₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
I wish you could be more specific in highlighting those and describing how they 'harden and twist' the scripture. At least it will help where corrections need to be made.


Correct!!!

Here lies the problem! The premises above suggest that the objects (Pharaoh, Israel) gave birth to the first born. Now how is Jesus Christ the First born of creation? Is creation there personified? Does this follow the pattern of your premise?


I suggest you search for another passage. Like I said, the context of this passage is Pre-eminence

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Of course, after His incarnation, He could suffer hunger, be limited by space, sleep, ...Die (and He rose from the Dead).

@ccording to the bold and underlined , Prov 8:24 : " I was given birth to" .How? The way earth was also given birth to , creation .

Scholar8200:
If we will be faithful to the context! However the term used in John 3:16 Monogene, means exactly what it was translated as!

All those personal opinions in bracket are lies meant to harden and twist the scripture .

Your post above reveal you are displaying hypocrisy .

Scriptural usage :

Is the firstborn of isreal , not a son of isreal ?

Is the firstborn of pharaoh , not a son of pharaoh ?

Why is the firstborn of creation , not a son of creation !

I highlighted that to underscore the fact of the passage focussing The Preeminence of Christ

Firstborn from the dead highlights that he was at one time dead . Same way firstborn of creation highlight he was part of creation .

Scholar8200:
15 He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation
(AMP)
The Greek there is prototokos from two words protos - first and tikto -to bear, bring forth, preeminent
It can be used literally (Matthew 1:25) or figuratively (to mean preeminent Colossians 1:15,18b)
The conclusion of that recitation in Colossians 1:15-18 proves that the writer stresses the Preeminence ie the figurative use of the word First- Born
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Colossians 1:18
Note the term Firstborn from the dead!

First , remove all those lies and personal opinions in bracket , they are not in the manuscript .

Scholar8200:
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature : 16 for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Then how come He is the First born of the creatures He created??

Explain the underlined.

Why did it not read that by Him were all things born (since you imply that born = created)

We are all born , are we then created beings ? Simple logic

OLAADEGBU:
There are sons of God= created beings and there is the Only begotten Son of God. Do you know the difference between created and begotten?

Jozzy has explained this earlier but let me add a few point :

Begotten : to cause to exist .

Isaac is called the " only begotten son" of Abraham [heb 11:17] , how was Isaac begotten or cause to exist ? Through sexual intercourse .

Now can you please tell us how Jesus was begotten ?

Go further and read verse 17 and you will discover that it says that Jesus is the firstborn over all creation, it did not say firstborn in creation there is a difference.

Firstborn OF all creation not firstborn over .. gerarahere

Scholar8200:
But it clearly says that He is the First BORN (not first creation)

O ga o , you took "firstborn" alone , where do you throw the next line that set the record straight . Not just firstborn but " firstborn of all creation " , firstborn of isreal is born of isreal , isnt it ? Why is the firstborn OF CREATION difficult for you to accept as the first BORN OF CREATION ?

but that He the First Born created all things. The passage differentiates being born and being created/made.

Hahaha , lol ; he was born but not created abi ? Explain to us how he was born

Sistersister

To say the trinity claims Gods spirit is a totally separate person is not correct .

That means the trinity is not correct

Trinity says there are three persons in one God . Nd the spirit of God The Father is considered a totally separate person .

Person 1 = the father

Person 2 = the son


Person 3 = holyspirit / spirit of God the father


Can you see ?

God is not a person

So what is he , Wind ? You av just destroyed the doctrine of trinity that said God is a combination of 3 distinct persons .

tempem:
Morning, done... hope you slept well?

Yes sir , so much appreciate you for been honest .

Y'all are confused , am wondering if the so - called christians immortal souls will have its own male and female organs .


Crazy doctrines .

Emusan:
Very simple! The Three make up the ONLY ONE just as a husband, wife and child(children) make up ONLY ONE Family yet they are all distinct persons.

Is it cleared?

The usage of the word " ONLY one" is focused on the noun , not the twist nd turn you are doing here , the noun is "family" .

If i should ask you : how many families constitute Only One Family ?

Emusan:
Cry me a river!

I'm not using Family to prove Trinity but what you emphasized on which is "ONLY ONE." I simply show you how ONLY ONE can be used for more than one person.

Sorry, try again!

ONLY one what exactly ? can be used for more than one person .

Only one person = a sole person Not three persons in one .

Only one family = a single family not three families in one

You need more basic english lessons .

tempem:
Read! But I don't believe them. Will check from the publications referenced

Very good , check the publications referenced to know the real truth and confirm the kind of person the OP Is .

Lie 4:

Emusan
"For centuries the churches propagated the doctrine4.
of the trinity,...the Father and the Son are part of the
Same entity" (Watchtower, June 2015 pg 15)

Truth : Full Article , Watchtower , June 2015


" For centuries, [size=25] the churches propagated the doctrine of the Trinity, [/size] claiming that the Father and the Son are part of the same entity. The antichrist thus shrouds in mystery the identity of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.
This mystery hinders sincere people from imitating Jesus Christ and drawing close to God, as the Bible encourages them to.— . "


http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015406

Lie 3 :

Emusan

"The Bible states that...God created the universe in six3.
literal 24-hour days" (Awake March, 2014 pg 5)

The Truth : Awake March , 2014

" The Bible states that God created “the heavens and the earth.” This broad statement, however, makes no reference to the length of time involved in creating the universe or to the methods he used to shape it. What
about the widespread creationist belief that God created the universe in six literal 24-hour days ? This concept, widely rejected by scientists, is based on a gross misunderstanding of the Bible account. Consider what The Bible really says.


The Bible does not
support
fundamentalists and
creationists who
The Bible does not
support fundamentalists
and creationists who
claim that the creative
days were literal 24-
hour days.


The Bible frequently
uses the term “day” to
designate various
periods of time. In
some cases these periods are of an unspecified length.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102014083

sweeping " away the refugee of lies " Isaiah 28:17

Lie 1 :

Emusan
"Unlike any other human, Jesus lived in heaven as a1 spirit person before he was born on earth...and is therefore appropriately called God." (Good news from God, Chapter 4-who is Jesus Christ, pg

The Truth : Goodnews From God , Chapter 4 - Who is Jesus Christ .


" Unlike any other human, Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he was born on earth. (john 8:23) He was God’s first creation, and he helped in the Creation of all other things. He is the only one created directly by Jehovah and is therefore appropriately called God’s “only-begotten” Son.
(John 1:14) Jesus served as Gods spokesman, so he is also called " the Word" - Read Proverbs 8:22,23,30 ; .Colosians 1:15,16

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102012186

Lie 2 :

Emusan
"We are...spirits living in a body of flesh...part of us2. Survives death." (Iblis, Chapter 6-what hope is there for
the dead? pg 12)

The Truth: Goodnews From God , Chapter 6 - what hope is there for the dead ?

.GENESIS 3:19
God told Adam: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.”—

Humans are made from dust. (Genesis 2:7; 3:19) We are not spirits living in a body of flesh. We are physical creatures, so no part of us survives death. When we die, Our brain dies too, and our thoughts perish. Thus, Lazarus said nothing about his experience of death because the dead are unconscious.—Read Psalm 146:4; .Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102012188

Emusan:
Very simple! The Three make up the ONLY ONE just as a husband, wife and child(children) make up ONLY ONE Family yet they are all distinct persons.

Is it cleared?

In a family each person is not family , but according to trinity doctrine . " Each person is God " and not a part of God .

O ma se o , since each of the Three is God , how can they make up ONLY One God ?

Emusan:
You supposed to add ONE to it.

Eeyah, na wa o Ok , how dare you use ONLY one to qualify three persons ?

SisterSister:
How about looking at it like this?

Christians believe humans are made in the image of God. The one God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Mind, body and spirit = one person

Our mind is every much a part of us but is separate
Our body is a part of us but separate
Our spirit is a part of us but separate

Yet, still we are only one person

You are complicating things for yourself .

If image of God means mind + body + spirit , then God is one person .

God has a mind [1Cor 2:16]

God have a spiritual body [1Cor 15:40,44]

God have spirit [gen 6:3]

Your analogy then proves God is one person , or you are totally using the wrong illustration.

Note : the trinity claim the spirit of God is a totally different person . Which is proved false by your human analogy , is our spirit a different person ? No . God said " My spirit" Genesis 6:3 , Which Proves its not a separate person just like in humans , who re his image .

SisterSister:
I missed it totally...for some reason the first illustration didn't copy??

***The Messiah by nature is God
Elijah and the prophet by nature are human
The Messiah, Elijah and the prophet is not one human.
The Messiah, Elijah and the prophet are not three humans. Only Elijah and the prophet are human. The Messiah is God who took on humanity.

***The Heavenly Father by nature is God
Jesus the Son is by nature God
The Holy Spirit by nature is God
The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit is one God only
The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are not three gods

Defending your faith doesnt mean you should forget basic english sister .

@ underlined , how dare you use the word "Only" that refer to single , sole person to describe three persons ?

Emusan:
@dolphinheart

I've read it now?

Like I said the booklet has a lot to do with the issue at hand, that's why I want you to read it because by the time I start making reference to it, it won't be strange to you.

My view on Trinity is the general view held by all true Christian in the world.

There's ONLY ONE TRUE GOD which scripture reveals in the person of The Father, The Son and The Holy spirit.

So I'll reply your post when you're ready.

I just need Yes or No!

Less I forget, mention the scripture you're going to use for me I will use any of this KJV, NIV, NASB, YLT, NLT, CJB, ESV, NKJV, ERV, EXB, GW, ISV, PHILIP, TLB, NIRV, NLV, OJB

My question is : If the bolded statement refer to three (3) persons , how can you use the word "ONLY" which refer to a sole person to describe 3 persons ?

fabre4:
Is almighty God in human form?
Humans all die and remain dead but death could not hold jesus captive he broke out of the grave with the key I.e he took control over the grave and resurrected that's why we celebrate easter. This is a very simple concept to understand
So to answer your question he died that was why he came to earth to die read philippians 2: 5-10 he died because he took human form but when he was in heaven without human form did he die ?No. The reason I said Jesus was immortal was because death could not keep him in the grave

*smiling* If wat you wrote above is wat makes Jesus the Almighty, then We Re Almighty Too

Okay, the reason why we died too is because we are in human form , u know ? And the bible promise a ressurection which means death wont us forever in the grave too . Infact some humans will even be sharers in divine nature like Christ ( 2pet 1:4 ). immortality (1 cor 15:53 ) , they wont die in heaven

fabre4:
He took up his divine nature after conquering death and resurrecting

Then that proves ur statement that Jesus is immortal based on the fraud that he was both divine&human on earth is a pure lie . He is simply in a slaves form , human . And Jesus died .

Habakuk 1:12 , Almighty God do not die .

fabre4:
He took up his divine nature after conquering death and resurrecting

Then that proves ur statement that Jesus is immortal based on the fraud that he was both divine&human on earth is a pure lie . He is simply in a slaves form , human . And Jesus died .

Habakuk 1:12 , Almighty God do not die .

OLAADEGBU:
You need to read the Bible to broaden your horizon. Jesus said who you should fear:

"And fear not them who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28).

O ga o , but the verse said we should fear him [God] not fear hell .

When will you grow up ?

OLAADEGBU:
It is my intention to scare the hell out of you. Be honest and admit that you are scared when you hear about death and hell? This phobia makes folks become atheists thinking that they can blot this reality out of their conscience. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Take This Test -->> www.needgod.com

Oh ! You are using fear , perfect evidence that you aint from God .

" God is Love" 1 John 4:8


" There is no Fear in Love , but perfect love casts fear out , because fear restrains us . Indeed , the one who is fearful has not been made perfect in Love"
_ 1 john 4:18

fabre4:
Jesus is God
God is immortal
Jesus is immortal












Death does not apply to immortals. One would be tempted to ask what then happened to jesus? Its simple jesus was humanity and divinity personified so the part of him that died was the human part leading to the manifestation of his divinity which was why he could break the law of gravity

The moment I see the underlined , I recognized the hypocrisy of you and Olaadegbu

@underlined ; " No, but he emptied himself and took a slave form and became human" Philipins 2:7

Since scripture said He emptied his divine nature and became human , who are you to say he came to earth with his divine nature and didnt empty it ?

Richirich713:
"And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him" Matthew 17:1-8.

Are u telling me here at jesus transfigured , moses and Elijah are just an illusion and not real.

Jesus said the transfiguration is just a " Vision" Matthew 17:9 , do you belive him ?

Am sure Jesus know the scripture that said " the dead , dont know anything" ecc 9:5

Again death does not mean non-existent.

Double standard is ur problem .
Your pastor said flesh die , it means what ? Tell me what death is from that statement .

I was speaking about HUMANS not animals, animals are NOT created in the image of God

Lame ! Dont you read that When it comes to death " man has no superiority over animals .. All are going to the same place " ? Ecc 3:19,20

Richirich713:
Jesus death does not mean non-existent, he still existed after death.

If he still exist after death , that means he never died . It means he only pretends to die but was actually alive .


The keyword is " death" nd it applies to All living things . Are you now saying when living things die they dont cease to exist ? Lol , goats and lion must be in heaven

Bernimoore , Truthislight , Jman05 And Dolphinheart ... I like the way you calmly dealt with all this Haters of truth

johnw74:
Duh, I will tell you what you think an Angel is,
you think an Angel is a messenger, and that's it

Angels are much more than messengers,
Angels are God's warriors, they perform God's Judgments
and they do whatever God wants of them
Angels are not humans, Angels are not God
the Word Jesus Christ created the Angels, of which lucifer was

Sir , the greek and hebrew word translated angel in the scripture simply means " a messenger" .


No wonder the Scripture call Jesus an angel/messenger
( Malachi 3:1 )

In Exodus it is the angel of the Lord of course, that from the front led them

Sir , ... He also followed them from the back .

" Then the angel of the true God who was going ahead of the camp of Isreal departed and went to their rear" Ex 14:19 , he clearly followed them .

In 1 Corinthians the rock is Christ that followed them

johnw74:
I dont have discussion with those who don't believe the Bible and change what it says.
I have shown you and bernimoore to be wrong in this thread.

1. angel means what ?

2. Who is that angel that led the isrealites out of Egypt ? Exodus 23:20, 21 , 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 ,

Jeromejnr:
Is this a trick question?

Why do you think Jesus was rolling on the floor in agony and sweating great drops of blood. (as the Greek text implies). Do you think He was going through all that because of whips and spits and nails on His hands. Where there not other thieves beaten and also crucified?

The Greek original text used very strong words for that event many are not aware of.

You didnt answer my question - how was Gods wrath poured on him in the heart of the earth ?