₦airaland Forum

Joshthefirst:
How does living within a culture and doing all this things you have mentioned give meaning and satisfaction to an existence that was accidental and is futile and will come to an end of nothingness? How will reading great books give you meaning when your life is accidental and will come to a purposeless end?

'Meet good people?' What is good and what is bad? I thought you were an atheist? Smh. There are so many things wrong with your post. This is one reason I say there are no real atheists, just paraders.

How does meeting good people give meaning and satisfaction to an accidental causeless existence that will end as a meaningless blink with no aftermath whatsoever? What is the point of playing a role when your life and the lives of all the communities you have bridged will end in ultimate nihility?

How do you know good and evil without God? Who makes up your good and evil? How do you know good is good and how will evil be punished? What is the point of living and civilization and being 'good' and human advancement, when death and nothingness is the final end of all things in your conscious and accidental existence?

How does research, discovery, diplomacy, art, music, sacrifice, compassion, feelings of love, or affectionate and caring relationships mean anything if it all ultimately comes to naught anyway?


What is the point of advancement in history when history itself is ultimately futile and will come to a similar meaningless end and fate?

How does culture give meaning to your life which is like smoke and can disappear at any time? Along with the lives of your family and 'loved ones' and children, along with the lives and advancement and knowledge of humanity as a whole? What's the point?


See, if you do not believe in God and his promise of reward and Immortality, death and futility is the destiny of your short and meaningless life.

But you haven't said how it affects LIVING. To Live and exist is separate from how we become to exist. The role of culture is to make LIVING possible. Babies for example fulfill LIVING quite adequately, being in each moment, deriving their joys with blissful ignorance.

italo:
You just jump into a discussion and comment without properly analyzing the comment I was replying to. Is this the same PastorAIO I know or has someone hacked PastorAIO's account?

Someone lied that it was Catholic majority countries that engaged in slavery...I pointed out that it was all the world. I never said slavery was okay. And I pointed out that Catholic majority countries is not equal to Catholic Church.

She also point said a crusader king killed 3000. And I asked what was bad in killing 3000 terrorists in those circumstances. What should King Richard have done with them?

The Crusade was a war...a just war. In war, people die. Enemies are captured. Captured enemies are sometimes killed if it is the only safe option.

Then again, I don't know how you missed where I said that the Crusader king is not equal to catholic church.

The Pope called a just crusade...it doesn't mean the actions of all the Christian soldiers were just.

Please don't make waste time explaining these simple things to you of all people.

You're smarter than this.

It is a wonder that the Catholic Church endorsed slavery rather than use its spiritual jurisdiction against the practice of slavery.

A further wonder that the execution of prisoners of war and refugees would constitute a just war!

Ordinarily i wouldn't condemn the Church on modern standards and luxuries but you seem to insist absolving the Church on such standards.

PastorAIO:
Menh, it seems as if you now use the world as your standard. So if the world does it then it is okay for you to do it. That is just playing into the hands of anyone that looks at the Catholic Church and says, This is just another human institution. 'Human, all too human'.

So if Army commits every atrocity in the book then it will be okay for Catholic church to do the same.

If all the world are doing something that makes it okay for Catholic church to do so.

Love the Nietzschean reference.

italo:
The popes meant it...that's why it's virtuous.

An apology for the mere sake of politeness is not a sincere one. A genuine apology is a self acknowledgement of one's error or misdeed. It's a high mark of maturity.

The Bill is unconstitutional if it limits free speech.

@italo

Isn't it hypocritical to apologize when you do not mean it. And isn't it worse to dress such hypocrisy up as a virtue?!

italo:
False! It was all the world. The African who sold their brothers and neighbours were not Catholic. The Arabian slave traders were not Catholic. The N Korean govt that still sends hundreds of thousands of its own citizens to labour camps is Atheistic, not Catholic. The US was never Catholic majority, the UK was not Catholic majority, France has had an anti-religious govt since the French Revolution almost 300 years ago.

Also, "Catholic-majority countries" is not equal to Catholic Church.

"Crusader King" is not equal to Catholic Church.

Besides, what's wrong in killing 3000 terrorists?

If Nigerian Army caught 3000 Boko Haram members in King Richards circumstances, what would you have them do?

To be continued...

The Church apparently has an impenetrable veil barring responsibility. All the servants and agents but the Church is responsible!

Ordinarily agents of the Church acting in contravention of its divine instructions ought to be punished. And there are hardly records to show that the Church reprimanded its servants for genocides committed in its name.

italo: Are you talking about the Crusade to fight back Muslim barbarians that were killing and raping inhabitants and pilgrims of/to the Holy Land? That was a just war. We need another Crusade against the Islamic State barbarians again

So you believe the Crusaders did not act outside the authority of the church?

Does your special karma follow evils of the heart or just evil deeds?

We sometimes do evil because of naivety and ignorance. Both are factory made failings of the human.

Joshthefirst:
Smh Kay.

Okay, does your life have any meaning? If so, based on which context?

I suspect you're being deliberately ambiguous just to dodge the important question I asked you earlier. This won't be the first time you're using dodging tactics.

Lemme rephrase then:

What context can you find meaning in life without God and Divine Justice and Immortality?

Through culture. Living within a culture without God and Immortality can be equally meaning. If I live my life as an aesthetic purpose. Read great books, meet good people, listening to music, playing the role of the wife, daughter and engineer gifted with building bridges between communities. And deriving satisfaction at one's usefulness and enjoyment.

Zenzu01:
The fact is that scientists, atheists, philosopher, etc don't have any logical reason to prove the non existence of God. They only conclude that He doesn't exist only because they can't see Him.

As I stated earlier, those that propounded the big bang theory stated clearly that what led to the bang and further cooling off is still unknown, isn't that evident enough that there is a Being that started the whole process somewhere?
Take note: I still make reference to the big bang theory because that's what we use as the base of our argument and I wouldn't want to divert from it for now..

Let's also take a look at the life of all these micro-organisms,, before the invention of instruments like lens, magnifier or microscope, the world never knew of the existence of wonderful creatures like the amoeba, parameseum, euglena viridis etc but then, they play important roles in the formation of soil, water bodies and Micro organisms are critical to nutrient recycling in
ecosystems, because they act as decomposers.
Though we don't see them with our naked eyes but yet their importance cannot be over-emphasised. So also it is with God, you need that powerful spiritual lens or magnifier to see Him (seeing Him here doesn't mean beholding Him per se but to acknowledge the Effect of His power. Mind you am talking out of [b]Personal[b/] experience.)..

Being more spiritual is a better way and also an easier way to understand the Godhead, if you don't believe in spirituality, then it will be a discussion of another day..

If you look closely to all I've written so far without any form of rigidity and bias mind, you will see that it is because human has not really made the genuine effort to knowing God, that's why we still don't understand the workings of the almighty..
Thanks

Do you think man is omniscient? If we were, we would be beyond errors and understand all truths. Don't you agree?

If you do agree. Then it is perfectly natural for us to come to understand the Universe gradually and at our own pace. It would be strange if we knew the beginning and end of the Universe immediately we were born. Rather we have to learn and learn in the most difficult manner.

Now for you to claim you know the beginning of the Universe is, an astonishing claim. You are hardly the cosmologist. How do you answer where your knowledge came from?

Mrs Anna should realize her husband isn't an automaton. She should confront her husband and tell him to keep to his vows.

[quote author=Joshthefirst

What meaning of any sort can you find in life without God and divine justice and immortality?

See, the hard wiring of your very existence is hinged on the presence of The immortal Judge, the creator. Whether you like it or not. And you will answer to him. You will stand before him and you will be required to speak.[/quote]As I said earlier Meaning can only be drawn in context. If you can agree to that, then God divine justice and immortality are not necessary.

Zenzu01

You have not so far demonstrated such logic. Can you identify a prior example of God's handiwork?

Whether witches and wizards exist, is actually impossible to know. But at least we know witches and wizards firmly exist in African peoples' minds.

So whenever a problem occurs, like a plane or car crash occurs, the African man has a readily available excuse in the witch and wizard.

Do you notice that witches and wizards absolve people from their responsibilities? People are like puppets before these witches.

Zenzu01:
I don't beg you to believe anything I say. But I want to tell you that any discussion of the Big Bang theory would be incomplete without asking the question, what about God? This is because cosmogony (the study of the origin of the universe) is an area where science and theology meet. Creation was a supernatural event. That is, it took place outside of the natural realm. This fact begs the question: is there anything else which exists outside of the natural realm? Specifically, is there a master Architect out there? We know that this universe had a beginning. Was God the "First Cause"?

Your theological addition to the Big Bang theory is at best speculative. There are a number of speculative scenarios that can account for the Singularity, no necessity forces us to concede to a God. Neither does your speculation satisfy us that God is the immediate cause for the Singularity. We can easily assume layers of causes preceding the Singularity

There are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:

* Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.

The Big Bang theory which we are talking about already claims the Universe has a beginning. Such beginning does not automatically mean it's a creation. To mix up a beginning to mean creation is a flaw in thought.

* Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the
molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.

My earlier observation answers this.

Kay17:
The common path taken to prove the existence of this singular being is identify this being as an intelligent designer and the Universe as his handiwork, otherwise there is no other foot print of this being.
Human experience exposes us to at least one intelligent designer that is us humans. And through our role as intelligent designers, we extrapolate God's role to be similar to ours. Don't you think so?

I would further say, to prove a foot print on a beach is human, you must have an idea of what a human foot looks like and how it imprints on sand. Since every footprint is not human. Similarly to prove God's footprint, we have to know what it looks like. Before you credit any creation or object to God, you have to show an indisputable prior example. Therefore an extrapolation of God's creativity from human creativity is important.

* Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In
fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?

Similar to what I have addressed above.

* Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe
in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?

* People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other
miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?..

If you are able to look into this question keenly and objectively, you will see for your self that God is an important factor in the formation of the life we all enjoy..
Thanks.

Philosophers hardly agree on one thing. And hardly do they agree on morality. But let's suspend the discussion on morality and revelation a bit later. We will come back to it.

Zenzu01:
The working of the Almighty (God) is evident in our daily activities, just that we as human being don't make enough efforts to hear the whispers from the handiwork of the Creator..
I will highlight few points to support my claim on the existence of a Supreme being (God).

* According to the standard theory (which is also the big bang theory), our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Nobody has been able to tell us calculatively how the prompted (what prompted) the bang.
They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.
The simple answer here is that all these happened through the effect of the power from God through forms of radiation enamating from Him(God)..

This is just one of the numerous proof to show the existence of God but I can't type all because it may become hard for you all to read.. But you may refer to any part of my writing for more explanation or scrutiny...
Thanks

You might believe I give a great deal of weight to the Big Bang theory, in fact I do. Yet your conclusion that the singularity whencefrom the Universe sprang out of, is God, is outside the boundaries of the theory.

I can only conclude your conclusion was speculative. At worst a dogma which you beg me to believe.

Joshthefirst:
What goals and purposes can transcend a physical cosmic accidental existence? Tell me? What hope do you have of the future? What is the purpose of your goals, and what meaning can you find in life without God and divine Justice and immortality?

If the Universe is going to be here for a billion years and compared to that, a man has a lifespan of a maximum of 100 years. Of what importance would a cosmic purpose have that an earthly purpose cannot fulfill?!

It is the necessary hypocrisy that comes with the religion package.

Zenzu01:
* There is an existence of a Supreme Being known as God but yet no religion is able to really explain the activities of God or who God is but they just believe in his existence only because they feel they have no other option.
The working of God is entirely different from the way people paint it to be, even religions have not helped

This existence you talk about, don't you think it ought to be substantiated? Otherwise it is as well a religious dogma. The common path taken to prove the existence of this singular being is identify this being as an intelligent designer and the Universe as his handiwork, otherwise there is no other foot print of this being.

Human experience exposes us to at least one intelligent designer that is us humans. And through our role as intelligent designers, we extrapolate God's role to be similar to ours. Don't you think so?

Joshthefirst:
Very funny seun.


Unfortunately without God all you have is meaninglessness. Your very existence and the existence of this forum is idi.otic and without purpose. We're all a cosmic accident. It is meaningless and idiot.ic to try to make a better life. It is meaningless and idiot.tic to hope for human advancement. It is meaningless and idiot.tic to teach your children and see them grow. Because existence itself is meaningless.


Here's one proof of God's existence: The fact that life itself is wired to survive and have purpose is proof.

If you think it isn't, then there's no need to react to this post, or to even be on nairaland. The best thing to do is to shut down nairaland and hang yourself.

Even self gratification is meaningless.

Meaning can only be found within a context. In the cosmic scale of things, meaning might be hard to grapple with but in our day to day lives, we can identify goals and purposes that get us moving.

joseph1832:
Its funny how in a country like Somalia where you have majority moslems, war, poverty and strife is the order of the day.

It was devastated by tribal conflicts. Not principally by Islam

I believe that Jesus's followers are some of the most persistent and resilient fellows on earth. The sudden death of their leader didn't deter them from reinterpreting Jesus's tragedy as a victory over Rome. The death of Jesus ought to be ignominious since an execution is hardly the way a royal goes.

Jesus dying for our sins is hardly consistent with the free will mantra that we are masters of our fate. It implies that man can not save himself through his free will which is the basis of morality. And a contradiction results.

People have to believe in Karma because a world without justice is unbearable. So Karma is some kind of faith. There is hardly proof, yet people don't care but believe.

Joavid:
what's the Buddhist concept?

Each life we live forms a part of an eternal cycle of lives. Our acts and desires inflict the sufferings of the next life. And neither do the good we do make the next life easier. So Karma is a self defeating process/cycle which we must break to be free.

Joavid:
“Karma comes after everyone eventually. You can't get away with screwing people over your whole life, I don't care who you are. What goes around comes around. That's how it works. Sooner or later the universe will serve you the revenge that you deserve.” - Jessica Brody
.

For some reason this karma talk always
sound unreal cause i keep asking:
"Why do bad things happen to Good People?"

The political elite class in Naija that has ruined lives & killed a lot of people during the military era are still lounging. Some will live their natural life span, comfy till death without any reppercussion.

So many people have gotten away with doing terrible things.
.
.
Sometimes, I think Life is more suited to Darwins postilation :
"You adapt or die" survival of the fittest.

Personally, i think Karma is one of those
Human talk that has no bearing on real life
scenario's... I rate it alongside talk like "Money cant buy you happiness".

P.S I did not post this in the religion section because as a Christian, similar to karma, you reap what you sow and there's a high possibility you won't reap it on earth.

I would prefer people share real life experiences.

Karma as espoused here is not the Buddhist's concept, which is much deeper than what is argued here.

iambabaG:
I don’t get it , why is it that when men sleep around, they’re studs , yet when women sleep around, they’re sluts ? Why can’t women have their fun too?
Madam, @ 35 u still don't get it..?? Not a surprise dey all leave u. And dey will continue to do so. After welcoming more than 35 men down there, it must have lost it's grip and firmness.. Can u wear a slacked trousers? The same way it will fall off is d same way he will sink in; feeling absolutely nothing!!
Now the truth is dat you can't get your dream guy again.. Prepare 2 be a 4th wife 2 an old man dat doesn't know the difference

How slack is your mother's va..gina after having sex with your father for years and years AND giving birth to you?!

What is the underlying cause for the need for human beings to worship Gods? Regardless of where you go, you'd find humans bowing before Gods and explaining his existence as a metaphysical phenomenon.

Supposing this was a psychological disposition. That humans naturally communicate with Nature anthropomorphically. So rather than search for God outside, we should search for him inside ourselves.

Abrahamic faithfuls itch badly over naturalistic explanations for the Universe and Life.

Proving gaps and inconsistencies in naturalistic explanations is not enough to imply God's Hand.

Maximus85:
Modern marriages don't last because the two parties have their different meanings to what love it. They tend to compare others to their partners. They haven't grown together in love. Therefore, they hardly agree.

But let's consider the oooooold school marriage process. Bode and Bose doesn't know each other. Baba and Mama Bode goes out in search of a good woman for Bode. They finds Bose after rigorous research.

Bode might never have seen Bose before. They prolly would meet close to the wedding day or even on the wedding day. This will be sounding like poo in some people's hears. But history says that divorce is a very hard thing to happen back then. Marriage lasts.

Bode and Bose naturally wouldn't love each other just like that. But they both respects the opinion and decisions of their parents. Each knows their responsibilities and carry them out. Love is not the primary basis for this strong union but being responsible. Bode and Bose will start to cultivate love together, love will mean the something to both of them. They are cemented. They become one soul.
Many will say this is barbaric but it works. Cos they follow the first process of marriage. God brought Eve to Adam.

Today the story is different and the next thing you hear is divorce.

OP, no one will force you to love this dude. But you have a golden chance to own a relationship / marriage that will last forever. Love isn't the major basis for marriage. Think about it.

Is he responsible, patience, self sacrificing, honest, loyal, forgiving, trustworthy, decent, kind, enduring? If he has all these and you don't love him..... Then I'm sorry, you don't know what you want.
See 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Such marriages had simplistic assumptions. A good wife was a woman who could wash, clean and cook. Basically a house maid with matrimonial functions of bearing as many children as possible. And the husband can and did marry many women. Within this polygamous setting, there was this gratitude sometimes mistaken for love for the man who was Lord over them.

But women of today see themselves more differently.

efficiencie:
you are the definition of WICKEDNESS...you agreed to date him at the start and you did not realize that you did not love him then. Now after a while it dawns on you that you did not love him. I wonder what love means nowadays! So your love is variable, evolutionary and unstable. Your love changes with times and season. It is ladies like you that encourage the bad tendencies in men, "to hit and run"!

My advice, the same way you agreed to date him, you should also let him know his fate. The same way you boldly accepted his offer, boldly tell him to his face that you do not need him. It is better you hurt him a little now that his bond with you is relatively weak that cheat of him eventually when his bond with you is strongest and you end up making a monster out of a good guy! A monster that many ladies like you come here to complain about...

Narratives can be entrapping especially with what we call love. The man following the narrative, chases the girl and uses his "swag" and masculine charm, gifts and persistence to seduce the girl. The girl in response, falls in love. This narrative is found in all medium of culture -- movies, romance magazines and even moonlight tales

But this narrative is not always in touch with reality. The guy's pains will be from a sense of inadequacy. The girl also feels guilty for vying off her role in the narrative.

I feel sympathy for both.

The problem is we explain our Universe through spiritual terms. Ritualists believe wealth is derived from blood and pain rather than hardwork and intelligence.

Besides where was the Muslim God when this was happening?