₦airaland Forum

why not start mentioning such atheists here, you mentioned a staggering 99% so it shouldnt be hard to validate this claim ... why not start mentioning the names of such atheists here..

so i remember this thread again - it's been long guys and i really planned for this thread to float for a long time... invites: Teempakguy, Sirwere, loj, pr0ton, dorox and all..

what may be the cause of the new rise in Flat earth and Heliocentric propaganda surprisingly coming up in this well informed 21st century

LoJ:
Which people are you referring to?

lol

every religion, culture or cult would be dead - in fact human knowledge would end without passing it on to the younger ones.

Empiree:
Hey, johndon, how are you doing man?. Long time i heard u. How's life?. How is Igboland?. I heard igbo people want to belong?

They want to force their DNA on Israelis

I hope they are not disappointed when result comes out in August

Did you summit your blood as well?. It is gonna be interesting if your DNAs match zion Jews. You know it means you all can be exported to Israel for manual labor

In that case, Nigerians can take a break from Biafrans bruahaha

We are patiently waiting till August

lol this is another new thing.... never heard about the Dna thingy but i am one of those that are quite sure Igbos aint Isrealites... the ones claiming that should go and argue with their ancestors.

it's very mind boggling, many people lack the depth of mind it takes to conceive this universe that is why they can comfortably believe such petty tales from archaic herdsmen from the iron age.

imagine a universe of countless galaxies dancing to the tune of gravity, trillions of stars and planets in each of these galaxies with magnanimous distance between them all..

the earth and the sun is basically insignificant in this cosmic setting - the earth is no more than a subatomic particle in terms of universal scale..

then some people actually think that something powerful and big enough to create such ominously huge cosmos, comes to a local galactic cluster, to an average galaxy then inside this galaxy comes to a mediocre sun and a remote little blue world lost in the cosmic ocean..

then comes to this tiny world, goes to the middle east, falls in love with a tiny nomadic tribe more than others, helps them kill each other and every other person..

seriously you all think something big and powerful enough to create this universe can be that petty, childish, mundane and vane?

naaaah the character yahweh ridicules that notion of a universal creator cus with such Character - if there is indeed a God, making it this petty is an insult to it..

these gods are too small for this universe

malvisguy212:
the bible make it very clear and sound, joshua pray and God answer his prayer, it was a miracle, a supernatural event,

the sun is natural and so is the earth - so forget the "it was a supernatural event stuff, it doesn't hold water cus since such an event has natural results - it doesn't turn out well at all.

God created this world out from nothing, this is not an issue for Him.

LOL and i thought atheists are the ones who think the world came out of nothing..

moreover, we still use the phrase like "sun set" and "sun rose" There is no English (or Hebrew) phras indicating that the earth rotates until the horizon covers the Sun.

if you argue that the earth stopped rotating, it creates an even more problem cus that will mean the earth needs to stop abruptly which literally brings the world to an end...

BiafranBushBoy:
You u Should focus more on your grammar.. Instead of looking to challenge God .

Most Atheists I know are very sound!!

But welcome to Nigeria where every Tom, Dick and Harry out of hunger, becomes an atheist!!

your last words are untrue cus in Nigeria more than 95% are religious or practice one cult or the other therefore it's more like every Tom, Dick and Harry is religious..

anyway for his OP i think you should rather see it as a curious question, tender a sufficient answer if you can not attack his person and his grammar which in fact is a petty argument

this is probably a so called scientist trying to get into the lime light by twisting out crap right from his dreams - it's a fact that in fact the moon is drifting away from us...

i read it about it online and tv.. if the media wanted to cover it up you wouldn't even hear about it at all... so it's not about media hyping one more than the other but rather how often both occurs which then appeals to the laws of probability that one will appear more in the media coverage than the other................

#sighs... ayam just tired of this country.

lepasharon:
What were you expecting?

lol

GodsMopol:
well, I don't have an answer for that like I said, many answers are naturally not meant to make sense, just as death and lives and reproduction does not make sense too, because no one can really say, why the whole world came to being neither can any explain how a healthy being would die at about 100 of age and does not grow continuously, like I said, something's are natural meant not to make sense, and that's the reason for my rebuttal

this still is not a rebuttal

GodsMopol:
I don't have an answer for you bro, but its not going to change anything, there is no light at the end of whatever tunnel you are travelling in, I think people like Jay Z and co, who attended cold churches in their churches at their childhood days, happens to turn to those who criticize the God they never knew, lemme just advise you to attend a spirit filled church and the sky would never be able to contain what damage you would deck on the kingdom of darkness

this is not in the least a rebuttal

it ridicules the very idea of Godhood and omnipotency to show that the very plan of an omnipotent being can easily be thwarted by man or the devil - whatever happened to if God says "yes" no one can say No, i wonder.

this is deep and profound - let me process

wiegraf:
Ser genius, that using that example is particularly asinine should be self evident.

It's like stating that because a blind man can't see anything, that means it's empty all around him. See??



Where did I say that it was filled with matter??

I'm careful to use material in quotes for a reason. Or would bosons qualify as matter to you?

I said space has properties that has physical effects. These effects include the aforementioned gravitational lensing, effects on time and matter. Heck, gravity itself is an effect in a sense.

And if you want direct proof of the agent responsible for warping space, do you know gravitational waves were recently spotted?

Gravity is an effect not an uncaused value as Uyil would have us believe - well let's wait for his own idea on the causality of gravity ..

again i would suggest you both try not to turn this into something personal by using insutive words and persoanl remarks - we may all be wrong still

cc. teempakguy queed here is something interesting going on now - lets have fun again in this science section

UyiIredia:
Matter curves, we see that. Even for invisible matter we see it curves by its effect on visible matter eg when air blows a feather etc. That video is just one more example of matter curving not space-time curving.

quick question - will it be correct to assert that since matter curves nothing else can even it possess a geometrical structure.

- and please the video was used as a demonstration to mimick the relationship between space and matter, just like an analogy - habba

We need to clarify terms at this point. Define what you mean by space. For me, by space I mean nothing.

then wiegraf must understand that this is where the problem lies - subjective definition of the subject being debated.

space, as physics goes is a plain with geometrical points on which matter exist within - so the property of space as a geometrical structure [points] makes it a curvable plain going by this definition.

well i am going to drop here and not say no more since obviously the debate is based on subjective definitions which surely will not bring forth any result.

I don't accept that space curves. So I can't accept that. You'll need to define what you mean by space, and substantiate that definition. You also use circular logic here. You insist that certain things can't occur without space curving then use that to support the notion that space is more than just emptiness, which is bound to be the case if you think space curves. Note the logic: some things can't occur without space curving therefore space is more than just emptiness.

since you dont accept physical phenomenons like gravitational ripples and blackholes simply because it contradicts your idea of space - i cannot help you then, though it makes a curious thought how then you accept orbits and even mass.

and then give me one example of cosmological events that dont curve spacetime

Planetary orbits are attributed to gravity.

explain gravity that's the problem - under what physical interactions is gravity birthed

The suspension of the universe in space is a mystery. Clearly, some force holds it in space and presumably permeates all of space.

some force - here we go, driving back to the point.. is this force a property of space or independent of space - can space exist without this force or is this force a kind of innate property of the emptiness.

just a mention of this 'force' drives space to be far from nothing after all which then is consonant with your arguments here - or by soem force are we going back to the days of the aethers?

UyiIredia:
You are fond of handwaving away points without making credible refutations. If you think space is material, falsify my claim that space is nothing by stating physical properties of space. Any material entity has several physical properties.

isn't that what you did on wiegrafs post, making a confident claim that somehow you think to be credible just because you said it. There is no refutation to be tendered here, throughout antiquity the Philosophy of space has always boggled the human mind, many have brought their ideas of what space is or likely is and these arguments have persisted through time.

it was once conceived to possess aethers, waterlike cosmic materials that make objects float in space, some has imagined a static independent plain just like Newton whereas many have added a geometrical property to space known as Dimension which modern physics adds a fourth dimension [time] - spacetime continuum.

theories are devised to explain observed facts and throughout the history of space philosophy the main idea that more sufficiently explains the relationship of matter and space is the conception of space as a geometrical plane in which matter interferes with the geometrical structure..


this well more sufficiently explains orbits, gravitation or relativity more than any space model - i am not here to make confident remarks as you claiming validity, i am here to have a sound discussion aimed at establishing what is most likely right not to fight or claim to be right.

That is the mystery isn't it? How come the universe (stars, planets, comets etc) is suspended in infinite space without anything below to support it?

that more so is the observation that brings up the philosophical position of space being something right from ancient times, so we could say that the displacement of spacetime geometrical structure solves this problem as modern physics has established.

you would imagine a cosmos with empty space and stars within and then begin to wonder what holds these objects - or you could imagine a cosmos with space that actively interacts with the objects within [mass] to produce result [gravity] - these are varying ideas and i wont waste time to argue correctness cus it will still fall back to subjectivity of ideas.

It depends on the definition one uses. Some definitions of emptiness mean nothing. I just used the word 'emptiness' to reinforce my point that space is nothing (is not a physical thing). If you claim space (or nothing) is material, which is illogical BTW you better tell me its material properties.

exactly the point, emptiness doesn't really mean not physical..

Dawdy:
Ships appear to sink as they recede past the horizon
On the sinking ship, Rowbotham describes a mechanism by which the hull is hidden by the angular limits of perception - the ship will appear to intersect with the vanishing point and become lost to human perception as the hull's increasingly shallow path creates a tangent on which the hull is so close to the surface of the ocean that the two are indistinguishable. The ship's hull gets so close to the surface of the water as it recedes that they appear to merge together. Where bodies get so close together that they appear to merge is called the Vanishing Point. The Vanishing Point is created when the perspective lines are angled less than one minute of a degree. Hence, this effectively places the vanishing point a finite distance away from the observer.
Usually it is taught in art schools that the vanishing point is an infinite distance away from the observer, as so:


However, since man cannot perceive infinity due to human limitations, the perspective lines are modified and placed a finite distance away from the observer as so:


This finite distance to the vanishing point is what allows ships to shrink into horizon and disappear as their hulls intersect with the vanishing point from the bottom up. As the boat recedes into the distance its hull is gradually and perceptively appearing closer and closer to the surface of the sea. At a far off point the hull of the ship is so close to the sea's surface that it is impossible for the observer to tell ocean from hull.

this is plain silly - i am quite certain that the crap you posted up there doesn't even make sense to you...

the vanishing point in a flat plain means that the farther an objects goes from an observer the smaller it becomes until finally vanishing from sight entirely and that happens to every part of the ship not a gradual sink from the base of the ship to the mast - that can only happen in a curved surface.

If the flat earth model is correct then approaching ships will not reveal mast first before the lower parts of the ship comes into view. No, the whole part of the ship would appear as a little point that gets bigger as it gets closer.

we a know that isn't the case rather ships approaching or departing in a vast mass of land shows obvious evidence for a curved surface as the mast comes up first and sink last on both occassions

UyiIredia:
Which is why I mentioned invisible objects in the comment he quoted. I am not misrepresenting anything. It is those who claim space curves or is material that are misrepresenting an immaterial entity as a material one.

visualizing gravity as an attractive force or a curvature of space-time arent really any distant from each other cus attractive bodies are achievable in a curvable space as the video wiegraf posted showed. so Einstein's position does not refute Newton's postulation but rather validates it

things like blackholes, gravitational ripples are only possible in a space that curves which means that there is an underlining quality that is space more than just the emptiness the impression reveals in a physical sense.

i am still waiting for your explanation of orbits in an empty space

Dawdy:
One of heliocentrist’s favorite “proofs” of their ball-Earth theory is the ability for ships and planes to circumnavigate, to sail or fly at right angles to the North Pole and eventually return to their original location. Since the North Pole and Antarctica are covered in ice and guarded “no-fly” zones, however, no ships or planes have ever been known to circumnavigate the Earth in North/South directions, only East/West; And herein lies the rub, East or West-bound circumnavigation can just as easily be performed on a flat plane as it can a globular sphere. Just as a compass can place its center-point on a flat piece of paper and trace a circle either way around the “pole,” so can a ship or plane circumnavigate a flat-Earth. The only kind of circumnavigation which could not happen on a flat-Earth is North/South-bound, which is likely the very reason for the heavily-enforced flight restrictions. Flight restrictions originating from none other than the United Nations, the same United Nations which haughtily uses a flat-Earth map as its official logo and flag!

it's time i brought out time to put all these silly conspiracy theories to rest once and for all, first of all - everything you have written up there is totally destroyed by the fact that people has actually circumnavigated the globe via north and south pole and return to their start point..

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/first-circumnavigation-via-both-poles-surface..

check it and see for yourself then stop peddling this rubbish that the north and south poles are no flight zones cus they are not, you can go if you have the means and then goodluck with the cold..

let me hear you raise this point again..

Loj , teempakguy

wiegraf:
It has material properties, like dimensions.

The force carrying particles aren't 'materials' either, but they have material properties as well, despite the fact you can have multiple of them occupying the same space...

What is your problem here? Is it lack of imagination?

Oya, explain why relativity accurately predicts and explains things like gravitational lensing and Mercury's orbit?

i think you guys are misrepresenting the very concept of material, that something is unseen doesnt make it immaterial..

UyiIredia:
Not an idea but a fact. Space is nothing or emptiness. All physical things from the subatomic to the galactic exist within that context.

Lol speaking with so much confidence does not in fact validate an idea as fact - anyway moving on..

now what makes objects float in this emptiness? under what physical laws makes this possible and using that term explain gravitational attraction, orbits and cosmic expansion

again emptiness is not exactly same as nothing....

UyiIredia:
So a professor demonstrates 'space curving' using a cloth on a trampoline

tell me your own idea

Dawdy:
You haven't given me what I want. You showed me CGI again despite being told that it wasn't wanted. Pls Johndon22 show real footage of the Earth. Not computer generated imagery.

I knew he would still maintain they are CGi when stumped... Bros na real images be that... I can't help you if you willfully live in such peurile denial

LoJ:
I am amazed! In 2017 people still believe the earth is flat... damm°

it's a pity bro... are you through with your exams

what Eratosthenes figured out more than 2000 years ago, i cant believe we re going over this again in 2017... folks need to get back to the BC's to get schooled, some dont deserve to be in this modern world

majestique:
hmmm...I used to believe in a spherical earth until I read a topic about flat earth.... now I know better.

can you please provide us these papers that you read

africa #sighs.. even the oyibo weh carry the tales of jesus and yahweh was never this imbecilic while practising it

Mophasa:
It's actually true
It has been proven
If you doubt then tell me where the black race came from

you may be regurgitating myths from the bible or any other religious scripture but the fact is that the first humans to walk this earth were from here and this is backed by fossil records not just a mythological story from a particular tribe.

Tell me in what way that black race is caused - as a matter of fact it's folks like you with these type of ludicrous ideas that drag the black race to the mud