₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
The proponents of reincarnation believe that it occurs after death, but Elijah did not die! Besides, this is what it says:

So it can be concluded Elijah is still alive in the flesh and blood in heaven right now? And also appeared with Moses (already dead) with same Characteristics of a spirit?

Now before anyone assumes that this means Elijah's spirit(human) see:

And when they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “Please let a double [b]portion of [size=14pt]your spirit[/size] be upon me.”
2 Kings 2:9

You see i had to move this one a little up first because the spirit you mentioned up is translated in most biblical texts as Power

But luke 1:17 mentioned both Spirit and power so this falls sorely on the translation

It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous [which is to seek and submit to the will of God]—in order to make ready a people [perfectly] prepared [spiritually and morally] for the Lord.”
Luke 1:17

Since both spirit and power are mentioned here the spirit talked about by Elishah in 2kings 2:9 cannot be same as the spirit talked about here since the 2kings 2:9 spirit is broadly referring to power and not actual spirit.

But here we have both power and spirit in bold texts.... How then do you hope to conclude using reference to 2kings 2:9 that the Spirit mentioned in both verses have one and the same meaning.

Meaning, John would be coming with the mantle/anointing of Elijah and this will enable him do a specific thing (out of all Elijah did) viz:

It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous [which is to seek and submit to the will of God]—in order to make ready a people [perfectly] prepared [spiritually and morally] for the Lord.”
Luke 1:17

Elijah did that on Mount Carmel

Spirit and power here means separate things, so if the verse mentioned would come in the spirit of Elijah only then it would have been reconcilable even though actual greek text would still be needed for evaluation.

but it so remains that matt 17:12-13 explicitly recognized John as a reincarnated Elijah.

Scholar8200:
Sure he was, the more reason why, if John was Elijah reincarnated, the person seen on the mount should have been John not Elijah!

Besides, Peter and the rest knew John so if the person they saw on the mount was John, at least there should have been an allusion thereto!

Nope Since Elijah was the default person reincarnated as John according to the bible it makes more sense that he should return to his default personality as Elijah after his task was done as John.

So on the mount it wasn't misplaced he appeared as Elijah instead of John, that would actually be the most likely case.

"But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him…"
Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the
Baptist. Matt 17:12-13

this verse the OP quoted affirms that the biblical position is that John was the reincarnated Elijah sent to prepare a road for Jesus.

So whether he appeared in the mountain as John or Elijah it remains that he had the two personalities and it would have been more expected that he used his default personality of Elijah.

The OP actually makes a strong case: The bible actually supported reincarnation and to fault this is also to agree the bible is wrong.

Your ball sir

Hi guys. . . Seems our science section is beginning to slack a bit these days and getting somewhat dry and unsciency.

I am here yet again to propose a new discourse thread.

This is a thread i am particularly open to entertain questions regarding [size=18]the cosmos, astronomy, astrophysics.[/size] and a butter of healthy philosophy.

And also have a very good discussion on them....

Here i will not pick questions to answer but will attempt all to the best i can and for the religiously inclined who always somehow bears a religious view toward the above said disciplines i am also open to answer your questions based on my own opinions that i will never at any time claim absolute truth or correct.

The questions asked are as always open to discussion but i'd appreciate if do not argue or engage in any emotional batters...

I'd even love for it to have a strictly science tilt but since the cosmos also invokes a sense of spirituality and somewhat religiosity in most, i am inclined to also leave the floor open to accommodate such questions as regards the cosmos.

Please i will love for us to keep this sane and orderly with a good stack of intellectual riches and enlightening discussions.

the floor is open

Cc. Loj Blackjewelry Sirwere RobinHez FrancisTony donnffd Antiparticle Krystalzkris freecocoa OgundeleT TheDauraMallam, K9blunt ( f ), joywendy( f), herald9 , MarieSucre reallest PAGAN9JA krattoss hahn Queed, dabosuker
realtem sorextee Dekatron djdoxxx kolajamesjnr Liekiller SIRANDREWS , plaetton , menesheh wiegraf , finofaya Redlyn , Longstride, Rainess rinrin23 tangled Misogynist2014 Pr0ton , davien teempakguy dorox..

Scholar8200:
Now op, that place you quoted took place after the revelation on the Mount of Transfiguration where Moses and ,....Elijah appeared to Jesus! The implication is that John the Baptist was NOT Elijah. Else, there would have been at least a faint allusion thereto either by Jesus or the disciples. If John was Elijah reincarnated, and transfiguration took place with Moses and Elijah appearing, where was John?

3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Jesus Matthew 17:3

Wasn't John already dead before the transfiguration?

UyiIredia:
OP is just a misguided eediot.

Wow see vexation

This is just how myth goes!.

Satan was once an angel in a perfect heaven then evil grew within him.
-Therefore heaven wasn't perfect in the first place.

then he rebelled and got thrown out.
-even protests, coups, revolutions and rebellions takes place in heaven too.. Hmmm heaven is simply a copy of earthly politics.

And then he was sent to earth out of countless planets in the cosmos.
-Cool story

HardMirror:
1. BIBLICAL AFTER LIFE CONTRADICTS THE LAWS OF CAUSE AND EFFECT UPON WHICH IT IS FOUNDED
Romans 3: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

The cause?
We have all sinned
The effect?
We Can't enjoy the glory of God

Solution?
John 3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.

FANTASTIC
Cause of our salvation?
Believing in God's love and sacrifice
Effect?
We won't perish but have ever lasting life

MAKES SENSE RIGHT? WRONG!
Only makes sense when not examined.
Let us start with what condemned us.

The bible says we have all sinned. It makes it impossible that we are on this earth without sin.
WE ARE ALL CONDEMNED SINNERS!
So what is our sin?
The original sin we are all born with is the sin that a certain ADAM and EVE ate a certain fruit that made them know GOOD and EVIL

Hmmmm... Getting interesting

So the bible is saying we are all guilty because we all have knowledge of good and evil (which is a sin to jehovah)

This begs the question. Why not just punish adam and eve and give his offspring a fresh start? A chance to choose for ourselves?

if there is heaven, Why not create us directly into heaven?
It makes NO SENSE TO LOVE US and NOT want us to perish, YET you still allow people come to the earth only to have their chances of making heaven almost zero.

There must be a reason why we must be born on the earth and the only reasonable thing from a loving god would be that we are all condemned to hell even before birth on earth (meaning we existed somewhere before we were born) and God so loved us he is giving us a second chance to be saved by coming to this earth.
Anything other than this means God does not love us and actually wants many to perish because he knows coming to earth would only mean making bad choices that would land us in hell.

So why not create us all directly into heaven instead, since he loves us so much?

The thing is if there is anything as a Perfect God with the Ability to create a perfect world and wants you to be in it.

You would have been there already.

There wouldn't be a need to subject anyone to a cruel test they didn't ask for of which results it supposedly already still knows and determines.

frank317:
Sometimes I wonder if this Jesus story was told to have happened in Nigeria... the whites and Jews would definitely laugh at the silly story.

We have many of such hero legends and fables here is Africa, even Africans laugh at it and ridicule it but they carry Jewish folklores, myths and fables for head pass even the jews weh get am

Explorers:
Can you just imagine, i dont just get what the past has to do with this.

Soon mankind will look at how we treat animals with the same disgust and contempt we look at how our ancestors owned and treated slaves.

joseph1013:
Lovely stuff. I was thinking about these lines this morning and this occurred to me:

We are the most important part of the cosmos from our frame of reference. From your frame of reference, the universe ends when you're dead. Someone might say it is not a very objective way to look at it. That it's exactly how the universe did not end after the extinction of the dinosaurs. And the person will be right. Yes, it is indeed very objective. Else we will find ourselves dealing with the infinitely large picture of what's more important.

If it's not us, and it's not all living things, and it's not earth, and it's not our solar system, neither is it the Milky Way, we'll get to a point where even the universe as we know it is not important enough... Then what if there's something beyond the universe?

So what's important?

Importance is a child of the mind, an idea of the mind in direct quantification of things and how they affect it/him/her.

A banana is more important to a monkey than gold but to us gold is more so.

So importance as a child of distinct minds is subjective as this subjectivity limits importance to the mundane sphere of the mind that conceives it, it doesn't reach to become a universal truth.

Nature happens irrespective of what a 'mind' finds important or not therefore there is no 'importance' generally attached to any particular thing in nature following natural manifestations broadly.

there is no V.I.P seat for anything in nature or the cosmos. . we all are doomed for the same fate and somehow directly or indirectly dependent on each other.

So for a mind to conceive the idea of importance over how things affect him is clearly fine as long as it is within the confines of his interactive sphere.

Like chimps deem themselves more important than us.

But for one to make his/her idea of importance a 'universal' quantification is plain out flat delusion.


The question "so what is important"

then begs another "From whose judgement of importance? "

delkuf:
how did we came into existence. i want u to explain in ur own believe how we began to exist. do we all gave just came from somewhere, or we all are in earth from d beginning. how did we get d body we live in? how did we get life? pls lets argue like mature pple

A woman and a man had very sweet sex and i am the result.

Funniest thread i have created so far.... but seriously no christian has enough faith as to do away with their money and wait for Jesus who is supposedly according to them almost here...?

lol.

They don't really practise what they believe

Pr0ton:
Gods of Egypt dey my back

You go join Gods of sumer soon i no send

Pr0ton:
Even Jesus sef dey derail.. So many nonsense he said in the Bible that were off point.. Like who cares about where birds and cos live when asked where you live?

then don't pull a 'Jesus' on my thread

Pr0ton:
So scrap that off like it was never a problem?

That's how it works

Give us egoo..

Add abeg on top!!!

Krystalzkris:
fake prophet... Jesus wey em number no dey go since last week.. How em take call u for fone?

You have got the wrong number madam... Jesus called me on phone i even didnt pick the first one and he called again

KingEbukasBlog:
Johnydon22 , Pr0ton since mankind would be obliterated by any of the listed

This is mark of intellectual laziness because if you actually went into details you would have known some of these things are as realistic as 'Jesus coming again'[/quote]

1. AI Uprising

First this is a speculation and has never claimed to be true that is the difference and besides we have not even made 1 single A.I yet so time still deh.

2. Epidemic

which one?

3. Asteroid strike

there are satellites scattered around earth's orbit so we can spot an asteroid in direct collision with the earth and nuke it before it even crosses our magnetosphere.

4. Economic hardship due depletion of resources

Like in how many thousands of years? The resources on earth can sustain 50billion people yet.

5. The cruelty of evolution

evolution takes millions of years i won't live that long

6. Alien Invasion

A conspiracy speculation that is as realistic as Jesus coming again after all Jesus is also alien.

7. World War/Nuclear bomb strikes

Common mehn people always survive wars.

8. Global Warming

Very slow process... fun fact: without plants the earth has enough oxygen in it's atmosphere to still sustain organisms here for 1000years

How will you enjoy the money that the Christians will give you or for your generation or as the case maybe

So none of these is coming soon so i have enough time to enjoy the money and pass them to my generations but remember Jesus is coming soon....

Guys send me your money naaaaaah Jesus is almost here, he called me!!!

Strawman:
Bro I seriously thought of this for a moment oh. This guy may actually be in desperate need for financial aid and he's trying to make it look like a joke so we won't see him as one broke ass nigga like that.

Mr. johnydon22, I have seen poor people come out and beg for money, and Nairalanders eventually help them. Please be bold and ask for financial aid, we will help you out. Poverty is not a joking matter. Stop pretending

LOL

Pr0ton:
At last one dummy theist could specify what God he refers to

Why not naaaa... be proud of your God cus he needs you to do the talking for him..

na me you call dumb? the thunder weh go blast you eeehn go borrow power from Zeus, thor, amadioha and sango

winner01:
Chai, see strategic bailing out ,
I don miss nairaland

Bail who out? Pr0ton?? **dies** Well anybody can believe what makes them feel good.

But you guys can get your own thread and have your unrelated arguments there or better still wait till i have had enough here.

Don't try steer my thread off course....

So you don't even believe Jesus can talk to me on phone chai the irony!!!

winner01:
No be only sceptics, you go soon see septic tank. Seems you dont need the money.

I am the one offering you salvation, time is running out... You better repent cus Jesus' is coming soon.

Give me your money to be saved..

Pr0ton:
Bros dey form reputation ooleri

That's the problem with theists. They just won't think.

Come bros don't derail my thread from the message Jesus gave me to pass because bros J go vex give you if these guys no send me their money keep..

winner01:
Dis one na message of badluck.

Ewoooo Jesus message of end time don turn message of bad luck... Bros na you talk that one, my hand no deh am.. OYO is your case.

Bros Jesus sheeey you deh see them? i gave them the message they called your message supported by your bible badluck..

Oya naaa..

I'm still giving you a chance to save yourself oo send me all your money so you can make it when Jesus arrives.. aaaah aaaah.

what is wrong with you sceptics sef

winner01:
Oya go ant eat.

Very important... na sleep eat, sleep eat i go work today!!!

Pr0ton:
Hell to you and God for all I care

Jesu God cannot go to hell... But wait God is omnipresence (everywhere) hell is somewhere and if God is everywhere then God should also be in hell.

if God is not in hell then God is not everywhere therefore not omnipresence.

Hmmm this one is strong but WTF to hell with that logic...

Give us this money

One more time ... "All we are saying is.............."

winner01:
"Money is the root of all evil huh
What did you say you were before again? Catholic or christian?
lol
So obvious

Dayuuum we have catholic and Christian... **Carrys hand on head**

Go back and tell bros J that we wont fall for such cheap scam, you can always restrategise

Choi so you don't believe i talked to bros Jesus? .

the bible said in the end people will not believe you when you bring them this message.

"Blessed are those who do not see but yet believe"

Time is running out save your soul my brother this is not a scam, I and Jesus really spoke on phone last night..

Believe me with faith.!!

Lilbrown007:
HAHA REALLY I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE HORSE O
I WILL REALLY MISS MY PLAY STATION 4
I WILL REALLY MISS MY LAPTOP
WHAT IF I HAVEN'T FINISHED WATCHING THIS GAME OF THRONES SEASON 6 AND E HAPPEN I GO VEX O
I WILL REALLY MISS NAIRALAND WHATSAPP FACEBOOK ABI HOW WE GO DO NA
I GO MISS MY TV O
THEY STILL GET GAMES O WAY I NEVER PLAY...JOHNY HOW WE GO DO NA THE LORD IS COMING I DAY FEAR O JESUS FORGIVE ME....

IF HEAVEN BIG LIKE NIGERIA E MEAN SAY GOD GO DIVIDE M INTO STATES WHO KNOW ANOTHER TRIBAL WAR FIT START THERE O HMMMM

My brother forget all these things they are carnal things.

In heaven you'd have no form, no male or female, you'll never be hungry, never need anything.

Just wear white cloth with gold sashes and crown and praise God forever and ever and ever and ever and ever.............. Jeeeez that's a long time to do the same boring shiit over and over again.

Anyway forget that, the point is you'll live forever in the land made of gold...

repent now times is running out!!

Pr0ton:
Thousands of ways kid! The superior of all is our mind! That little atheistic-oriented mind does great things than the boring, hurting, hope-bashing, horror-springing, etc religious one. It adds more meaning and beauty to life. Unlimited freedom of thinking and many more wonders. It's your job to figure out others..

God (zeus) have mercy on you for not believing you heretic!!!

winner01:
Christians dont laugh at alice in wonderland, where on earth do you get your facts?

Wonderland awaits my bros, don't miss your chance!!!

winner01:
Do you need this money or not?, I change my mind really fast, other atheists are waiting.

I am the one doing you a favour here trying to save your soul so you wouldn't miss the rapture.

Jesus gave me this instruction to give to you all last night when we talked on phone and he told me he would have been here already if not that he stopped to water his horse.

so this should be on my terms, i am the one doing you a service here... send me yo email bros so i can send my A/C.

Money is the root of all evil, bro J has appointment me to keep all your evil for you so you can join him when the rapture comes which is like really really soon.

So bros time is running out, make a decision now and be saved !!!

Isn't it remarkable, Christians laugh at 'Alice in wonderland' as a fairytale but they are hoping to go to Wonderland

Pr0ton:
On Isaiah 1:18, winner01 gave a 'reasoning' that is only positive in leading to the path of religious delusions and rubbish, "about getting an imaginary cure for an imaginary disease" as the verse interpretes. That kind of reasoning easily enters the list of flawed reasioning and it's no reasoning at all.

On the belief of Jesus's existence is another naive delusion, a strong stvpid belief over an idea that has very weak and little evidence for support.

The biggest delusion of all is believeing a story fabrigated to fit in some vague "prophecies" as a real event in history that was an actual prophecies-fulfilling. Deluded Christians like this can hardly succeed in making sense out of their made-feeble lives.

Duuurh what will you atheist gain by picking on our beliefs and faith na You'll burn in hell you fool.

And since you believe "the earth will burn away..", give us all your goodies so your labour over the years won't be a waste that is all we are saying..

Singing "All we are saying is................... "

This thread sweet die!!!