looks injured

ROTFLOL funny.

Nice win for the Pacers! And Wake up Miami, looks like the long break took ya'll off your game. I'm not sure how much longer Chicago can run the Nate train...something's gotta give soon...

Vikin: Hubby doesn't really like Nigerian food, so I had all these for myself!

Pls no salivating Abeg!

This was last month though....

Lol. Why didn't you allow the plantain to ripe well well now?

@Ogugua,
nice skills!

HumbledbYGrace: INDEED

I hope this is a happy "indeed" oh or perhaps I still have more restitution to do for the forgiveness to be complete? say it ain't so sister...

Pastor Kun: ^^^
Thanx dear for the concern and effort, very much appreciated.

You welcome sir . I'm here for ya'll. Besides, we wouldn't want you missing any more holy emails from Reverend Goshen.

mazaje: This is really pathetic view of life and is actually one of the reasons religious societies never make any meaningful development. . .Why develop or contribute anything to the world, when you believe that the world will end during your life time or because you believe it does not matter at all and is of no importance. . .People prefer to live their lives thinking it doesn't matter while believing a mythical after life that no one has ever or can ever show exist is of more importance. . .Such view of life makes life meaningless and it is truly pathetic. . I actually prefer the prosperity gospel advocates that will tell you that this life is very important and as such you have to enjoy every bit of it and prosper in all you do because prosperity is also part of godliness. . .This "we are just passing by and shouldn't care about this world , because we are not a part of it" brand of christianity is pathetic. . .It leads to nothing but misery. . .

Been meaning to address a few things on this thread...time time time....anyways...

This is exhibit A on why atheists would do better to simply spectate while Christians are hashing out issues & working out their Salvation. Atheists (by definition) have the unfailing ability to consistently mis-represent the Christian viewpoint - for obvious reasons. For the sake of other christians reading today or in 10years, let me try to expand a bit on my initial comment (though Ijawkid try no be small )

"A true christian in every sense is one who is dead to this world"

^does this mean a christian is 'useless' to the world? does it mean a christian does not try with all his/her might to make this world better than he/she met it? does this mean christians do or should not care about this world? does this mean christians would make up an anarchist society? does this mean christians are miserable?

Only the carnal mind of an athiest can perform enough illogical extrapolations and arrive at the above conclusions from the starting quote.

Being "dead to this world" indicates living with a higher sense of purpose and calling, recognizing life is just a phase in eternity --> this DOES NOT equal a total relegation of earthly responsibility as some atheists are wrongly concluding. Look around, there are countless examples of christians who are leaders in their various fields, spear-heading various charities, changing this world and making it better for everyone. There are also successful atheists in every field as well. The key difference is their motivation for doing what they do. The atheist is probably motivated by improving his circumstances, his wealth is his security so he naturally chases after it because this world is it for him...whereas the christian is motivated by one single goal - to bring Glory to God (of which a big part is serving other people) - and this fuels every aspect of his temporary existence on earth. The christian will be the best he can be/do at everything (work, school, relationships, community etc), he/she will aim for 100% excellence BECAUSE he/she serves God, it is a natural by-product of his/her new nature in Christ:

Colossians 3:23-24
Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

So fellow christians, resist the urge of antagonists to box into boundaries that don't exist. And please, no irrelevant mentions of naija as an example of 'failed christianity' because as Obadiah said, what majority practice is not christianity but rather idolatry.

And finally, directly at oga Mazaje now...next time, if you need clarification, just ask. We could've saved you a handful of straws in response to what is obviously a poor grasp of what the christian position actually is. Champions of reason, okay oh, it would be more like merchants of mockery because ya'll are adeptly skilful at ridiculing people of faith and things you may not agree with or believe in. *sigh* Mazaje circa 2009... way less belligerent pop-tart evangelistic atheism must be infectious...

Damn. Proof that wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age. Only God knows what other crimes she has commited as a younger woman.

musKeeto: Good day Je Mama and Mmw..

Front page rec:
https://www.nairaland.com/1274525/typing-amen-facebook#1274525.14

And MMW has actually already submitted it so thanks to him!

Pastor Kun: @Jesoul
What's up? You said I shd contact you here.

Thanks. First hope you are well and doing great in mind, body and soul . You had asked earlier about not receiving private messages in your email inbox though you got an alert on NL. I have your answer from Seun:

Pastor kun's email address is a hotmail address. There used to be an issue with mail delivery to hotmail addresses. It was fixed, but then after the maintenance operation I did recently the problem returned for a few days until it could be fixed by my service provider. Those emails are lost, though. Pls convey my apologies about that to Pastor Kun.

Seun sends his apologies on the lost messages and the problem should be fixed now.

musKeeto: Good day Je Mama and Mmw..

Front page rec:
https://www.nairaland.com/1274525/typing-amen-facebook#1274525.14

Uhm uncle Skeeto...I read the topic twice and still don't understand what exactly he's trying to say this shorthand generation self... can you pls decode this mystery?

Richieboyn: Body dey oooo.... I dnt want to derail this thread if not I would have asked if I could get ur Facebook or Whatsapp contact...

I'm glad that you are well by His grace. And no wahala at all...its just I'm not much of an online social networker its been years my friends have been asking me to get with Whatsapp

Uncle Kunle...been meaning to get a hold of you regarding the last question you'd asked me. Please reply on the mod thread. Thanks!