₦airaland Forum

frosbel2:
Every Sunday the thieves think of what scripture they will twist to their own destruction and extract money from the hard working and even jobless suffering members of their congregation , including students. If this is not a CRIME what else is, is this not extortion , no ?? They are cursed and no for good rogues that must be dealt with asap.

People for how long will you allow yourself be a hypnotized member of the churches of these miscreants, why not completely abandon them so that their source of their income will dry up , and they will eat Nebuchadnezzar's grass of humility .

You're wrong sir. Pastoring is a responsibility done voluntarily . Before you're sent out to pastor you must first have a very good paying job, or business from which you give to build the works . It's only if the ministry deem it fit to withdraw such a one from other vocation by the reason of more responsibility which requires full time job that such a one may not be allowed to do other job and such a person will be supported by salary or allowance .

Since when did preaching become a career or source of salary/income ??

If a man is made to le leave his job to be devoted to full time ministry then he deserves to be paid according to scriptures

Galatians 6:6
Those who are taught the Word of God should help their teachers by paying them.

End of rant.

Yeah rant indeed

truthmans2012:
Sure ?

Are you saying there are no Israeli citizens who are muslims ?

To be a jew is a religion on its own

There's no Jewish Muslim

@op What's the name of his church . lets verify if the story is true

What is corruption? If you define it and narrow it down you will see that churches preaches against it . They may not use the language CORRUPTION .

Praktikals:
I offered my 'widow's mite'.

I know sir. But there were complications, hence, the need for extra money. You won't believe that the mother and the new baby were 'detained' in the hospital for 8 days and all the pastor could offer was prayers.

The question is does the pastor have the money? Some time a pastor is overwhelmed with bills to pay. Sometimes what comes in as offerings and tithes are not even enough to meet the need of the church running. Especially when the church is still small. I'm aware of pastors who use their salaries to pay church rent . Especially where they do secular jobs. If a pastor has money and refused to help . It's still between him and God. But what I know . Churches have house fellowship or cells . That's the primary place where issues of needs are addressed . If the matter goes beyond their ability the leader may get the pastors attention to it. Sometimes money is raised in church for such a one.

It's not proper for people who wouldn't work to be going to church for money and using early church as example . The early church had persecution for a period which hindered some from doing business . But it soon ended . The church did not condone laziness .

2 Thessalonians 3:10
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Every church I believe has their welfare plan for the less privilege . But able body men should not be going to ask pastor for transportation .they should work

Praktikals:
My friend's wife put to bed and he needed money to augment the one he had to be able to settle the hospital bills. I advised him to approach his pastor,

You said he's your friend ,but you didn't help him. now you blame the pastor .


[ quote] but the man only offered prayers for God's intervention. My question is what do pastors do with all the tithes and offerings they collect every sunday?[/quote]Every church has structure on how money is disbursed . Even the early church. You don't go to church to be collecting money. A man is supposed to provide for his family . It's not church duty to pay house rent and other bills. Every man should work to provide for his family

1 Timothy 5:8
8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
.

How ever the church do help those who are in genuine need who cannot afford to work . Like widows . Not even every widow but old widows who have no relative to help .its all in the bible .

1 Timothy 5:16 (TLB)
16 Let me remind you again that a widow's relatives must take care of her and not leave this to the church to do. Then the church can spend its money for the care of widows who are all alone and have nowhere else to turn.

Also some churches still has a structure of help by comtributing to certain people who are committed in church and have certain need . So the pastor didn't do wrong by praying for the man to have s miracle . Many have testified of miracles by such prayers . It's left to the pastor to give by his one discretion what he can from his pocket. Church money is not pastors money . Tithes and offerings is not pastors. Money .

Malachi 3:10 admonishes us to pay our tithe so that there ll be plenty of food in Gods house. I believe the purpose of the tithe is to care cater for the less privileged in the house of God. Or is there any where in the bible where it is stated that spending tithes and offerings is
an exclusive preserve of the pastors.

If you want to quote a scripture , kindly quote it the way it' is and not your interpretation

So the mentality of people going to ask church for money is wrong . You can share your problem with the church. The pastor can pray ,Counsell where necessary and help where necessary

you also say its not a sin because of its public appeal?

It's not the same . I'm not talking about public appeal . Ok but let me ask you ,if a christian does semen count test . Which is usually done by masstubation has he sinned against God? .

You said masturbation is demonic. How can something demonic not be a sin? Do you know what you're talking about?

It's a only a bad habit . And it can be demonic especially if the individual want to stop and cannot stop it. Just like smoking. It's a bad habit . There are several bad habit that are demonic but don't constitute a sin. I can post a video clip of a crusade where I was ministering to poeple who were bound by habits of strange appetite . Some eat raw meat ,some eat sand ,some ice blocks some smell fumes of fuel some chew

SoloTu:
Joe, you suppose dey israel now. Wetin dey happen?

I'm ,still in Israel, schedule is tight just have little time to post

I don't seem to get your question , of course not everyone in a crusade is a Christian. It's not even organized for Christians in the fist place . It's organised to reach out to the unconverted. So it's a mixed multitude

urahara:
Mutilation or maiming is an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body.

Courtesy. Wikipedia


Or also amputating.


I am the one who needs a good dictionary

OK you. Won . According to English dictionary. But I gave you the scripture that speak for the Bible use here . Jesus refered to it as to cut off.. but whatever other meanings the word has .still reefers to the body as being mutilated . The question still remains . Can mutilated body part ,cut off or wounded body part be restored through fake manipulation .can manipulation make body part grow or mend physically? To the glare of others .

.

-

Alfamann:
Satan is Great. The seed is planted. Your time is coming.

My experience was over twenty years ago. I only came out of it stronger . I have faith that HardMirror will come out of this stronger in God also. There's a call on his life .

wiegraf:
Erm, you still don't get it, though I can sort of understand. I won't be laughing with you, ever. Well, not unless you're somehow redeemed. Now that would be a story.

Before you make said thread, think on this

https://www.nairaland.com/908631/church-tells-hiv-patients-stop

And perhaps these, among the many others

https://www.nairaland.com/1892195/truth-behind-christ-embassy-healing/3

https://www.nairaland.com/599451/pastor-chris-oyakhilome-dont-excuse/3

And pliss, are you now claiming you've never told sheeple to stop paying for medication as it could affect their faith? Whilst at the same time singing virtues about paying tithes in order to keep their faith strong?

Ok, I lied. Now you've got me laughing

Laughing at your self I believe . It doesn't connect . Who did I kill ? Who did I collect money from?

urahara:
U need a good dictionary.

Response doesn't need to be harsh .

Maimed means to be wounded ; to lose function of a limb or body part

Check this out

Matthew 18:8
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

HardMirror:
I am sure he has countless experience of god failing. But let us not bring that ugly past to this thread. Let's hear what he has to say

Oh sure if that's what you call it. Actually was waiting for you to talk about what made you lose faith . I felt you got disappointed about the blind man who God didn't heal . And if that's the case I've had such experience. Early 90s ,I went on eve gelid with a team of friends to a village in EDO state . We've been told to lay hands on the sick and I saw a man who couldn't get up. I felt it was opportunity to demonstrate Gods power . I laid hands on him and commanded him to rise . He tried but felt pain and he didn't get brother to try again. He said I should leave him to lie down. I left Angry at God why couldn't he honor his name . I got so angry and said I will never preach again. But latter I grew out of it.

HardMirror:
Is the story true in the first place?

Matthew 15:30-31
30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, [maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:

31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

Maim refers to amputee

@ op . I await your response .

Alfamann:
Joe, I thought you quit nairaland when your scam was exposed last year?

Don't Derail thread . There was never a scam . Go read that thread again. If I don't post there must have been other reason . No bi me dey here?

HardMirror:
Absolutely
Anyway.
Is jesus not still alive? Is he not the same yesterday today and forever?
Can we put him to the test? Oh I forgot do not test the lord your god. Lol
It's hopeless christianity just has excuses to run away from every scrutiny.

We read in the bible about limbs growing out. I would really want to know by your theory that miracles are manipulation . Did Jesus manipulate limbs to grow ? Is it possible ?

wiegraf:
Don't know why you post this. I already said I'd let the op deal with your nonsense. Abi e pain u?
To be clear though, I don't exactly enjoy doing it. Again; do you have a conscience somewhere in there? Mine wouldn't let me associate with someone like you. Can you empathize with the situation at all? I do wonder if you feel normal emotions.
I mean, among all sorts of other silly follies, you literally lead people to their deaths. Yet you expect others to be nice to you just because you're polite? What is wrong with you?!
I don't care for your trained politeness, brah.
And what does the bolded mean, that you can do as you will and attribute to god's will?

Ok thanks , when you're ready . We can discuss on another thread . And you will tell us who I led to death . Who I collected money from.etc . And when you fail to provide such proof Then we shall have something to laugh about .

HardMirror:
Ok....
But what I know is the example I gave above does not give a different result from christ based healings. It is all about setting up the right conditions. And they both give the same frequency of results. What would have made christ based healings real would be to have 10 verified blind men get healed at once, get amputees growing back limbs after prayers etc. There are no miracles in any church or anywhere that is really beyond ordinary.

But christ had amputees grow their limbs . And some ministers had such experience as gift . Like William Marion graham . Can such miracle of limbs growing be manipulated . Eye balls grow out of socket?

HardMirror:
Hope you know he can only answer questions in certain ways here online. And hope you know his church. Don't expect honesty here.

Well if you know me . I don't discuss with mockers. Let truth prevail . But when matter start to get muddy I quit. Don't label dishonesty when I've not given reason for such l truth is truth. If you really believe you discovered a truth . Be kind enough to be open about it. I will rather demand honesty from you Than mockery on such sensitive issue of life

wiegraf:
So, it was written by many con men then? Thank you for pointing out the obvious

That asides, you may be in waaaaaaay deeper than the op, but I'll be oddly optimistic here and believe there is still hope for you. Can you honestly tell me your conscience doesn't eat away at you when you read threads like this

Pls kindly let me discuss with the op. Don't get personal with me. My conscience is towards God.

HardMirror:
They all have simple reasons why they work and has nothing to do with holy spirit or god or angels or whatever spiritual being.

In that case by what power were those miracles wroth. You acknowledged the miracles were real. So by what power? You used the name of Jesus i believe

wiegraf:
JoAgbaje, abeg, have you read this?

Deep, deep, inside you somewhere, is there anything like a conscience left?

Prove to me there is a god!

Of course there's a God and you know it. Firstly the bible is a book of prophecy. It contains prophecies which came to pass in the bible days. Such as the rise of Babylon and other world empires even to the last one were accurately predicted in Daniel and they came to pass. So the bible was not written by one con man .The Jesus was to come was given accurately hundred of years before his birth . It contains prophecies being fulfilled . And future prophecies . The bible talks about one world government . . . . Do many many to quote .

@op , I had wanted to make post for 3 days but was denied by the site. No one can judge you because you spoke from the depth of your heart . You said mind blowing things which got my attention . And this is the matter . Few years ago pastor chris asked a question about personal conviction of christ and he said "what if all the great men of God you believe in come out together and say " we have discovered we have been deceived ,the bible is a book of fairy .there is nothing like heaven or hell.etc . He asked what will you do? He was addressing the idea of personal knowledge based on conviction and relationship with christ. I felt that question was for babies hand I felt very secure because I have seen miracles , I have cast out Devils . I know Jesus for myself. But here we are . Reading from someone who has done all these , heal sick ,wroth miracles, operated in gifts and more Then who is secured ?

I will appreciate if you can explain few things to me . Because this is of great concern . Now you said in your posts that the miracles were real. If there's no God ,then by what means we're those prophecies and words of knowledge coming ?

It will be very profitable for us viewers if you can paste the Bible quotes of your references up for us to. Read here. I'm tired of turning bible to. And fro following your. Discussion