₦airaland Forum

Women of honor!!!
God bless pharmacists for saving lives with drugs.

God bless Nigeria!!!

CarrilT:
I get really embarrassed by the amount of venom and bad blood existing between doctors and non doctors in Nigeria. Sincerely it is difficult for peace to reign when each group sees things only from their own perspective. What we need is mutual respect. All the professionals are important and indispensable in the provision of qualitative health care to our patients. For those of us who have had the unique privilege of training as a non doctor and also as a doctor it is easier to understand the sentiments from both sides. Now let me give a brief overview of my personal experience. I trained as a physiotherapist many years ago at OAU, this was purely out of choice and my first and second choices then was physiotherapy. Something happen to me during my NYSC year in Portharcourt that made me finally decided to go back to study medicine which I've actually been contemplating right from 300L in Ife. On a that faithful Friday night a young man was attacked and matcheted by hoodlums. The man was rushed to our hostel by some good Samaritan when they heard that there are some doctors there. As fate would have it, this guys knocked on my door violently and by the time I saw the injured man, I was simply overwhelmed. I did a little but of course I wasn't trainned as a physiotherapist to handle such case. I quickly dashed to me friend Dr. Chidi room who is also a corper. The calmness, expertise and confidence with which he handled the injured man made an indelible impression on me and from that day I vowed to study medicine. By the grace of God today I'm a consultant neurologist. Right from the undergraduate days and also during my period working as a physiotherapist, we had so much disdain and hatred for doctors. We see them as pompous, arrogant but in the real sense that is not always the case. Now that I've gone through the medical school and postgraduate training as a doctor I know what it means to be a doctor. For all my JOHESU brethren, you can't understand that feeling unless you experience it. A couple of my physiotherapy colleagues, nurses and pharmacist have gone back to medical school to study medicine. For those who want balanced perspective I appeal to you to interact with such people. In many countries one cannot even go and study medicine directly you must have a degree in science and health related courses. I was the best student in physiotherapy in my set at OAU in 1997, I didn't have to strain myself too much because the courses were semester courses and with minimal effort I scored A in most of my courses. Medical school is very different, the exam is a whole session that is one year, sometimes the exams even ask what you have done in previous classes. My morbid anatomy note alone was more than all the notes I had in 300L physiotherapy combined. I have experienced both sides and I want to appeal to my JOHESU brothers to give the doctors the respect they deserve. What you call arrogance most times is confidence and being authoritative which are ingredients essential to be a successful doctor. As a doctor, we have to show respect to all other health professionals, each profession is unique in its own right and we are interdependent on each other. Resolving the perennial squabbles between doctors and non doctors in Nigeria requires a fair and holistic assessment of the situation, I think the Yayale Ahmed committee came close to that. We have to adopt international best practice and modify it to suit our peculiarities here. I have made some recommendations earlier and have received knocks especially from the JOHESU group though one of them who is my close friend called and agreed with most of my points. We have to sit down, talk and negotiate the best formulae that can work for us. I will stop for now.
Dr omojowolo olubunmi
Bsc physiotherapy ife
MBBS Lagos
FMCP neurology
Consultant neurologist mainland hospital Lagos.
Copied.

I can understand your bias doc. Your medical practice is what is putting food on your table right now, I don't expect objectivity from you on the matter. The plight of physiotherapists will be none of your concern right now.

If I may ask you doc, is medicine studied and practised only here in Nigeria How do medical doctors in the developed world manage to suppress their ego and relate well with other professionals in healthcare despite spending so many years in the university as well Those Canadian doctors that recently protested in favour of increased pay of other healthcare professionals, do they obtain their own medical qualifications from mars??

How do you justify starting a fresh graduate of MBBS in the civil service on grade level 12 while his counterparts who are pharmacists, physiotherapists or optometrists on level 9?? Take time and calculate the difference in terms of salary.

See, you people should stop all these your arguments of writing tough exams and studying hard. We all study hard and write tough exams too! Perhaps you don't know what students of pharmacy go through! They take both practicals and theory courses from the six departments that make up pharmacy, they write tough practical and theory exams every semester for 6 solid years! In some exams, you are required to synthesize a drug, formulate it and package it into a product within a few hours! They also juggle Between clinical rotations and their nonclinical classes. Many fail and get withdrawn along the line.

Talking about respect, nobody gets respected for merely studying a particular course. You are respected based on how you are able to utilize your knowledge to impact your society positively.
Besides, respect is reciprocal. You don't expect other healthcare professionals to respect you when you don't respect them.

If the Nigerian medical doctors want to be respected by other healthcare professionals, they should learn to respect others and their professions. They shouldn't try to open pharmacies and not employ a superintendent pharmacist until PCN comes to close down such pharmacies, they should employ qualified nurses and not train quacks as 'auxiliary nurses', they should respect the medical lab scientists by not employing lab technologists in place of medical lab scientists. The list is endless!
They not only disrespect the professionals by employing quacks, they also endanger patient's lives. Many have died as a result of this malpractice by Nigerian doctors.

Right from pharmacy school, pharmacists are trained on how to respect other healthcare professionals when working in a team. They take special courses in clinical pharmacy that prepares them to work in a team. Unfortunately, our medical doctor friends obviously do not receive such trainings, hence their mindless disrespect of healthcare professionals.

So, if the Nigerian medical doctors are ready for peace to reign in the healthcare sector, they should learn to accord respect to other healthcare professionals. Simple!

Xsem:
Whatever that rocks your boat. This is an overflogged issue and is not stopping anytime soon. Wait, let them finish their own strike and watch doctors go on their, and I hope you know how fatal theirs could be.

If they decide to go on strike because government granted JOHESU's demands, it will prompt the government to effect a radical change in our health sector. The position of the CMD will be proscribed and CEOs who are not healthcare professionals but unbiased Managers will be appointed. The CEOs will immediately sack all the striking doctors and place adverts to employ doctors from within and outside Nigeria who are ready to work on the CEOs terms.

To your amazement, the striking doctors would be replaced with immediate effect.
Some of you think you are the only ones who are smart. It's just that successive governments have been keeping quiet and treating you with kids gloves. Government knows what to do and will not hesitate to employ radical measures to treat your matter should you decide to strike because of the growth of your fellow healthcare professionals.
You forget that you are a minority in the healthcare team.

Xsem:
Nonsense, if you want to earn like a doctor, go and read medicine and surgery and become one. Rubbish

Stupid argument!

This is a good development!

Let them continue the strike until government corrects all the imbalances in our hospitals and treat all healthcare professionals with equity and fairness.


Enough of the 21st century enslavement of healthcare professionals who are nonmedical doctors.


Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere!

Say no to injustice!!!

ultron12345:
all what u wrote is what will be done to johesu. Johesu will remain foolishly adamant. Johesu staff will be sacked and quickly replaced with local and foreign staff. It's only a matter of time

Let's wait and see then.


Nowhere in the world has injustice ever triumphed over truth and fairness. Nigerian health sector will not be an exception.

globemoney:
keep shut and learn woman wrapper

I know your type...you are the type of guys that form "strong men" in public but when left with a real lady in the closet they soften like pap.

Like i said before, no be by mouth.

Bye

globemoney:
The man may have taken it too far by bringing in the I'm an engineer stuff but being a man is enough for him to tell her he doesnt know how to cook. Yes,so far he's the one paying the bills and her price. It's lilly liverd men like you that give these hoes the guts

Hehehehe...Do you have liver

See small boy wey dey claim liver.

You think say na by mouth

The common side effects to expect when taking misoprostol are nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps, constipation.

Oh, this is an old post.

Greystone:
My first thought was that the babe in question doesn’t love the guy and was looking for any excuse to end the relationship.
As I read through I came across the part that she mentioned that her brothers and her dad are great cooks so obviously she considers being a good cook is a very important attribute to a husband.
However, I feel both she and the guy approached the issue wrongly.

If she really loves the guy and wants him to be a good cook, why didn’t she advise him to take up cooking lessons to improve his skills?

And she wey dey talk, hope say she sabi cook?

And she should have also considered things from his own perspective. He is likely to have come from a family where the women do all the cooking.

For me, what i found wrong in the conversation is where the guy typed "I am a man o" "an engineer for that matter". That gives him off as an arrogant person who thinks that having a d1ck or being an engineer means that every other person is insignificant. That was rude of him! If he had said "oh, please i don't know how to cook yet, but i am learning to improve on my cooking skills", I'm sure the lady would have understood.

I support the lady jare! That's a lady who knows her worth.

The patient does not come to the hospital to "see doctor" but to get treated.
Are doctors movies

ultron12345:
if johesu like, let them strike for 2000 years. It's the silly majority of Nigerians supporting them that will still suffer, doctors will take care of their families. Private practice is booming.

Let's wait and see if you or NMA will be the ones to win the majority of Nigerians!


See what will happen in the nearest future...

1.Ministers of labour and health will foolishly remain adamant because they are biased in favour of NMA since they are medical doctors themselves.

2. The strike would continue and many innocent Nigerians will unfortunately die avoidable deaths.

3. Pressures would be mounted on the government from different pressure groups, concerned prominent Nigerians and even from the international community.

4. The government would wake up from her slumber and get ready to act.

5. Ministers of health and labour would be shamefully removed from office and possibly prosecuted.

6. Unbiased persons would be appointed to replace the sacked ministers

7. JOHESU's demands would be sufficiently met

8. There will be a total overhaul of the healthcare system. Position of CMD would be proscribed and replaced by CEOs who are not medical doctors but seasoned and unbiased managers just like it is done in the UK. We'll have medical directors (physician) Pharmaceutical directors (pharmacist), directors of nursing services (nurses), directors of laboratory services (lab scientists) etc, all of these directors would enjoy equal rights and privileges and answerable to the CEO.

9. NMA would either go and die or go on strike. If they choose the former, better for them, but if they choose the later, the CEOs would place adverts immediately and employ better qualified med doctors from within and outside Nigeria to replace them. You will amazed as to how quickly they are replaced.

The above scenarios would play out if the strike lingers. Mark my words!

You think you are the only one in private practice Just pray that PSN does not stop drug supply to your private clinics. That is another event that would occur if NMA arrogantly continues to obstruct the course of justice in resolving the JOHESU strike. Then, you will use your poo to treat patients. I know you will doubt the possibility, but it will happen to your amazement. You can't win the majority my friend!

This dwarf sef...

The ministers of health and labour need to be sacked as soon as possible. They cannot be judges in their own case.

Enough of the modern day enslavement!!!

All lovers of equity and fairness in Nigeria should join hands with JOHESU to prevail on the federal government to grant JOHESU's demands.

Time to act is now!!!

Freddonance:
Some people always spew nonsense thinking they are making sense.. Be ready, keep fighting them. funny enough, those doctors will not come to ur pharmacy to implore you to treat them but u will always meet them to treat u, by that time u will know who is & should be respected. ganging up against a particular group isn't an assurance of victory but a hope of the timid.

Instead of thinking of how to create peaceful environment conducive enough for everyone in the hospital u are here wallowing in self pity.

Doctors are not the problem of the health sector. JOHESU isn't either. the problem of the health sector is greed borned of out of hatred for doctors.

I don't see medical doctors! Instead, they look for me whenever they need drugs. Even my siblings get the best of healthcare from me whenever they are sick. Take note!

Medical doctors are the architect of the professional rivalry in the healthcare system. It's only in Nigeria that a doctor would want to open a pharmacy without employing a superintendent pharmacist, they would train quacks as nurses and call them "auxiliary", they would employ a science lab technologist as medical lab scientist. At the end of the day, they would send many innocent nigerians to their early graves. So, my friend, if you want peace to reign in the health sector, stop usurping other people's roles.

So, it actually pains you when the heat is directed at you.
Stop giving others what you cannot take if you really desire peace. Otherwise, prepare to have a dose of your own medicine.

Hairyrapunzel:
It is self medication. Catarrh and cough are symptoms to so many diseases. You target the specific disease not the symptoms. Continue bad practice.
It's only in Nigeria you say you make referrals to a physician because you wanna make money. A physician sees a patient and makes a diagnosis, writes out a treatment plan. If it involves getting drugs he will send them to the pharmacy. Stop quackery. That's how you will give people antibiotics for cough and catarrh at the end of the day they come down with pneumonia what would have been effectively dealt with if they have seen a physician.
Want to form physician when you don't know jack because you sell drugs.
Yes it is self medication when you go buy drugs on your own in pharmacies because a physician didn't check you and order you to buy any drug. Stop propagating falsehood.

You will soon commit suicide from the way you are going over this issues. But in case you need a drug to facilitate the suicide, just send me a pm. I can help you with 10 tablets of digoxin.

Pharmacists are trained on the pathology of common ailments and so they can make diagnosis of those and recommend drugs appropriately. go and check the prospectus of any pharmacy school you know. Check what they study in clinical pharmacy from 400level to graduation. Some go as far as taking masters degree in public health.

They also work with medical laboratory scientists for better diagnosis.

Hey! my doctor friend, don't get yourself worked up! Study hard and specialize, we'll always refer patients to you when the need arises.

If you don't listen to the above advice, then come and get the digoxin and do the needful with it.

phaamsaam:
The way we are going about this, our patients would bear the brunt, it's a pity because of our environment, our laws, even our regulatory bodies have contributed one way or another to these brouhaha... Health care should be seen as a collaborative effort, it's a pity doctors are fighting Pharmacists, Nurses, MED LAB scientists and vice versa... Wish the younger generation stops all these fightings, position juggling, hatred and work together to build a better Health system in Nigeria for Nigerians. Thanks.. Pharm Sam

Honestly, I hope they stop the unnecessary fights. But if they fail to stop, then they should be ready to start receiving a dose of their own medicine from other professionals in the healthcare team.

I think unlike those of us in Pharmacy who are taught to respect other healthcare professionals, Nigerian medical doctors obviously do not have such training. Rather they are trained to be disrespectful to others. Over the years, pharmacists have been keeping quiet and taking all their rubbish. That our quietude has been misconstrued for cowardice by the physicians, hence we have got to fight now!

All we are saying is that all healthcare professionals should be allowed to grow and not suppressed by the medical doctors. That is why JOHESU is on strike.

Let the strike continue until government does the right thing!

As a matter of urgency, the minister of labour and productivity Dr Chris Ngige needs to be sacked and replaced by a competent hand. This is because he has shown himself to be biased in favour of the NMA of which he is a member.

Sack Ngige now!!! And return sanity to our healthcare institutions.


Ngige must go !!!!

Sack the dwarf and appoint and unbiased person to replace him.

presentley:
What I don't understand is why healthcare practitioners classify going to a qualified pharmacist for prescription as self medication. So I have cough and cattarh now I should go to the hospital and get charged additional bill as consultation? Nehi

Going to a Pharmacist for your cold and catarrh is not self medication. Pharmacists are trained enough to handle such ailments and make referrals to a physician if need be. The issue is, do you go to pharmacy to get the drugs or to a patent medicine store Again, when you go to a pharmacy, do you insist on seeing a pharmacist If you get your drugs from pharmacists in pharmacies, you would get expert prescriptions and counseling better than what you get when you go to some clinics, and that cannot be described as self medication.

Always insist on seeing a pharmacist when you go to buy drugs.

TempoJames:
I appluad this. There would be no issue if that heirachy is maintained. Sure a medlab scientist knows more than a microbiologist so as a doctor knows more than a medlab scientist. But you guys don't want to maintain that fact. So if there should be a change then the system should be reversed totally. Let the novice be the head! Let the microbiologist and SlT head the laboratory!

The problem here is that you seem not to understand your area of competence as a medical doctor. Your area of competence as a med doctor is definitely not in the medical laboratory! So, why claiming that you know more than a med lab scientist
Your bringing in BSc microbiology graduates into this argument simply betrayed your acclaimed knowledge of the medical laboratory. Ain't you people ashamed of exposing your ignorance in public

TempoJames:
You guys haven't seen anything yet. The same way you guys oppress the microbiologists and SLTs Doctors will keep on being on top of your heads.
Retards!
You ask for liberation when you guys are chief oppressors.
If so then microbiologists(B.sc) should be head of microbiology department and head you guys so that we know job description is perfectly defined. Nonsense!

B.Sc microbiology graduates are not trained to work in the medical laboratory setting. There are ethical issues involved when you talk about microbiology as a science and microbiology in the medical laboratory. A medical lab scientist who specializes in medical microbiology understands the ethical concerns in the medical laboratory as it relates to hospitals or clinics and is better qualified to work there.

B.Sc microbiology graduates should have nothing to do in the medical labs! They are trained to research and teach microbiology in universities and research institutions after studying up to msc and phd levels.
This applies also to pharmacology, biochemistry and other biological science graduates.
I think prospective students of these courses should be well informed about what they are being trained for while in school so that they can proceed with msc and phd after service and not start wasting time in search of unavailable jobs.

aribisala0:
Orders?
They are not in the Army.

Usually they have a discussion and if they fail to agree there are procedures to follow .
In many countries there are published guidelines on how to treat many conditions. These are not secret anyone can access them. A hospital may choose to have its own formulary meaning e.g they will only stock drug A even though B and C are recognized alternatives.

In such a scenario the doctor falls in line and if she wants to use drug B must apply to a committee on which pharmacists ,doctor, and non-clinicians sit.

I borrowed that word "order" from our nairaland medical doctors and students. I'm aware that you don't actually order a professional on what to do, rather you seek his/her expert opinion by presenting a case for him to scrutinize and act on, while irregularities are discussed between the two before actions are taken.

But our nairaland online medical doctors and students are the ones who think that they have the rights to "order" healthcare professionals who are not physicians.

That sentiment that more doctors are leaving the country is what NMA and their cohorts employ when they want to achieve their selfish ends. They shouldn't be taken seriously!!!

For every medical doctor that leaves Nigeria, we have 50 more who are begging to be employed by government hospitals.

Somebody should remind them that they are not the only ones leaving the country for greener pastures. Engineers, Lawyers,teachers, Nurses, Pharmacists, etc are also leaving! Are medical doctors the only people affected by the harsh economy in Nigeria

bpalace:
Oya, no worry come be dispensing drug till u reach director and boom ... U will still make ur cash though

There's going to be a holistic reform of the healthcare delivery system in Nigeria. Pharmacists will no longer be restricted to drug dispensary alone, but would be involved in ward rounds to check how drugs are administered, adverse drug reactions, drug errors, drug-drug interaction, foods being consumed by patients and their possible effects on the drugs they are taking, patients counseling etc. At the end of the day, the patient would benefit maximally from drug therapy. Nigerians will stop dying from doctors' prescription errors and other drug-related deaths. Do I need to inform you that this would greatly improve life span and the general perception of our healthcare system in the international arena

Brace yourself for the change that is coming! The earlier you learnt how to work in a team the better for you.

bpalace:
Oya, no worry come be dispensing drug till u reach director and boom ... U will still make ur cash though

There's going to be a holistic reform of the healthcare delivery system in Nigeria. Pharmacists will no longer be restricted to drug dispensary, but would be involved in ward rounds to check how drugs are administered, adverse drug reactions, drug errors, drug-drug interaction, foods being consumed by patients and their possible effects on the drugs they are taking, patients counseling etc. At the end of the day, the patient would benefit maximally from drug therapy. Nigerians will stop dying from doctors' prescription errors and other drug-related deaths. Do I need to inform you that this would greatly improve life span and the general perception of our healthcare system in the international arena

micflo28:
If Biafra will ever be granted, imo indigenes will be the brain power of the nation. Imo amaka

Your post above is the reason why Biafra will NEVER come.

I used to support Biafra until I encountered your type during my IT. I knew from there that Biafra actualization will further pit the different Igbo states against one another.

One Nigeria forever!!!

jaychubi:
Consultant gini

In hospital only a doctor should be a consultant doesn't make sense for other health care workers.

We go soon get consultant cleaner nonsense, NMA should stop this B4 it's too late

Consultant pharmacist cant take order from doctors ooo n with dt there will be choas in d hospital

A pharmacist can't take orders from physicians on drug related matters rather a physician should take orders from pharmacists on ISSUES RELATING TO DRUS AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. That's international best practices!

Hairyrapunzel:
Na by forcing yourself to do pathology for two years? You still do not know jack about diseases. Illiterate. What's in pathology that's making you feel like a superstar? Pathology that people who ain't pathologists (quacks and illiterates) taught you and you are feeling fly Be fighting for power to prescribe nothing you know about. Pathological diagnosis you no know, clinical diagnosis you still don't know jack about making it, treatment plan: nothing is still in your head.
Murderer.

Quacks and illiterates teaching you pathology and you are feeling fly. Illiterate. Your mates are doing great things in other countries like thinking of developing drugs for rare diseases, dispensing only prescribed drugs (apart from OTC's), doing research, nd you are here dreaming of prescribing drugs for diseases you know nothing about. Telling me that you studied pathology to prove that you can do what a medical doctor can do is the most stupid thing I have heard. People fail out from medicine in pathology class and still don't know jack about diseases.

Practicing quackery kills people. Stop it now or one day you will end up in jail.

Kid, go and read for your JAMB!!!

I won't join issue with you again because it's obvious you are a kid!

Hairyrapunzel:
Prescribing for a disease you know nothing about. I drlliterate. You will not face your work. Be killing people up and down because you claim to know what medical doctor knows. Diagnosis you can't even make. Olodo. In developed countries you won't make noise. You will even be arrested before you finish your statement. No be only Prescribing pharmacist. Your mates are thinking of how dey will manufacture drugs to cure cancer and you are here dreaming of prescribing drugs to diseases you know nothing about and management plan. Murderer.

Kid, have you ever been to pharmacy school Do you know that pharmacy students study the pathology of diseases from 400 level till graduation The Pharm.D graduates then spend extra year studying pathology of diseases.
Stop exposing your ignorance on public forum nau! Have you no shame

[quote author=AmericanSons post=67496705][/quote]Bro, infidelity happens all over the world. Besides, there are still many good marriages around.

Btw, are you the Ben she was referring to??

God bless Lagos state!
God bless Ambode!!
God bless Nigeria!!!

God bless Dr Goodluck Ebele Jonathan for this project.