₦airaland Forum

Serves him right. Next time he will cut his coat according to his size

Hmmmm....

It seems even among the christians, the actuality of freewill is controversial.....
Hmmm.... curious indeed......

Some christians believe in the presence of freewill, but when the chips are down and trouble arises, it becomes a part of god's plan.....
Do terrorists have freewill? Why should they? Doesn't god always have a plan? Can anything happen in heaven and on earth that is not in accordance to HIS will?......

Its God's plan up against freewill. One must stand and the other must bow but they cannot both be potentates over the events of the universe.....

OpenYourEyes1:
.

Too many wrong grammar, my friend.

I don't dwell on mistakes in foreign grammar anyway. My local language is more precious.

Sure mate. Keep dancing and/or soaking yourself in the rain with your logical fallacies .....
Toodle-o!!!

OpenYourEyes1:
Docrine of demons.

You can't even spell doctrine. Just stop, bro lol
The poo that has come out from your mouth in this thread alone is enough.....

OpenYourEyes1:
I do not think it is safe to trust an Atheist.
I was an Atheist... I know how their minds work.

Why, if i may ask?

IAmSabrina:
LMAO!!! Look at this woeful scam . ElidaxZiel, when did you start activating sharingan for nairalanders? Lolz. You try
Martinez39, LordReed, JujuSugar, CAPSLOCKED, HellVictorinho, Come and see market o. I'm too weak

No be small thing
Oju Oju ti ElidaxZiel
Yimu

Vic2Ree:
But then, this. I take issue with this because it is defining morality as that which promotes well-being. I define morality as something like that which a human should or should not do.

OK, I don’t disagree. But finish the sentence; that which a human should or should not do, because…..

I would not define well being as morality, therefore I would not agree that to say otherwise means "we are no longer talking about morality."

Then, pray tell sir, what is morality?

So it is fair to say that the atheistic view I've seen presented is that it ia not absolutely wrong to gas Jews, or it is not absolutely wrong to hate, and that it is not absolutely better to be a loving father than to gas Jews. I think this explanation is fair.

Hmmm..... evoking Nazis,.....
This is a good example, Vic2Ree, so let’s unpack this.....
When you say absolutely wrong after I’ve stated that I don’t believe that absolute is a coherent position, it makes it seem like you’re painting my position as one where there is room for the possibility of atrocity within my moral framework.......
So not absolutely, but objectively, I would categorically be against the gassing of anyone.....
And, it’s often said about non-believers that we can’t say that these atrocities are wrong because we have no justification, but what we can do is take action. When asked how I could justify my objection to Germans gassing Jews, I would say that it’s demonstrable, and storm the beaches at Normandy.

Ultimately, I don‘t think absolutely gets you further down the road. It has no foundation. Ask yourself this, how would I create a moral framework given the absence of a deity? When you start there, it might become clear.

Vic2Ree:
Understand that this is simply based on my observations. In my experience. Particularly here on nairaland, and on listening to Sam Harris and his followers. But it's ultimately anecdotal. That's why it's "by my estimation".

And i'm criticizing your "estimation." Sam Harris does not represent every atheist, nor do his followers.
Try this exercise;
a) Define Objective
b) Define Absolute
c) Having defined the terms from a & b, do you consider it a possibility that you are confusing both terms?

I would argue that secular objective morality is a moral framework based on the wellbeing of man. Within this framework, slavery is demonstrably wrong. If you argue that the wellbeing of man is not axiomatic, then we are no longer talking about morality.

Vic2Ree:
Not exactly. I think most atheists argue that objective morality exists independent of a god. And I think theists have overwhelmingly won that debate.

As for objective morality vs. moral nihilism, that's un-won territory in my book, but moral nihilism is sort of winning by inches.

But yes, if you accept the nihilism inherent in atheism, and if we're talking about whether or not objective morals actually exist, then you are correct that this is unfinished business between the two sides.

Pause, sir!
a) You can't assume that every atheist believes the same thing.
b) There's no reason to believe that most atheists argue for objective morality.

Vic2Ree:
Technically no. So great question. It would be that the theist has valid a positive case for objective morality while the atheist does not. Something like that.

But the debate is about whether objective morality does or does not exist .......
It's very biased of you to assume which is correct and base the winner around that ........

IAmSabrina:
Atheists don't necessarily believe in a infinite material universe. If we're talking about the results of the big bang, for instance, we know it's spatially finite.

we know it's spatially finite.

No, we don't ma.....

The observable universe (i.e. the bits light has reached us from since the big bang) is spatially finite, mostly because the speed of light is finite and the big bang happened as a horizon......

But cosmological data at the moment point towards a flat overall cosmology, which is simplest with a spatially infinite universe. Obviously nothing's really settled in that realm yet, but the thing that's most emphatically not settled is that the universe is spatially finite........

JujuSugar:
OP, can you explain, in relation to each of these points:
a/ Morality (objective moral standards and non-arbitrary value systems)

Vic2Ree:
There are no universally correct values on an atheistic worldview.

Hmmm.....
Sir, does this mean that theists have "won" the argument regarding morality because there are no universally correct values in an atheistic worldview?

OP, can you explain, in relation to each of these points:
a/ Morality (objective moral standards and non-arbitrary value systems)
b/ The limits of science, the axioms of the scientific method, the end of materialism/naturalism, etc.
c/ Evolution
d/ Determinism (no free will)
How they are related to the question of theism, and why you think each camp has 'won' on them?.....
For your other points, I can see a straightforward connection to the theistic question,.......
but for the ones I listed, the connection seems to consist merely of frequent association in popular philosophy and theology......
Do you think there is something deeper on each of these points? .......

Biafrawillcome:
1. since there is no ghost in this world why do people knock before entering a mortuary. If it's superstition please I want an atheist to record himself opening a mortuary door without knocking.

2. When an aldulterous man or woman gets stuck with their partner they say is penįs captivus. Please this is a video of this thing happening to married people in adultery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaCD..KjjUjQo

can u just show me a video of it happening to single people don't give me any write-up.


3. Can u explain this tree that refused to go down.
If it's science and s normal event show me a video of it happening else where not a cooked up write up
https://youtu.be/YnMqOXXss7..4

Plz add up your own

With all due respect sir, I've seen more convincing arguments and better efforts put forward by your fellow theist companions......
Your OP is ridiculous, uninformed, intentionally ignorant and above all, a cringefest to behold....
Your knowledge on theological philosophy and science is severely lacking.......

queenice7:
it amazes me the kinda people we av here in nairaland. I mean their thinking faculty is so poor and backward it baffles me... few times I av posted stuffs and seek for their advice's, but wot I get from u guys are mean, abusive, thoughtless, insensitive... like wtf, it make matters worst. do u guys know there's sth like depression?? u guys comments fuels it, insensitive most of de times.
the last straw that broke the camel's back was de last story I posted, few hours ago... almost non of the people that commented understood my story, ion know if dey read upside down even as I modified some parts several times and I tried to correct some people, yet you were so in a hurry to hurl abusive words @ me, u were so biased even when its obvious that its de guy I went out with that lacks good conduct, the guy that bulged me by calling me from time to time, asking me wen we'll see, nothing more...maybe coz am a girl in this part of the world... with my experience so far, I think this will be the last time am gona be posting anything here... and I'll advice that you don't av to use abusive words to make a point, you can still sound mature and yet make sense, moreover try to read and understand, and yes, respect the ladies and be equal in judgement...

This post had me in stitches .
My dear queenice7, what can i say?.....
This is the internet afterall..... hate it or love it.....

dreamwords:

This picture wants to make me go blind

As in . I can't look at it without cringing.....

CAPSLOCKED:

I WONDER WHAT IT'LL TAKE FOR CHRISTIANS TO REALIZE THAT PRAYERS ARE MERE WISHES THAT NOBODY BEYOND THE CLOUDS LISTEN TO.

Unfortunately sir, nothing ......
It has been hard wired into their brains since time in memorial that YHWH is responsible for everything ......
And if it is a bad thing, then He did it for a purpose .........

UyiIredia:
Dafuq?! What kind silly reasoning is this?

He is indeed clueless . I stopped bothering with him when he said ===>
"there is live evidence for his epistemology
Like..... SMDH. He doesn't even know the meaning of evidence & and he doesn't even know what he's saying ...

paxonel:
ok, i didnt noticed you were asking the question
ofcourse yes, a lot of christians have done that too

Since you christians claim to value truth more than anything, i want to believe you are saying the truth that you've read the bible front to back....

so how does this predate bible?

http://time.com/44631/noah-christians-flood-aronofsky/
There are other sub links in the post too. Look those up if you're interested......
If you need any more links of the Gilgamesh myth or other myths older than Noah's ark, let me know......

oga the op did not say that, okpe!!!

You said and I quote:
"Atheists, what are your proves or evidence that a spirit God do not exist?"
Stop shooting yourself in the foot. Are you still denying this?....

first, you said the op seem to think (that means you are not sure
Now, you are saying presumably
My guy, you have to be sure of what you saw in the op

Unlike you sir, i'm not confused ....
I just want to make sure that YOU know what your statement implies......

forget the assignment,
The op never disputed the existence of other deities

I was expecting this reply
You mean you just happen to somehow know without evidence that the religion you follow just happens to be the only one in the entire history of the world that is absolutely correct? .......
What an amazing stroke of luck! .......
It’s a shame that all the people who follow the various other faiths mentioned above all think exactly the same way as you! Kudos, paxonel!

You don’t seem to feel the need for evidence to support not believing in 99% of religions. We both agree on that......
Why do you think I suddenly need evidence to go just 1% further, namely the 1% that just happens to include only your own religion?........
Why does your religion require a different standard of epistemology to all the other religions you reject without a second thought, or even a first one?...........

Now that you did not come out with something reasonable can you take back all that laugh you posted previously?
No you cannot.

Thats why it good to present your argument deductively rather than inductively especially when you are not sure where to arive

[img]https://media./images/75491050af5236464061d077827e4bb9/tenor.gif[/img]
patapata la foju, kunna kunna la dete, oju afofotan ija ni da sile.
You're out of your depth in this topic sir
Here's a genuinely helpful tip for the future......
Believe whatever you want, but keep it to yourself. Don't try to challenge atheists, we've heard it all before and you're not going to make a dent .....
You'll be way happier just believing .........
Getting your arguments ripped to shreds isn't fun........
That kind of thing will make you doubt ........

paxonel:
ok, go ahead

Oh, i will as you shall soon see, paxonel

you brought the ball, its my turn to play and you are blowing whistle, what kinda ref are you?

you did not read the op, how will you see the evidence?

You did not read the op, all of a sudden my argument is poor

You are now starting to sound like a broken record as the 3 sentences above are saying the same thing .....
Sir, i knew this would be a labor of love and i'd have to spoonfeed you in this argument ......
Let's look @ your evidence, shall we?.....

How did theists come to the conclusion that a spirit God exist?
It's simple!
They saw it in their holy books and believe that he exist.

This is as malnourished an evidence than anyone can imagine......
If we believe anything we read to exist, I am wrong to read a Quran & believe in Allah instead of YHWH?........
If you think this qualifies as an evidence in any way, then I'm sorry to say you lack knowledge when it comes to theological philosophy.........

Jesus Christ about 2000 years ago predicted in one of his parables that christianity is going to be the largest religion on earth matthew 13:31-32

Now google today
Which religion is the largest religion on earth, no doubt it is christianity.

Can a mere man make a prediction 2000 years ago and we see the prediction happening today when we google it?
It takes only a spirit God to do that!!

Therefore God exist.

31 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, 32 which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
- Matthew 13: 31-32

---

What kind of vague-ass passage is this? .....
This passage says NOTHING about christianity eventually being the largest religion....
And this just proves that if you read the bible, Jesus only vaguely fulfils the prophecies. Even being generous and assuming everything in the New Testament happened as written.........
If the Bible really wanted to prove its accuracy, God should have told Moses to inscribe the medalists of the 2016 Olympic Games - not some pseudo-history that would be impossible to verify.......
Your prophecy is the kind that a few (ignorant) Christians like to pull from the debating bag......
Based on these "fulfilled prophecies" you are jumping to the claim that the Bible, as a whole, is the truth. This is the logical fallacy of overgeneralization. E.g some Christians think homosexuals are evil, therefore all Christians think homosexuals are evil).

Based on those prophecies, I am printing my own edition of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Here are my prophecies:
a) Tharr will be lightning that strikes homes
b) Tharr will be rockets that malfunction
c) Tharr will be ramen noodles thrown in the trash
All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster! his truth is omni-present!!!

paxonel: c/ Have you read your bible from cover from cover?[/b]lie, you did not.

Its a simple question. Answer yes or no.

i have never seen any one story that predate bible, or do you have any?
I am eagar to learn

Ever heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh? Let's begin with that

it doesnt matter!
It is your willingness to know new things that matter.

But if you are not willing to know there is absolutely nothing i can do.

I mean, whether you are christian or not it doesn't change anything. You are perculiar and good the way you are, and me that believes i am perculiar and good as well.

But one truth that will prevail, before you can convince a christian that there is no God you will first have to understand what the christian has understood that makes him believe that God exist for you to counter him and convince him properly. Otherwise, you are chasing a wild goose

You cant imagine how much this post made me laugh kikikiki......
Below is an excerpt from your OP.....

Atheists, what are your proves or evidence that a spirit God do not exist?

A sincere question

Can you see how you christians dribble yourselves thinking you're making an argument? .........
I've now returned you the favor by asking you to disprove the FSM and here you are soaking yourself in the storm you started by yourself .....
By your original post, you seem to think evidence is required not to believe in something,.....
so presumably you have taken the time to eliminate all the other gods that humankind has worshipped fervently over the millennia .......
What is your evidence that they don’t exist (not to mention the evidence that your particular deity-of-choice actually does exist)?.......
Meanwhile, let me give you another assignment....
Christianity: Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Seventh Day Adventism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism
Islam: Shia, Sunni, Wahhabism, Sufism, Ahmadiyya, Mahdavia,
Taoism
Confucianism
Jainism
Zoroastrianism
Mandaeism
Buddhism: Theravada, Mahayana, Vajrayana

The Assignment: Please kindly post the reasoning why these widely-followed religions listed above are wrong (ignore the one you belong to).......

paxonel:
everyone are is talking. Talk is meant for eveyone, you are talking i am talking so whats your point ??

My point is your arguments are poor and i'm here to show you why.......

no court has ever barred a christian in a secular world from going to church simply because he believes that God exist.

*Whistle!!!*
Offside! Leave that ball and come back into the discussion, sir!.....
Everyone is free to believe what he believes. You are answering another question....
So let me rephrase it for you: Where is your objective, dependable evidence which can be accepted worldwide, that your christian god exists?

paxonel:
put it this way, since you have refused to see the evidence i presented on this thread, why should you believe my claim?

You have presented no reasonable evidence. Hence this reversal of my initial question fails horribly.....

HellVictorinho:
Nice to meet you,juju or voodoo.
But can you explain your amusement here?

Only a third party will understand the amusement.....

Hermes019:
Seriously Hellvictorinho and Thothhermes,I no even understand wetin una dy talk

As in lol. Bro, I just sidon here dey observe the back and forth since ......

Deicide:
You neva jam

Oh....
Trust me ......

Deicide:
And it doesn't give you nightmares

Nope .....
Juju is a lot stronger than you give her credit for.....

paxonel:
bush man!
This is not how ad populum is applied.

Google it incase you have missed your general studies

ad populum simply means apeal to the populace,

What i posted is a data extracted from wikipaedia,
Do you even know what wikipaedia is?

Do you think wikipaedia will just apeal to the populace?
What populace?
Nigeria?

You must be an illiterate big joke, go and sleep jo

Fair enough, I will confess i was quick to comment and did not notice that your post was a reply to another moniker......
However, I've skimmed through this thread with utmost disgust at the poor quality of arguments you've employed.....
Hence my quick quoting of your moniker......
I have neither the time nor hopelessness to engage in e-fights at this hour, so i'll let your insulting remarks slide...for now.....
I assume you're looking to have a reasonable debate, unless maybe I'm wrong and you're the type who just wants to hear himself talk....
So I'm going to ask these questions, then tomorrow (or anytime) if you want to have an argument, we'll move on from here......
a/ Have you any evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law or in a science classroom in any secular university that the god of the Christians actually exists?
b/ Since I consider evidence is required before evaluating claims, why should I believe your claim to be a Christian?
c/ Have you read your bible from cover from cover?
d/ In conjuction with the previous question, what stories in the bible are almost identical to stories that predate the bible?
e/ I believe in the Flying Spaghetti monster. Now prove he doesn't exist
I'm a girl by the way

Deicide:
You don't watch scary films?

Am horror movie aficionado .....

paxonel:
from your assignment which religion is the largest?

Adherent estimates (wikipaedia)

Christianity 2.4 billion ( 33%)
Islam 1.8 billion ( 24.1%)
Secular(Agnostic/Atheist) 1.2 billion (16%)
Hinduism 1.15 billion ( 15%)

Argumentum Ad Populum.....
Educate yourself.........

Deicide:
Before or after.?

Before or after what?.......
If you mean after I became an atheist, i'd say yes......
I can't recall any nightmare incidents after I dropped out of religion......

Emmanystone:
Hmmm. I see you are indeed Hopeless. It is this frustration i wonder abt.

How can one live without anything to hope for? Oh, don't answer that. I understand.

Leave the guy alone nw

Deicide:
If you ever had one after being an Atheist how well did you handle it?

To be honest, I cant really remember when last I had a nightmare......
Must have been ages ago......