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� KJVStrongs

In the century before Darby, Daniel Whitby pushed the philosophy of postmillennialism in England. "This interpretation maintains that present gospel agencies will root out evils until Christ

what of the bible accounts? was it Darby that put them there?

1Th 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Enigma:

Arijẹ ni madaru ẹ jẹ lọ j'awọ! 

2samuel 2:26

Sheathe your sword.

Of course it's biblical to sow into your pastors life and into one another's life.

This is a beautiful topic. That's what is called WOF! The word of faith.

Proverbs 11:11
11 By the blessing of the upright the city is exalted:but it is overthrown by the mouth of the wicked.

The gospel is about the life of God in man ,which brings prosperity ,spirit soul and body.

John 10:10
. . . I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Luke 4:18
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

aletheia:
^, why needs you go outside the bible to another man's conjecture and thoughts?
.

Stop your hypocricy. At least I gave you a source. Haven't you quoted other sources before? . This is a simple common sense .

Why don't you tell us how on earth the ethiopean eunuch got the book of Isaiah. Are you afraid? . You're navigating. ( I hope my spelling is correct).

on the other hand let me "answer a fool according to his foolishness"

Q: How did the eunuch get a copy of Isaiah when scrolls were kept in the Temple?

A: To be in charge of the queen’s treasury meant that he was a man of wealth, as well as a man of great authority, so although scrolls were scarce, it was possible to purchase one at considerable[b] cost. [/b]For the common man, scrolls were available only in the synagogue,

You can start your research from here.

http://www.finaltrump.com/2010/01/acts-chapter-8-saul-philip-and-the-ethiopian-eunuch/

^^^
Let's give you a big hand! Clap clap!

I once did a study on this verse ,and I didn't like the outcome. The witchcraft came out to be medicine ! . I left it for another day when I will have more time to dig deeper.

davidylan:
Why did you DISHONESTLY leave out the rest of prov 23:23? Buy the truth, and do not sell it, Also wisdom and instruction and understanding.

What did I leave out? Read my post again. You're the one acting dishonest. I quoted the whole verse.

1. how did you know he bought it? Proof pls?  

I don tell my own, You tell us where He would have gotten it.

That Paul and timothy were scholars who had their own libraries.

Where did they get the books they studied , if someone had not produced them for circulation?

Christ wasnt going around asking for the motives of those selling in the temple. He drove them ALL out.

Books are not sold inside church hall , they are sold outside the hall ,at the gate or church bookshop

You certainly have either a very poor understanding of the scriptures or you are a crafty, deceitful individual twisting scripture to force-fit your pecuniary desires

Thank you . I know you won't sleep until you abuse .

aletheia:
Which bible verse shows the eunuch bought the scrolls he was reading?

Sorry He didn't buy the scroll , he plucked it from the tree. Or stole it from the temple!

aletheia:
^If not anything. . .you are a consistent liar?

Mark 8:33
. . . Get thee behind me, Satan: . . .

Mopoli:
I find it very difficult to comprehend why Churches contemporary that is meant to be a holy place of worship or sanctuary has now been turned RUSHING HOUR BIZ CENTRES. For example:churches selling G.o books,messages on vcd or dvd,magazines,stickers,miracles aprons,handkerchiefs,church polo,church special prayer recharge card(at minimum of N500) church hand bags,etc etc right inside the church with an additional prices, cajoring their members to buy them in disguise of maximum blessing and miracles. I have experienced these on many occassion i don't know about you? What exactly is christendom turning into? Irrespective of Jesus oppositional actions in John2:15,Matt21:12

I don't see anything wrong in selling and buying books and tapes . We should rather give God thanks for such inventions. If a man labour to acquire knowledge and he could take time to put his life study in a document for us to learn from thats commendable. Some people have died with the knowledge they had.

People paid to have books in bible days. Duplicates of book were made by scribes.

Proverbs 23:23
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not;also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.



How Did Ethiopian eunuch get the copy of book of isaiah which  he was traveling with when Philip met him ? He bought it. Paul had collections of books too.

2 Timothy 4:13
13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

Nothing s wrong if a church sell things. It depends on purpose and motives. Some people give things that can not be used and they have to be sold. Jesus definitely sold some stuff.If not,his desciples  would not have asked for the perfume to be sold.

Mark 14:5
5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.

Remeber jesus also had once counselled a man to sell his belonging and use for the poor.

Matthew 19:21
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

New testament dwarf? Could it be Zacchaeus ?

diluminati:
Joeagbaje is noticeably invisible again. I expected that from him.

Ive been waiting for you , youve not responded to my last post. Or do we discuss offline? My email is below

Dwarfs and witches exit in every generation and culture

Leviticus 21:20
20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

Exodus 22:18
18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

diluminati:
well i hate categorizing myself under any fold. i'm a mixture of different things but whole in one. so i cant answer your question the way you want it.

well aletheia post suggests you were once a christian . Thats what Meant. I'm not asking what religion you are of at the moment.

First you say christianity is not a religion but a way of life and then you are asking me if i'm religious?

I didn't ask if you are religious. Why do you find it hard to understand me.

sometimes i dont just get you.

That's what I'm saying

thats why i choose goshen over you because he's clear as the breeze and doesnt complicate matters like you.

Remember some time back when you were creating usernames just to bump up your posts. who would expect that from a pastor and a christian? who could trust you?

I didn't create user names pls. I dont know that guy .What are the names by the way?

^^^^
I meant personal choice not church

cautious:
Well, now that you agree Paul had a pattern of making his hands provide for his needs depite being a 'full time minister', is he a good enough eample for present day ministers who "sacrificially" give up "lucrative jobs" to earn more decent income in 'full time ministry'?

The fact remains that it was Paul's personal choice and not a biblical rule or principle.  The principle is clear about welfare of full time ministers. Jesus himself layed the rules. Paul didn't deny the principle . He acknowledge the principle .but he chose to do otherwise for his personal reason

Well You're right for once

Pastor Kun:
@Joagbaje
"Paul was a full time minister" yet the bible records on several occasions that he was working to support himself. So going by your using the example of Paul, other full time ministers should exemplify him and also work to support themselves.

Paul only worked in Corinth because of the carnality of the Corinthians ,they were stingy. So ,paul didnt want them to call him names due to their carnal minds. He supported himself while he was with them he also recieved money from other churches.

He also made his action clear to them. He made them know he was aware of his rights as a minister to recieve money from them like other apostles. Who were also on full time .

1 Corinthians 9:4-9
4 Have we not the right to our food and drink [at the expense of the churches]?
5 Have we not the right also to take along with us a Christian sister as wife, as do the other apostles and the Lords brothers and Cephas (Peter)?
6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from doing manual labor for a livelihood [in order to go about the work of the ministry]?
7 [Consider this:] What soldier at any time serves at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat any of the fruit of it? Who tends a flock and does not partake of the milk of the flock?
8 Do I say this only on human authority and as a man reasons? Does not the Law endorse the same principle?
9 For in the Law of Moses it is written, You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the corn. Is it [only] for oxen that God cares?

The point is. Ministers who are called to lay ministry ,doing business and jobs should go ahead , and those who are not allowed to do any other thing should not be condemned.

Some people have resigned lucrative jobs to go full time ministry. It's not laziness it's sacrifice. Some have family turned agsinst them , some even experience wives divorcing them.

stepo707:
@ Joagbaje Who told you paul the apostle wasn't maried? Or just because the bible didn't say it explicitly now means he wasn't married?

It was stated in the bible .

1 Corinthians 9:5
5 We each have the right to marry one of the Lord's followers and to take her along with us, just as the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Peter do.

1 Corinthians 7:7
7 I wish everyone could get along without marrying, just as I do. But we are not all the same. God gives some the gift of a husband or wife, and others he gives the gift of being able to stay happily unmarried.

Sorry to hurt your feelings bro, but Paul the apostle was once a married man.

You are not hurting my feeling .i know Some of you seem to be out just to oppose anything joagbaje says . Why not just study. . . .and study . .and dwell on truth instead of opposing Jo.

cautious:
There are missionaries and itinerant ministers who cannot realistically retain their day jobs. This category of ministers have a right to financial support from the church. That right is what Paul chose to let go when he decided to labour with his hands. But there is another category of ministers who have not been called into the mission field.

What do you mean by mission field?

They choose to do what they term 'full-time ministry' and devise a salary structure for themselves. This has no basis in scripture,

Let's get something straight. If you are criticizing Mr "A" or pastor "A " for his action . We can understand  based on how much you know of him. But if you criticize a principle,or structure or institution just because of Mr "A " something else. You don't give a blanket condemnation because of some individual.

If a particular man goes into full time ministry for a selfish reason , does that make everybody in full time ministry like him.? But that's not the case here. Goshen is saying that every minister who works full time is lazy.

. I have functioned as an assistant pastor before without giving up my day job. The ministry didn't suffer attention but I didn't have to take any stipend or wage from the church, neither did my pastor or other ministers in church. We all retained our day jobs and did what the Lord would have us do in church without expecting to be paid.

That is LAY MINISTRY.  Not full time .

Were we 'full time ministers'? Yes.

No ,you're lay minister. Full time ministry is a calling. Aquilla and Priscilla were lay ministers.  Paul was full time minister. Other apostles were full time ministers .

When you're into full time , you wont hav time or any other thing because mthe ministry work will o much demand your time. Do you know what it means to devote time to fasting and praying . Can a banker  go on 7 days fast ? Will he concentrate in the bank. What you guys should do is to find out he work of a full time minister.

aletheia:
And what would this exercise achieve?. . .You are no longer a Christian, .

Illuminati, we're you once a christian?. Pls respond.

BTW: rather compare their posts to the Bible;

Great point.

goshen360:
Now you see where and how you are caught in your own words by your head knowledge of the word of God. Kindly answer the question. You made a comment and deleted it, while you are trynna do that, freshcvv quoted you.

It's my choice ,I didn't read the other comment before posting. When I saw the other comment ,i felt there was no need. So I deleted. Do you have problem with that ?

That shows you are not pure delivering the word of God.

Very funny , just because I deleted my post . I still stand by the words I posted . Ok let's go let me repost .

. . . Either fixed wages or daily stipends it doesn't make a difference . If you put all together it still amount to something  either monthly or weekly. It's not the name it's called that counts  ,wages ,alowance , wrlfare ,support, But the principle If its biblical or not.

I rather you completely change your mind about all your head knowledge and poisonous teachings you are spreading.

don't insult me. Deal with the topic. Mr holy broda.

I love you still.

Wish you  understand what love is. 

Your argument is baseless. Goshen . Isnt it obvious to you. Why playing on semantics. Snowwy and debosky had given you enough clarification. I know you may be too proud to admit my point. But you know you're caught in a web.

Zikkyy:
. We are also aware that the Levitical priesthood needed to be scrapped for Jesus priesthood to take effect.

There's is no Jesus order of priesthood. He functions in the order of Melchizedek

Let me add that Jesus did not take up any priesthood from Melchi.

Will you nullify the word of God. Before the law there was Melchizedek order. When the law came ,there was levitical order for a period. Many high priest functioned under the order of levitical priest hood. Now that it has ended we are back to Melchizedek order In which Jesus function. that means the Order never ended. It has always been . The levitical was only an intrusion. This is the real order.

I changed my mind about posting it

@Goshen

goshen360:
@ Joagbaje,

I will not attempt to answer your stuffs. You are always found of hiding under the verse of judge not when the truth reveals your intentions. Jesus and the Apostles you talked about that didn't go back to their vocation, did they receive salary? It is very clear from scriptures that even with them doing only the gospel, they didn't get salary from people. Please stop hiding under some set of scriptures that suits you to justify your love for money. Godliness with contentment is a great gain.

You're the one hiding here. You said every minister must work . And a minister who has no outside job is lazy. Youdaid there is nothing like full time minister. Isn't it so?

^^
The thing being pointed to you is that Pail didn't make a law out of what he did , you are the one making a law out of what paul did, his sacrifice was based on his faith . That doesn't mean it was the best descision he himself. Acknowledged that he had right like other apostles like Peter but he just chose to labour for a specific reason.

@Goshen

goshen360:
The problem of indoctrination in the church today to justify all the bible verses of Apostle Paul to mean salary is that, the Apostles of early church had their vocation and still preached the gospel rigorously.

Every Jewish boy learns a skill.Paul learned tent making  Jesus trained as carpenter. Peter was gusher man. did Peter go back to fishing? Did Jesus go back to carpentry?

Apostle Paul combined his tent making trade with Apostolic assignment. Peter and others didn't return to their fishing business as main source of their income, however there is not record that they received regular salaries from the church. Today, we have lazy men that don't want to work rather than depend on church salary, hence they carve out baseless teachings to support their salary earnings.

Why do you make your own law and insult Gods servants? Ministry is of the holyghost . Every minister follow Gods direction for their ministry . Why will you judge others for what you know little of ?

Every Pastor should get a job or run a business.

Which job was Jesus doing ? Which job was Peter doing? Even Jesus had to rebuke him when he tried to go fishing .

The point is this, those who have been called into lay ministry should focus on laity , those who have been called into full time shoukd devote their attention full time.

Pastors have created a salary system simply because they made clergy a job and professionalize it giving it terms such as "full time". Jesus preached full time but never received salary but support. Every child of God of God is a full time minster, God didn't call us into part time service or fellowship.

Luke was a lay minister ,a practicing doctor . Priscilla and Aquila were pastors and tent makers . They were lay ministers.

Support preachers and pastors? scripturally YES. Pay preachers and pastors salary? Biblically, NO. We do not have such example from Christ or from the Apostles.

It's just semantics , the principle is thesame. You're saying two things . "They  must work in the labour market" "it's wrong to be paid" who made that law ?

What do you say of these?

1 Timothy 5:17-21
7 Elders with a gift of leadership should be considered worthy of respect, and of adequate [size=15pt]salary[/size], particularly if they work hard at their preaching and teaching. Remember the scriptural principle: 'You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads the grain', and 'The labourer is worthy of his wages'.

A man in full time ministry is called into it. Just like the apostles. The Orkney requires a devotion that labour market will be a distraction.  Such has to study , intercede, fasting, just to mention few. . 24hr of the day seem too short for such people because of the load of work.

The apostles needed so much focus that they could not even attend to some matters they had to get deacons .why? For one reason.

Acts 6:4
4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.


According to you a full time minister is a lazy man, why do you judge what you know little about?

Romans 14:10
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

goshen360:
^^^
. Apostle Paul also told you to follow his example, do you see that? Where am i wrong?

What paul did in Corinth ,labouring with his hand instead of collecting money and support. Did he do it in other churches? Have you realised he only did it under a specific circumstance.? Did he make his actiona law for the body?
So why do you now criticise other ministers on that account?