₦airaland Forum

CANTICLES:
Trinitarians bliv there ar three distinct persons

1) God the father 1st person and God.

2) "God the son" ( this phrase never appear in the scripture) . 2nd person and God

3) "God the holyspirit" ( this phrase never appear in the scripture) 3rd person and God !

Why do the three persons of God have to be numbered, and in a particular order?
if you want to number them, then make Jesus Christ number three, because the Word of God was born Jesus Christ only 2000 years ago.

FROM the above list ... We have 3 distinct persons, whom are God , Thus 3 Gods !!

That is your belief.

Oh... Trinitarians quickly cover it with the last phrase " they are not three But One" !!

I say God is One, because the Bible says God is One.

You don't understand or accept how God can be three persons and One God,
and you cannot understand or accept it without the Holy Spirit.

That last phrase is the main focus of this thread .
Trinitarians Should Answer This:


:::: If the trinity doctrine is true and the 3 are one , [size=25] what happen to the Father and holyspirit when the son died for three days ?? If the 3 are truly one, why didnt the father and holyspirit also dead ? [/size]

The Son died for three days, why would the Father and the Holy Spirit have to die?
The flesh Jesus died, God's Spirit cannot die.
One of the purposes of Jesus death was to show the power of God's resurrection,
His body did not even begin to decay.

jcross19:
paul did not say jesus is the melchizedek but he was comparing them together okay . Read it yourself.

Why are you telling me that?

Abuaman: it IS their book that Paul was trying to misquote.

That's what I commented on.

The Word-Jesus, was with God before their was anything but God

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,...
Pro 8:22 Jehovah possessed me from the beginning



The Word was God, God is Eternal and not created

Joh 1:1 ...and the Word was God
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth;...

God bought forth the Word from Himself, off His own Spirit,
not created, but part of God himself who is Eternal,
and an exact likeness of Himself.

Col_1:15 who is the image of the invisible God,...

Heb_1:3 who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence,...

God and the Word being God are equal, as is the Holy Spirit
Php_2:6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,


2Co_4:4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them.

jw think that the Holy Spirit is just God's power,
jw think that they have God's power, and so they think they are powerful.
What is in them is not actually powerful but prideful, it shows in many of their postings.
It is from a spirit, not the Holy Spirit though.

Christians who have God's Holy Spirit are fortunate, they have a personal relationship with God.

Joh_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.
Joh_15:26 And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.

In those verses Jesus says He will ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit,
that is three persons.
Notice the Holy Spirit is not a thing, but He, is a person, whom I will send...

Also "the comforter" doesn't sound like a power or force, but a person.
Comforter is a personal attribute, as in person, as in God.

Appleyard:
Emmanuel-God with us!

Not Three God's with us!

Who has been talking about three god's?

**and God mad man in His (not their) Image.

God did make man in His Image,
God, is God and the Word.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.

You change scripture to your peril.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Pro 8:22 Jehovah possessed me from the beginning of His way, before His works of old.

Pro 8:30 even I was a workman at His side; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;

The Word is not just God's voice,
the Word is clearly a person who is God with God.
John 1:1 ...and the Word was God.

jw say "a god", but like you jw change God's scriptures.

Abuamam:
The jews strongly disagree with the op. They SHOULD know best, afterall it IS their book that Paul was trying to misquote.

http://www.donmeh-west.com/melchi.shtml

by Rabbi Yakov Hakohain.

Paul was converted by the Word of God Himself, on the Damascus Road.
He wouldn't try to misquote any scripture.

Appleyard: So, that is our God, coming from the water (the FLESH,) the dove descending (THE SPIRIT LIVING IN THAT FLESH,) and the voice (signifying the unlimited capability of that DEITY,) to manifest as it likes.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Those events are true, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the voice of the Father from Heaven together at the same time, but you don't believe that,
and you have those verses mean something else to suit your false beliefs.

You will have your reward.

Appleyard:
Hahahahhaahah! Oh, dear brothers of Little Faith and spiritual understanding!

cheesycheesycheesy!

rolleyes

So you don't know

Oh my! Here we go!

Wow! Do you get that?

Boom!

cheesycheesycheesy

hahhahaa..

Pls, dont hold your breath yet!

Hahahahaha glory glory glory hahhelluyah

..cheesycheesycheesy

..cheesycheesy

Oh my oh my!

You can't fathom His ability!

cheesycheesy

Wow you really know it all.
You are so wonderful........in your own eyes

BIBLESPEAKS:
As usual, you bring up another issue when you're stuck.

Not stuck on anything, but it is natural for jw to lie.

John 1:1 Never proves that jesus is God. Two persons are mentioned there - The word(jesus) and God(YHWH).

John 1:1 ...and the Word was God.

jw bible change that to "a god"
"theos" is the word that God comes from in the New Testament, but jw don't change it to "a god" in other places.

It is an evil thing to change God's inspired word.

Deu 4:2 You shall not add to the Word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, so that you may keep the commands of Jehovah your God which I command you.

Rev 22:18 For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.
Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.

I am sure God had jw as well as others in mind when He inspired Matthew to write:

Mat 15:7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 "This people draws near to Me with their mouth, and honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

BIBLESPEAKS:
You say my questions are weak?

Ànd you cnt even answer them properly. Did you see only God the father? What of the other persons? God the son and God the Holy spirit?

You must think if your exact wording is not in the bible then it is not true,
like I said your questions are weak.

Using your reasoning, is the wording "Michael is Jesus Christ" in the Bible?
I will answer for you, No it is not,
so then Michael is not Jesus Christ.

And he isn't by the way.

Appleyard:
The word 'God' is an object of worship, not a name of any person. God is a deity, and this deity is a Spirit, and Jesus is the Flesh of that God. That is why he said, he that have seen me have seen the father. In other words, HE IS THE FATHER,

Jesus is the Word of God not God the Father,
the Word was with God, two persons.
and the Word was God, One God.

How? Because, the Spirit which is the original nature of that deity called the Father, is dwelling in the spoken-word-Flesh created by Him for salvation. AND THE WORD OF GOD IS GOD HIMSELF, NOT ANOTHER SEPERATE GOD.

Not another separate God but another separate Person,
The Word of God became flesh, not God the Father became flesh.


Pro 8:22 Jehovah possessed me from the beginning of His way, before His works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.



Here is God and the Word (two persons) back in eternity before there was anything else but God:

Pro 8:22 Jehovah possessed me from the beginning of His way, before His works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was anointed from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth ever was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no springs heavy with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I was brought forth.
Pro 8:26 before He had made the earth, or the fields or the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He set a circle upon the face of the deep;
Pro 8:28 when He set the clouds above; when He made the strong fountains of the deep;
Pro 8:29 when He gave to the sea its limit that the waters should not pass His command; when He appointed the foundations of the earth;
Pro 8:30 even I was a workman at His side; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;

Stay calm and pray the Lord for understanding. See ya..

OH BOY!

BIBLESPEAKS:
Show me the expressions God the father, God the son and God the Holy spirit.

Waiting...

jw blindness is amazing,
The expression God the Father is written many times in the Bible.
The Son is shown to be God in John 1 and other, the Father even called Him God.
A spirit is a being whether heavenly or earthly, the Holy Spirit - being is powerful,
but not just a power, a power is not a being.
the Holy Spirit is God through common reasoning - sense,
also through scripture if you could see it.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The Hebrew word that God comes from is plural, which is understandable
as God, is God and the Word, and flows on well with God saying to the Word
"Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness" etc.
The Word who became Jesus Christ is the exact image of God.

Although this is addressing a comment from BIBLESPEAKS it's for others and not for unbelievers.

Appleyard:
Dead wrong!

Well show me what is dead wrong with my few words.

johnw74: Jesus prayed to the Father to send to believers another comforter,
that is three persons, Jesus, the Father and another comforter (the Holy Spirit).

The Father is God, Jesus (the Word) is the same God, the Holy Spirit is the same God.

You don't believe those scriptures?

But one thing you must understtand is that. THERE IS NEVER ANYWHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT THERE ARE THREE PERSONS MERGING TO BECOME ONE GOD. When you say this, you are making God A LIAR, and God can not Lie! Num.23vs19.

What rot you speak.

.

BIBLESPEAKS:
A large percentage of Trinitarians don't understand what is meant when the Bible says Jesus is God's word.

If I was a president for example, and I'm supposed to visit another country to strengthen ties. But for some reasons I couldnt make the trip but decided to send my minister of foreign affairs - Mr John. It follows that Mr John is my spokesman, he is my word.

It doesn't mean that Mr John and I are the same person.

Well you are right there,
God and the Word are two persons:
John1:1 ...and the word was with God...

Christ came to reveal the father to us. Christ is God's word. He is a different spirit person from his father. And as it follows: he's subject to his father.

You are wrong there,
God and the Word are both God, One God, One Spirit:
John 1:1 ...and the Word was God.

In John 1:1 God comes from the Greek (theos)
In John 1:1 God when referring to the Word is also (theos)

It is an evil thing to write another bible and change it to "a god"

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (logos), and the Word (logos) was with God (theos), and the Word was God (theos).
Clearly two persons, One God,
except to those who have been blinded for rejecting Truth.

BIBLESPEAKS:
Show me the expressions God the father, God the son and God the Holy spirit.

Waiting...

Joh_6:27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for that food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you. For God the Father sealed Him.
There are 13 instances of "God the Father" in the New Testament.

Show me the expression Michael the Word.

You don't reply to where you are shown wrong, and your questions are weak.

BIBLESPEAKS:
Its not about being a JW. Is there a scripture that calls jesus God the son? Do we have a scripture which is written "God the Holy spirit"?

If that passage of scripture exists - I'll become a trinitarian.

If what u're saying is true, then its going to be in the scriptures. God introduced himself to us through the scriptures, so the scriptures should be explicit in its explanation of 3 persons in one God.

Show me the expressions God the father, God the son and God the Holy spirit.

Waiting...

Reply to this first,
you said where does it say in those verses that it is referring to God the father.

johnw74: You are jw is why you cannot see it,
you don't know that Jesus Christ is God,
and you don't know that the Holy Spirit is God.

The voice from heaven saying this is my beloved Son,
is clearly God the Father.
And Jesus is clearly the Word, who is God,
John 1:1...and the Word was God.
that just leaves the Holy Spirit who I believe, know is God,
and not just God's power.
If you had God's Holy Spirit you would know it is He.

How can you not at least see God the Father in Mat 3:17?

And the same with John 14:16, "I" is Jesus Christ, the Word, God.
And again the Father is obviously God.
Another comforter is referring to the Holy Spirit.
Comforter is not an appropriate word for God's power, is it?
it's very personal, like as in a person, God even.

Barnabaseloka:
Guy easy o! I can feel the fire burning in your heart when you typed this in annoyance. Please forgive them for they know not what they do! Pray that their eyes will be opened to the truth.

Ha ha, no you've got me wrong,
no annoyance in that post.

BIBLESPEAKS:
I don't see how those verses you quoted shows a 3 person God except you throw a meaning into it. Where in those verses did it say God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

You are jw is why you cannot see it,
you don't know that Jesus Christ is God,
and you don't know that the Holy Spirit is God.

The voice from heaven saying this is my beloved Son,
is clearly God the Father.
And Jesus is clearly the Word, who is God,
John 1:1...and the Word was God.
that just leaves the Holy Spirit who I believe, know is God,
and not just God's power.
If you had God's Holy Spirit you would know it is He.

How can you not at least see God the Father in Mat 3:17?

And the same with John 14:16, "I" is Jesus Christ, the Word, God.
And again the Father is obviously God.
Another comforter is referring to the Holy Spirit.
Comforter is not an appropriate word for God's power, is it?
it's very personal, like as in a person, God even.

Barnabaseloka:
Help me ask them who do not believe in the Trinity. That there is one God does not not infer that there is only one personality with the name 'God.' This one personality as they assume must be a magician, in that he divided himself in order to live in heaven, with himself seated at his right-hand, and himself dwelling in man. They usually quote the OT and less of the books- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John- that substantially explained about Jesus and his Ministry. They get confused when they read the NT so they hold onto more of the OT and interprete it out of context. Anyone that wants to understand the Scriptures should leave theological ideas out of it and allow the Holy Spirit do the interpretation, so that it will not contradict other passages in the Scriptures.

Hi, I try not to push anything, I write about what the bible says,
and others can accept it or not.

Appleyard:
The church today has lost d revelation that the one God, Jehovah, expressed himself in the old testament as the ''Father,'' God above us', in d Gospels manifested as 'the Son', God with us', and in the book of Acts-unto this age as 'the Holy Spirit,God in us'. Not three persons but one glorious personage, as wonderfully unveiled in Hebrews 13.

Who is the one glorious personage
the Father God, the Word Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit?

Appleyard:
The church today has lost d revelation that the one God, Jehovah, expressed himself in the old testament as the ''Father,'' God above us', in d Gospels manifested as 'the Son', God with us', and in the book of Acts-unto this age as 'the Holy Spirit,God in us'. Not three persons but one glorious personage, as wonderfully unveiled in Hebrews 13.

One God not one person,
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, does not equal one person but three.

The below verse shows the three persons of God together at the same time.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Below, Jesus prays to the Father (two persons there) to give those the Holy Spirit (third person there).

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,

Appleyard:
Good!
Thank you for ur comments. Now, i will state my position and elaborate on what the biblical concept of the Godhead is all about. There is only one God who manifested in three different dispensations', and with multiple titles. The churches 'traditionally' believe 3 seperate or distinct persons in one God. This was as a result of d scriptural mentioning and deifying of d Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Consequently, the fourth century meeting of the Nicene council (as at when rome, through emperor constatine,was ruling the world) was to place them under d trinitarian definitions. This concept ,through d power of Roman Catholic, church swept throughout the christian faith and has become so embedded in christianity to d extent that to question its validity is immediate heresy.

The church today has lost d revelation that the one God, Jehovah, expressed himself in the old testament as the ''Father,'' God above us', in d Gospels manifested as 'the Son', God with us', and in the book of Acts-unto this age as 'the Holy Spirit,God in us'. Not three persons but one glorious personage, as wonderfully unveiled in Hebrews 13.

Now, my first take is that THE JEHOVAH OF THE OLD TESTAMENT IS THE SAME JESUS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.
Yes, God throughout d old testament did not have a body,but appear in different forms to d people, such as d 'burning bush' to Moses, the cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. God being a spirit (John 4vs24) hath, before d foundation of d world, foreseen d fall of man by d transgression of Adam and Eve, and He required a perfect atonement, a sacrificial lamb, to redeem man from his fallen state, by the shedding of 'blood' (Hebrews 922). It takes blood to pay the penalty for sin yet, no man, no angel, no priest or animal, was found worthy to redeem man. Therefore, God, since there is no saviour beside Him (isaiah 43vs11, 3. Isaiah 45vs22. Hosea 13vs4,) must then do it Himself, in order to show that He is the only 'redeemer'.

But then God knew He, as God, could not die and bleed in d Spirit, for a spirit has no flesh and bones. His own law required blood for an atonement, and for Him to fulfil his plan of salvation, He had to put on a veil of flesh, to taste death and pay d penalty for His own law to justify the ungodly. God started to make d promise dat He would come down to save and restore mankind back to him. In Isaiah 35 vs 3-6, he said,
''your God will come (to this earth) to save you (the jews and as many more that would thereafter believe in Him,) and the eyes of d blind will be open, the deaf will hear, the lame will walk,and d dumb shall speak'...
all these are to happen when this Jehovah God(been the only Saviour) 'wil' come.

Now, did this promise came to pass? Yes, it did because God never lies or fail in His promises. In John 1 vs 29, John (who never knew Jesus before but being guided by d spirit) testified by declaring Jesus as ''the lamb of God which taketh away d sins of d world''.. This mean that, by revelation, John knew who Jesus was and He subsequently baptized Him.
But it became interesting that this same John later in Mattew 11 vs 2, sent two of his desciples to ask Jesus, ''are u the One that is to come or are we to look for another?'.
Now why did John asked that conflicting and confusing question when he had already bare record of Him (Jesus) as stated in John1 vs 29?
Well, the reply Jesus gave unto john's desciples in verses 4 and 5 of d same mattew 11, answers any such thoughts, and clearly fulfilled the promise in Isaiah 35 vs 3-6, for 'the lame walked,the blind saw, the deaft heard...''

What this mean is that Jehovah actually came anf fulfilled His words and His plan of salvation as written in 1Timothy 3vs16.
When was God(Jehovah) manifested in the flesh? It was when Jesus Christ was born through a woman without any sexual act but it was God Himself making both hemoglobin egg cells in d wonb of mary, God Himself taking the nature of man. Jesus Christ was d flesh of God, none order than God Himself creating a body of His own. That Body was called 'the Son', while d Spirit which is d original nature of God indwelling the Body, was the 'Father'. Not two Gods now but God veiling Himself in FLESH. Thats the reason why Jesus was called 'Emmanuel' meaning 'God with us', God dwelling with men. When d Father decided to come down as our saviour, He put on a robe of flesh and planted Himself, as a seed, in d womb of mary. This seed was to produce d flesh and blood of the Body He would dwell in as the Son, Jesus Christ.
The name Jesus means 'Jehovah has become our saviour'.


To be continued....

You said the below post is wrong and I asked you to show me what is wrong there.
And you are not adressing that,
be truthful or you have nothing worth reading.

johnw74: You are right of course, we know the scriptures are true and don't deny them.
Jesus goes to His Father, God.
And verse 16 is just one other place in the Bible which shows the three persons of God.

Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The Words that I speak to you I do not speak of Myself, but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the very works themselves.
Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatever you may ask in My name, that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,

CheKesch:
They mocked him(&sounded just like u do now by saying the JW's told u the end is near some 36 years ago)

According to you, stating a fact - the truth, is mocking.

You will make a good jw.

CheKesch:
Bru...seriously, u need to dig deeper for a better argument than the above.

No, I don't need to do anything, my posts are not to try and change anyone,
they are to simply show the truth of scripture.
Some seek Truth and some seek their own, or some one else's way,
if you want to jump into the fire then go for it.

johnw74: Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come.

That is not talking about jw who for decades have been saying the kingdom is coming, and when it doesn't come they come up with a new date.
jw told me about 36 years ago that there were only a few holy ones left alive, they are very old and so the kingdom is coming very soon.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and kindred and tongue and people,

The preaching of the Gospel has been ongoing for 2000 years.
Rev 14:6 is probably the preaching of the Gospel before the end, that Jesus was speaking off

CheKesch:
the only religious people doing exactly what Christ said must occur before the end will come...

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come.

That is not talking about jw who for decades have been saying the kingdom is coming, and when it doesn't come they come up with a new date.
jw told me about 36 years ago that there were only a few holy ones left alive, they are very old and so the kingdom is coming very soon.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and kindred and tongue and people,

The preaching of the Gospel has been ongoing for 2000 years.
Rev 14:6 is probably the preaching of the Gospel before the end, that Jesus was speaking off.

BIBLESPEAKS:
...you will continue to wallow in your confusion of a 3 person God.

...ridiculously myopic.

Ha ha, my mind is very clear on the matter, but insult away in typical jw mode.
I know my Saviour Jesus Christ is God Himself (the Word) in the flesh, and not a created angel.

BIBLESPEAKS:
There has always been a one person Almighty God,

Without changing the scriptures, there has always been a two person Almighty God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word was with God, that's two persons.
And the Word was God, that's One God.

Appleyard:
You are wrong, brother! There is nothing like trinity in the bible. Can you pls show me where it is written that there is God the fatherm God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, all mergin to be One?

Pls, i will be waiting!

Then i shall reply properly to this thread!

Jesus prayed to the Father to send to believers another comforter,
that is three persons, jesus, the Father and another comforter (the Holy Spirit).
The Father is God, Jesus (the Word) is the same God, the Holy Spirit is the same God.

You don't believe those scriptures?
tell me what you think they mean.

johnw74: You are right of course, we know the scriptures are true and don't deny them.
Jesus goes to His Father, God.
And verse 16 is just one other place in the Bible which shows the three persons of God.

Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The Words that I speak to you I do not speak of Myself, but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the very works themselves.
Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatever you may ask in My name, that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,

An2elect2:
It is so easy to believe that there are three persons in one God from few passages in the new testament. How then do we explain the old testament where God is described multiple times as numerically one?

God is described as being One, One what?
One True God I believe, for there is only One True God.
That doesn't conflict with the One True God being two or more persons,
and scripture does say that the Father and the Son are two persons. (posted below)

Notice that no where in the old testament were we told God is three in one and even in the new testament! that passage says there are three that bear record in heaven NOT three persons that make one God!

Well, they are not three gods, so they must be three persons in God.
leaving the Holy Spirit out for simplicity:
We know the Father is God and we know the Word Jesus is God.

Okay that aside we are speaking of the Father here. Was prophet Isaiah not under the auction of the Holy spirit when he said this in I saiah 9:6?


"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is
given: and the government shall be upon his
shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The
everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Is Jesus, the promised messiah not being referred to here as the Father? or are you saying there are two Fathers?

Jesus could be referred to as Everlasting Father there because as scriptures show He is from Everlasting, and He could also be called the Father of Creation, just one example.
But because something is not known, is not reason to throw out all that is known.


Verses below show the Father and Jesus Christ being two persons.

The Word was with God, is two persons.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

Pro 8:22 Jehovah possessed me from the beginning of His way, before His works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was anointed from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth ever was.
Pro 8:30 even I was a workman at His side; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;

Eph 3:9 and to bring to light what is the fellowship of the mystery which from eternity has been hidden in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ;

1Jn 1:2 (for the Life was revealed, and we have seen it and bear witness, and show to you the everlasting Life, who was with the Father and was revealed to us),

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world. Again I leave the world and go to the Father.

Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

I and the Father is two persons.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one!
Are One is One God.

Php 2:6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

EzioAuditore:
Someone is definitely lying somewhere.

I am sure that none of the Bible writers are lying,
perhaps possibly mistaken at times? I don't know about that,
maybe what looks like contradictions can be explained,
even I can explain some.
God is perfect, but man isn't.

Some say that God creating light in Gen 1:3 and God creating lights in verse 14 is a contradiction. But it isn't.

God bought about light itself in verse 3, whereas in verse 14 God created lights, being the Sun and other lumanaries (planets that reflect the Sun's light).
God caused there to be light in verse 3, and in verse 14 God created the sun etc.
The light of verse 3 is perhaps the light of God's own Glory (let there be light).

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light. And there was light.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years.
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth. And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night, and the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.


In the end, it will be in the reverse order, the Sun and moon and stars will be taken away,

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

And again the light will be from the Glory of God.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Scholar8200:
Truth! Let me add, 1 Corinthians 8:6,"... The Father of Whom are all things, and we in Him; And One Lord Jesus Christ by Whom are all things, and we by Him" and 1 John 5:7," For There are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father,The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three are One." and finally Hebrews 1:1,2" God Who at sundry times and divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."

That is a good verse (bolded) for showing that the three persons of God, are One God

1 John 5:7," For There are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father,The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three are One."

Mar_12:32 And the scribe said to Him, Right, Teacher, according to truth You have spoken, that God is one, and there is no other besides Him.


God is One

The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost is One (and These Three are One)