₦airaland Forum

dmandy:
[s]
Of course, Christ died for all.... na only Christians? [/s]

Dont divert !
Your statement is pagan, hindu , atheist can make heaven , but Jesus said he is the way (john 14:6) but most of these people u mentioned dont belive in anyone called Jesus , thats where the contradiction come in ; if they go to heaven , wont that make Jesus a liar at john 14:6 ?

NOTE : am not saying its not good to be righteous o nor am i condemning anyone , just thinking about john 14:6

dmandy:
Capital NO.

You believe in Christ, good, go make disciples of all nation. Again, thank God because it was by his grace that you believed.

Now, what will take you to heaven is not just your believe, but your deeds (God "will repay each person according to what they have done Rom 2:6). I think, God is the God of everyone and not just God of Christians. Your fore fathers who pleased God are in heaven chilling. Muslims, Hindus, Pagans, even atheist who please God will go to heaven.


I am glad that I am a Christian that means I need to do more (LK 12:48... to whom much is given) and that does not include judging people of different faiths and believe.

... What happen to john 14:6 ? @ underlined

ammyluv2002:
Do you that our forefathers (some) served God? They lived upright, they were faithful to the creator. Most of them believe there's a supreme being and they were always thankful to Him.


Well, i think those who lived upright will go to hell sha ie Abraham walked with God and he went to heaven

Am shocked @ bold , so Abraham went to heaven without Jesus dying for his inherited sin ?

Recently , I saw a man trying to get the attention of a young lady but to my suprise his friend told him " Bode , take it easy o you know you just got married last saturday ." and he smiled , so fast ; someone who got married has started chasing skirts all around , its barely a week he got married o .

I begin to wonder , Why Cant Marriage Vows Stop People From Cheating ? Is Marriage Vows Just For Fun ? I still dont understand cos have attend some weddings and I know how emotional that moment when couples exchange vows can be . Why do they quickly forget ?

Am curious ...

@ Emusan

Matt 28:18 said Jesus was GIVEN all authority ,really? WHY WOULD AN ALMIGHTY GOD BE GIVEN AUTHORITY ? ITS simply ABSURD !

Gen 41:41 " 'see here' Pharaoh said to Joseph, ' I place you IN AUTHORITY OVER ALL the land of Egypt'" , does this mean Joseph is equal to Pharaoh ? No , Pharaoh GAVE HIM All authority , Joseph was Given and thus still subjected to Pharaoh

Jesus admit he was GIVEN , thus under the authority of the one who gave him authority ,


" for "God has put everything under his feet" Now when it says everything has been put under him, this clearly does not include the one who put everything under him " - 1cor 15:27

Appleyard:
Nobody told you that the wages of sin is " only " spiritual death. What we tried to make you see is that; death does not literally mean the demise of the physical body ceasing to exist in the physical realm-earth. Rather, death is a process and the starting point of it is " dying spiritually " before any form of physical death takes place.

The Bible has a great deal to say about death and, more importantly, what happens after death. Physical death and spiritual death are both a separation of one thing from another. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of
the soul from God. When understood in that way, the two concepts are very closely related, and both physical death and spiritual death

Stop this nonsense , roman 6:23 refers to both spiritual and physical death ; we have all sin and we must all pay the wages which is DEATH thats why we all die , so what is death (physical) ?

CaptainJune:
Physical death came as a curse to all mankind after the fall of Adam. It is irreversible till the people of God all come together in paradise and the former things are no more.

Christ did not come to earth to die to give us physical life (immortality). This death is one of the grave consequences of the Fall but it is not the wages of sin that separates people from God neither is it the wages of sin that leads one to hell.

Everyone will taste physical death whether righteous or unrighteous (except where God says otherwise) which came as a result of Adam's disobedience but spiritual death is what distinguishes someone living in sin from spiritual life which indicates someone who has accepted Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour.

What lead to the curse of physical death ?

@ captainjune and appleyard

If romans 6:23 is only about spiritual death , why did Adam now died after spending 930 years ? From where did humans inherit physical death since the wages of sin is only spiritual death ?

Scholar8200:
As a creature, his first father, Adam, was directly created and commanded to reproduce hence the psalmist attributes the same creation process to himself though what was described in preceding verses was the reproduction/conception process.

Everyone given birth to is a Creation .

But God was not created hence the Speaker in Proverbs did not once say 'I was made'! Rather He repeats it , 'I was brought forth'! In describing the things that were created, HE uses another verb!

Stop confusing yourself with this old english of brought forth ! I WAS GIVEN BIRTH TO , how ?

The inclusion of labour and pain (came after the fall of man) is peculiar to man's parlance not as a normal part but due to the fall.

Rubbish !

Proverbs 8:25,26
25Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world

I believe you would appreciate personification when you see one? The passage in Psalm 90:2 is expressed in Proverbs quoted above to show that God, the Originator of all things, [size=25]made the earth [/size] and settled the mountains thus clarifying the personification used in Psalm 90:2.

Another example of such personification is Isaiah 59:4
None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth:
they trust in vanity, and speak lies;
they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

@ underlined , since you admit the expression earth is brought forth with labour pains means MADE The earth , why are you shying away from given the same meaning to proverb 8:24 where the same expression appeared ?

Scholar8200:
While referring to his mother's womb in the verse quoted meaning the 'possessing' was part of the conception before the 'bringing forth'. Hence it would be wrong to single it out as a sole action of creation just like Adam was created.
For thou hast possessed my reins:
thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.

The psalmist applaud it has act of creation ! Psalm 139:14 , is that wrong ?

Besides unlike the psalmist,the Speaker in Proverbs 8 affirms twice of being brought forth!

The main point is that "he was brought forth as with labour pains " , what does it mean that God give birth to him as with labour pains ? Remember that God also give birth to the earth with labour pains ? What does it mean ?

Scholar8200:
From Psalm 139, possess is that which took place within before the bringing forth!
Psalm 139:13 shows us the 'possessing' was more an internal action that precedes the 'bringing forth':
For thou hast possessed my reins:
thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.

And The psalmist admit this so - called internal action is the act of creating him wonderfully ! Psalm 139:14 . So what do you mean by INTERNAL ACTION ?

Emusan:
[s]
as usual always twisting word.
Let me repeat myself once again, the point here is HOW THE SEPTUAGINT RENDERED THE VERSE not how PEOPLE INTERPRETED IT.

If we should go by interpretation there are many ones out there, that's why I even challenged you TO SHOW US HOW scholar, B. F. Westcott interpreted Proverbs 8:22 (which you agree with on rendering of Psalm 45)

But you boycotted that part as if you didn't see.
So do yourself a favour by focusing on how SEPTUAGINT RENDERED IT which is the point here.



This is another unscriptural understanding.

According to you the literal rendering of that verse is "the throne of you the God into the age of the age"

No one will argue that this isn't referring to Yahweh not matter how it being rendered in Psalm 45 so the author of Hebrew QUOTED THE VERSE WORD FOR WORD no paraphrase which means it supposed to be rendered as it was in Psalms 45

Which will read literally: About the Son He said; "the throne of you the God into the age of the age".

I think the question to ask ourselves is, why a verse that is referring to God in the Old Testament DIRECTLY QUOTED AND APPLIED TO THE SON? [/s]

Stop making Noise .

The LXX is not dogmatic about psalm 45:6,7 it admits two renderings .

malvisguy212:
Your view of Chiyl is attached to the 'birth pains' as it fits your view of Jesus being created here in Proverbs 8. I have no problem with the 'birth pain' but has it occurred to you that what you are indicating here is that " God gave birth to Jesus in PAIN?"

[s] have you ask your self , were chiyl is used else were in the bible ?

Micah 1:12
12For the inhabitant of a]
">Maroth BECOMES WEAK waiting for
good, Because a calamity has come
down from the LORD To the gate of Jer
Yes, you see what you are doing here ? Comparing the nature of God and human, would you say God is weak too because chiyl is used in proverb 8 ? NO, so you should focus on proverb 8:22 which say “Producer.” LXXVg, “who
created”; but in vs 22 Vg reads, “POSSESSOR.”
[/s]

Good ! As a bible student explain the underlined for me ? What does it mean ? Hope you remember that God is also said to giv birth to the earth in labour pain ? What does that mean ?

Emusan:
Keep dancing around!!!

So if the Greek word used conveys "days of age", wasn't the same Greek word used in Psalm 90:2

But you must find a way of twisting Micah but Psalm still remains even when we also read about the Father as THE BEGINNING which you interpreted as ORIGIN here

And the Greek word used in Micah directly means EVERLASTING!!! LXX

A sincere reader also knows Jesus Is Created (LXX) , so he will understand Micah 5:2 in it context which says Jesus going forth is from old, from eternity . His ORIGIN is from old , from eternity . Origin reveal he came into existence at a point in time .


We can say the same for the Father if you can show me a single verse that said the Father was created or given birth to ?

Scholar8200:
You appear to be eager to edit that passage.

Already I highlighted how 'brought forth' was repeated twice therein and also drew on a parallel verse in Psalm 139 to show that the word possess is used in relation to the 'brought forth' process. Thankfully, both passages were referring to living beings!

If you will single out 'possess' and throw away the 'brought forth' repeated twice, you are a free moral agent but you would have diminished from the word, deleting vs 24 and 25 because you feel your thinking supersedes the Word!!!

Can you give birth to what you already possess ?

Emusan:
In the first place how do you know the organization I'm talking about?

You need more of basic English, I didn't compare the two verse BUT HOW THE VERSE WAS TRANSLATED IN LXX and their own.

Lol...going forth refers to ORIGIN but the ONLY God is the beginning (ORIGIN). So what about the second phrase? "FROM EVERLASTING" Does EVERLASTING mean ORIGIN too



When He was actually not the one doing it according the that chapter.



The LXX directly said Jesus is from EVERLASTING Micah 5:1, do you agree?

The greek word used in the LXX conveys " days of age" not everlasting ! Check Micah 7:14 where the same greek word appears in the septuagint , it doesnt mean isreal have been feeding on bashan and gilead from everlasting .
It depicts ancient times since the context indicates he has an ORIGIN .


Whereas the greek word used at proverb 8:22 directly mean CREATE ! LXX

malvisguy212:
compear proverb 8:24 with Genesis 1:2, it say:
Now the earth was formless and empty,
darkness was over the surface of the
deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The earth was formless and empty ,why ? Because the earth was NOT frame yet by the WORD (Jesus) , how the earth BEGAN to exist ? The answer is in Hebrew 11:3

" By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible."

The word was God,that was made flesh (john1:1) . Proverb 8:24 talk about Jesus pre-existence, men only BEGAN to see Him when He was given birth to. NO one has ever see Jesus in His true NATURE.
When I say given birth to I mean , when the father speak the word at his command.

The given birth to in proverb 8:24 didnt happen when Mary gave birth to Jesus . The Oceans are formed then .

So explain how Jesus was given birth to with labour pains before the springs are formed ? Proverb 8:24

johnw74:
they are two persons, one God,
you will never understand, that's why you keep asking the same questions

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed;....

Stop this nonsense , two persons cannot be One God .

" but to us there is One God , The Father ( note that its 1 person)" - 1 cor 8:6

" but to us there is One God, The Father and Son ( two persons)" - johnw74

Who is correct ?

A lot of false prophets say God is dead, God cannot die

That means Jesus is not God Almighty ! He Died

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus Christ flesh body died for three days and nights, and did not see decay
His Eternal Spirit of course did not die

as Jonas was three days in the whale's belly, so was Jesus Christ three days in the tomb,
as with jonas, the same with Jesus,

Did Jonas die?

Lol , same with jesus .

Jonas didnt die , that means Jesus didnt die too, WHO DIED FOR OUR SINS THEN Since Jesus didnt die ?

and I do, it is written



Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ,

Lol , Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ , so jesus is not God again ?

Mary didn't give birth to God who has always existed,

Jesus Christ received God's spirit at His first breath after birth.

Hmm Mary didnt give birth to God , nice . Keep confessing

You keep asking the same questions because you do not comprehend,
you have been blinded.



Duh, I call her Mom, like Jesus would have called Mary similar, seeing as she gave birth to Him.

Final question:

Mary gave birth to Jesus Or God ?

johnw74:
And the blinded think that because, God will have those who were of the syanogue of satan, come and worship at the feet of believers, that Jesus Christ is not to be worshipped. --sectarian thinking.



The delusional think because John 4:23 shows that the Father is to be worshipped,
rules out the scriptures that show Jesus Christ should be worshipped.

it's confusion, and it's evil, jw and other unbeliever, are going to lenghts to try and show against the scriptures, that Jesus Christ should not be worshipped.

You should adhere to the following, if possible:

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

It's talking about you.

TRUE WORSHIPPERS, okay ( joh 4:23)

johnw74:
You don't believe the Bible verses showing that God the Word became Jesus Christ,
and that He is the image of the Father,
we know you don't believe the bible, yet you quote it.

God the father is different from God the word , shey ? So thats how many Gods ? 2

oh boy, --Yes that flesh did die and was resurrected, you don't know any of the bible do you

So God died for three days? Matt 12:40

unbelievable, --God is Eternal,
God is Spirit, truly His Eternal Spirit never dies, , it is really weird for you to say someone else has confusion
[/quote
]




johnwconfusion , you said God is eternal yet admit he died .

[quote]You are not even in kindergarten, you know nothing at all, and are so, so, confused,
not believing scripture will do that.

Joh 1:1 ....and the Word was God....

1Ti 3:16 ....God was manifest in the flesh....

Those scriptures are true, but not to you

someone actually gave you 1 Like for your confusion and lack of knowledge, that would have to be jw (dolphinheart)

If you truly belive that God was manifested in flesh , why are you denying Mary as the mother of God ?
what do you call the woman through whom you come into the world ?

JMAN05:
[KJV] 1 Chronicles 29:20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king.

Start worshiping David.

Also read Daniel 2:46 where Nebuchadnezzar "worshiped" Daniel, KJV.

So start worshiping Daniel.

You want more?

Lol

Rev 3:9 King James Bible
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, Which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


From the above , Even Jesus followers are worshipped !

Let them continue in delusion : John 4:23 said it all

Emusan:
Yeah and I'll continue to be frustrated over the kingdom of darkness who trying to twist the Word of God.

The next thing is to run back to Scholars, please what does this scholar say about John 1:1 and Proverb 8:22?



I think you're missing the point here and this is another way to deviate from the point you raise in the OP.

The point here is HOW SEPTUAGINT LXX RENDERED A VERSE not HOW PEOPLE INTERPRETED IT? so if you can be fair enough I challenge you to provide how scholar, B. F. Westcott interpreted Proverbs 8:22 whether he interpreted it as the Wisdom being created or not

English Septuagint I read on Psalm 45 rendered it as "Thy throne, O God..." now compare this with how an organization rendered it in BOTH PSALM 45 and Hebrew 1 where the writer applied it to Jesus.

Can you imagine the underlined ! The septuagint or english translation you read , had it been you paid attention to the literal rendering of that passage in the septuagint , you will realize why its said that the LXX greek admit two renderings

" the throne of you the God into the age of the age" .

This literal reading permit it to be rendered " God is thy throne" as seen in many english translations . And this is the most correct because the person been addressed has a God . (verse 9 ) .

How can God have a God ? God's God ? God annoint God ? God have God ? this is serious .

malvisguy212:
listen, Mary given birth to Jesus without the agency of a man proved Jesus exist long before he was born, that why john say "the word become flesh and dwell among us" and in john 3:16 it indicate, the birth of Jesus is a gift to the world. So this mean Mary was only the recipient of that gift. She is not the source of that gift.

MARY ! , so mary gave birth to Jesus before the oceans came into existence ? Proverb 8:24

Emusan

"1 And
Again, in Micah 5:1 Septuagint rendered it as
thou, Bethleem, house of Ephratha, art few in number to
be [reckoned] among the thousands of Juda; [yet] out of
thee shall one come forth to me, to be a ruler of Israel;
and his goings forth were from the beginning, [even]
from eternity.
And an organization rendered it as from time indefinite!
even though the same Hebrew word was used for the
Father in Psalm 90:2.
Is Septuagint or that organization the correct one?

But Time indefinite was used both at psalm 90:2 and micah 5:2 , stop this lies . They render it the same way .

Meanwhile , its interesting that Micah 5:2 in the LXX says " whose going forth were from the beginning" , going forth refers to ORIGIN " ; the ONLY God dont have an origin .

So look at the context of Proverb 8:22-end and see
what the writer is saying, like I told one JWs the context
of that Proverb 8 will contradict some Christian Greek
scripture if being reading out of context because if you
read it down the Speaker didn't claim to be used for the
creation but just beside Him

Beside him AS A MASTER WORKER !

but Christian's Greek
Scripture says everything was created through Jesus.
Let me stop here first, but if you want more explanation
About Proverb 8 let me know.
I know the next thing you will do is to strike through my
post.

The LXX directly said jesus is created ! Proverb 8:22 , do you agree ?

Emusan
I can't just stop laughing the way you hold Septuagint
LXX whereas when we look at other Septuagint LXX
rendering in other verses about the Messiah your
argument will be forfeited.
For instance;
In Psalm 45:6-7 was rendered in Septuagint as
throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy
kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness. 7 Thou hast
loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God,
thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness
beyond thy fellows.
Whereas the author of Hebrew applied this verse to
Jesus Christ when the Father is addressing His Son in
Hebrew 1:8 and an organization rendered it as
God is
your throne! Which is one is the correct one, the
Septuagint or that organization?

I can see you are indeed a frustrated man , how does your post address the op , meanwhile regarding psalm 45:6,7 arent you aware that
The renowned trinitarian Bible scholar, B. F. Westcott, wrote:

" The LXX [Septuagint] admits of two renderings [at Ps. 45:6, 7] : [ho theos] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (`thy throne, O God, .... therefore, O God, thy God...') or it can be taken as the subject (or the
predicate) in the first case (`
God is Thy throne,' or `Thy
throne is God...'), and in apposition to [ho theos sou] in The second case (`Therefore God, even Thy God...') .... It is scarcely possible that [elohim] in the original can Be addressed to the King. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho theos] is a vocative in the LXX [Septuagint]. Thus on the whole it seems BEST to Adopt in the first clause the rendering: `
God is thy Throne' (or, `Thy throne is God'), that is, `Thy kingdom Is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.'" -The Epistle to the Hebrews, London, 1889, pp. 25, 26.

malvisguy212:
angels are spirit but the bible say "ALL things were created through Jesus:
Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created,
both in the heavens and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones
or dominions or rulers or authorities--
all things have been created through
Him and for Him.

In other word, both visible(human) and invincible (angels) were created through Him (Jesus) .

Jesus was present together with God from the beginning of the world,the verse was not talking about God or Jesus had a beginning, the verse was saying, as the world began to exist , Jesus was present there:
"And now, Father, glorify me in your
presence with the glory I had with
you before the world BEGAN." ( John
17:5)

No bible verse can contradict proverb 8:22,24
Kindly explain what it mean that Jesus Was Given Birth To ?

Scholar8200:
Remember the context!


The bone of contention here is 'possess' and I dont find it in Psalm 90. Besides, unlike Proverbs 8, Psalm 90 refers to non-living things hence it cannot be used in comparison here.

In fact, that a different word is translated brought forth in Psalm 90 and Proverbs 8 shows the intent of the hebrew to differentiate one from the other. While the word can be used to personify the act of creation, the fact of Only Begotten stays only with Jesus as both testaments affirm.

Another example of such obvious personification is Isaiah 59:4


Besides, 'chuwl' is purposely used in Proverbs 8 because the word expresses and confirms its subject removing any possibility of assuming personification; thankfully, the records in the NT confirms the fact that the process described is literal as regard the Subject.

Proverbs 8: 22-30
22The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he[b] prepared the heavens[/b], I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 when he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 when he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 then I was by him, as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Here things are set in their proper perspective, He that was brought forth is differentiated from the elements and mountains that were prepared, created, established,appointed, made etc. In fact He repeats 'brought forth twice in that passage to clear your doubts!

Continue to contradict yourself

Proverb 8:22 said wisdom is possessed in the beginning

Proverb 8:24 said wisdom is brought forth /given birth to .

1. Can you give birth to what you already possess ? Funny

2. What does it mean that Jesus was given birth to ?

Scholar8200:
I quoted Psalm 139 to establish the fact that 'possess' is used in inseparable connection with being 'brought forth'.

Forget the grammar ; do you agree with amplified "FORMED" ?

NO WAY! A different word is used! Do your research properly.

Formed (chuwl) the earth " psalm 90:2 , i was given birth (chuwl) ? The ball is in ur net .

A right thinking person also realises that God is not man and is not bound by the copulation-to-conception ordinance! Again reading our meaning to vs 22 while ignoring the context, vs 24 and other parallel passages is wrong.

I can only go as far as the Scriptures. Attempting to mentally fill in the gaps and condemn or accept is the recipe for erroneous teachings.

How was Jesus Given Birth To ? Proveb 8:24 Explain .

Focus on the OP ! And stop derailing pls .

Sto derailing the thread man .

malvisguy212:
Philippians tells us explicitly how Jesus is the eternal God who took on the form of a man:
Philippians 2:5-7
...Christ Jesus, who, although He
existed in the form of God, did not
regard equality with God a thing to be
grasped, but emptied Himself, taking
the form of a bond-servant, and
being made in the likeness of men.

The form of God is SPIRIT ( John 4:24), even angels are spirit .

The form of a servant refer to Human Flesh.

Simple things yet you dont understand

The prophecy in isaiah9:6 say He is mighty God who is eternal Father (i.e.,
eternal indicates that He is not created).

The verse said : " he will be Called ... " , which reveal he has not always been eternal father .
thats why you need to study proverb 8:22,24

John 1:1 indicates that Jesus is God, who
was present in the beginning(again,
Indicating that Jesus was not created).

God has no beginning (ps90:2

Scholar8200:
Your conclusion contradicts other portion of Scripture that call Him the Only Begotten.

NO TRUTH IN SCRIPTURE CAN BE ESTABLISHED INDEPENDENT OF OTHER PORTIONS AND ANY BELIEF THAT CONTRADICTS OTHER PORTIONS IN THEIR CONTEXT AND INTENT, IS ERRONEOUS

Besides, Proverbs 8:24 says:

In there being no depths, I was brought forth, In there being no fountains heavy with waters,
Youngs' Literal Translation.

It seems the highlighted is a conclusion you strongly (and wrongly) want to achieve and its

Imagine ! After you quote psalm 139 to prove that possess can mean FORMED (amplified) , anything formed is created .

apparent that you are determined to rewrite that Proverbs 8:24

Consider this:

mā·yim.
מָֽיִם׃
with water


niḵ·bad·dê-
נִכְבַּדֵּי־
abounding

ma‘·yā·nō·wṯ,
מַ֝עְיָנ֗וֹת
[there were] fountains

bə·’ên
בְּאֵ֥ין
When no

ḥō·w·lā·lə·tî;
חוֹלָ֑לְתִּי
I was brought forth

tə·hō·mō·wṯ
תְּהֹמ֥וֹת
[there were] depths

Bə·’ên- 24
בְּאֵין־ 24
When no

biblehub.com

It will be wrong and misleading to separate 'possess' from the 'bringing forth' process!

Besides I find the contradiction in your post quite indicative of bias:

"Appreciating possess in the light of proverb 8:24 , been GIVEN BIRTH to simply means Jesus is created"
If you agree that 8:24 means giving birth, how come your conclusion contradicts your premise?

My conclusion doesnt contradict , God give birth to the earth means God form/create it (psalm 90:2) the same hebrew word is used

A right thinking person know God is not a woman that he should give birth , that expression refer to creation ! that means the septuagint LXX rendering @ prov 8:22 is correct

Jesus was, is and will ever be the Only Begotten of the Father, according to the scriptures!!!

Man beget through se.xual intercourse leading to birth , tell me how he was begotten ?

johnw74:
It was God the Word who became flesh, He is the image of the Father

Okkkk , God the word , the Gods you serve are so many that you have to distinguish the one you are talking about . God the word became flesh , while the other God , God the Father didnt became flesh .

Polytheist .

God's flesh body died, yes.

Oh ! You are actually saying God died , remember that the word became FLEEEEESH ! And you said yes that flesh died .

His eternal Spirit of course never died.

Johnwconfusion ,wat do you mean by eternal spirit ? Holyspirit or the spirit/breath in Jesus NOSTRILS (Job 32:8 )

joz calls "God was manifest in the flesh", an absurdity

Gud!God was manifest in FLESH right ? Hmm u are claiming that God suck mary's bre.ast , God cam out through Mary's priv.ate part & Mary automatically become his mother ,or what do u call the woman thru whom u came to d world ?