₦airaland Forum

MuttleyLaff:
Madam you obviously didnt read the memo, so I'll repeat it here all over again just for you.

what is Hades? - Here we go again

Hades is the abode of the dead and it is located in Sheol
- it's like saying Lagos is in Naija

Hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell
In other words, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades

where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna,

paulGrundy:
http://biblehub.com/greek/2859.htm

I hope its now clear to all that the greek word for abrams bosom has a double fold meaning.

1. Bosom of a garment
2. A bay, gulf.

paulGrundy

Pauls revelation in 2corithians 12:2 should be dismissed on the basis that its a vision??
Do my eyes decieve me??

If pauls revelation should be dismissed on that basis, then his apostolic legitmacy should be dismissed on the basis that his conversion was fake because he encountered Jesus in a vision. Acts 9:1-19.

paulGrundy:
Funny how it is argued that abrahams bossom can be translated to mean abrams chest alone. But the same logic is not applied to the story of the richman and lazarus.

So lazarus and the rich man were on top of Abrahams chest??

MuttleyLaff:
If you would keep at bay all your English and Naija misconceptions about what Sheol is
- this because they are based on faulty thinking about Sheol's composition or faulty understanding of what Sheol really is
Also if you accept that the Bible is Jewish/Aramaic in origin
and that Jesus was a Jew, who preached and taught in Jewish/Aramaic
then hearing that Hades is part of Sheol shouldnt shock, talkess of rattle you

This is talking of Sheol from a Jewish point of view, and not from an English, a Naija or any others' point of view
Sheol is a Jewish concept through and through, nothing more, nothing less. Capisce

what is Hades? - Here we go again

Hades is the abode of the dead and it is located in Sheol
- it's like saying Lagos is in Naija

Hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

MuttleyLaff:


... and that third heaven, he Paul, saw isnt Abraham's bosom or Paradise. He saw the real McCoy not paradise

Erm, it isnt a lie actually. []Bosom in the Bible has more meanings than literal chest[/b

No, as because in that particular context, she wasnt in Paradise
she was in that particular instance given to be personally and intimately on Abraham's side

As shared above, no, she in this instance, isnt or wasnt in paradise because she, Hagar was placed to be on Abraham's side by Sarah or ordered by Sarah to go on Abraham's side

Jesus told his disciples about a side in Sheol, which is the side Abraham is in (i.e. Abraham's bossom)

In the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the poor man was taken by the Angels to Abraham's side or part of Sheol (i.e. aka Paradise)
He wasnt taken to the Rich man's side or part of Sheol (i.e. aka Hades)

- Sheol has two parts: Hades where the Rich man was & Paradise or Abraham's side or Abraham's bosom, where Abraham and the Poor man was

Coolu temper ooo
Now sheathe the sword and stop scaring the fair ladies with shut the mouth forever ultimatum else learning opportunities will be lost

paulGrundy
Q- if the saints of old and present have not gone to
Heaven as you claim,

was Jesus lieing when he told the
theif on the cross that he would be in paradise that day?
luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be
with me in paradise."
Answer: there is no justification whatsoever for
alterations or insertions in the bible, if the original greek
text wasn't punctuated or spaced, then its only wise not
To use punctuation as basis to justify a doctrine. This
calls to question the disrespect sects have for the bible.
The funny thing about those promoting "punctuated
interpretation" is that they teach that salvation is gotten
through both faith and works. But the theif on the cross
did not “work out his salvation“ he only had faith. Hence
pointing out a flaw and contradicting a very fundamental
doctrine of theirs. Which ever way the comma is placed
still contradicts it anyway.
The bible talks about more than one heaven. Apostle
paul talked about a 3rd heaven:
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago –
whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the
body I do not know, God knows – such a one was
caught up in the third heaven. And I know such a man –
whether in the body or out of the body I do not know,
God knows – how he was caught up into Paradise and
Heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a
Man to utter.” (II Corinthians 12:2-4).
Revelation talked about a first heaven.
Revelation 21:1 - And I saw a new heaven and a new
Earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed
Away; and there was no more sea.
Gen 1;1, 2:1 talked about heaven in plural form. Hence
we know there are 3 heavens.
In luke 16 when Jesus talked about Lazarus and the
Richman, he made mention of Abrahams bosom- which
Greek and hebrew is translated place of bliss- the same
meaning with paradise.
Hence there are strong
indictations he went there. How can else can his
absence from the tomb be explained on the first day of
the week mary came there. Jesus obviously was with the
right hand theif in abrahams bosom/paradise/second
Heaven.

MuttleyLaff:
Bravo! You're on form.
- the scalp collection must be growing
I am never ceased to be amazed that to some extent and in certain areas,
you come across, as biblically knowing more than most of your opponents do

dolphinheart:
.........
Hello youguyz ( the gay oriented pastor)


I read ur post and wondered how I changed my stance. will like you to reply on that.

The issue was not about ressurection, the issue was about ressurection to heaven . Trying to defend firstfruits with ressurection before kesus is false and bad knowledge about the scriptures. Hence I asked him severa

There are several questions posed to paulgrundy in my post which you quoted.
The one about being ressurected with inperishable body was not answered by him.
You defend him, can you help him answer those questions ?

The questions are :
1.That it also means that they
Have already been judged ?
2.If so, who will later be righteous and unrighteous that are ressurected in the last day?
3. Who will hades and the sea
give up later, when they are
not there any longer.?

Yooguyz:


Paulgrundy come and see oh! They said where the bible put the comma is not correct!

That the comma is supposed to be after "today".

. Ok na, na really comedic responses.

Dolphinheart, captivator entertain us small.

Jozzy4:
lol , So your gods are so many " THEY" polytheism . lol

; If you have read my response ,you will see that the book of Daniel quoted at Op hav nothing to do with your preconceived ideas .

The they in that verse are the watcherS (plural coz they are many) ( Dan 4:17) .

paulGrundy:
dolhinheart, captivator, jozzy and co,
if the saints of old and present have not gone to heaven as you claim,

was jesus lieing when he told the theif on the cross that he would be in paradise that day?
luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, [size=20pt]today[/size] you will be with me in paradise."
Lemme entertain myself with comedic responses.

CAPTIVATOR:
@ red " as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus commanded them: " Tell THE VISION to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead" "" Matt 17:9

paulGrundy
Of course , another lie will be told

paulGrundy
Jesus never called the event at the transfiguration a parable or a vision

paulGrundy:
[s]
Biblical proof? Meanwhile check this out:

Hebrew 12:29;

" For our God is a consuming fire".

Between you and the bible who is telling lies?? [/s]

Any scripture to proof that a spirit being cannot be in destroyed by an eternal fire??

NB: we are working by scriptures oh, not by any bodys sentiments or feelings.
One question for you, will sodom and Gomorrah be ressurected on the last day?

paulGrundy
Hades means grave, men are buried in the grave.

paulGrundy:
Simple! the begining of judgement of the unrightoes in a burning lake of fire marks the end of death and hades. Those tormented in the lake of fire, will not die or be buried because death is no more. They will be in perpertual pain and torture.

paulGrundy:
Revelation 20:10-14King James Version (KJV)

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Luke 17:28-30 ...'Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and [size=26]destroyed them[/size] all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed'

These two scriptures have a strong connection- brimstone, fire, torment. The answer is clear, Jesus was clear you just aren't the one seeing it.

paulGrundy:
I believe this scripture will provide you an alternative view on your interpretation.

Revelation 20:10-14King James Version (KJV)

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

“False prophet“, “devil“, “cast in fire“, “torment“. Those are powerful words you can't overlook. The only information the bible provided to us about death is that he is an enemy that would be destroyed last. Is he a person? I don't know, is it inanimate? I don't know. Problem occurs when we try to provide a reasoning our biblical exegenisis or dismiss scriptural texts because we feel they sound illogical. that probably explains the several back and forth contradictions of the watchtower surrounding this subject.

johnw74:
You don't believe the Bible you couldn't be told anything

paulGrundy:
No, but a similar experience would happen to our generation. Hence it serves as an example to us.

Luke 17:28-30 ...'Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed'

Jesus here gives us a clear picture of how the world would be destroyed, by fire.

paulGrundy:
Lake of fire in revelation 20:14, has one of its greek meaning to be eternal torment .

No, but a similar experience would happen to our generation. Hence it serves as an example to us.

ebbybest:
U are the one who is most confused here.
I rebuke you in the name of the lord. U can't understand these things but pray for understanding

dolphinheart:
Jessicha has said its either you are confused or jesus is not right. Ur reply shows you are confused.
You started by quoting the scriptures, now you are making statements without scriptural backup.


Hades is an escort indeed!


Now let me ask you this :
1.What burns in hell, the soul , the body or spirit or any combination of the three of them.
2. What part of the 3 is in control of mans consciouness.
3. You said something about ressurection earlier, do you go to hell before or after ressurection ?
4. The ressurection you mentioned in which the mortals take on imortality, what happens to those who do not take on imortality or are not raptured.
5. What is the difference between the first ressurection and other resurrections?
6. Is sodom and gomorra still burning ?

minifuworld:
you are wiser than your God abi

minifuworld:
this is why i said that its only Al-Quran can provide straight forward answer to the subject matter. In an Al-Quran Allah said: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our revelation, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty and Wise. [quran 4-56]. This verse of Al-Quran also prove the discovery of Prof. Tegatat Tejasen '' on Pain Receptors in Skin'' Righ. Prof discover that its this our particular skin that we use to feel pain and that the moment the skin is remove we can no longer feel the pain therefore anybody that enter hell fire can only feel the pain for a while and immidiately the skin is remove that person will no longer experience the pain but Al-Quran said no we will continue to change their skin, that they may continue to taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty and Wise

ebbybest:
Soul is our immortal body.
The bible talked about soul in the the book of matthew 16:26 KJV
And also 1corinthians 15:53-54
Ezekiel 18;4

Most of all matthew 10:28 says do not fear those who kill the body but can not kill the soul but rather fear him who can destroy both soul nd body in hell

paulGrundy:
don't know all I know is that he is the last enemy to be destroyed.



Hades is deaths escort.

Your point is not valid, Jesus' use of a metaphor does not demise the existence of a burning hell, I want to believe you know his style of writing very well. Check this out:

Jude 7New International Version (NIV)

7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

ATMC:
Yes. " Male and female created him them" was before "...and God breathed into man and man became a living SOUL"


hmmmm

Hell fire is in God. Nothing exists outside God. "In him all things consist"

ATMC:
Soul is the name given to the Spirit-man when it enters this plane-earth.

The bible showed soul is not immortal. The soul that sinneth shall die!

What perishes in hell fire is the spirit.

paulGrundy:
Revelation 20:14;

“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death”.

Mark 9:47-48New International Version (NIV)

47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.’